posted 03-03-2004 02:43 AM         

I have misplaced all my dogs papers a few times.
You also could have caused trouble for yourself snooping into something like this i know that you were just concerened but what if you had been confronted by a nasty person things could have got out of hand.

You also lied to this person about purchasing a dog i know that this was your way of getting to see them but still you should have told the proper authorities about her just breeding these dogs to sell for fighting.

Poepls like you who do things like this make the BYB more determined.

Your just lucky that didnt get into a fight or something also how would you have felt if she produced all the relavant info and you lied about wanting a puppy what would you have said i will have a think about it ?????

Use your head next time not all breeders and BYB are very nice people and things can get really ugly.

So please be careful.
I do understand your views on the matter of BYB i am the same i think they are just ignorant and dont think of the health of the female.

posted 03-03-2004 06:15 AM         

As far as snooping, how would this breeder KNOW she was snooping? She did what any other informed person would have asked if forking out their hard-earned cash, and then walk away withOUT buying a pup if they so choose. No one is obligated to buy a pup. (You would be quite surprised on the number of people who snoop -- as you call it.)

Not that lying is a good thing, but H-E-L-L-O Mike, the breeder obviously wasn't telling the truth either. And why PRAY-TELL should she (cheeko) have contacted the authorities?? There was absolutely nothing said that this breeder was selling dogs for fighting purposes. Now that, could be grounds for a wacko to 'get out of hand'.

PS. Mike, a quick question for ya. How does one lose their dog's registration/pedigree paper? I suppose everyone isn't like me, but I like to keep important papers put away so nothing gets lost or destroyed. (You know, like home insurance papers, car titles, bank statements, things like that.) Unless of course, you are too young to have these types of important papers. I don't know.

posted 03-03-2004 09:06 AM         

Another thing i am also not defending BYB's but some of them actually care alot about there dogs and even have there dogs checked for illnesses and so on before they have the bred so not all BYB are bad people.

Another thing like it has been said on a previous post papers can be forged and you might think you buying a purebred dog with papers but some BYB's know all the scams there is, So seeing papers means absolutley nothing.

My mum knows a stupid man who lives near her that was breeding bull mastiffs but they were crossed he even registered his 2 adult dogs with the kennel club told them a pack of lies about there back grounds and the funny thing is he got away with it,
It was not till the new owners went to register there pups that he was found out.

So you see Papers mean nothing.
I only sell my puppies with papers if they are not going to be used for breeding,
And if the new owner wants to breed from the dog i must see the sire's paperwork his bloodline his medical records and so on so i know that my blood line will not suffer.

But all in all i really do understand what you were saying and how you feel about BYB's.

posted 03-03-2004 09:49 AM         

As far as BYBs, I never said anything one way or the other. Of course a lot of them care about their animals. BYBs who have no original paperwork from a legit registry (UKC, AKC, ADBA) will go to a (what we call) FAKE registry to register them. Most likely what your mom's 'stupid' neighbor did. Thousands of people are getting screwed this way. Lets just say this, if someone is going to slap down a sh!tload of money for a puppy, he better had done his homework beforehand.

I only sell my puppies with papers if they are not going to be used for breeding,

posted 03-03-2004 02:35 PM         

Papers are only important to the buyer if they intend to use the dog for breeding or showing if they are just wanting it for a pet then there is no real need for the papers.

Another thing i dont need to do research for the fact i breed, All my dogs have papers all my dogs are registered microchipped and health checked regulary.

My dogs only have one litter every 1-2 years and i make sure they are in perfect condition the are checked incase they may have picked up a bug the males are even checked out.

If i use a stud dog for any of my females i make sure they are fully checked vaccinated and so on i even ask for proof of the checks before i will use that dog.

One of my females is expecting her 1st litter so does that make me irresponsible because she having a litter yet she is papered registerd vaccinated microchipped and fully health tested OH NOT forgetting she is a purebred german shepherd like my other 2 females and my 2males.

Please dont even go there saying i am irresponsible as the difference between me and BYB's is i take care of my dogs i dont throw out litters at every heat i make sure they are checked and i make sure my pups are checked vaccinated and they have there medical certificates from the vets to state they have had blood and urine work done and all clear.

The only owners that get papers for my puppies are people that sign a contract saying that if they use the dog for breeding i get to see the documentation of either the sire or dam depending on which sex they buy.

If they only want the dog for a pet then they dont recieve the papers for that puppy.
I have been round breeders all my life my mum was a breeder so i know what i am doing.

I have an emergancy vet on call if anything was to go wrong with my girls during whelping.
My whelping room is heated and has CCtv so i can monitor the dogs and puppies while they are on there own.

I now keep all relevant information and papers on my dogs in the safe so i know where they are.

Like i have pointed out i dont agree in BYB there is noway of stopping it as there will always be people to buy the pups of these people.

Sorry to have gone on but i dont like being called irresposible.

Mike

posted 03-03-2004 03:08 PM         

No responsible breeder is going to loose there papers. That doesn't make sense. And they are going to know the bloodlines of their dogs. So if they lost the papers, what kind of breeder does that tell you they are? Has it whipped out the memory of what line they are breeding? If the papers are lost they cannot register the litter. I've misplaced things sure, but not my registration certificates and pedigrees. If for some reason they were misplaced (not likely) I have copies on zip disk and I have xerox copies of the pedigrees. These are just back ups, used to take places where I'm not taking the original or to give to someone to keep so I still have the original.

Lying, don't law enforcement officers lie? What about undercover, that is why they have to be careful so they can't be charged with entrapment. When you bust a puppy mill you have to lie to do it. You can't very well tell the truth of what your doing. You have to play their game, lie to dishonest people.

They are obviously not using them for fighting purposes, but know they are a popular fighting breed, so they use this hype to sell them. I posted about those wackos trying to sell the "Colby Dogs", they also used the hype "Colby is a realy old fighting line" This is all they knew.

posted 03-03-2004 05:13 PM         

Anyway, you did say that you only give papers to people who are not going to breed, which doesn't make a whole lotta sense to me. I asked if that was a typo.

posted 03-04-2004 05:30 AM         

Many breeders i know will not give the papers to anyone that is only wanting the dog to breed from or to make money using a male for a stud.
Each breeder is different.
I will show new owners the line of the dogs i will even allow them to sit and read through them so they know the type of bloodline dog they are getting from me.

After this litter it dont matter much to me about breeding or papers apart for the papers of my own dogs as this is the last litter from me.

If i Do misplace the papers the new owners leave there telephone numbers or addresses and i contact them as soon as i find them and i either forward them on or they come and pick them up.

I am in regular contact with my puppy owners i am here if the need advice or would just like to bring the dogs for a visit.

Not all breeders will know the full bloodline from the top of there heads its just not possible unless you have a photographic memory which i dont lol.
All my dogs have a 6generation pedigree.

cheeko'smommy i know how you feel as it can be really annoying and make you angry when people say they have pedigree dogs for sale but cant back up this will any form of papers or any other documentation.

I get angry with BYB's as most of them are only in it to make money well its people like that who will just throw any 2 dogs together and hope for the best with no consideration for the health of the puppies and the problems that can arise.

posted 03-05-2004 10:11 AM         

As for misplacing info, I have done this once my self. I was moving, boxed everything up, and ended up having to tear up all kinds of boxes looking for the papers. Yes I found them, but things do happen.

Although, someone not knowing their dogs hisory and bloodline, and claiming to be a reputable breeder....oh come on. Any idiot knows their dogs. If they dont, they dam well shouldn't be breeding.

Sorry if I offended anyone, but I can see both points of views. No use arguing about it anymore. Things happen, there are stupid people out there, and dogs (sadly) end up paying for the ignorant actions of others.

posted 03-05-2004 10:24 AM         

man i wish that byb could be stopped too, they really mess everything up....but here in the u.s of a there are no regulations on breeding what so ever, that i know of anyways....but yeah that would solve alot of this breeds problems, if you had to have a license to breed and there was some form of inspection of the breeding facilities, and health screenong for diseases was mandatory. background checks and home inspections of potential buyers, and i know some people are gonna hate this but make getting your dog spayed or neutered mandatory with stiff fines for those who choose not to, and we really need to fix our animal cruelty laws, they are no where near strict enough....wow i wasn't even really thinking as i was typing that stuff, but it would work wouldn't it...maybe a little?