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 Another Pit attack (Page 1)
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| Author | Topic: Another Pit attack |
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SaDDened pitt owNer unregistered |
posted 02-11-2003 04:31 AM
SEEMS LIKE THERE HAS BEEN ANOTHER ATTACK BY PITBULES IN CHICAGO ON JANUARY 6, 2003 ON 2 SCHOOL KIDS. FROM THE NEWSPAPER IT SAYS THESE DOGS ROAM THE NEIGHBORHOOD ALL HOW CAN ANYTHING HELP IF THESE DOGS DONT STOP ATTACKING AND SOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOON!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! IP: Logged |
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PITBULL_PRINCESS1979 Member  Posts: 414 |
posted 02-11-2003 10:17 AM
The problem is not with the dogs it is with the owners who let these dogs run free.I bet the artical did not say if the kid prevoked the dogs are not.Of course the kids would tell the truth any way.. IP: Logged |
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shmoopie Member Posts: 361 |
posted 02-17-2003 01:22 PM
Is it that the kids wouldn't tell the turth or that they simply do not have a clue what provokes a dog to attack?....like the majority of the public. Owners need to start being fined for irrisponsible ownership of this or any breed. IP: Logged |
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PITBULL_PRINCESS1979 Member Posts: 414 |
posted 02-17-2003 02:28 PM
I will have to agrre with you on that.I also think that parentd should teach their kids how to act around any dog. IP: Logged |
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shmoopie Member Posts: 361 |
posted 02-17-2003 05:43 PM
100% aggree with you Pit Princess. However, people don't realize how important it is and they believe it has to do with breed and not ownership/socialization/training. This is what needs to be changed. The public needs to start learning what makes a dog attack, not the mumbo jumbo that hits everyone smack dab in the heart and gives the feeling of rage and the need to lash out at anything that resembles the colour or shape of the dog that did the attacking. I believe everything and anything that is born into this world is born innocent. It is man who made it evil! That's what I believe and I'm sticking to it IP: Logged |
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Russ unregistered |
posted 02-17-2003 08:43 PM
The general public needs to be informed that puppies don't automatically turn into Lassies or a perfectly trained companion dog. They require tons of time, patience, love and knowledge. IMO if everyone knew this was the kind of commitment they were getting into 80% of the people would decide to NOT get a dog. Russ IP: Logged |
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shmoopie Member Posts: 361 |
posted 02-18-2003 01:08 PM
Russ, I agree with you too. I feel strongly that if people learned about what they were getting into and how much time and dedication a dog requires most would not go through with it. IP: Logged |
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PITBULL_PRINCESS1979 Member Posts: 414 |
posted 02-18-2003 01:15 PM
Russ,I agree with you on that.You and shmoopie have great answers....I always look forward to seeing what you two post... IP: Logged |
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pittypat Member Posts: 11 |
posted 02-18-2003 01:52 PM
The problem is that the kind of people who own human aggressive pit bulls are NOT the kind of people who want to make them into good pets. Since pit bulls are not naturally aggressive to people, they must have made, or trained, this way. IMO, anyone who has a dog like this and allows it run free and attack people should get a lengthy jail term, and be banned from ever owning a pet again. IP: Logged |
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PITBULL_PRINCESS1979 Member Posts: 414 |
posted 02-18-2003 02:34 PM
I agree with you pittpat. IP: Logged |
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shmoopie Member Posts: 361 |
posted 02-18-2003 06:03 PM
Pitty Pat...you have hit the spot! That is the exact problem. The Pit Bulls that are human aggressive have been made that way by people that want the dog to be defensive and it is these same people who are careless and let the dog free to cause havoc. Pit Princess...thanx for that comment, makes me feel like what I'm saying has had some effect....Russ does write very well and you can tell he's got a ton of patience. Thankx IP: Logged |
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PITBULL_PRINCESS1979 Member Posts: 414 |
posted 02-18-2003 06:09 PM
Shmoopie, You are very welcome.I am always happy to hear what other pit owners have to say.By listening to everyone I learn new things every day.I just wished we could get more people to listen.Then we would not have the problems that we have.I try to respect everyones opinion,because if we do not listen we do not learn. IP: Logged |
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goob unregistered |
posted 02-20-2003 06:00 PM
There ARE pit bulls out there that have less than ideal temperments though... whether it's due to poor breeding or just luck (or lack of luck  ). These dogs can be managed, and sometimes their behavior gets better with training/confidence building/desensitization, but they're still not as stable as a dog that has a naturally stable temperment. An example of this would be the rescue dog who has been beaten, abused, starved, but still wags it's tail when a person so much as looks at it and loves everyone vs. the well loved, well cared for family dog who is overly defensive and shy, maybe even a fear biter... it's not ALL about how they've been raised, if it was, you'd be able to "train out" dog aggression. Granted, I think there are less unstable pit bulls than there are unstable dogs of many other breeds, but they still can "happen". IP: Logged |
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shmoopie Member Posts: 361 |
posted 02-20-2003 06:21 PM
You have made a point, but not a very good one! Every animal is different and will respond differently to a situation. Every person is different and will respond differently to a situation. 1. Senario Some people get into a car accident and aren't affected at all mentally even though the accident left them badly bruised or whatever. Another person could get into the same car accident and be affected completley differently never willing to step foot inside another car again. Same for dogssssssss. Each dog will respond to a situation based on how the dog naturally is. Pit Bulls were NEVER NEVER NEVER NEVER NEVER NEVER EVER EVER EVER breed to be a man killer......to be a dog fighter yes....but lets remember who made the dog this way.....US DUMB ASS HUMANS....who's to blame? the dog?.....NO....that would be the DUMB ASS HUMANS. Get it? IP: Logged |
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PITBULL_PRINCESS1979 Member Posts: 414 |
posted 02-20-2003 06:46 PM
To be honest we have all made good points.All dogs have ther fault,but most of their fault come from us humans. I am not trying to be a jerk but pitbull were origenal breed to be game dogs.What I mean by that is they were bred to hunt wild boar,bulls,ect. I agree with shmoopie..Pitbulls were never never ever bred to be human aggressive. IP: Logged |
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goob unregistered |
posted 02-20-2003 07:13 PM
I know the breeds' history, and how manbiters were supposed to be culled... that doesn't mean that all were though, does it? There were a few dogs that were human aggressive, but yet were fantastic in the pit, and were bred. MOST human aggressive pit bulls were culled, but that doesn't mean that a few weren't excused because of their other "great" qualities, nor that a few didn't slip through the cracks and pass on their genes. That's not really the issue at hand though, as such dogs are few and far between. It's wrong to say that pit bulls were NEVER bred to be human aggressive... it's happening right now. Not with responsible pit bull breeders, but with the BYBs who think pit bulls are supposed to be human aggressive and specifically look for those traits. Pit bulls as a breed are still stable dogs, but there ARE unstable pit bulls out there. They are that way by nature, and no amount of training, love, or work will "fix" them. You can look to the past all you want, and say that human aggressive dogs were never allowed, but that won't help you (or your dog) right now, when some people are actually seeking out human aggressive dogs to breed. IP: Logged |
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Russ unregistered |
posted 02-20-2003 11:00 PM
Hi Goob, I agree with what you have just said. They do specifically look for human aggressive dogs and breed them. Gangsters, neighbourhood bullys, Criminals. I don't agree about people training these dogs for attack protection work because it promotes aggressive to human breeding. It is most likely also true in most cases that a dog fighting owner would never cull a game dog, even if it was human aggressive.
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PITBULL_PRINCESS1979 Member Posts: 414 |
posted 02-21-2003 09:11 AM
I'm sorry,but I have to disagree with you.I don't believe that any dog NO MATTER WHAT BREED it is are born human aggressive.I do realize that their are human aggressive pitbulls today,but it is not the dogs fault,it is ours(by ours I mean humans).Goob,I believe with the right person any dog can be handled properly.I take on this kind of thing every day.I am expecting to receive an abused pitbull today.He was taken from a local drug dealers house.He was used as a fighter and to guard this a**holes drugs.It is my job to make him the best dog he can be,and I will. I have not met this dog yet.I heard he is very aggressive to anything.With time I will turn him unto a well behaved dog. I love all pitbulls and believe they all can be saved.I know alot of you here on this forum do not believe this,but I am not willing to give up so easy. Like I said in an earlyer post,I am willing to give my life up to save these dogs.I don't believe in putting them to death unless they are very sick and there is not any other choice. We made these dogs what they are.It is time to take responsiblity for them.No matter the cost. I am sorry if my opinion upsets anyone,but this is how I feel. IP: Logged |
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shmoopie Member Posts: 361 |
posted 02-21-2003 01:49 PM
Goob, So if the BYB are creating human aggressive dogs...then we should blame the dogs....what kinda logic is that? Punish the people who create this problem, not the dog as they are who we make them. IP: Logged |
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pittypat Member Posts: 11 |
posted 02-21-2003 02:41 PM
I must disagree with you PitbullPrincess - pit bulls were not originally bred to hunt, but to fight other dogs in the pit. And Goob is right, people are breeding dogs with human aggression right now, bred to have no inhibitions about biting humans. The "dogmen" of the past, despicable as they were, would never have allowed a human aggressive dog to live. They called them "maneaters" and did away with them immediately. These dogs had to be handled before and during a fight, and had to be medically treated after, without anesthetic of any kind. A dog who would bite would not be allowed to live, for obvious reason. The problem now is that gangsters, druggies and various other scum types are encouraging human aggression in these dogs, which coupled with their gameness, makes them very dangerous indeed. This is a fairly new phenomenon, as prior to the 80's no one heard of pit bull attacks on humans. Any pit bull who will growl at, threaten, or bite a human is very unstable and not to be trusted. Pit bulls attacks can be directly linked to human error, stupidity, cruelty, BYBing,and/ or deliberate encouragement, as this kind of aggression is NOT in the nature of these dogs. [This message has been edited by pittypat (edited 02-21-2003).] IP: Logged |
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shmoopie Member Posts: 361 |
posted 02-21-2003 03:10 PM
Beautifully said PittyPat; however, with all my reading I found that the original use of the Pit Bull was for hunting Bull's....do you have info that states pits were used strictly for fighting other dogs? I thought they were breed to fight dogs after they were created to hunt Bull's...am I wrong? IP: Logged |
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goob unregistered |
posted 02-21-2003 03:17 PM
[quote="shmoopie"]So if the BYB are creating human aggressive dogs...then we should blame the dogs....what kinda logic is that?[/quote] If you could point out where I said that, I'd gladly answer your question... maybe I missed it. IP: Logged |
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PITBULL_PRINCESS1979 Member Posts: 414 |
posted 02-21-2003 04:09 PM
Pittypat, You are wrong about pitbulls being origanlly bred to fight.Maybe you need to do alittle more research on the breed.They were bred for hunting.After they caught the bull or what ever,the dogs would help their owner walk it to the slaughter house.The owners would let the dogs bite on the bull.In those days they thought it would tenderize the meat.That was outlawed,that is when they started breeding them to fight,but not dogs.The pit started with rats.They would put the dog in the pit and let a bunch of rats loose.The dog that could catch the most rat in a certin amount of time is the winner.That was outlawed was when they were bred to fight.So,before you tell me I am wrong you need to do more reading on the breed. IP: Logged |
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shmoopie Member Posts: 361 |
posted 02-21-2003 04:40 PM
Goob, I am sorry, I mis understood what you were trying to say. The issue you are speaking of has a term...."spiratic Rage Syndrom" which is a valuable reason for any animal to be aggressive. SRS is found more and more in breeds that are being over bred.....the pit bull has become very popular and being over bred...more and more of these cases come to light every day. This is starting to show up in the Golden Retreiver as this has become a very popular breed and BYB are screwing up this breed as well, but does that mean one day they will ban the precious Golden because of the idiots who don't know hoe to breed a healthy dog? OR can people like us step forward to educate and help get stricter laws to protect our defensless animals. IP: Logged |
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goob unregistered |
posted 02-21-2003 04:46 PM
The most widely accepted history of the pit bull is that they were originally an "all around farm dog", and used to catch and hold bulls while the farmers did what they needed too. Their aptitude for this was then put into use in bull/bear baiting, and when that was outlawed, the fighting pit. That doesn't mean that it's the only account of the pit's history... there are some who think they've always been fighters, some who believe they were ratters, guards, or hunters. There's even debate as to whether they were all bull and terrier crosses, or if some were the original "bulldog". As far as I know, no one so far has been able to actually prove (without a doubt) or disprove any of those theories, though some seem more likely to be accurate than others. IP: Logged |
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goob unregistered |
posted 02-21-2003 05:10 PM
I'm not referring to dogs with illnesses that make them have temperment problems, but rather to dogs that are born with less than desireable temperments. Like in a litter, you may have a pup who is really shy, doesn't want to be held, and just cowers in a corner the entire time, away from the other dogs and people. This dog may end up in a loving, caring home, who socialized him, trained him, and did everything right. Yet he could still end up being fear aggressive, simply because he was born that way. I'm no expert on genetics, so I don't know exactly how such traits are inherited, but it can and DOES happen. And with people breeding specifically for overly defensive dogs (most dogs that act "aggressively" are trying to scare you away because they're afraid of you, they're defending themselves. So when people are intentionally breeding dogs that are "aggressive", they're selecting for dogs that actually lack in confidence, and can stand very little stress before they become defensive and "aggressive"), it's likely that we'll see more and more "aggressive" pit bulls. The dogs I am talking about are not fine one minute, then aggressive the next, as dogs affected by rage syndrome are. They are just too defensive, and feel threatened by "little things" that a stable dog wouldn't be bothered by (hope that made a little sense). Dogs like this occur in every breed, though some more than others. It's NOT the dogs' fault, but the irresponsible breeders who first bred two dogs without knowing the dogs' and their ancestors' temperments, then allowed unstable dogs to get into homes where they can cause problems or hurt someone. It's also the owners' fault, because they have allowed the dog to be in such a position where it felt it needed to bite. IP: Logged |
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shmoopie Member Posts: 361 |
posted 02-21-2003 05:20 PM
Goob, Fear aggression is learned, a dog can not be born fear aggressive. It might be a more submissive dog and if the handler does not realize this create a fearful dog because of the way the handler treated the dog. I don't quite understand what your point is? Most dogs that are aggressive are done away with because we do not have enouph people in the world like Pit Princess who understand that a dog has a behavioral problem for a reason. [This message has been edited by shmoopie (edited 02-21-2003).] IP: Logged |
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PITBULL_PRINCESS1979 Member Posts: 414 |
posted 02-21-2003 06:01 PM
tHANK YOU FOR THE WONDERFUL COMPLAMENT.I am very proud of these dogs and any thing I can do to help them.There is always a reason why a dog is aggressive.It is our job to find out what the problem is and how to fix it.Every problem has a solution.It may take a day or it may take a years or even longer to find out what the answer is.It is our job to to that.We owe them that much and more..We created them now we fix them...That is the bottom line... IP: Logged |
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goob unregistered |
posted 02-21-2003 06:12 PM
Fear aggression is not learned... it's a natural reaction dogs display when they feel they are forced to defend themselves. Barking, raising hackles, growling, biting... all to scare off the threat that they percieve. When a dog is considered "fear aggressive", it uses these defensive displays over even "small things", right? Like a child coming up to pet them, or a person (invited) walking into their house or yard... things that most dogs don't get defensive over. The reason these "fear aggressive" dogs act aggressively over these things is because they are overly defensive. All dogs have an inborn level of "threat" that they will tolerate before becoming defensive, some will tolerate more than others. For those that will not tolerate much of a threat (overly defensive dogs), you can "cover up" their lack of tolerance by desensitizing them to certain things that they view as a threat, and work with them to gain confidence, but the lack of tolerance will still be there. If such a dog is "threatened" (and remember, even "little things" can be a threat in their mind) in a situation that it is unfamiliar to it, they will slip back into the defensive (fear aggressive) mode. You can never get rid of the 'extra" defensiveness, and in most cases, you can't even "cover it up" completely. Dogs with such issues can be managed, and can be great dogs, if given the proper management, but they are still not as stable as the dog who has a naturally higher level of tolerance to threats. IP: Logged |
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PITBULL_PRINCESS1979 Member Posts: 414 |
posted 02-21-2003 06:18 PM
Goob, I have a question for you.When you were born,were you born aggressive or did some one teach you how to protect your self? [This message has been edited by PITBULL_PRINCESS1979 (edited 02-21-2003).] IP: Logged |
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goob unregistered |
posted 02-21-2003 06:20 PM
Also, most dogs that are aggressive, and pass through rescue are euthanized because: 1. The rescues don't have the resources to deal with them... they require extra time, money, and work to get them over their problems. Why should rescues spend 6 months trying to fix one dog who has severe behavioral/temperment issues, thus tying up space that several other dogs could be in during that time? Is it really helping the breed (or those other dogs) to do that? 2. The liability is too great. If a rescue adopts out a dog that has shown any aggression whatsoever, and the dog bites someone, they will be sued, and unless another shelter can take on the remaining animals, they will all be euthanized as well. IP: Logged |
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shmoopie Member Posts: 361 |
posted 02-21-2003 06:59 PM
Goob, Either which way it is something we have done to create that "fear". A dog is not born fearful. Have you ever met one that was born fearful? I certainly haven't. I have seen puppies be born that were naturally more submissive than the other puppies in the litter. Any puppy that is born fearful of everything has some sort of medical condition and should be euthanized so it does not have to suffer. I don't know where you are getting your info from but if you read about behavior...this stuff you are talking about has NEVER come up. IP: Logged |
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pittypat Member Posts: 11 |
posted 02-21-2003 07:26 PM
There was a type of bulldog originally bred to bait bulls, yes. And it was probably very similiar to our pit bulls. However, the pit bull we know today came later, after the "sport" of bull baiting was outlawed. Due to the agility and gameness of this new found breed many began to also fight dogs with each other. Soon dog on dog fighting and ratting became so popular that practically all Inns and Pubs were equipped with a fighting pit. As colonization of America and Canada began these people also brought their dogs. These dogs soon became known by the name of "Pitbull Terriers" So strictly speaking, the modern day pit bull was indeed bred from bulldogs and terriers to fight. OF course, exact data is not available, due to the shady nature of the breeding and matching. That they were good at many other tasks increased the popularity. Also, shyness and fearfulness CAN be genetic. A dog can be born that way, and it can happen in any breed. Some dogs who were never abused in any way can be fear aggressive - it is a defect. [This message has been edited by pittypat (edited 02-21-2003).] IP: Logged |
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dana unregistered |
posted 02-23-2003 04:34 PM
Anyone who has dealt with dogs and bred a few litters of any breed would know that fearfulness and tendancy to bite has a genetic basis. Dogs who inherit this sort of personality easily become fear biters, while dogs with a normal pit bull personalities won't. An example of a dog with a hair trigger personality would be one like a doberman I once owned--this dog would respond to any threatening stranger with snarling and bared teeth, making her a natural personal protection/guard dog, but one which I had to be very careful with in public. Most well-bred pit bulls lack the sort of defensive personalities that would make them natural protection or guard dogs. Some can be trained to bite people, but these dogs bite in play, basically. It still can be very dangerous, of course, and sensible people don't train their pit bulls to be human aggressive. I wonder how many of the instances of pit bulls biting children stem from the dog being encouraged to bite in play and then getting carried away? IP: Logged |
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PITBULL_PRINCESS1979 Member Posts: 414 |
posted 02-23-2003 05:33 PM
I am sorry if this comment makes anyone mad..But its like this.No dog is born aggressive.Pitbulls were not bred to fight in pit..They were used for bull bait.That is what pitbulls were made for.Not a bulldog like a pitbull,but THE PITBULL.Before you people come in here and act like you know everything you need to read more than one or two books.I have been doing resaerch for years apond years on pitbulls,were they come from ,exactly what breeds were bred to get the pitbull.Alot of you know some thing,but there are quite a few in here that think they know and really don't.i am not going to say anyones name,but you know who you are.You can be mad at this post.Ireally don't care,but if you are going to get into a convorsation you atleast need to know what you are even talking about. IP: Logged |
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goob unregistered |
posted 02-23-2003 09:47 PM
No breed is naturally aggressive? How about Filas? If you talk to any breeder of "working" filas (not just the BYB who's trying to make big bucks peddling rare breeds), they'll tell you that many dogs of that breed have a NATURAL DISLIKE of strangers... and WILL attack one if left to their own devices. It's considered an acceptable temperment for dogs of that breed, and such behavior develops as they mature, whether they have been socialized, chained in the backyard, extensively trained, or whatever. It is determined by GENETICS. IP: Logged |
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PITBULL_PRINCESS1979 Member Posts: 414 |
posted 02-24-2003 09:07 AM
Goob, I do not know about every breed.The only breed I know almost every thing about is the Pitbull.No matter what you or anyone else says,there is NO Dog born mean.Their mother in the first 6 to 8 weeks of their lives teaches them how to servive. I have never in all my years seen a pitbull That was born mean.I have seen how mean people have made them,but never one born that way. IP: Logged |
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pittypat Member Posts: 11 |
posted 02-24-2003 12:15 PM
Princess, you keep saying "mean" and "born mean". I don't really know what that means, but that is not what people are talking about. We are talking about a genetic predisposition to shyness. Naturally, shyness and fear may make a dog fear aggressive, since it feels the need to defend itself. You may have never seen a genetically shy dog, but that does not mean they don't exist. Do you see the difference? Instead of getting defensive and insulting people, maybe you should listen and try and understand what is being said. IP: Logged |
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PITBULL_PRINCESS1979 Member Posts: 414 |
posted 02-24-2003 01:36 PM
What I ment by being "mean" is spazzing out and bitting someone.I have handled my share of shy dogs,but with proper trainning these dog most of the time make the best dogs. I do listen to what everyone is saying,and yes I will get defensive,and yes I will speak my mind.I did not bash anyone..Maybe you need to read what I wrote more carefully.I simply said..you need to check you facts before you speak.That is all...If you do not like what I write..I am sorry..I guess,just don't read my posts. IP: Logged |
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shmoopie Member Posts: 361 |
posted 02-24-2003 02:21 PM
This topic is getting off-topic. This is a Pit Bull forum.... Also, I don't think Pit Princess is being rude, just informative! Don't take things said here too personally...sometimes things don't get put down the way we mean to say them. [This message has been edited by shmoopie (edited 02-24-2003).] [This message has been edited by Auspetian (edited 02-24-2003).] IP: Logged |
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Doc Helladay unregistered |
posted 02-25-2003 04:37 AM
Number 1 Princess knows what she is talking about, for the others all I have seen you do is either talk over her posts or stomp on them, whoever made the comment about her getting rude or whatever the comment was I have not seen that to be true whatsover. Only reason I can see that you find what she has to say is that you think you know more than her....She stands correct completely correct about the breed, and what she knows about them. This type of knowledge comes with yrs of experience that princess has. To see you guys do this is just like people at shows that think their dog is better than the others..well that is all I wanted to say.. BTW princess I can clearly see that any help you will need in regards to this breed obviously will not come from help from people out of the USA...Im on the west coast...and I will help you with any info you might need. It appears others do not need help and I have not seen in any of their posts what they are doing to help save the breed other than trying to figure out geesh when they take their first breath they might bite...They need to get with the program.! Doc~ 2003 IP: Logged |
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PITBULL_PRINCESS1979 Member Posts: 414 |
posted 02-25-2003 09:18 AM
Shmoopie and Doc, I just wanted to say thank you for actually reading my post.You are good people and I have alot of respect for the both of you(as do I also for Russ and a few others here).The Pitbull breed needs more people to help and care about them like you do.I can always use the help on getting any good hype about pitbull.So, if you come across a good storm please send me the link.Every little bit help,as we need all the help and support we can get.I just wanted to say THANK YOU again.You guys have really touched my heart. Much Love from IP: Logged |
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pittypat Member Posts: 11 |
posted 02-25-2003 11:46 AM
One last comment/question: Doc Helladay says - "She stands correct completely correct about the breed, and what she knows about them" ARe you saying she is completely correct when she denies there is such a thing as a genetic predisposition to shyness/fear aggression? I'm sorry, but there is and this is NOT my opinion, but fact.(and a well-known fact.) And yes, she has been rude - her replies are basically - "I know everything, and the rest of you should read a book." Obviously, differing opinions and input are not wanted here. Too bad, because we who love this breed really need to stick together. IP: Logged |
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shmoopie Member Posts: 361 |
posted 02-25-2003 12:01 PM
Yes, pittypat we need to stick together. Every one is different and everyone speaks their mind differently. I don't think Pit Princess was denying the fear aggression; however, to say any dog is born aggressive is just ignorant. A dog can be born shy or very insecure, but it will always be due to a humans actions that either re enforce those traits or set the dog strait. What goob is speaking of...I don't know even what his point is....but I also hear what you are saying....maybe you can provide a link to back up yours and goob's theory please. And remember we are talking of the APBT breed...not a other breeds where human aggression was instilled....lets all remember this was never a trait of the original APBT IP: Logged |
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PITBULL_PRINCESS1979 Member Posts: 414 |
posted 02-25-2003 12:10 PM
Wait one d**mn minute.I have never denied that there was a such thing as shy/fear aggression.Maybe I misfrazed what I am trying to say..so I will put it into simple terms where you can un-der-st-and.All dogs are born with a sense of fear,but it takes something to trigger this.For example,if you have a younge puppy and you stomp your feet 9 out of ten are going to run.How ever this doesn't mean that these dogs are going to freak out everytime this happens...What I am trying to say is NO DOG is geneticly mean. Pittypat..If you think I am mean and rude now..Just keep up slamming me and I will show you how aggressive this PITBULL B***H can be.I have never called anyone stupid,and I have never been mean to anyone..All I have said was maybe you need to do a little more reading before you speak.I read something new everyday..and that means I learn something new everyday.Why don't you try it. To those who read my post and get their feelings hurt I am sorry..You have your opinions and I have mine...I will always agree to disagree..Thats how you learn and get new ideas.Sometimes small minds don't see that... IP: Logged |
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goob unregistered |
posted 02-25-2003 12:46 PM
My point is that it's not always environment that makes a dog "aggressive". I'm also not referring to puppies showing aggression, but to dogs that develop aggression as they mature because it's part of their inborn temperment. I've never heard of a pit bull puppy snapping at a kid, have you? No one wants to admit that "their" breed is in trouble, but if people keep indiscriminately breeding dogs without care as to their/their ancestors' temperments, pit bulls will be in a much worse situation in a few years than they are now. There will be more pit bull attacks because there will be more unstable pit bulls getting to owners who think they can "fix" them or who want to use that faulty temperment for bad purposes. I don't know of any links to back up what I'm saying, but if you volunteer at any shelter in a big city (or talk to anyone who's been doing rescue in one for a while), you'll see what I'm referring to. You will see stable pit bulls who have been tortured for their entire life, yet still love people. You will also see one or two pit bulls who have been pampered their entire lives, but didn't have the nerves to handle a child running over to give them a hug. It may take a while before you see one of these dogs, as they're not commonplace, nor typical of the breed, but they do "happen", and improper handling of them is one of the reasons the breed is in so much trouble. IP: Logged |
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PITBULL_PRINCESS1979 Member Posts: 414 |
posted 02-25-2003 02:20 PM
Goob, I will be the first one to tell you that my "breed' is in alot of trouble..Backyard breeders are the cause of this..I understand what you are saying now..To answer your question..No,I have never seen a pitbull puppy snap at a kid..I do have something to say about what you are calling unstable..and please correct me if I am not understanding you correctly..Like the example you gave about a pitbull being pamper but not having the nervse for a child to run up and give them a hug.I do not call this unstable..The dog is has special needs.It should be in a home where there are no children.The owner should be aware of this problem and be responsible and take the proper precautions. To make my point..You could take that very same dog,breed it and its puppies should be what you call stable.There are no garentees with reprodution.That is in humans as well as animals. I breed pitbulls for the pure joy it gives me to know that I had a hand in making this beautiful animal.I know when a puppy leaves my house that I have done everything I can to insure that it will be the very best dog it can.By that I mean that I am not just throughing to dogs together and hoping for a good outcome.I do research on all my dogs.I talk to all the owners of the dogs on thier pedigree that I can.I want to know what kind of dog they were,what their habbite were,ect. I do the same to the people that I sell my puppies to. Like I have said before my goal is to save this breed,to let people see what a true pitbull is all about. IP: Logged |
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shmoopie Member Posts: 361 |
posted 02-25-2003 02:48 PM
Goob, You are rattling my brain  You insist that a dog can be born mean towards humans? I will use my dog as an example here: I picked Duke out the day he was born. I would see him everyday until I brought him home. During my visits I would watch him interact with the other puppies. During this time Duke was very un stable. He would start fights with every other dog in the litter. He bit open one of the puppies lips. I did not know as much about this topic then as I do now, but paid very close attention as I had listened to the media about this breed and was very determined to prove them wrong. My point here is that Duke is genetically born to be a dog fighter, but through proper training and love I have changed him. I believe that any dog can be what we want it to be. This just takes effort. I understand what you are saying about genetics and aggression or fear aggression. But I do not believe any puppy is born fear aggressive. Fear aggression is learned. [This message has been edited by shmoopie (edited 02-25-2003).] IP: Logged |
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Albert Member Posts: 160 |
posted 02-25-2003 09:29 PM
Here we go starting a fight again. Heres a link to intresting resources re: "Fear aggression in dogs" so we can all do some reading and learn before starting to bash each other. P.S. Peace [This message has been edited by Albert (edited 02-25-2003).] IP: Logged |
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shmoopie Member Posts: 361 |
posted 02-26-2003 03:42 PM
Albert - Thank you for that! Almost exactly as Pit Princess and I were saying IP: Logged |
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