Member

Posts: 85
From:Hamilton, ON, Canada
Registered: Jul 2003

posted 08-18-2003 05:48 AM         

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Well its been just over a month now since we adopted Cleo and her eating habits have not yet changed. I feed her 1/3 cup in the morning and 1/3 cup in the late afternoon as per vet instrustions for a cat of her weight. The problem is that she is always hungry. When I fill her dish at 7am its eaten by 7:04. The same thing happens in the evening, and whenever we go near her food dish she is there begging for more food. I don't want to feed her more then the reccomended amount as I am worried about weight gain.

Can anyone explain why she eats like this?

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From:NY, USA
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posted 08-18-2003 03:16 PM         

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Mine also acted like they were starving when I fed them twice a day but they were used to being free fed. Maybe you can split her daily portion of food into 3 meals instead of 2? Its possible that more frequent meals would keep her feeling full even if they are smaller portions. Just a thought.

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From:Hamilton, ON, Canada
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posted 08-18-2003 03:48 PM         

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Nern

Thats a good idea, I'll try it. Although splitting 2/3 cup into 3 portions will be tiny feeding sessions.

lol

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Posts: 2
From:Waldport, OR USA
Registered: Aug 2003

posted 08-18-2003 05:33 PM         

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Several thoughts here. I assume you've checked for worms. If not, do so asap. But cats who were removed from their mothers too soon, or are very insecure/needy, often have an "orphan mentality." I personally don't think it really has anything to do with being hungry. But, I firmly believe in feeding raw meat and several cats we've had with this particular problem changed literally overnight when fed raw meat. Try it, you might be surprised at how well it works.

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Rose

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From:Hamilton, ON, Canada
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posted 08-18-2003 06:01 PM         

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Rose

She does not have worms, can you explain the theory behind the raw meat?

Thanks

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From:New Zealand
Registered: May 2003

posted 08-18-2003 09:02 PM         

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I agree with Rosie on this. The raw meat somehow fills them up better and you don't need much of it for them to be satisfied.

Also, typically cats will not overeat if they are given a days worth of dry food at a time. Unlike dogs they will eat little and often. One study showed they will eat as often as 20 times a day, but not put on weight.

Of course I would expect the first few days after you increased the amount of food, your cat will eat like a mad thing but thats pretty normal. Eventually most cats calm down when they realise their food supply is secure and they eat less.

I say most cats becuase there are the odd few that never get used to having food around and will always 'pig out'. I would give your cat two weeks tops to decide which type it is. Then police the food accordingly.

Heres a bit to read about the topic if you want: http://www.felinefuture.com/nutrition/

there are some good articles there, but some of it promotes a product.

Greypaw

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Posts: 141
From:Nova Scotia, Canada
Registered: May 2003

posted 08-19-2003 04:18 AM         

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I also adopted my cats and they had to eat with their litter mates and "fought" for food. So when I brought them home, they literally devoured their meal and kept doing so until they realized that they could take their time and it would still be there. I feed my cats far enough away so they don't feel threatened from each other. And they also act like they are starving even when there is food in their dish. They are both on strict diets now and I feed them 3 times a day to spread their food out 7am, 5pm and 11pm. Seems to help.

As for protein, like with humans, it fill you up and keeps you feeling full. However, keep in mind that too much protein and cause liver problems - same premise behind protein diets in humans.

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From:NY, USA
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posted 08-19-2003 05:17 PM         

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quote:

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However, keep in mind that too much protein and cause liver problems - same premise behind protein diets in humans.

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Hmmm......
How much protein is too much protein for a carnivore?

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From:Nova Scotia, Canada
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posted 08-19-2003 06:14 PM         

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Good question, I don't know.....

But I do know that my sister's cat was diagnosed with liver problems which the vet attributed to her home-made cat food consisting soley of raw meat,oatmeal and a concoction of other organic items. She since switched to kibble and canned foods.

As for people on high protein diets..... "Carbo metabolism produces only water and carbon dioxide, but protein metabolism produces ammonia, a very strong toxin. In self-defense, our liver converts the ammonia to urea and our kidneys flush the less-but-still-toxic urea from our bodies with extra water. This dehydrates us and leaches minerals, especially calcium, from our bones. The ammonia and the extra workload of converting and flushing it damages our kidneys and liver irreparably over a period of two or three decades" http://www.seasoned.com/issues/200006/c.hf.p1.html

I guess what I was trying to sy in my last post was becareful in giving an animal an all-protein diet. At least with kibble and canned foods, there is fibre, vitamins, minerals, etc that balance out the diet.

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Posts: 996
From:sheridan, wy
Registered: Aug 2003

posted 08-19-2003 10:19 PM         

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My cats all have free access to food. I fill up the dishes when they are low. I have too many to have designated feeding times. I only have two that are a little overweight, they both gained weight after they were spaid. I have done this all my life with my cats, and I have never had a cat that overate and became fat. Cats are pretty good self regulators. You might try leaving her food down for her.

I feed my dogs a set amount of food a day, I put it in their bowls and they eat at it at their pace until it is gone. If you want to give her a set amount of food you could put it all in in the morning and let her eat at her pace. Just an idea. Personally I believe in letting cats have free access to food unless they overeat or are overweight. It's comforting to a lot of cats to know that the food is there even if they aren't eating it. Especially if they were strays or had to fight their siblings for food.

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Posts: 1591
From:NY, USA
Registered: Oct 2002

posted 08-20-2003 04:06 PM         

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I went back to free feeding too but I measure it out rather than just refilling when the bowels are empty. I also have too many to mess around with meal feeding not to mention they were all miserable when I attempted it. Right now between six cats they are splitting a large can of food and getting 1/3 cup dry food (which has been lasting 2 days lately) in each bowl which they are free to eat at their leizure. Seems to be working out well here.

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posted 08-20-2003 04:09 PM         

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LOL. Sorry that should have read: "when the bowls are empty" rather than "when the bowels are empty".

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From:Hamilton, ON, Canada
Registered: Jul 2003

posted 08-20-2003 04:28 PM         

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Or first cat is overweight so free feeding isn't something I want to try unless I switch to diet food for less active cats. My indoor cat's only activity is running from the other cat and moving to the food dish.

Does anyone know anything about "diet type food"?

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posted 08-20-2003 08:40 PM         

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Canned food is supposed to be good to help cats lose weight provided that it is not over-fed. If you would be more comfortable feeding dry though...my recommedation would be Royal Canin Slim.
Check out this article: http://home.earthlink.net/~jacm2/id1.html

This the part on Obesity in cats but the entire article is well worth reading if you have the time.
Quoted from above site:
Obesity in Cats
Although figures vary, it is estimated that 25 to 33% of cats are overweight or substantially obese.38 In fact, obesity is the most common nutritional disorder in dogs and cats in the United States. There are a large number of factors that contribute to this problem, including sex (sexually intact vs neutered; male vs female), age, activity (indoor vs outdoor), and feeding style (meal feeding vs free choice).39 Neutered male and female animals require fewer calories (estimates of 25 to 30%) for maintenance than sexually intact animals.40 It has also been suggested that neutering may increase food intake, especially in male cats, and result in disordered leptin control of body fat mass.c Furthermore, many people prefer to feed their cats dry food that is available free choice. Active cats with a thin body condition that effectively self-regulate their intake may be fed food free choice. However, many inactive cats cannot be fed this way, because they tend to overeat as a result of the increased amount of fat and palatability of commercially available foods. There are a variety of possible explanations for obesity in pet cats, including hormonal changes (eg, neutering), boredom (eg, indoor cats), type of diet (eg, dry CHO-based food), inactivity (eg, decreased energy expenditure), or simple overfeeding. However, although a combination of these factors is likely to be important in the development of obesity, the role of diet in this problem is increasingly being scrutinized. Regardless of the cause, obese cats have many health issues, such as development of diabetes mellitus, joint disturbances or lameness, development of feline lower urinary tract disease, IHL, and nonallergic skin conditions.
One dietary factor that is receiving increased attention in obese cats is the role of CHO-dense diets. Cats housed exclusively indoors and consuming energy-dense, high-starch, dry foods are provided with more energy than they can effectively use. Any dietary CHO not used for energy is converted and stored as fat. Diets that are severely restricted for energy (eg, traditional low-fat, high-fiber, weight-loss diets) may result in weight loss, but it is often to the detriment of lean body mass.41,d Many of these diets contain high concentrations (> 15%) of insoluble fiber, which increases fecal bulk and volume, potentially increases fecal water loss (eg, increase risk of dehydration in cats not consuming an adequate quantity of water), and has detrimental effects on nutrient (eg, protein) digestibility.42,43 Ultimately, successful weight loss requires maintenance of lean body mass, because lean body mass is the major determinant of basal energy metabolism and is a major influence on whether weight is regained.44
Several investigators have evaluated the use of a high-protein, low-CHO diet (protein, 45% or higher; nitrogen free extract [NFE], < 10%; energy, 3,030 kcal of metabolizable energy [ME]/kg of food on an as-fed basis) for weight loss in cats. In 1 study,d weight reduction in cats on a high-protein, low-CHO diet was compared with that for cats fed a commercial hypoenergetic diet (protein, 34%; NFE, 45%; energy, 2,600 kcal of ME/kg of food on an as-fed basis). Cats in both groups lost weight, but cats consuming the high-protein, low-CHO diet maintained lean body mass during weight loss. Additional studies are necessary, but this approach to inducing weight loss in cats makes metabolic and nutritional sense providing that they are fed appropriate amounts of food (ie, food is not available free choice).
Canned foods generally are best to provide a high-protein, low-CHO dietary combination. Most dry foods are energy dense and have greater CHO concentrations (CHO > 25% on a dry-matter [DM] basis), because starch is necessary to make the kibble. The typical nutrient characteristics of canned foods formulated for kittens are 45 to 55% protein (DM basis), 8 to 15% starch (DM basis), and 15 to 25% fat (DM basis) with little dietary fiber (< 1% [DM basis]). These characteristics are not far removed from that of the natural diet of cats (Appendix 1).
One aspect of weight loss that has received a great deal of attention in recent years is the use of carnitine supplementation in an attempt to enhance weight loss. In 1 study,20 investigators revealed that supplemental amounts of carnitine in diets formulated for cats increased lipid metabolism despite an apparent lack of evidence of a carnitine deficiency in those cats. Furthermore, it decreased the amount of time required to achieve safe weight loss in those cats. Oral administration of carnitine (250 mg/d) is recommended for obese cats undergoing weight loss.20,21,23 Underscoring the increased interest in the use of carnitine for weight loss, pet food companies are adding carnitine to their weight-reduction diet formulas, and this should be taken into account when considering the provision of additional amounts of carnitine.

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posted 08-20-2003 08:51 PM         

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BTW, after reading this article and others like it I have increased the amount of canned food Im feeding and have decreased the dry. I think Bella has actually lost a little...but I won't know for sure until her vet appointment in 2wks. The other two I have that are chubby don't really care for the canned food that much so I may try the Royal Canin Slim for them.

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Posts: 996
From:sheridan, wy
Registered: Aug 2003

posted 08-20-2003 11:15 PM         

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You could try giving cleo a little more food. Some cats eat more than others. Maybe she has a high metabolism and needs more food. Although it does sound more psychological to me.
It might help, unless she started gaining too much weight.

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Posts: 85
From:Hamilton, ON, Canada
Registered: Jul 2003

posted 08-21-2003 04:54 AM         

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We use Natural Choice Complete Care for Adults. It is rated as one of the best dry foods. They have a type for less active cats that I wil try but here is the breakdown for the adult brand.

crude Protein 33% Crude Fat 19% Crude Fiber 4% Moistue 10% Ash 6.75% Linoleic Acid 4% Zinc 250 mg/kg Vit E 250 IU/kg ASorbic Acid 50 mg/kg.

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