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Author Topic:   Dog Reproduction?
elizavixen
Member

Posts: 160
From:Columbia, SC, USA
Registered: Dec 2003

posted 01-29-2004 10:16 AM     Click Here to See the Profile for elizavixen     Edit/Delete Message
Neither the puppy or Samantha are fixed. I don't know why I never got Samantha spayed. I think it was just that she never needed to be. Well, now with her being 6, I don't really want to do it this late in her life b/c I worry about what will happen to her during surgery being so big(100+ lbs) and old.

And the puppy, I really don't want to get him fixed either. He is now around 4 mos. I don't want to get him fixed because I may want to breed him later (please don't lecture me about this - it will probably never happen, I just like the option). I will get him fixed though if I have any aggression, running away problems.

As for the two of them, I DEFINATELY do not want any puppies. I haven't noticed anything going on between them. I just wanted to know at what age will the puppy be able to make more puppies?

And for my own curiosity, do dogs ever go through menopause? or something like it?

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Danecrazy
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Posts: 16
From:Washington
Registered: Jan 2004

posted 01-29-2004 11:22 AM     Click Here to See the Profile for Danecrazy     Edit/Delete Message
Your male will actually be able to breed around 6 months. I have heard of people breeding a male at 9 months.
I have to say if your female is not fixed and neither is your male you are asking to go crazy. Males will spray in your house where he smells the girl sent. He will drive you crazy with wining and barking wanting to get to your female. It will only get worse as he gets older. I would really talk to your vet about getting your female spayed. Good Luck!

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susan_cude@hotmail.com
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Posts: 813
From:Santa Maria, Ca.
Registered: Nov 2003

posted 01-29-2004 11:27 AM     Click Here to See the Profile for susan_cude@hotmail.com     Edit/Delete Message
Do you know when Samantha is in heat? because he could get to her at 8 months old, at leasr that's what I've been told. just because you don't see it doesn't mean it didn't happen, when Casey got pregnant I didn't see it happen either. I thought he (the pomeranian that snuck into my yard) didn't get her, but I have 5 puppies that say he did! You can't take any chances, you may want to call your vet and ask at what age your puppy is fertile. Good luck! and I know you will get more advise here.

Susan

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susan_cude@hotmail.com
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Posts: 813
From:Santa Maria, Ca.
Registered: Nov 2003

posted 01-29-2004 11:34 AM     Click Here to See the Profile for susan_cude@hotmail.com     Edit/Delete Message
Hi again, Danecrazy is right! I would talk to the vet about spaying her, i know you're scared for her, but I'm sure she would be o.k. and it's better than her going through pregnancy and birthing puppies, isn't it? And what he said about your pup going crazy is "oh so true" my sister breeds shi tzu's, one time they didn't want her to breed with thier male because she was sick. That dog went nuts trying to get to her! and the female did too, when it came time for her to mate. It drove them crazy!!!!

Just think about it! Good luck! Susan

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Jamiya
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Registered: Sep 2003

posted 01-29-2004 11:57 AM     Click Here to See the Profile for Jamiya     Edit/Delete Message
Yes, I would talk to your vet about the risks of spaying Samantha. I did a quick look on the web and came up with this statement from a Q&A with a vet:

"A: Vickie- I have never really understood the logic behind thinking that older animals are more susceptible to anesthetic problems. Personally, I would much rather anesthetize a twelve year old dog with no previous history of anesthesia than a six month old one with the same history. Just the fact that the dog lives to be twelve or thirteen years old is a good sign that its body works well and is not likely to have a serious hidden defect that would lead to sensitivity to anesthesia. The veterinarians who claim that older animals are at an increased risk of anesthetic complications believe that as a pet ages it is more likely to accumulate problems such as heart valve insufficiencies, kidney damage or liver damage which make anesthesia a greater risk. I have repeatedly asked veterinarians which patients die most frequently from unexplained anesthetic crises and virtually all of them have lost a patient during a spay procedure, an ear crop or some other pediatric surgical procedure and very few can remember an incidence of anesthetic death in an older pet. Surgical deaths are more common in this age range because the surgeon is less likely to be doing a routine procedure on healthy tissue but I strongly question the assumption that there is an increased risk of anesthetic death in an older patient with normal clinical signs other than a problem such as mammary cancer. Particularly if the better anesthetic agents are used."


Now this is only one person so don't regard it as the Bible! Definitely discuss the risks with your vet. Also, I highly recommend a pre-surgery blood panel. My vet won't do surgery without one. This can point out any problems with the kidneys, for instance, that would make anesthesia more dangerous.

If you really don't want to get her spayed, re-think your likelihood of breeding your puppy. I like to leave doors open as well, but you have to evaluate the possible risks.

If you don't get one of them altered, I definitely see puppies in your future, no matter how careful you are.


Jamiya

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elizavixen
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Posts: 160
From:Columbia, SC, USA
Registered: Dec 2003

posted 01-29-2004 01:57 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for elizavixen     Edit/Delete Message
Thanks for the replies. I have had males that weren't neutered and they were never really much of a problem. I did have one that I got neutered and always regretted it. He was the most amazing dog.

I guess I have got a few months before I have to worry about it. I'll contemplate getting Samantha spayed during that time. She was last in heat in Sept so I guess she will be due around March. I'll talk to the vet about it next time I'm there.

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Jas

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Registered: May 2003

posted 01-29-2004 08:44 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for Jas     Edit/Delete Message
There are many opinions as to when to neuter (& spay). I feel it should be later than 6 months, preferably closer to a year. Even then that's iffy. For the sake of a pet being a pet and responsible dog ownership around 6 months of age is often recommended.

More likely that behavior problems may come out of not neutering earlier, essentially depends on how proficient the owner is in training dogs and how much socialization dogs had with other dogs.

******

A 6 year old dog is hardly old and definitely not too old for anesthesia. Also a good opportunity for teeth cleaning while under...if necess. Many say dogs should be neutered/spayed by 6 or 7 years as this will largely reduce the risk of cancers that result after this age.

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Samsintentions
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From:Columbus, Tx ,USA
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posted 01-30-2004 04:37 AM     Click Here to See the Profile for Samsintentions     Edit/Delete Message
I'd have to agree with Jas. 6 isn't all that old. SHe's in her prime right now.
I've known of males that have bred as early as 6 months. Just because their testicals are not in view, doesn't mean they aren't there!!! Same goes with horses and cats...

Since you don't want to breed your female, and you want to leave an "oppertunity" open for your male, I would suggest getting your female spayed. THe only concern you should have with her getting spayed, is gaining weight. I've had many many females spayed and some were much older.

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elizavixen
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From:Columbia, SC, USA
Registered: Dec 2003

posted 01-30-2004 06:32 AM     Click Here to See the Profile for elizavixen     Edit/Delete Message
The reason I say she is old is b/c she is a St. Bernard and their life span is about 8-10 yrs. So she is sort of a senior dog.

But I am going to see what the vet says about spaying her.

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MistressKela
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Posts: 275
From:My IQ is higher than yours, I guarantee it.
Registered: Dec 2003

posted 01-30-2004 03:12 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for MistressKela     Edit/Delete Message
Just neuter the boy...dont fix the older girl. Why would you not want to fix the boy? Unless he is show quality in every way....he is not going to be necessary to breed. There are plenty of males out there that are show candidates and winners that are being bred and unless he is going to be one of those perfect dogs..you dont need to breed him.

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elizavixen
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From:Columbia, SC, USA
Registered: Dec 2003

posted 01-30-2004 03:56 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for elizavixen     Edit/Delete Message
I think you can have a great dog without them having to be show quality. Show quality is not important to me. Health and personality are what is important to me. If I have a dog who has both then I would like to maybe have a puppy by him.

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MistressKela
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From:My IQ is higher than yours, I guarantee it.
Registered: Dec 2003

posted 01-30-2004 07:45 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for MistressKela     Edit/Delete Message
And that is the reason there are unwanted dogs FILLING our nations animal shelters. Do you know how many *million* pets are put to sleep every year? Let breeders who know what they are doing breed the animals. There are TONS of healthy dogs out there. At 4 months you have no idea what your dog is going to be like. You could start breeding him and discover he has a genetic defect that kills him before he turns 5. Breeders breed dogs they know are good because you know what? They also have the parents..grandparents...etc. The simple fact that you didnt spay your first dog...

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susan_cude@hotmail.com
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From:Santa Maria, Ca.
Registered: Nov 2003

posted 01-31-2004 12:04 AM     Click Here to See the Profile for susan_cude@hotmail.com     Edit/Delete Message
I understand all of the concerns about fixing the male, but that's up to you! he's your dog and if you want to breed him, that's your choice. But it is so true that so many have a bad ending, so that is something to concider. Whatever your decision is, I'm behind you 100%! Good luck! Susan

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charmedagain
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Posts: 790
From:uk
Registered: Aug 2003

posted 01-31-2004 03:15 AM     Click Here to See the Profile for charmedagain     Edit/Delete Message
MistressKela We are here to give advice not judge people for what they want to do with there animals, Yes i agree there is alot of unwanted pets in shelters.
I breed german shepherds and only one of my males is show quality but so are 2 of my bitches.
But i still get wonderful well coated healthy strong pups providing there is no health problems within the blood line then there should be no health issue's with the litters.
I have my dogs checked regularly and i also keep a check on there line.
The pups my dogs have i keep in touch with the new owners and i do spot checks on the dogs.
So the breeding for show quality dogs is not important aslong as it's not breeding for making money as the amount of money made usually goes on vet bills and animla care and aslong as it improves the breed and there are going to be no problems with them then i dont see the problem.
I am not saying everyone should breed there dogs as that would just be irresponsible.

It is upto the individual owner what they decide wether to spay/nueter there animals or not.

elizavixen
You do what you feel is best, I dont think there will be many risks to having yur female spayed as i am thinking of having all mine fixed and the oldest is now coming upto 7 years old and she is strong healthy with no problems apart from she can eat like a horse so i would have to put her on a diet when she been spayed hehehehe

mike.
boro_lad1976@hotmail.com

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elizavixen
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Posts: 160
From:Columbia, SC, USA
Registered: Dec 2003

posted 01-31-2004 06:54 AM     Click Here to See the Profile for elizavixen     Edit/Delete Message
thanks susan and mike.

To MistressKela
I didn't have her spayed b/c I never really thought about it. I was 15 when I got her. My other dog was fixed. She didn't really go into heat until she was about 3 so the issue never really came up until then. but even then, she is not one of those crazy female dogs when she is in heat. Smells a bit but she never trys to go anywhere and I have never had a problem with other dogs trying to get in. I'm going to think about the spaying it is just that she is my baby and if something happened to her I would never forgive myself.

And the male, he is a good quality dog, AKC, and at 4 mos he has a great personality (I know that could change). Did I say that I would breed him as soon as he could get it up? No, but maybe when Samantha dies or he gets old, I would like to have a puppy by him. I don't know what the future will be. I do know that I don't want to take away my only chance for no particular reason. And I also do not appreciate the assumption that I wouldn't do it responsibly. You do not know me so please do not make generalizations towards what I would do or wouldn't do.

As for the dogs in shelters, yes that is awful. However, those dogs are not for me. I have always had St. Bernards my whole life and do not wish to have any other breed. At least where I live, St. Bernards are not in abundance. I had to drive to a different state to get mine. Most people who want St. bernards are not going to find then in shelters, nor are they going to substitute a saint for a dog from a shelter. (I mean know disrespect for shelter dogs in this statement). so anyways, I hardly think my one time breeding is going to take away homes for shelter dogs.

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puggleowner
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Posts: 228
From:Grand Rapids, MI
Registered: Nov 2003

posted 01-31-2004 01:20 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for puggleowner     Edit/Delete Message
Why is everyone ganging up on MistressKela? She has just as much of a right to express her opinion on fixing a dog as elizavixen has to express her opinion in not fixing hers. I agree with what MistressKela said- there are so many dogs in shelters and so many qualified breeders out there that it just seems so unnecessary to me for people that have no experience with breeding to do it simply for convenience, especially if it can cause other problems such as a senior dog who is not fit in any way to have puppies to become pregnant. Is it worth putting your female and other female dogs at risk of pregnancy simply because you don't want to drive too far to get another St. Bernard? I'd understand if you owned the last two on earth, but come on...

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Jas

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posted 01-31-2004 02:24 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for Jas     Edit/Delete Message
I concur with Puggle's sentiment

MistressKela wrote:

quote:
Unless he is show quality in every way....he is not going to be necessary to breed. There are plenty of males out there that are show candidates and winners that are being bred and unless he is going to be one of those perfect dogs..

I agree with MistressKela on this. But add in that show quality means the dog conforms to the breed standard & the basic correct structure is there. I prefer my own dogs to be Champions before deciding if they will be bred - however not all dogs who are bred need to be Champions but they should be show quality nonetheless. If a dog isn't show quality, it probably shouldn't be bred - as this does not aid in defining proper "TYPE" within a breed. Basic correct structure needs to be there so the dog can do the job it was bred for. Incorrect structure - straight fronts, weak rear ends etc.., in most breeds, limit the dog from performing (showing, running, herding agility etc) with ease and often makes them compensate their movement in some other way, which causes wear & tear (i.e. arthritis) on the dog later in life. If you want a dog to hold up well into old age correct structure is important. But I believe in very selective breeding with the goal of HEALTH, TEMPERAMENT & TYPE. Without ALL of that and good breeding ethics one is not doing everything they can for the breed and IMO shouldn't be breeding.

There are some good reference books for those considering breeding:
K-9 Structure & Terminology, Gilbert & Brown
Dog Locomotion and Gait Analysis, Brown
Padgett's - Control of Canine Genetic Disease

Just my .02

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Maisey
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From:Portland, Oregon US
Registered: Sep 2003

posted 01-31-2004 02:43 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for Maisey     Edit/Delete Message
I agree as well.

Those first two books you have listed happen to be on my wish list, although I have no plans of breeding anything, probably ever I would really like to understand da doggie locomotion.

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elizavixen
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Posts: 160
From:Columbia, SC, USA
Registered: Dec 2003

posted 01-31-2004 03:22 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for elizavixen     Edit/Delete Message
The reason why I MAY want to breed him is not because I don't want to drive too far to get another one. It is because if he turns out to be a great dog then I would like another one.

Is it worth putting your female and other female dogs at risk of pregnancy simply because you don't want to drive too far to get another St. Bernard?
First of all, if you read my post, you would know I'm not breeding my female. In fact, that was the whole point of my post, because I do NOT want to breed her. And as far as putting other females at risk, wouldn't all females be at risk, show quality or not? Why put such a spectacular, perfect, show dog at risk when you can put a no good, worthless, pathetic dog at risk?

And as far as ganging up on MistressKela, there is a right way and a wrong way about offering opinions. I said in my post I didn't want to be lectured about it because I know how some people on this site feel. Her tone to me just came across as being very rude and obnoxious. You can disagree with someone without being rude. And you can also just keep your mouth shut, esp since I specifically asked NOT to be lectured about it.

Anyways, I would NEVER breed any dog that I didn't feel would produce excellent puppies. I have read the breed standards of the St. Bernard, and by the looks of him now and the looks of his parents, he (the puppy) conforms to those standards. Whether he will as an adult, I don't know. If he would win at a show, I have no idea.

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puggleowner
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From:Grand Rapids, MI
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posted 01-31-2004 04:44 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for puggleowner     Edit/Delete Message
Just for the record, I DID read your post- I would not reply to a post had I not read it, and I am well aware that you are not intending to breed your female. What I meant was that you would be putting your female at risk if she were to accidentally get pregnant by your un-neutered male. I'm not trying to be snippy, just wanted to defend my reply.

Also, I don't feel that anyone's opinions on this post have been of the rude variety you are describing. You say that people with "rude" responses such as M. Kela shouldn't respond at all because you didn't want a lecture on fixing your dog-- what kind of response, then, did you expect? Obviously if you didn't want to hear anything against fixing your dog, all you wanted to hear was people agreeing with how you felt.

When you post a question, you are asking for people's advice, and sometimes that advice will not always be what you agree with or what you want to hear- but by asking a question, you are inviting answers. If you didn't want to hear people's advice, then maybe you shouldn't have posted the question in the first place.

Again, not trying to be rude, I'm just giving MY honest opinion. Please don't take offense to people's responses, they are just trying to give you what they feel is the best advise.

The purpose of this board is to help others, and even though it can come in the form of responses we don't want to hear,I think it's important to look at all sides of the issue before you make your own decision, so that you can be sure that it was a thoroughly informed one.

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MistressKela
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From:My IQ is higher than yours, I guarantee it.
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posted 01-31-2004 04:50 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for MistressKela     Edit/Delete Message
At four months old you know NOTHING about the dogs personality or health. Period. Not to mention his personality will have little to do with his puppies personalities unless you keep the ENTIRE litter and they are raised around him. And I mean keep...not sell after 8 weeks. Personality isnt something a dog passes down via his sperm. If the breed has a tendency to have personality traits in general of what you like...then its because of the breed..not your dog. I have a loyal chihuahua. He gives kisses. Thats because of how I raised him and what his breed is...his parents were skittish little twits when I met them.

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MaryNH
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From:Campton, NH USA
Registered: Jan 2004

posted 01-31-2004 05:50 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for MaryNH     Edit/Delete Message
all that I've read here there has been no mention of adding the possibility of testicular cancer in the male dog by not neutering him (a strong possibility).

Unneutered adult male dogs can become aggressive when around a female in heat - another strong chance you are adding and with a dog that size not something I'd want to chance with your possibly maybe might want to let him be a father.

I cannot imagine trying to control a dog that is 100+ pounds if he knows there is a female in heat somewhere.

But also the health risks.

But if you do decide to breed please do all the necessary health checks for Saint Bernards. Test for all possible genetic issues before you do that - my GSD came from a BYBer before I knew such things existed (she's nearly 10) this person didn't test for anything. So I've got a shepherd who was born with hip dysplasia (could here her hips clicking when she walked when she was only 3 mos. old), now she has genetically-related liver disease and other issues going on.

So it's so important to test for genetic problems before you do any breeding...in all fairness to future puppies and their owners who end up having to deal with the health issues.

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Maisey
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From:Portland, Oregon US
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posted 01-31-2004 06:28 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for Maisey     Edit/Delete Message
Personality? or Temperment? Temperment is very much a trait that is passed on in my opinion. Even so...if you like the temperment on the puppy you have, buying another puppy from the breeder produced from the same pairing is an option. An option that means you wouldn't have to breed a litter from which you will be keeping one puppy and then faced with finding homes for the rest. In this way you wouldn't have to worry about health issues, clashes in the house and keeping your male and female apart.
I think maybe some of the responses you got may be in part because your post seems a little desultory in regards to why your female was never spayed and why you don't want to neuter your male. I am only going to suggest the option above and that maybe weighing out the slight possibility that you might want to breed him at some unforeseen time in the future against the health benefits of neutering him and the added plusses of not having to deal with behavioral issues or keeping them separated.
Same for your female, having her spayed does offer her health benefits.
As for the basic question you asked...I will tell you that my male Catahoula got a full erection with the bulb out and all at 5 1/2 months of age... I don't know if that means he was capable of impregnating a female but it sure meant he could attempt to. You could do a search using the search feature on your browser on the topic and see what you find.

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elizavixen
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From:Columbia, SC, USA
Registered: Dec 2003

posted 01-31-2004 07:40 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for elizavixen     Edit/Delete Message
Puggleowner - I thought you thought that I was wanting to breed my female. Sorry, I misread your post.

quote:
Obviously if you didn't want to hear anything against fixing your dog, all you wanted to hear was people agreeing with how you felt.

Actually I just wanted to know when my puppy would be able to get another dog pregnant. Next time, I will just post the basic question with no background so as to not start a lecture.

quote:
At four months old you know NOTHING about the dogs personality or health.

I disagree. You may not know everything but you definately know something.

quote:
Personality isnt something a dog passes down via his sperm.

I disagree with this as well. And by personality I do mean temperment. Of course it is not guaranteed but I certainly wouldn't want puppies from two aggressive parents.

One last thing, I don't mind people's opinions. It is the way the are given. Obviously on a message board, it is impossible to tell someone's tone and maybe I misread MistressKela's tone, she still seemed rude to me. I just take offense when people try to make it as though I would just casually breed, which I would not. Maybe I should have gotten Samantha spayed earlier. Well, I didn't. I still don't think that makes me irresponsible. And I don't think that through an internet message board you can accurately disagree with that statement.

Anyways, thank you to those who answered my question and to those who offered their opinions in a nice way. I will take all this into consideration and speak to my vet in the coming months about having Samantha spayed.

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susan_cude@hotmail.com
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From:Santa Maria, Ca.
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posted 01-31-2004 11:53 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for susan_cude@hotmail.com     Edit/Delete Message
Well girl, one thing is for sure! you will now have a very "informed" decesion to make.
Sometimes we get more than we ask for, don't we? I agree with you, it's not always what was said, it was how it was said. Whatever you decide to do in the future is intirely your decision to make. But please know that even the ones that seemed rude are very passionate about how they feel about certain things, and that "is" their right. Just like it is your right to disagree with them. They are your dogs! I'm sure that you will do what is best for them, it's obvious you love them. Good luck to you! Susan

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MistressKela
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From:My IQ is higher than yours, I guarantee it.
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posted 02-01-2004 01:33 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for MistressKela     Edit/Delete Message
Here tell me if this describes your four month old puppy: he's playful...very active but he takes lots of naps. He loves to chew on his toys. He wags his tail when he sees you. When your voice gets all excited...he gets all excited and starts wiggling around. Oh and maybe he likes to lick and give kisses?

Gee. The only way to get a puppy with that personality must be to breed your own dog. Because thats just the most unique dog in the whole world.

You're willing to risk your older dogs health. If I ruled the world...not only would breeding be out of the question...pet ownership period...would be as well.

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elizavixen
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From:Columbia, SC, USA
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posted 02-01-2004 02:12 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for elizavixen     Edit/Delete Message
MistressKela - Grow up.

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charmedagain
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From:uk
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posted 02-01-2004 02:39 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for charmedagain     Edit/Delete Message
Hi, MistressKela they was no suggestion that
elexivian was going to let her female have puppies she said that she may want to let her little fella father puppies some time in the future. She is well within her rights to decide wether to have her dogs spayed/neutered yes its better for the dogs but i breed german shepherds and all of my pups have grown to be well mannered and loving pets.

MaryNH I have to disagree with the statement that all male dogs become agressive when there is a bitch in heat this si not true for all males i have 2males 3 bitches and my males do not and never have fought over the bitches there is also no territoral agression between any of my dogs.

The females are never agressive even when they have pups the behaviour of any animals is the way it is raised.

my pups some act like there mother sweet loving and always wanting hugs the others take after there fathers very bouncy and mischievious so i would say that personality is passed down to the pups.

But all in all she came here for advice not to be ridiculed and made out to be a bad owner as i have been brought up its upto each individual owner and individual parents how they raise they children and animals and its not for others to judge well unless the animals or kids are neglected or abused.

This is all just my opinion

mike

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Maisey
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From:Portland, Oregon US
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posted 02-01-2004 02:53 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for Maisey     Edit/Delete Message
MistressKela, at four months of age Catahoula pups are many times already introduced in the bay pen on hogs, cattle or sheep. At this age they get a very good idea of a pups ability and how he may go along as he matures. You can get a pretty good idea of a pups type by watching them play and interact with people and other pups. The lady I got Witt from, was simply a rescue person, not even a breeder. She was able to put a personality or type on each pup, eight of them...and you know what? she was correct. Everyone who has one of these pups still keeps in touch, they are over a year old now and have lived up to her predictions. She knew Witt would be a bossy little bully, forever be getting into trouble and curious. He is. She nailed it when she said one of the pups would be very laid back and mellow..another would be athletic and outgoing. You can get a basic idea of a dogs type early on.

Here is a point of view that hasn't been brought up either...eliza owns a male, she stated she did NOT want to breed it to her female. She could always go to a breeder and ask for a breeding to a complimentry female with pick of litter. That way an experienced breeder is involved, she gets the pup she wants. It's just one option...there's more than one view, more than one opinion, discussing them is one thing, getting nasty because she doesn't agree with your opinion is not helpful, educational nor productive. She did say she would consider the opinions offered and talk with her vet..I don't know how you can ask for more than that.

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MistressKela
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From:My IQ is higher than yours, I guarantee it.
Registered: Dec 2003

posted 02-01-2004 04:34 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for MistressKela     Edit/Delete Message
quote:
MistressKela - Grow up.

True sign of a qualified breeder. Charmed I didnt say anything about breeding the female pup.
Maisey...while it hasnt been explicitly stated here...I'm about 95% sure that the particular dog in question will be doing no herding of any sort. Once again...I am betting that the response garnered from my last post was a knee jerk reaction to the truthfullness of my statement. Puppies at that age all have similar bubbly happy friendly bouncy personalities and is no indication of how the puppy will act full grown.

All of that is besides the point completely anyways. Breeding a dog by no means makes the puppies personality anything resembling the adult. Any resemblances are because the animal is the same breed and inherited the same general traits and simply purchasing a puppy of the same breed from a knowledgeable breeder is the way to go instead of counting the days until the older pup dies and breeding a dog that was most likely sold as a pet quality animal as it is not an ideal breeder.

[This message has been edited by MistressKela (edited 02-01-2004).]

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Maisey
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From:Portland, Oregon US
Registered: Sep 2003

posted 02-01-2004 04:43 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for Maisey     Edit/Delete Message
I understand your opinion on temperment and disagree. The reaction to your last post was on my part due to my perception of your lack of tact in expressing your opinion and lack of ability to agree to disagree in a tactful way.

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charmedagain
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Posts: 790
From:uk
Registered: Aug 2003

posted 02-01-2004 04:47 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for charmedagain     Edit/Delete Message
well i have to state that if a pup is bouncy and lively and loving while a puppy you can bet your bottom dollar they stay that way providing the new owner does not teach it things like agression towards other animals or people.
One of my dogs who is now 5 and is expecting well atleast i hope she still is i will find out when she has her ultra sound, Is still the same as she was when i got her as a puppy my neice and nephews have pulled at her bit her ears sat on her and everything and she has never once turned on them providing the pup is brought up loving and none agressive it will stay the way it was when it was a pup.

I can honestly state that my dogs are well mannered, loving bouncy lively dogs and this has also passed to my puppies in every litter so the statement of this trait not passing to the pups from there parents is rubbish as i think it does.

mike

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elizavixen
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Posts: 160
From:Columbia, SC, USA
Registered: Dec 2003

posted 02-01-2004 05:31 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for elizavixen     Edit/Delete Message
quote:
True sign of a qualified breeder.

Thank you.

Oh, I had something else to say. Not all puppies are bouncy, happy, etc. Some are actually shy and timid.

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MistressKela
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Posts: 275
From:My IQ is higher than yours, I guarantee it.
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posted 02-01-2004 07:34 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for MistressKela     Edit/Delete Message
You know why that is?

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elizavixen
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Posts: 160
From:Columbia, SC, USA
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posted 02-01-2004 07:58 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for elizavixen     Edit/Delete Message
No. Please amuse me with your infinite wisdom.

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puggleowner
Member

Posts: 228
From:Grand Rapids, MI
Registered: Nov 2003

posted 02-01-2004 08:39 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for puggleowner     Edit/Delete Message
Ok girls- (I am just assuming you are by your usernames, so if I am wrong please let me know )- this is getting a little out of hand, and seems to be getting personal. It is completely understandable that you both have your own views, and you both have a right to those. But what good does it do to be taking jabs at one another and writing posts that no longer have anything to do with the original issue, just to get at each other? You are never going to agree, so just leave it at that and move on.

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Jas

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Registered: May 2003

posted 02-01-2004 08:40 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for Jas     Edit/Delete Message
****Ok, this post has generated many varying responses, viewpoints and brought up some significant information. Lets not exhaust this this topic with pointless bickering - please!****

Thanks
(taking off moderator cap)

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