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Author Topic:   Help! cheeko got his sister pregnant
cheeko'smommy
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Posts: 46
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Registered: Jan 2004

posted 03-08-2004 11:47 AM     Click Here to See the Profile for cheeko'smommy     Edit/Delete Message
My baby Cheeko got his sister pregnant. When i got him from his bad owners i told my sister that his ex owners still had pups so she went to them and bought a female pup from them and she took cheeko to play with his sister angel and my sister left them alone in the living room for the nigh and we just found out that angel is pregnant and the father is her brother. cheeko and angel are 7 months old my sister wants to obourt the pups but i don't want her to but i'm not sure what could happen with pups from the same litter having pups. Should we obourt the pups or wat i'm clueless with what to do help me.

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charmedagain
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Posts: 790
From:uk
Registered: Aug 2003

posted 03-08-2004 12:00 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for charmedagain     Edit/Delete Message
Hi at 7months old i think your sister is right in wanting to abort the litter.
Angel is not old enough nor mentally mature for raising a litter and the problems that will arise due to her being so young.

If you persuade your siter not to abort are you going to take the pups and hand feed them should the worst happen to Angel or if she will not look after the litter which usually happens with very young mothers.

My advice is to let your sister go ahead and abort the litter and i think she should have her spayed at the same time so this does not happen again.

This close of breeding is risky and is only ever done by breeders that know the full genetic make up of both parents and know if there is any defects in the line.

Since they are are brother and sister the chances of genetic defects could be high as you dont know the history of both dogs.

Like i stated the kindest and most caring thing to do is abort the litter before something goes wrong she is only a baby.

(Professional breeder of German Shepherds)
mike

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benny boy
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Posts: 392
From:lewisville, texas, united states
Registered: Oct 2003

posted 03-08-2004 12:34 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for benny boy     Edit/Delete Message
it would be stupid not to get an abortion. your dogs are too young and the pups will be inbred.

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bullylove1
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Posts: 173
From:Canada
Registered: Feb 2004

posted 03-08-2004 12:35 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for bullylove1     Edit/Delete Message
Definately abort the litter. At 7 months there are way too many complication that could come from having these pups. There is a great chance of complications from birth and losing the mother. Also have the mother spayed right away. If I were you, I would also spay cheeko. He is at the right age to do it, and I know my vet said it only gets more expensive the older and heavier they get.
Let us know what you decide.

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Samsintentions
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From:Columbus, Tx ,USA
Registered: Dec 2003

posted 03-08-2004 12:58 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for Samsintentions     Edit/Delete Message
you really need to get them aborted asap. At that young of an age, it could kill her or seriously injur her. Not to mention the imbreeding thats inevidably going to show up in the puppies. If you let her have the puppies, not only are you taking the risk of seriously injuring your dog, and possibly killing her, but putting the puppies through endless suffering as well. Braindamage, heart and organ problems are among the most common birth defects in inbred animals. Not to meantion the deformities that arise as well.

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cheeko'smommy
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posted 03-08-2004 03:53 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for cheeko'smommy     Edit/Delete Message
Well listening to the four of you i've decided to call my sis and tell her to go to the vet when she can to abort the litter but she doesn't want to spay angel and i'm not so sure i want to get cheeko fixed because his grandparents were in show biz and he has a good show biz look and i'm thinking about breeding him when he's around 14 months old is that a good age?

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MyPetTherapyDog
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Posts: 157
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Registered: Jan 2004

posted 03-08-2004 09:07 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for MyPetTherapyDog     Edit/Delete Message
Why don't you want to spay him?
Do you have papers on him to make him show quality?
There are sooooooooooo many pitbulls being euthanized across america. Do yourself and your dog a favor and get him fixed.
you won't be sorry.

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Deus
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Posts: 136
From:CT.
Registered: Nov 2003

posted 03-08-2004 09:07 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for Deus     Edit/Delete Message
So thats what happens when you leav a female in full blown heat alone with an intact male?

[This message has been edited by Deus (edited 03-08-2004).]

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Deus
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From:CT.
Registered: Nov 2003

posted 03-08-2004 09:13 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for Deus     Edit/Delete Message
n/m

[This message has been edited by Deus (edited 03-08-2004).]

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cheeko'smommy
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Posts: 46
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Registered: Jan 2004

posted 03-09-2004 06:32 AM     Click Here to See the Profile for cheeko'smommy     Edit/Delete Message
i know that there are so many unwanted dogs out there but i have about ten friends that are very good with dogs that want a pup from cheeko and of course i have to do backround checks to see if these people are as responsible as i know them to be. And i'm not a byb so i will be giving away these pups to responsible people not people who just wants a cute pup because it's just a new trend that's a stupid reason to get a dog. So i'm going to talk it over with my sister. Oh! i almost forgot my sister went to aborted the litter today and get angel fixed.

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bullylove1
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Posts: 173
From:Canada
Registered: Feb 2004

posted 03-09-2004 09:25 AM     Click Here to See the Profile for bullylove1     Edit/Delete Message
Good for your sis. I amglad you decided to do this. To be quite honest, and I know you don't want to hear this but please don't breed your doggie. I read that in 2002 1 million Pits (only pits) were euthanized in the States. HOLY CRAP! That is a lot of death. Its an epidemic, and you would only be contributing to it. Something like 1 in 3 dogs in shelters/rescues are purebred. Please visit these sites and see hoe many Pits there are that REALLY need forever homes. They all get basic obedience training, but they encourage you to continue after you adopt. Look at these first, please. www.pbrc.net www.badrap.org www.pitbullrescue.com www.spindletoppitbullrefuge.org www.outofthepits.org www.gremlinpitbullrescue.com
Here are just a few of the many pit bull rescues. This doesn't even show the Pit Bulls that stay in animal shelters. These rescues are soley for Pit Bulls. Just look at how gorgeous some of these dogs are, and how a large percentage of them will stay in the rescue forever. That is not a home.
I know you are going to make your own decisions, but I hope that after you look at these sites you will change your mind. I know I did. I was going to breed my little girl, and now all I can think is how stupid I was for ever wanting to add to this epidemic.
Anyways, keep us posted with what you decide to do.
Good luck

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True_Pits
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From:TX, USA
Registered: Oct 2003

posted 03-09-2004 09:55 AM     Click Here to See the Profile for True_Pits     Edit/Delete Message
Unless he is breeding quality then he should be fixed. Why would you consider taking up breeding if you don't have any knowledge or research about it.

You claim

quote:
And i'm not a byb so i will be giving away these pups to responsible people

You are claiming not to be a BYB yet you want to breed a dog when it is only 14 months old and just because his GRANDPARENTS were in show biz? If you haven't researched breeding, your dogs lines, proven your dog breed worthy, done health testing, and have a adequete room to keep pups to continue your breeding program then your not a responsible breeder, you are a BYB breeding pets. You say they will go to responsible people, these people are your friends. Thats well and all but how many of these people will decided to breed their pets creating more dogs and so on and so on. Just because you give pups away doesn't mean you are doing the righ thing. I can't speak for you, but every BYB I have ever met claims their dogs go to good homes and never end up unwanted or in shelters. Whether they sell them or give them away. I hear so many of them claiming this, claiming their dogs are perfectly healthy, great pets, and that they would even take a pup/dog back, all these are empty words and they never do anything they say/said they would do. If you truly have TEN friends who are interested in getting an APBT then send them to a rescue or shelter if they are just looking for a pet, that could be TEN PITS LIVES SAVED.

quote:
i'm not so sure i want to get cheeko fixed because his grandparents were in show biz and he has a good show biz look and i'm thinking about breeding him when he's around 14 months old is that a good age?

Just because a dogs grandparents may have one some shows, or even become CH themselves if no reason to believe their grand pups are of the same quality. Just because a dog has a nice pedigree is no excuse for breeding. That is how you end up with dogs from a seemyling good line with a nice pedigree being substandard or even poor quality. Because of paper breeders. A showbred female I had full of CH, ACE, CH/ACE and some match winners. This was no reason to breed her when she herself was bought as a pet and has faults. So the best thing to do was spay her. A pedigree only tells us what the dog has descended from and what the dog could be, but not all of the dog will meet up to the standards of those they are bred down from.

Under no circumstances should you breed a 14 month old. At least wait for a dog to mature. You can't even get OFA certs until he is 2yrs.

You said he has good show biz look, but he is only 7 months that could easily change with maturity. Dogs can develop fualts with age. Has he been asessed by a judge who told you he has a "show biz" look or been shown in conformation events recently?

This is all something to think about and take serious consideration of. Puppy over population is a big deal and if you know your friends are responsible and deserving of a dog/pup then they would be equipped for a rescue dog and have no trouble getting one. Instead of breeding more dogs for pets. I hope you understand, I'm not being rude about it. Your sister made the best decision in aborting the litter and spaying her female.

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bullylove1
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From:Canada
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posted 03-09-2004 10:03 AM     Click Here to See the Profile for bullylove1     Edit/Delete Message
Well put True_Pits, you always say it like such a professional. I have tendencies to ramble on and on......

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cheeko'smommy
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posted 03-09-2004 11:53 AM     Click Here to See the Profile for cheeko'smommy     Edit/Delete Message
i see where ur coming from true_pits that your trying to get through to me but not being rude about it in the same way. I looked at some of those sites and so i've decided i'm not going to breed cheeko i'm goin 2 get him fixed next weekend if it wasn't for bullylove1 i probably still would've bred him. So i'm going to tell my friends to go to a rescue group and yes true pits a judge told me cheeko would be a good show biz dog when i brought him to see his grandpa in a contest.

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bullylove1
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From:Canada
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posted 03-09-2004 03:01 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for bullylove1     Edit/Delete Message
cheeko,thank you! You have made my day girl! Good luck to you and your little man. I would love to see pics if you have any.
Take care.
Leslie

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MyPetTherapyDog
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posted 03-09-2004 08:07 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for MyPetTherapyDog     Edit/Delete Message
GREAT CHOICE!!
CONGRATULATIONS ON USING YOUR BRAINS!!!
I WISH MORE PEOPLE WOULD STOP AND THINK LIKE YOU HAVE DONE!!!!!!!!

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Jas

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Registered: May 2003

posted 03-10-2004 12:35 AM     Click Here to See the Profile for Jas     Edit/Delete Message
I just want to post the link Jamiya posted in the All Dogs forum. http://www.sonic.net/~cdlcruz/GPCC/library/coleart.htm I'm getting at the part about friends, family etc all wanting a pup. It is not uncommon that people feel differently when the dog is bred and puppies are on the way - people tend to back out of these things.

I agree with a lot of what True Pits has said, especially with regards to health testing and not breeding until after 2 years of age. I do want to add that cheeko'smommy was asking (which I think is responsible) if 14 months was a good age to breed. Cheeko, no one can tell you not to breed and as you said your dog is from show lines (true this doesn't always mean anything) - but it might help if you could discuss this with your dog's breeder. Perhaps the breeder can assess your dog, and you can sit down and talk about it together.

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Mr.Pitbull5
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From:Danville,VA USA
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posted 03-10-2004 01:33 AM     Click Here to See the Profile for Mr.Pitbull5     Edit/Delete Message
I myself am going to breed my dog. But I've gotten info from some of the best pit breeders in america.But I won't sell my pups I'm goin to keep them for me and my family. But I think it's just morally wrong to get rid of his "boyz". Think if you were a man and for some reason you couldn't talk would you want someone to take you to get your nuts chopped off,I don't think so. Just do some research and you and your dog will be fine. But make sure the female is in 100% physical and mental condition.

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charmedagain
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From:uk
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posted 03-10-2004 04:10 AM     Click Here to See the Profile for charmedagain     Edit/Delete Message
Mr.Pitbull5, There is alot of men that go and have a vasectomy so that they dont make anymore babies so to be honest using a human get his N**s chopped off was a lame statement.

People Spay/Nueter there pets to avoid unwanted puppies and as its been pointed on in numurous posts there is alot of pits put to sleep everyday.

(Just do some research and you and your dog will be fine. But make sure the female is in 100% physical and mental condition.)

the male and female need to be Hip,Eye,Heart checked Breeding an animal that is not of show quality or to better the breed is irresponsible. So saying that to make sure the female is in physical and mental condition means nothing some females will never be mothers due to having no maternal instincts and end up with abandoned or neglected puppies.


Yes we can not tell someone to breed there dogs but unless everything is researched and i dont mean looking round the net for a couple of days researching can take years to find all the relevant information on the breed, Genetics, Breeding problems,Whelping problems,Birth Defects and so on.

There is no gurantee that he is a fertile dog there is no gurantee that the female used would carry her puppies to term there is way to many risks of breeding without doing years of research and reading up on all the problems that can happen to the mother and litter during pregnancy and during and after the birth reading up on this helps people decide wether they are willing to put there dogs through it.
Also the risk of the female turning on the male during mating and a fight breaking out is high and there is where damage comes to both dogs as even though the female is held so not to pull the male around she will attack her owner to get at the male to get him off her.

So before any breeding is done a hell of research, talking to breeders of that breed talking to the vets and so on then breeding should not be done by a novice.

Just my opinion.

Mike

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Samsintentions
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From:Columbus, Tx ,USA
Registered: Dec 2003

posted 03-10-2004 09:08 AM     Click Here to See the Profile for Samsintentions     Edit/Delete Message
That was a pretty lame statement....

I'm sorry, but just how do you plann on keeping your males from breeding bitches inheat? DOyou realize the lengths that dogs will go to to get to a bitch?? It's unbelievable.

So your downing someone to get their dog fixed, yet you yourself have just as lame an excuse to not get yours done.....
THink about it. No offence, but practice what you preach. And no its not just the "talking to breeders." its Having the MALE checked too. He may very well be carrying deadly and horrible diseases. or Genetic defects.
Personally, If your dog has a litter of 10, how are you planning on keeping them all?? Are you going to allow them to run free with their "woman, and man hoods"? That will do nothing but cause inbreeding and then we're back to the original post then aren't we?

Perhaps you know what your doing, I'm just a bit confused as to your posts, sounds like you don't, and I really hope you do your research first, and realize, its not immoral to desex a pet, but safer, healthier, and much better for the population in general.

[This message has been edited by Samsintentions (edited 03-10-2004).]

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charmedagain
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From:uk
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posted 03-10-2004 02:56 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for charmedagain     Edit/Delete Message
Well said sam exactly what i was thinking but you worded it better

mike

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loves-da-pits
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Posts: 43
From:Phoenix, AZ, USA
Registered: Feb 2004

posted 03-10-2004 03:43 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for loves-da-pits     Edit/Delete Message
Hi! Hope I'm not beeing a pest, but I'm really interested in reading the posts on this message board.I just want to say that I am a true believer in spaying and neutering all pets, dogs, cats,rabbits, etc. I live in Phoenix,AZ where I have worked with animal rescue, and have seen the hundreds of animal put down due to over population.I've witnessed in our Maricopa County Animal Rabies Control Center, mother dogs, cat and litters being put down which really broke my heart. They have to put the MaMa dog down first because she is so traumatized when they try to take her pups. There's reports of litters of pups tied up in plastic bags and tossed in dumpsters. It's even been known that people drive down the freeways and toss unwanted pets out their windows. Rewards are offered for finding these people, but it just doesn't seem to result in finding them. But that's not what this post is about. There will always be doggies and kitties, thank God, or we wouldn't have ours. Please, always take time out when making an important decision to breed to have more puppies and kittens and what the future may hold for these animals.

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lldvlshangel
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From:Barre
Registered: Mar 2004

posted 03-16-2004 07:18 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for lldvlshangel     Edit/Delete Message
It is sad...but the right thing to do is to abort those pups. Most of the agressive pitts out there that gives all the good ones bad reputations are imbred. Imbreding pitts like dobies ca lead to a massive amount of problems when they start growing up. They will most likely have bad temperments which will lead to fear biting, their brain could grow to fast and too big for their skulls and it will put pressure on their brains making them go literally insane, they will have numerous health problems. Make the right desicion and save alot of people from alot and very expensive problems, nd abort those pups.

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GinaH
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From:Paducah, Ky USA
Registered: Jan 2004

posted 03-17-2004 04:26 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for GinaH     Edit/Delete Message
lldvlshangel:
I do not mean to be rude, But you are driving me nuts! You have been very misinformed about the true nature of pit bulls most all of the info you submit is BULL! Such as the following:
_____________________________________________

(Quote)
Most of the agressive pitts out there that gives all the good ones bad reputations are imbred. Imbreding pitts like dobies ca lead to a massive amount of problems when they start growing up. They will most likely have bad temperments which will lead to fear biting, their brain could grow to fast and too big for their skulls and it will put pressure on their brains making them go literally insane, they will have numerous health problems.
_____________________________________________

If you want to try and help anyone manage their dogs you really should educate yourself first. You should start with reading the replys posted by True Pits on one of your post entitled: Pitts are NOT Vicious by nature...Oh and if you had done any research on the breed you would know Pit Bull is spelled with one "T".
Have a Good day.

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True_Pits
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Posts: 373
From:TX, USA
Registered: Oct 2003

posted 03-17-2004 06:25 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for True_Pits     Edit/Delete Message
Driving me nuts too!!! lol This post is filled with more ignorance than the previous. Such as:
quote:
their brain could grow to fast and too big for their skulls and it will put pressure on their brains making them go literally insane

If you did any research at all you would know that is a bullshit myth and it will likely be passed onto the next "Killer breed", as it was said about Dobies when they were the most feared breed.
quote:
Most of the agressive pitts out there that gives all the good ones bad reputations are imbred.

For everyone's sake (although I'm sure most know) the dogs giving the Pit Bulls a bad name are usually not inbred, how can you even state that when most the dogs biting are either not registered (having no pedigree), registered but still BYB, scatterbred, breed from aggressive lines (which are probably hereditary chemical imblances), trained to be aggressive (poorly bred dogs, hardly ever inbred though, bought by some irresponsible person) being used as a guard dog, dogs spoiled who get the small dog complex (a normally submissive breed, but will dominate owners when raised this way in some cases be snappy like most small dogs are). Look at all the dogs biting and being put down for biting, most even with pedigrees are still *unknown* what lines they come from because when people take their dogs to be put down or they have to have them destroyed they don't report what bloodlines the dog is from and state if they are inbred.
What you are stating would mean that my dogs should be aggressive with all these crazy problems and all the many dogs from this line of about 50yrs of breeding should be this way when none are. That doesn't really look to good for your side.
quote:
They will most likely have bad temperments which will lead to fear biting

Fear biting is caused by lack of socialization, especially when a shy dog is acquired and the owner fails to socialize it and build its confidence. Not from inbreeding. How dumb can you get. Fear biting is also caused by abuse, when owners hit puppies to train them, or just straight up beat them. Then they learn to fear people and will bite out of fear trying to protect themselves.
quote:
they will have numerous health problems.

Oh really is that so? Like what? Mine don't have any, neither do the others I have seen. Well otherwise they wouldn't have ever been bred if they had health problems.
Everybody check out these awesome inbred dogs. You can see some really nice ones http://www.coldsteelpits.com/coldsteelmainpage.htm
CH Gigi & CH Hawk & CH Igor who is GR CH Boogieman to his daughter.
and these http://browndog10.20m.com/
Some of Villines dogs include ADBA CH and ACE dogs In good temperament health and appearence of course. Villines' CH Just-A-Jezebel who is from their CH A/A I Sylver dog bred to his daughter, and the double bred(1/2 sibling breeding) CH A/A I Sylver littermates ACE Up N Atem, CH Hubba Bubba, and ACE Super Nova who is going to be CH real soon.
These happen to be some of the best breeders to ever grace the breed.Sorry but these people only breed quality dogs, inbred, line bred or outcrossed.
Many great dogs are inbred. Ever here of Bailey's Bingo 4times Red Boy in 4 gen and once more in the 5th gen. Bingo produced many great producer, tight bred dogs often make good brood stock. Boyles' CH Bobby Jr (triplebred Bolio), CH Gator ROM(triplebred Jeep), his daughter CH MIss Gator 7xs Jeep in 4 gens, CH Rascal ROM (double bred Eli Jr), Garner's Angel (Dbl bred Chinaman), Hammonds' Vito (dbl bred CH Alligator), Carver's CH Tye (triplebred CH Ironhead-bred to his daughter Iron Lady who was out of his daughter Lady he produced with Miss Spike) and not to say that is a very small fraction of quality inbred dogs.
If the bull this crazy person was saying is true then the good percentage of APBTs would be aggressive, they would have been outlawed years ago, and there would be so many incedents today that nobody would want them around. Considering the huge amounts of APBTs are inbred, and all the great bloodlines are inbred, linebred, of course that only makes sense otherwise you wouldn't have a dog of any bloodline. If this stuff was actually real people would be being bitten right and left by these dogs.
Maybe this person is just a teenager or something, like the ones from the "Pitt in Heat$$" thread. Did daddy leave you home alone?? They can't even spell simple words like PIT or INBRED. Look what they put Pitt and imbred. Or maybe they are really an unhappy person who is jealous because they have scatterbred "pitts" and other people can actually name the bloodline(s) of their dog(s).

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cheeko'smommy
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From:
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posted 03-18-2004 03:34 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for cheeko'smommy     Edit/Delete Message
Well i haven't been on the site for a couple of days but i had a chance today and i read what lldvlshangel said and that just sounds retarted about what she said about their brains getting to big for there heads and i didn't really pay attention to her bullshit post. My sister got the litter aborted last weekend and we got angel and cheeko fixed.

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chickee
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From:Western Pennsylvania, USA
Registered: Dec 2003

posted 03-18-2004 04:19 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for chickee     Edit/Delete Message
ha ha ha...

Obviously lldvlshangel has some 'issues' OR he is just here to make jokes. Which one is it?

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True_Pits
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From:TX, USA
Registered: Oct 2003

posted 03-18-2004 07:12 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for True_Pits     Edit/Delete Message
I understand, sometimes I let things get to me too much. Its hard when people always seem to have their mouths open and ears closed. Sometimes I just get too upset or I don’t know how to make it more clear. In this thread it seems like it was made to help the breed image, but saying something that is not true is just bringing more misconception to the breed, it could even cause some one to stay away from a potentially good breeder. If what this person was saying was actually prevalent then the APBT would have been in a whole world of trouble before hand. Especially with the original red nosed dogs who were heavily inbred, and still continued on by say the likes of Hemphill himself. That’s where people even accuse him (or others) of tight inbreeding just for nose color which just isn’t true. Any 2 red noses bred together from any line gives you all red nose pups so there is no reason to inbred to lock this trait in. He bred bulldogs for certain, yes they were red noses so obviously he can only get red noses and wasn’t trying to breed for a specific color. Still his dogs would have been attacking right and left then, and the dogs his came from would have been the same. They would have never come this far because people would not have put up with these dogs for long, yet they are still here in fine temperament and health.
Yes I do get very upset when people make statements without truth behind it. What was said would take scientific research to prove, and its already been disproved, their brains do not grow bigger than there head. Oh and neither do the Doberman’s. And there jaws do not lock, this has been proven to. They don’t have a certain pounds of pressure either, this myth has never been proven. These are things made up by people looking to outlaw our breed.
To me bad breeding is bad breeding, no matter what the person is doing at the time. I never said inbreeding is the best thing to do and the only way to breed. I have seen the negative of it, but these same negatives could still exist without inbreeding because these people have bad dogs. I was told that this particular stud had a shady temperament, he was an ADBA CH, he was from a ½ sibling breeding. Same dam, she was out crossed to two different males. Then 2 of those were bred to one another. The person who told me this said he didn’t like the dog, it should be put down, and that he would never breed to it. He had breeding rights to this male, but refused to use him in his program and was upset that they wouldn’t cull the dog. Is this the product of inbreeding, or a “freak”, or bad environment? Could this female he was double bred off produce aggressive dogs? If so does this mean only those inbred off her would be like this or ANY dog off her has the potential to be this way? There are a lot of factors to consider when a dog bites and why it has become a biter. I can think of another male who bit several people before finally being shot, his dam was a 50/50 cross of 2 bloodlines, she was a great bitch she had produced well. In the hands of this person they had the strange of idea of what to breed her with. They bred her to a known biter not bred very well either. This male they produced together probably the only Pit Bull I know who has bitten so much, his owner wasn’t responsible either!! So why was he a biter? I think aggression can definitely be hereditary. Breeding these dogs they will produce more aggressive dogs, especially if its some type of chemical imbalance a mental problem. They can pass that on. I just found out 4 days ago a very decent dog had to be culled because he bit. I was mentioning him and told he had bitten so was culled. I had no idea, I don’t talk to the owners. The dog was line bred. His sire is from a ½ sibling breeding bred being bred to his ½ sister’s daughter. Did he bite because his sire was inbred? Who really knows why he bit, its hard to say. He has several other littermates, they haven’t bit anyone, they are not aggressive. These dogs are 10yrs old they are not aggressive or causing problems for the breed, they haven’t bit anyone. In other cases it can create problems. I know a dog, people aggressive. He is inbred son/daughter breeding. The sire bred to his daughter, the sire is from a bother/sister breeding. These temperament problems are caused somewhere in the line and inbreeding them has magnified them. Now the half sibling with the same sire brother/sister breeding. Instead bred to a completely different line and the line is very loose. Bad temperament still, never has acted aggressive though. But there is a possibility of biting, she is fearful. The poor temperaments must come from the sire, inbred or not you get bad dogs, inbreeding makes it worse. If they were good traits it would do the same thing. These dogs don’t represent the breed, should never be bred at any rate in any way.
I’m just wondering how you search for a dog, how you can find one. I know there are a lot of scatter bred dogs out there, some are just really loose but you can see the lines, regardless of if you couldn’t but knew what lines it came down from then the dog has inbreeding somewhere in the line, just about any dog does, including scatter bred. If you go to get a dog and it has 6 or 7 lines in it, it may not be inbred but obviously the dogs it came from are line bred and inbred to create the bloodlines. You can’t have bloodlines without creating, you can’t have foundation dogs with out using them. You have to have inbred or even line bred dogs to make an outcross. Yes you could get a dog that was Eli/Snooty/Hemphill/wilder/sorrells on tops and redboy/jeep/rascal/jocko/tuff town on bottom and breed that to a female who’s bolio/alligator/razoredge/and unknown, untraceable lines that you would have to seriously research to see where they came from. But what purpose would that serve? You have more chance of having temperament problems probably in this situation, maybe even some unknown health problems. How could this be bettering the breed.? It wouldn’t. You can’t predict what this breeding will make, even if the parents share a few common traits because you don’t know what’s going to come into play where like you do with inbreeding the traits you are trying to double up consistent production, and even line breeding works the same way you have a good idea of what your going to get. Much easier to breed better dogs.

I was told I’m the ignorant one and to do a little research. I’ve had experience and done extensive research because of the very fact I only want to have the best possible and do everything right. What I didn’t learn growing up, watching/talking to others, and from my own experience I’ve probably learned through research. In no books or other publications does it state that inbreeding causes APBTs head to grow to large for their skull and create pressure on their brains making them go insane. No breeder has ever stated this or believes this. It was said that this was supposed to be BYBs inbreeding. When BYBs inbred and they may get bad dogs, its not because the dogs brain grows too large for their heads.

I understand everyone has there opinions, but then there are facts. Some issues involve opinions, others fact. There are people trying to pass off their “opinion” or “beliefs” as facts. I could make something wild up too and say it as a fact. it’s an opinion with nothing behind it.

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GinaH
Member

Posts: 70
From:Paducah, Ky USA
Registered: Jan 2004

posted 03-18-2004 08:53 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for GinaH     Edit/Delete Message
Very well said True Pits your post are always so informative and just straight to the point I like that!
lldvlshangel, has been badly misinformed and should not give advice to anyone without having knowledge of what she is speaking of.
She needs to get some books and actually educate herself about the the breed.
Well Thanks again True Pits have a Great Day!

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Samsintentions
Member

Posts: 944
From:Columbus, Tx ,USA
Registered: Dec 2003

posted 03-19-2004 05:57 AM     Click Here to See the Profile for Samsintentions     Edit/Delete Message
I've heard of Hydrophilic (sp??) babies, where the brain should be, there's nothing but fluid and some tissue..but never brains getting too big....


Anyhow, good job, I know this was a hard time for the both of you and everyone involuved. Now that problem can't happen again!!!

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cheeko'smommy
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Posts: 46
From:
Registered: Jan 2004

posted 03-19-2004 04:23 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for cheeko'smommy     Edit/Delete Message
yeah true_pits you said it very well.

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