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posted 05-07-2003 05:47 PM         

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Please forgive the length, this takes some explaining to help with the issue.

Three years ago just after I was married, my husband and I got a male siamese (6 months old at the time). He was very playful and is a rather LARGE cat (not in the fat sense). At the time we worked hard to help make sure that he was careful when playing (with big claws he had an easy time mauling the arm of anyone who happend to be holding the toy he was playing with.) but he still had a slightly vindictive attitude - If you did something he didn't 'approve of' he would leap up and latch on to an arm or leg, delivering a rather nasty bite.
When our daughter was born we were very worried about his reaction to her - but he surprised us. Upon meeting her for the first time, he licked her hair and then became (for the past year and a half) the sweetest feline alive. She could pull his whiskers (an action that has always brought swift intervention on our part) and he would sit and purr. We've never stopped being careful about him though, since he is still very playful, and even though he has been oddly careful to keep his claws from scratching, especially when playing with our daughter, I have worried that she would be hurt. He stays in the rest of the house at night so he can't climb on her when she sleeps, and they have never been left alone or unsupervised.
Recently though he has become less and less tolerant of her, with an occasional 'correctional' nip (never leaving marks) and then more recently 'gentle' scratches when she does something he doesn't approve of. About three days ago, she was playing and accidentally stepped on his tail (something she has done before and gotten merely an odd look from him) and he pounced on her, knocing her to the floor, and bit her arm hard enough to draw blood. (If it had not been for the thickness of the shirt she was wearing I think the wound would have been deep enough to need stiches - thankfully the shirt kept it down to a scratch.) We interviened immediatly, but the event was so fast and shocking to us that I have been horrified.
In the beginning he treated her much like a mother cat and a kitten - he was very gentle, and has slowly worked his way up to being 'correctional' - I think he has decided that she has grown up, and is now 'responsible' for her actions. This worries me terribly, since he is returning to his vindictive nature, and further incidents have forced us to keep him isolated from her.
I'm not happy with the situation, since I know that if it continues he will suffer from lack of attention and feel rejected by being isolated. But I can't allow him to play loose with my 1 1/2 year old in the house for fear of another attack.
I don't blame him for biting her, since it is only his natural instinct to protect himself - but I can't allow him to hurt my daughter.
I'm at a loss for options, and could use any suggestions for dealing with him that anyone (who has made it this far, lol) can provide! I dont' want to have to give him up to someone else, but if the issue cannot be resolved, we are considering screening for a more suitable guardian for him.
Thank you for any help you can give.
Sundri

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posted 05-07-2003 10:43 PM         

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Siamese cats do have a mind of their own, and are very strong willed. This is not to criticise them, as I think they're adorable, but in your case I can well see your problem.

I can see how much you love him, and want the best for him. But I do think you've got it right when you say he considers your little girl to be grown up now, and possibly a competitor for affections.

From my experience (and hopefully there are some here with better ideas) I doubt you will change his behaviour by now. And you have to protect your child, which must be nerve-wracking for you.OK his reaction to the trodden tail might well be a one-off for most cats - but his other unpredictable behaviour seems to be set into a pattern.

If it were me, and I could find a really good home for him, I would do so. It's really a no-win situation at the moment, as you're right, isolating him and so on will only compound the problem.

I don't say this lightly, and if anyone has better solutions that would be great. But if you can get him into a good home, maybe get yourselves a gentle puss, all may be for the best.

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posted 05-08-2003 08:18 AM         

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I am afraid I am in agreement with WoofDoggy on this one.
With Siamese being the way they are they can make wonderful pets but since they are of a definite personality and need lots of attention I think it would be unfair on both your daughter and your cat to keep him.
Sad as it is its probably for the best, he can go to a home where he will get all the attention he needs and you won't have to worry about your daughter anymore.

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posted 05-08-2003 11:41 AM         

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Thank you so much for your replies. I have been fighting with this issue myself, and I haven't wanted to accept the only answer that keeps coming back up.
When we first got him we tried everything we could think of to 'cure' his vindictive streak, but nothing helped. He is an exceptionally strong-willed cat. He can be such a sweetheart at times, but then turn around and be a little grouch, lol. Not a super bad thing when we were by ourselves, but awful for having a small child around.
I think we'll all be a bit heartbroken for a while, we all love him, despite his mean streak, but I can't think of any other way to resolve the situation and still have it be within their best interestes.
We'll most likely start screening potentials until we find someone suitable for him.
Thank you for your help.
Sundri

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posted 05-08-2003 07:36 PM           

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I just read your post and would like to share my experience.

I had a unexpected episode happen just yesterday with one of my male cats. He is of the siberian breed and are known to be very loyal to there owners. I can pick this big baby up and hold him in my arms just like a baby with no problems except what happen yesterday when I put him down on the front. When I put him on the floor Tom Socks latched his mouth and claws into my hand and drew blood and wouldn't let go until I yelled at the top of my lungs.

This had never happen before and to my surprise can't figure why he did this. Tom would sometimes act if he was going to bite but would just start licking my hand at times in the past. I have to say I was ticked to the tee at him and today my hand is swollen and sore.

I have had Tom Socks 4 years now.

When this happen the first thing that crossed my mind was what if that had been a childs hand?

Since that happen I am very Red Alert! When I go to pet him now. Tom Socks is neutered and taken very good care of but this was a shock yesterday.

I think for the safety of your child find a good owner for your kitty. It will save you a lot of heartache in the future.

Mac

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posted 05-09-2003 03:06 PM           

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Hi
I also have a toddler and two cats, one of which is a siamese and has a nasty/quick temper. I was very worried about both cats reactions when I brought home the baby. To my surprise, they both reacted better than expected. The non-siamese even has taken on a protective role in the last couple weeks, especially when strangers are around - although I still keep a watchful eye on her. However, knowing that the siamese consideres me her "pet" and becomes very jealous at the drop of a hat, I have kept her away from the baby at all times. She watches the commotion from a distance and keeps out of arms reach from him. I also make every effort at giving both cats as much attention as they had before (a big job now with a toddler in the picture!). I also put "soft paws" on both of them to ensure that if there is any scratching going on, there won't be any marks. (Soft paws are sheaths that go over their claws. An alternative to de-clawing). Both cats have reacted well to them and haven't resorted to biting as an alternative.

This is just my experience. I can understand wanting to protect your child, but if you don't want to give away your cat, maybe think about using sheath covers for his claws. As for biting, I can't think of an alternative for that. However, having grown up with horses since I was young, I discovered it was not smart to walk behind a horse after being kicked once. After that I avoided its rear for a long time! Children learn fast and after a nip along with continous discouragement from you, maybe your toddler will learn not to bother the cat. Just a thought. Good luck!

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posted 05-09-2003 03:14 PM         

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Cathleen,
Thanks for your suggestions! We've tried 'soft paws' but weren't able to get them ON that cat, lol, unfortunatly we would have to fully sedate him to accomplish it (something we really don't want to do), he doesn't seem to like having his claws touched. (He's finicky even for a siamese, lol.) The biting has been the worst problem though. He is still gentle with the claws, and prefers to bite if he is going to do anything.
The biggest problem I have is that he is slightly unpredictable as to what he will bite over. One minute he is fine, and the next something just torked him so you have a big gash. He's a sweetheart to me, and hasn't actually BITTEN anyone enough to make it bleed until he pounced on my daughter. He has nipped her before, but up till now has been fairly benign about his 'punishments' with her.
We're still trying to find any other solution to the problem though, since we would all be heartbroken if we have to find another home for him.
Thanks for your help!
Sundri

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posted 05-09-2003 03:28 PM         

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Mac:
Our Hazel can be something like that too. Sometimes cats just decide that they didn't want to be picked up, and decide to punish you for having done so AFTER it's over. I would have to say that it sounds like that was the case.
You might keep an eye on him though, since as cats get older sometimes they have problems that we can't see, such as arthritis, or dislocated joints. Then when you pick them up or put them down, it hurts and they decide that somehow it was your fault, so you get a nip.
Blessings
Sundri

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posted 05-09-2003 05:36 PM           

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Hey Sundri,

I'm really sorry to hear about all the trouble your cat has been into, but I've always heard that Siamese can be a pain in the butt. My Uncle had one and he called it "Meanes" because he was sooooooooooooo mean!
We weren't even a loud to go no where near it because he would try to hurt us (and we were just kids back then)! So I havn't been to keen to Siamese since then. My uncle had to keep him in his room all the time until he died because of his bad behavior. And he lived a very long time!

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posted 05-09-2003 10:48 PM           

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Hi Again:

I know siamese have a bad rap for biting and being mean - mine will put me in my place very quickly when I step out of line. But I also wanted to point out I have known some very docile siamese cats - 3 in total of the 6 I have come across. Ok so that is half of the siamese cats I have come across .

I just wanted to point that out to people who aren't familiar and want to tag all siamese as grumpy, ill tempered cats. The same would go for any other 'mean-tempered' breed whether it be cat or dog or other. Sorry, this had absolutly nothing to do with this post. Just didn't want people to assume all siamese were mean, and even those that have a mean streak - its not all the time..... just seems to be when they want to make a point

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posted 05-10-2003 03:18 PM         

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Tonya & Cathleen,
Hazel, believe it or not, is actually only half siamese, lol. The other half of him should be tabby, but other then his tiny-tabby sounding meow, he's all siamese in looks and personality.
The cat I had prior to Hazel was full siamese, a beautiful short-haired seal-point named Oscar (I got him when I was 2 years old). He was the sweetest most lovable cat I have ever come across. He was playful his whole life, and would love you to pieces if you were his friend, or hate you forever if you did something to hurt someone he liked. He passed away from kidney failure three months after I was married, at the ripe old kitty age of 19. My husband and I 'joked' that he waited until he knew I had someone else to 'take care of me' before he let go. I still mourn him, but Hazel has been good company and it helps. We're still exploring other options as to how do handle him right now.
We did let him play with Rowyn today for a while. He sat in my lap and I brushed his fur (he is himalayan(sp) so his fur needs constant brushing, lol. He doesn't seem to mind) while she got to pet him. They both seemed quite content to just be around eachother, but I am still too concerned about his newly returned vindictive streak to let it put me off guard.
Blessings,
Sundri

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