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 What to do???
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| Author | Topic: What to do??? |
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AC from TO Member  Posts: 31 |
posted 02-24-2004 09:06 AM
 
I work for animal control in Toronto Canada and am seeking some information.... Our problems with backyard breeders and irrisponsible dog owners are just beginning compared to what i've seen going on in places in the US. What I am looking to find out is what means local animal control facilities are taking to try to control the BYB, and educate potential dog owners as to what to look for when buying a dog, and what to do with them once they have them. We have a basic (and I mean very basic)education program here that I as a junior person (2 yrs with this city) would like very much to expand on. Our by-law here is basic as well. Nothing that applies to breeders. In fact, nothing anywhere in canada that regulates breeding or training facilities at all. I guess what I am looking for is a way to make sure that the BYB breeding all types of dogs are stopped, and also that the community is educated and can become more pit bull (and similar breed) friendly. Both for the dogs and the citizens. Thanking you in advance. IP: Logged |
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benny boy Member Posts: 392 |
posted 02-24-2004 11:07 AM
man i wish that byb could be stopped too, they really mess everything up....but here in the u.s of a there are no regulations on breeding what so ever, that i know of anyways....but yeah that would solve alot of this breeds problems, if you had to have a license to breed and there was some form of inspection of the breeding facilities, and health screenong for diseases was mandatory. background checks and home inspections of potential buyers, and i know some people are gonna hate this but make getting your dog spayed or neutered mandatory with stiff fines for those who choose not to, and we really need to fix our animal cruelty laws, they are no where near strict enough....wow i wasn't even really thinking as i was typing that stuff, but it would work wouldn't it...maybe a little? IP: Logged |
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chickee Member Posts: 150 |
posted 02-24-2004 11:29 AM
Benny, there is NO WAY in hell i would agree with any of those stipulations you listed in regards to controlling BYBs. Besides the fact that once you start making tons of regulations just for owning a pet, the government will start regulating other things a normal citizen can do and can't do. This is a free country...(or so they say). These things won't help the problem! While all the 'honest' animal owners and breeders will abide by the law, the BYBs (who ARE the problem)will not. It will only lead to less quality dogs and a TON more non-quality dogs. These types of regulations only hurt the good breeders. Just like gun control. A criminal would be the only people running around with guns. Gee, how safe is that? IP: Logged |
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benny boy Member Posts: 392 |
posted 02-24-2004 11:35 AM
alrighty so what would you recomend then? since my ideas suck....  [This message has been edited by benny boy (edited 02-24-2004).] IP: Logged |
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benny boy Member Posts: 392 |
posted 02-24-2004 12:12 PM
quote:i mean if the byb's couldnt advertise pups in newspapers or peddle them on the side of the road, then how would they sell them? i think it would hurt their buisness alot...and how would an inspection to make sure that the kennell was big enough and a real kennell be a bad thing? honest breeders would have nothing to worry about... quote: okay, they're already making regulations for owning pets...extra insurance, most apartments wont even let you sign a lease if they know you own a pit. some counties require you to make your dog wear a muzzle. and a "normal" citizen wouldn't really be affected by anything that i said? i was talking about doing a background check for someone that wants to own a dog that is commonly abused and used for fighting or protection(even though they're not good for it)...and when i said background check im not talking about if you have a d.u.i. or anything im talking about people with a violent/animal abuse history....would you want someone like that to have one of your dogs anyways? quote: yeah mandatory health screening is a really bad idea i dont know what i was thinking with that one{sarcasm)...but how would it hurt the quality of dogs? if only real breeders who knew what they were doing were breeding them then what would that hurt? i think it would raise the quality of dogs produced quote:no, it would help them alot. if bybs were no longer peddling pups or at least not as much then the potential consumer would have no where to get a dog except a local REAL breeder. it would increase theor buisness quote: ummm...criminals would be the only ones to have guns if guns were completely banned? we're not talking about banning anything just talking about regulating breeding to increase safety for people and the animals. [This message has been edited by benny boy (edited 02-24-2004).] IP: Logged |
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True_Pits Member Posts: 373 |
posted 02-24-2004 12:43 PM
Benny Boy I think you are on the right track at least. These are things good breeders already do so it wouldn't hurt or affect them. They already do it, now it is just mandatory. And the spay and nuetering thing is already mandatory in the city near where I live. If you don't have a kennel lisence your dog better be fixed or you get a $50 fine the first time and then $100, ect. IP: Logged |
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AC from TO Member Posts: 31 |
posted 02-24-2004 01:29 PM
As I sit here at work and AGAIN take in someone else's pit bull that they don't want anymore because they didn't know what they were getting into!!! I have to aggree with benny boy. What are the options outside of regulating breeders. All the quality breeders that I know of already practice all the aforementioned points. It's the shelters like mine that need to learn better things about spaying/neutering all adopted dogs and properly educating those who choose to bring in a new pet. (of any breed!!) Breed specific legislation doesn't work in my opinion b/c then all the responsible owners/breeders suffer for the mistakes of the losers. Also, breed specific??? What breed (s) would they choose?? Pit bulls?? Am staffs?? Does this leave out the American Bulldogs? The Pressas?? Akitas or Jack Russels?? And what would they have the owners of these dogs do? Muzzle in public?, Put down all of that breed that ends up in shelters?? We all know that the more sensible choices like manditory spay/neuter and obedience training would be last on councils list! Here in Canada the byb are starting to figure out that when the pit bulls won't sell, all it takes is to mix it with a dogo and then they can raise the price by a couple hundred dollars and sell off all the pupps!! In our pet stores we are only now beginning to see the Neo's, and Bull Mastiffs. We've been lucky up until now that the market for such dogs was low and very well taken care of by the CKC reg'd breeders. I may just be running my mouth, but working where I do, and watching this go on day after day....well one needs to go somewhere to vent IP: Logged |
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benny boy Member Posts: 392 |
posted 02-24-2004 01:57 PM
i think that it would be good if someone would publicize the buisenss ethics and practices of the bybs.....most people dont have a clue about the problem, they just think its great that they can open the paper and find any dog they want. IP: Logged |
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charmedagain Member Posts: 790 |
posted 02-25-2004 05:29 AM
Ok i would like to put my opinion across. I dont agree with backyard breeding as i breed german shepherds. But How do you think the first breeder started out. Some of the best looking dogs are cross breeds which come from BYB i am not saying that it is right i am just saying that what makes a truly responsible breeder apart from the abvious of health checks sterile enviroment for whelping and raising puppies and pregnant females. What about these people that breed shi poo's and peeka poo's and bull mastiffs and so on these are all cross breed dogs. Yet they the breeders of these dont get the label of being a BYB. I would go nuts if i came across someone that was just mixing breeds just to see what they can produce but in the next breath how do you think we got most of the breeds we have today. i know i will get grief for what i have just said but this is just my opinion. As a responsible breeder of pedigree shepherds i thought i would give my views on the matter. mike IP: Logged |
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Deus Member Posts: 136 |
posted 02-25-2004 07:00 AM
No offence charmedagain but I think your questions are pretty silly not to mention self explanatory, Yes there always has been and always will be people willing to experiment With dogs does that make it rite…Well I’ll leave that up to you. I think the biggest question is are the animals breed worthy in the first place ""Some of the best looking dogs are cross breeds which come from BYB"" Are you serious? Can this be what motivates you when it comes to breeding?
Of course they do are you kidding me LOL do really thing that all the breeders of those types of dog are professionals? 90% of them are simply out to make a buck like every other BYB! ""I would go nuts if i came across someone that was just mixing breeds just to see what they can produce but in the next breath how do you think we got most of the breeds we have today."" Expertise, Professionalism and a CLEAR CUT GOAL is how we have the breeds of today, not by some BYB with a Frankenstein complex. It takes years and a but load of CULLING to refine then purify a new breed, then after you start breeding TRUE you still have to do some more refining to insure correct temp & type. Once you have achieved this a Feno type & Breed Standard must be drawn up and submitted to your registry. BYB’s don’t do these thing they simply crash to dogs together and hope for the best. No Health testing, No Stability testing, No Culling just pot luck to be sold to the un-aware and the un-informed who are there best and most time ONLY customers. You have to admit there’s a big difference between a breeder with a clear sense of purpose and goals in mine and a breeder who’s just curious. Just my 2 cents [This message has been edited by Deus (edited 02-25-2004).] IP: Logged |
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benny boy Member Posts: 392 |
posted 02-25-2004 07:38 AM
the difrference between a byb and a REAL breeder is the fact that real breeders are out to better the breed and know about the lines that they work with. where as bybs are only out to make a quick buck and they mix different breeds that they think people will want to buy, so bybs do not help the breed, but hurt it instead. REAL breeders show their dogs and have them compete in different competitions, agility or whatever.... and yes lots of dogs around today have been mixed with other breeds, but for a purpose, wether it be hunting, fighting, protection, etc.... their motivation was not to try and sell them to the public and make some money. IP: Logged |
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charmedagain Member Posts: 790 |
posted 02-25-2004 08:15 AM
Well i am sorry i breed shepherds and i dont show them and they dont do competitions if the owner of the pupies want to do that then thats upto them. My mum used to show i have thought about it but decided not to as my dogs dont like being around other dogs and can get abit touchy. Dues i never once said that it was right to mix breed and i have to say i dont agree with it but at the end of the day there is noway there is ever going to be a law against BYB or against cross breeding. They will always find a way round it. If there was a petition to sign to fine and ban BYB from doing so i would be the first to sign it. All my puppies when goto there new homes the new owners have to sign a contract stating that they will not use the females to breed from unless i see a full history and background of the stud they are going to use. So i can see where your coming from i was just making a point that most of the cross breeds and pedigree breeds started from BYB someone who thought they would see the breed they could come up with. As for temperament of a litter this is down to the new owners of how this pup will turn out as they might be loving sweet natured dogs when with there mother and the breeder but they could turn nasty dogs due to the way the new owner brings them up. But all in all there is noway we will ever be able to stop BYB simple as that. Mike IP: Logged |
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benny boy Member Posts: 392 |
posted 02-25-2004 09:06 AM
quote:most all dogs were crossed with another breed at one point in time. does that make mixing dogs for the fun of it okay?if thats the case can i buy one of your female pups i wanna breed my cocker spaniel to her, im trying to invint a new breed, no harm in that, right? and whos to say that whoever created the bullmastiff was a backyard breeder? if there was such a thing back then. so are you against byb or for it? i can't tell you keep going back and forth.
quote:they were bred for game keepers to stop poachers. they didn't just throw a bulldog and a mastiff together to see what breed they could come up with. there was a purpose and specifically chose those two dogs for a reason. they weren't trying to make a cool looking dog that they thought people would really want to buy so they would make lots of money. i just dont see what is okay with mixing dogs now days, as most dogs are pets. so mixing them with other breeds serves no purpose, it wont make your dog a better companion. [This message has been edited by benny boy (edited 02-25-2004).] IP: Logged |
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charmedagain Member Posts: 790 |
posted 02-25-2004 10:57 AM
Like i pointed out i do not agree with BYB and never have i do not agree with putting 2different breeds together to try and make a new breed to make money. There is only BYB that make loads of money from breeding i can honsetly say the money i make from my dogs goes on vet bills and other things to ensure my dogs stay in the best health. I would not allow any of my females to mate with a different breed if a different breed male was to get to one of my females and she ended up being pregnant i would have the pregnancy terminated yes this may sound really cruel but thats what i would do. I have never had a cross breed dog i have been brought up around shepherds rotties and pitbulls. I also pointed out that if it was possible to put a stop to these BYB i would be only to happy to help out but its never gonna happen they will always find a way around the laws. I dont mean to annoy people but its just my opinion.. There will always be lots of animals in shelters due to people getting then and realising that these animals dont fit into there lifestyles or the dog is not what they wanted in the end so these poor creatures end up in shelters. I am lucky none of my dogs go into shelters as in my contracts i state if for any reason the new owners cant keep the dog i will take it back and i rehome it. But like i say i so wish there was a way to stop back yard breeders i really do. mike IP: Logged |
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benny boy Member Posts: 392 |
posted 02-25-2004 11:07 AM
quote: okay i know this is all just a "what if" situation, but if they were to make a law that said it is illegal to breed dogs unless you are a licensed breeder, and all animals must be spayed or neutered. i think that would greatly help the problem. i mean its better to atleast try and do something than sit back and say man we cant do anything about this, oh well. if i was breeding dogs in my backyard and they came out with a law that would slap me with a hefty fine or lock me up for a short period of time then i would think twice about it and try and move on to something else i could exploit and profit from......thats just me though, im sure everyone has different views on this topic. IP: Logged |
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charmedagain Member Posts: 790 |
posted 02-25-2004 11:30 AM
I agree breeders should be licenced and that all pets should be spayed or nuetered if they are not of show standards. i think BYB should be given a hefty fine and inprisoned but lets be realistic they wont bring a law like that in unless there was a petition or something similar sent to the goverment. mike IP: Logged |
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bullylove1 Member Posts: 173 |
posted 02-25-2004 02:33 PM
hello all, I agree with Benny boy, and AC in TO, I hear ya loud and clear! I live in Alberta and it doesn't seem that anyone i talk to cares to know about the problems byb and irresponsible owners pose to the dog world. Do you guys do any work with PBRC? There are no specific shelters here for Pit Bulls, but there isnt a huge problem with them here in Calgary at least. We are starting to see a larger number of Pit owners here, but responsible ones at that. I am also interested in raising awareness to people and gettign them interested, but there has to be something that catches their eye. I know from working in childrens foundations that numbers and visuals gets to people. Everyone wants stats. The problem in Canada is finding Canadian stats. Everytime I am trying to find different stats on Pits in Canada its either mixed with US or I can only find US stats. A whole proposal needs to be put into place,so that any questions can be answered. Also, media plays a BIG part. I know most media is harsh on Pit Bulls, but what about getting them to do a piece on a good Pit. Do you know of any Pits that do any type of rescue in TO? I was on a Pit Rescue site the other day (Bad Rap) I think. And they are starting a program with the local and area Police to come to the resuce and do some training and learning about Pits so they are more aware that there is a problem, and so they are more comfortable when they see them out on the job. I think this is a great idea! The more people that get involved with this breed for a good cause will not be able to turn their head when they hear stories about dog fights etc. If you want your voice heard, you have to do it yourself. Start a petition for stronger dog laws, call your local MLA, bombard them with calls everyday until you are heard. Gosh, just think about the scandal we just had, the gov't spending 100's of millions of our dollars. That money could have implemeted programs (free of charge) to local communities where there is a large dog population and have a weekly "meeting" of sorts to get people involved. This is something you can still look into doing. We need to implement stronger laws for dog owners and breeders. I don't mind being put out a little if someone comes to my house every 6 months to do a home inspection for my dog. That just means that they are are weeding the bad owners out, and breeders shouldn't have to worry. They should be praising local law enforcement for finally playing a role in trying to protect dogs of all breeds instead of looking the other way. Sorry for such a long post guys! Too much coffee today Leslie ------------------ IP: Logged |
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