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Author Topic:   schutzhund? good or bad?
benny boy
Member

Posts: 392
From:lewisville, texas, united states
Registered: Oct 2003

posted 03-11-2004 07:46 AM     Click Here to See the Profile for benny boy     Edit/Delete Message
i was just wondering what you guys thought about schutzhund. for those of you who dont know what it is here are some links http://www.dvgamerica.com/whatis.html http://www.germanshepherddog.com/ http://www.leerburg.com/schusa.htm

it was originally designed for GSDs, but lots of different breeds compete in it now, including the apbt. it pretty much looks like attack training, except for the part of it where they do tracking and obediance work. i don't know why the general public would need a dog that will attack on command. i was just wondering where you guys stand on the subject.

[This message has been edited by benny boy (edited 03-11-2004).]

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Deus
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Posts: 136
From:CT.
Registered: Nov 2003

posted 03-11-2004 08:49 AM     Click Here to See the Profile for Deus     Edit/Delete Message

Schutzhund is really a sport more then attack training from what I’ve seen, in fact some experts feel it lacks real world benefits as the dog is trained to bite the sleeve and only the sleeve.

In real life the bad guy isn’t going to stand there and make a proper presentation of the sleeve for the dog to bite.

Mind you I have only seen 2 trials so far. but from talking to breeders and a few trainers most use schutzhund as a proving tool. To test and show off that there dogs are true working dogs plus its a lot of fun.

It show's the dogs intelligent, Curriage, Athletic Ability, Protective Instincs and Control under stress.

In my humble opinion a Schutzhund, Ring Sport or PSA trained dog is ten times safer to be around then a dog that’s been tied up in the back yard all its life because the high end sport dog must be proven both Capable & Stable in order to compete.

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cricket
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Posts: 51
From:Los Angeles, CA. U.S.A.
Registered: Dec 2003

posted 03-11-2004 09:02 AM     Click Here to See the Profile for cricket     Edit/Delete Message
Here's a friend of mines web site. He's a schutzhund trainer. www.k9coach.com

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benny boy
Member

Posts: 392
From:lewisville, texas, united states
Registered: Oct 2003

posted 03-11-2004 09:15 AM     Click Here to See the Profile for benny boy     Edit/Delete Message
thanks guys, i didn't really know. what's it called when the trainer is in the full protective suit? is that the same thing or is that attack training?

[This message has been edited by benny boy (edited 03-11-2004).]

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Deus
Member

Posts: 136
From:CT.
Registered: Nov 2003

posted 03-11-2004 09:23 AM     Click Here to See the Profile for Deus     Edit/Delete Message
Well, Schutzhund is sleeve only but the decoy may have a full body suite on for added protection (just in case)

Ring Sport is full body and the dog may bite where ever they want.

I'm not really sure what you mean by Attack Training. No trainer worth his salt would dream of starting bite work befor advanced OB
For oviuos reasons thats not smart.

Even PP (Personal Protection) trainers start with OB first.

[This message has been edited by Deus (edited 03-11-2004).]

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True_Pits
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Posts: 373
From:TX, USA
Registered: Oct 2003

posted 03-11-2004 10:06 AM     Click Here to See the Profile for True_Pits     Edit/Delete Message
Its not attack training, its a sport and many of the dogs would flunk out of any kind of real attack situations. They see no sleeve so don't know where they are supposed to bite. It also consist of OB and Tracking. I think its an ok activty, but I like French Ring better. With Belgian Malinois. If you are going to do something like French Ring get a breed suited for it not APBT. Some APBTs can't even do it because they fail to understand that biting the sleeve is ok. The ones who do only think of it as a game and are safe/stable dogs. Unstable dogs wouldn't be used and both Schutzhund and French Ring require a lot of OB Training. But still get a breed thats meant to do the job from working lines you'll be much better off.

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benny boy
Member

Posts: 392
From:lewisville, texas, united states
Registered: Oct 2003

posted 03-11-2004 12:15 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for benny boy     Edit/Delete Message
when i said "attack training" i meant the kind of thing where the trainer will say a word and the dog will go nuts, and attack whoever.......if you haven't noticed im not very educated on this subject.

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Deus
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Posts: 136
From:CT.
Registered: Nov 2003

posted 03-11-2004 02:38 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for Deus     Edit/Delete Message
Well believe me im no expert.
I found this site about a week ago it has a lot of info on the subject. http://www.leerburg.com/schusa.htm

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Deus
Member

Posts: 136
From:CT.
Registered: Nov 2003

posted 03-11-2004 03:39 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for Deus     Edit/Delete Message
What is Schutzhund?
Reprinted from the book, "Schutzhund Theory & Training Methods", By S. Barwig & S. Hilliard, Howell.

The word "Schutzhund" exactly translated from German to English means "Protection Dog." This literal translation is somewhat misleading, as there is much more to Schutzhund than just protection.

Today, in the United States, Schutzhund is a fast-growing, competitive sport. In Europe, SchH (the abbreviation for Schutzhund) has been a popular sport since the early 1900's. Schutzhund was originally a test to determine which German Shepherds were quality dogs for breeding purposes in Germany. Today, SchH is that and much, much more. It still gives us the ability to test our dogs to determine if the temperament is correct and to also view their working ability. It is also a highly competitive sport which is maintained by the efforts of teamwork between the handler and his/her dog. Schutzhund is designed for the dogs with working ability. However, it is not restricted to any particular group or breed of dog. The United Schutzhund Clubs of America, primarily a German Shepherd organization, does recognize all breeds capable of doing SchH work.

Schutzhund training and showing involves three phases: Tracking, Obedience and Protection. There are three SchH levels one can achieve with his/her dog: SchH I (considered the novice level), SchH II (the intermediate), and SchH Ill (the advanced level). Each handler and his dog start out in each phase with 100 points. From there, points are to be deducted by the presiding judge according to the point system, providing the dog/handler team errors. A total perfect score is 300. In order for a person and his dog to achieve any one of the SchH degrees, the team together must achieve at least 70 points or better in tracking and obedience and at least 80 points or better in protection. If these minimum scores are not received, a SchH degree cannot be awarded to the participating dog/handler team. The requirements that a dog/handler team must fulfill become progressively more difficult from the SchH I level to the SchH III level.

Tracking is a development of a dog's natural abilities and instincts. It helps to build confidence within the dog. The dog must use his nose in locating a track laid either by his handler or a stranger and also have the ability to discover various articles dropped along the track. The track length, the age of the track, the number of articles and the size of the articles depend on the level of the SchH degree.

Obedience makes a dog a more enjoyable companion and also makes him more reliable in everyday situations. SchH obedience judges a handler and his dog as a team. The team is required to do various exercises, depending on the SchH degree one is attempting to earn.

Protection, as trained for Schutzhund requires that the dog have a reliable temperament and show courage without viciousness. It is an advanced and complex training wherein the dog must make his own decision and use his judgment. The "bad guy," known as the agitator or helper in the sport, is required to wear protective pants and a special sleeve covered with burlap for the dog to bite. The dog must bite correctly or he will lose points. The dog must be trained to release his bite. A dog can fail if he consistently does not release his bite when commanded.

If you are interested in Schutzhund, ask around you! Every handler and owner is proud of every title his dog has achieved and can tell you what a feeling of accomplishment it is to earn a Schutzhund title with his/her dog

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