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FFreedom New Member  Posts: 8 |
posted 02-11-2004 02:08 PM
 
I came here looking for responsible Pit lover's and have not found that here, I'm sorry to say. I cannot be a part of any forum that advocated cropping of ears/tails. Would you crop your baby's ears if they stuck out?? It is cruel and inhumane to put them through pain for a purely cosmetic reason. Whoever the moderator is, please delete my membership to this forum. IP: Logged |
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shanean Member  Posts: 43 |
posted 02-11-2004 02:22 PM
Everyone has the right to decide to crop ears or not.That doesn't make us irresponsible owners. [This message has been edited by Auspetian (edited 02-12-2004).] IP: Logged |
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goob Member Posts: 552 |
posted 02-11-2004 02:23 PM
Maybe you should stick around long enough to see everyones' standpoints on that issue. I know not everyone here "advocates" cropping ears and docking tails, many are opposed to it, or at the very least, neutral. As it stands, cropping and docking are legal, and DO serve a purpose in some cases, so until that changes, it's a personal choice to crop or not to crop. There are certainly mroe pressing issues for the breed than a few pups being cropped/docked, and living happy lives with caring owners who happen to like cropped dogs, and your outrage may be better directed to dealing with those issues. IP: Logged |
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FFreedom New Member Posts: 8 |
posted 02-11-2004 02:31 PM
Thank you Goob for your response. I do animal rescue, and most frequently get 'difficult' breeds in, such as Pits. Trust me, my outrage over the treatment of animals by irresponsible breeders and owners is directed at many different areas, ranging from weaning puppies too early to abuse to yes, causing them pain for purely cosmetic reasons. I'd be interested in hearing what purpose you feel ear cropping serves, if you would be so kind. Thank you. Shanean, I probably should have worded my post differently. I did not mean to insult you. But yes, it is my opinion that cropping ears is irresponsible and cruel. As w/Goob, I'd be interested to hear how it could be construed as anything else. [This message has been edited by FFreedom (edited 02-11-2004).] IP: Logged |
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chickee Member Posts: 150 |
posted 02-11-2004 02:42 PM
Boy, I bet your the prejudice type. Honestly, you can take that membership and stick it where the sun don't shine and I don't think anyone would be the bit concerned. Let me save you alot of work in your quest for the PERFECT forum in your eyes - YOU AIN'T GONNA FIND IT. Actually, I'm a very responsible owner and have been for over 18 years. I don't need some young turd telling me how to care and love my dogs. Maybe if you looked into the process of it all, and you weren't so SELF-CENTERED and closeminded, you might find out that it isn't cruel or inhumane. What the HECK do you think, they perform surgery without anesthesia? Now, if you have worded it as pertaining to these home crops from some wank innercity owner, than I can agree with you. But you're not. With that said, because I refuse to say what I actually want to -- SEE YA. PS. One of my pet peeves are people like you who actually compare a human being with an animal. Do you believe in piercing body parts....ears for example? How 'bout circumcisions on male babies? Are you for Animal rights or Animal Welfare? Are you by any chance a PETA supporter? Please answer my questions (if you can, that is.) Thank you. [This message has been edited by chickee (edited 02-11-2004).] IP: Logged |
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FFreedom New Member Posts: 8 |
posted 02-11-2004 03:20 PM
Lovely. About on par w/the guy asking about dog fighting. I'm a young turd LOL, self-centered, and closeminded?? I've been rescuing dogs and training SAR dogs for over 12years. I rescue the dogs breeders and owners do not have the competance or conscience to care for. I do not care if their ears are numbed before they are sliced and diced. Do you think they feel no pain when it wears off? Do you think they wanted their ears cropped so they could be the meanest looking dog on the street? I truly equate that to chopping off your baby son's ear lobes b/c you don't like the way they look. Really, if you so dislike my opinion, then please tell me what possible reasoning there can be behind ear cropping, other than for cosmetic reasons?? [This message has been edited by FFreedom (edited 02-11-2004).] IP: Logged |
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chickee Member Posts: 150 |
posted 02-11-2004 04:16 PM
FYI, I added to my above post. Go read it since you're still hanging around. Well good for you. I see you have no problem in patting yourself on the back, but you can save your self-righteous B.S. for someone else. I know fully well about rescue and the people who deal with rescues. That gives you NO RIGHT to come onto any board and call people you do not know, "unloving and uncaring" of their animals because you happen not to agree with certain choices. Take care of the animals you are rescuing and bitch about something more important. RESCUING MAYBE?? DUH.
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goob Member Posts: 552 |
posted 02-11-2004 04:18 PM
People with worknig dogs may crop as a preventive measure to keep a dog from getting a torn ear when they are older. If you've never had a dog with such an injury, you truly don't know what you're missing out on, several months of wrapping, taping, and painful cauterization everytime the ear splits again, sometimes ending in cropping anyway. This isn't a worry for most housedogs, but for dogs who are out running in brush or used to catch feral animals (pigs, whatever), it can be a big risk. If I were in a situation such as I described, or had a dog of a line known for having problems with their ears, I would probably crop, betetr to have it done and over with as a pup (the pups are completely knocked out for ear crops, btw, not just numb), a week or two of discomfort, than to have to deal with a lifetime of pain and trouble. Docking is also done as a preventive measure on dogs with thin, sparsely coated, or bony tails. I've seen many dogs that weren't docked as pups, and had to be done later in life, and the dogs were miserable to have lost what had come to be an essential means of communication and balance, it was as if they'd lost a leg. I've also seen many dogs docked as pups, who bore no effects of havign their tails lopped off when they were so young. Again, if I had a dog prone to such problems, or who would be doing a job that would put it at high risk for problems, the tail would be gone. Presently, the bottom 3 ft of our walls in 4 or 5 different spots in the house are splattered with blood from the younger of our two bloodying her tail up wagging it against the walls everytime someone comes in. She certainly doesn't enjoy having wads of tape and auze loaded onto it everytime it happens, and I'm sure given the choice, would rather have lost it and forgotten about it long ago. I'd certainly not consider it "irresponsible" for someone to crop or dock their dog if they knew if would likely suffer damage to those parts later on if they were left intact... in fact, I feel just the opposite is true, and I'm not really even a proponent of either docking or cropping. The following is a link thast gives reasons for tail docking... of course, this is only the pro docking side, but there are numerous places to research the anti docking side: http://www.cdb.org/ What do you think will happen if people who want cropped/docked dogs can no longer take them to a vet to get the surgeries done? Those nightmare "home jobs" we all hear so much about will become more common as people realize how easy it is to do them at home. I'm curious, have you ever seen a puppy being cropped or docked? Also consider that spaying and neutering aren't really "necessary" surgeries, though there are some helth benefits (as in cropping and docking in some cases), it's often a choice made by dog owners that allows them to avoid the inconvenience of having and intact dog. I dare say that getting a dog fixed as at least on par with, if not more painful and invasive than cropping, and far moreso than docking (considering both are done by someone who is experienced in the procedures). Should people also stop having these "unecessary" and painful surgeries done on their dogs? *** For the record, I fully support having non-breeding quality or pet dogs fixed *** [This message has been edited by goob (edited 02-11-2004).] IP: Logged |
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MyPetTherapyDog Member Posts: 157 |
posted 02-11-2004 04:19 PM
I am curious. How many different types of dog breeds have their ears cropped? IP: Logged |
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goob Member Posts: 552 |
posted 02-11-2004 04:33 PM
APBTs, AmStaffs, Boxers, Danes, Dobies, most of the non-AKC mastiff breeds (Presas, Neos, CCs, Dogos, etc), all three types of Schnauzer(sp?), Minpins, some American Bulldogs, Beaucerons, Scotties, Bouviers are cropped sometimes or always. There are others too, that's all I could think of though. IP: Logged |
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FFreedom New Member Posts: 8 |
posted 02-11-2004 04:51 PM
Chickie, I am a former ear piercer and as far as that goes, I wouldn't pierce baby's ears either. I have had my ears pierced plenty of times, but that is a decision I made to cause myself pain for a purely cosmetic reason. Dogs don't make the decision to get their ears cropped. I don't have children, but I can say w/certainty that if I had choosen that route, I would not have had my baby circumsized unless the doctor gave me contrete proof that it was for true health reasons, not b/c it is a standard 'look' for a penis. I am for animal rights where they pertain to the animal's welfare. I don't see what that has to do w/cropping ears though, IMO that is strictly about animal welfare and cruelty. No, I am not, nor have I ever been a member of PETA. And lady, I think you're are getting a little heated hear over something that was in no way specifically directed towards you. As I've said before, if you disagree w/my opinion please give me some evidence that cropping of a Pit's ears is for any reason other than for looks. Or is there in fact, no reason? LOL, I don't need to vent any frustrations and I do not understand why you are taking this so personally. Maybe it is you that has some pent up frustrations? Or maybe that is the 'typical' pit owner behavior that I've seen before, it seems rather similar. Goob, I am stunned that your dog's tail bleeds when hit against the wall. Does she have any other condition (hemophilia) that would cause that? My dog's tail is like a whip, but I can't imaging the force that would have to be used to burst the skin on her tail open. There are health reasons that can be put forward in support of docking tails. But I have never seen anything in reference to the bully breeds that docking/cropping their tails/ears is good for their health. In fact, just the opposite. What ear problems would a pit have that cropping would help? They don't have the protective hair in their ears like GSD dogs do, they've got nothing to protect their inner ears from dirt and debris other than their ear flaps. [This message has been edited by FFreedom (edited 02-11-2004).] IP: Logged |
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True_Pits Member Posts: 373 |
posted 02-11-2004 05:18 PM
I thought Freedom was leaving too? Hmmmmm! Maybe they just wanted to start something. There is no perfect forum and their is no APBT where someone doesn't have their Pits ears cropped that is just stupid. You can't go someplace and expect everyone else to have the same view as you about cropping/docking. Lol....your leaving a board just because some members have a different preference that you. Ok you are saying that people who crop and/or dock or not responsible and a lot of other BS. Chickee has their dogs ears cropped so therefore you are calling them irresponsible. Then you go and make a statement like this: quote: Its directed to her(and me) and all the other owners on here who crop and/or dock.
quote: Well Goob showed you that evidence so their is no reason to repeat it by Chickee, myself or any other person. Except I have own to add, it is the standard to show and that is truly cosmetic, yet those breeders are usually considered most responsible. My wonderful dogs with their lovely cropeed ears.
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Jas Moderator Posts: 536 |
posted 02-11-2004 06:00 PM
Freedom - *****Messages here are the sole responsibility and opinion of the posters and do not necessarily reflect the opinion of Auspet. Do not assume we condone this practice, nor are we here to police people's decisions on what they do with their dogs. **** FWIW and NOT to open a can of worms, however, removal of dewclaws fall under the same category as docking and cropping. No one is going to beg you to stay here but good luck finding a Pit Bull place that is free of such practices. Perhaps you should be more instrumental & take this up with your breed club, Bull breeders or animal advocacy groups and fight toward making these practices illegal. That would be a more worthwhile approach instead of wrongly criticizing and lumping all pet owners here at Auspet as irresponsible. As it states this forum is Dedicated to Pit Bull Owners. IP: Logged |
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FFreedom New Member Posts: 8 |
posted 02-11-2004 06:17 PM
No, actually my question was not answered, although I didn't really expect it to be. What other reason's are there for cropping/docking a bully breed's ears/tails, other than for cosmetic reasons? What possible health reason would validate doing such a thing? I won't be back, and whatever you all may think, I did not come to here to (as you so eloquently put) start shit. I came to discuss the breed w/people I view as responsible and caring, not shallow and sadistic. Maybe I have a different mentality from doing rescue for so long, and trust me I will not make the mistake of joining another Pit Bull forum unless it is dedicated towards rescuing them. If anyone is truly up to the challenge of explaining what health reasons could possibly be behind cropping/docking a bully breed's ears/tails (not a border collies or anything else, a bully breed), my email addy is foamyf@hotmail.com. However, I won't wait up for an answer. And you are absolutely right True Pit, you have beautiful dogs, but they could gain a few more lbs IMO. I'm sure you can understand that I also don't advocate the starvation of dogs just so their muscles stand out more. Obviously I started out on the wrong foot here ~ so I will just keep hopping on it on my way out....... IP: Logged |
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chickee Member Posts: 150 |
posted 02-11-2004 06:23 PM
The funniest thing! I was just sitting here having a conversation with a couple of my dogs, (over coffee of course), and it was anonymous, they both agreed they loved their cropped look! I'll be damned. Pain? There was no pain, but a little annoyed with the itching. Ok. As for me getting a bit riled up. Well, re-read your orginal post dear. You DID call me and everyone else who cropped ears irresponsible and loveless. You come onto a strange board and what, the 2nd post you ever make and you are dissing people already. You, m'lady need to get over yourself while in public. It's unbecoming. Another thing, Animal Rights are fanatics and that is exactly what you reminded me of. It is the Animal Welfare people who truly have the well-being of animals in mind. PETA is animal rights and they are totally off the wall. Anyway, it is obvious from your last post, you have NO IDEA what this breed is about, except of course, the fact that you 'do' rescue. Do you own a pit bull? Do you have a couple in your home RIGHT NOW? Maybe you do, but for some reason, I doubt it. Bye [This message has been edited by chickee (edited 02-11-2004).] IP: Logged |
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True_Pits Member Posts: 373 |
posted 02-11-2004 06:55 PM
Oh are you really gone this time? I surely can email you. Maybe you didnt read Goob's post then. A BORDER COLLIE WTF, they don't get their ears and tails done. But anyway here it is again exactly what Goob said.
quote: Oh yes and about the tail thing, I would never crop a bulldogs tail, BUT I'm having the same problem with the tails bleeding. I have this one bitch that is constant and her tail is horrible. Its treated and wrapped too, but still happens. It has almost been healed up several times and then she whacks it back open again. Her tail is going non stop though so that doesn't help. Your right my dogs are beautiful, but you've obvious got some type of chip on your shoulder or something. I guess, I never starve my dogs or pups their is no need to. I do condition them for shows and keep them at a healthy chain weight. And when you condition a dog, well thats the thing they are going to be conditioned more. If you starve a dog down to weight it doesn't take much to realize their muscles won't stand out more, they will diminish because the body will begin to use it and the dog will be nothing but skinny and probably bones. Thats why it is important to feed a higher fat content to working dogs along with a nice BUT NOT OVERLOAD amount of protein. [This message has been edited by True_Pits (edited 02-11-2004).] IP: Logged |
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MyPetTherapyDog Member Posts: 157 |
posted 02-11-2004 07:23 PM
Not that this has anything to do with the subject at hand but I thought I would add my two cents. My little pit/mix Ginger (a rescue dog) has dewclaws. What I would not give to have them removed. Her next vet visit I am going to ask if she is too old to remove them. I know this should have been done as a puppy. She is always running and playing outdoors. We love to hike and one day, she got her dewclaw stuck on a branch. It ripped and she began to bleed. It was not bad and she did not require a vet visit that time ~~~~ but made me think that they can be dangerous (as well as UGLY). Ginger's just flap all around. So, That is why I think they should be removed. She is almost 4 years old now. I don't know if there is an age limit or not. I rescue too and I don't think cropping or docking is cruel!!! Just my opinion!!! Susan IP: Logged |
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tyed_dyed00 Member Posts: 43 |
posted 02-11-2004 07:51 PM
being a dvm, i have to ride the fence on this subject, all though i crop ears in my office, i have people come to me to crop there dogs ears for show, and yes there one good reason for cropping it saves the dog from ear trouble like inner ear infections, and yeast infections yes dogs can get yeast infections......and yes we put them under when we do it, and they rarelly feel pain after it is done we also give the dog pain meds, for a day thats aslong as the pain lasts. itching is more common ** Administrator Note: IP: Logged |
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3Dogsihave Member Posts: 156 |
posted 02-11-2004 07:52 PM
Ok I dont own pits or any breed that has been cropped but would just like to share this story. I found a dog once that had a rubber band around its tail,it was infected and nasty, the owners were trying to kill the tail to crop it. I would much rather see a dog get this done at a vet than see the pain this little puppy went though. Also so I dont give the wrong impression I see nothing wrong with cropping as long as done by a professional. Also wanted to ad I think you guys answered his question well, I read this board occasonaly since there are so many caring people who really love their dogs. I know I dont have pits but love auspet and the people on all the boards are great. IP: Logged |
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goob Member Posts: 552 |
posted 02-11-2004 11:52 PM
quote: Nope, she just gets excited to see people when they come in and her tail wags all over, bangs against the walls or anything else she's near. This is what part of the wall by our kitchen looks like since it was scrubbed off just last week http://img2.photobucket.com/albums/v11/gooeydog/February/dapaintwalls.jpg And here's what her tail looks like, all the fur on the sides is gone http://img2.photobucket.com/albums/v11/gooeydog/February/datailcrack.jpg Another (you can't tell in the pics, but the actual split itself is like a little "x" in the tip of her tail) http://img2.photobucket.com/albums/v11/gooeydog/February/datilcrack.jpg Lucky for her, she's a spoiled housedog, and we make it a point to keep her out in the open when we come in and she's visiting with us.... if she was kenneled, her tail would be a real mess.
quote: Some APBTs don't have the thick ear leather that others do... these dogs would be prone to torn ears if they were used in hunting situations, or any situation that involved them traveling through wooded areas or brush (SAR, possibly even normal hiking or competitive tracking type situations). The dog I mentioned above with a torn ear is (again, though not the same dog, nor an APBT) a housedog who goes tearing through the overgrown field near our house several times a week, that's how she did that, so it's not just sport/working dogs that can have those problems. I know of someone else who had a pet APBT they had to have cropped at 4 yrs old when he got a tear in his ear that grew larger and developed into a large sore that covered almost his whole ear.
quote: Have you ever seen the way a dog behaves after it's had a normal (without complications) cropping done? Most are up wandering around and playing not long afterwards, possibly irritated by the itchy ears (especially if they've been taped), but certainly not traumatized by the procedure.
quote: Before spay/neutering became "the way to go", many dogs were left intact their entire lives, and lived well into old age without any major problems. The same is still true for many countries without the severe overpopulation problem the US has, dogs often aren't fixed unless there is a behavioral or physical reason for it, those dogs generally live long healthy lives. Spaying/neutering does cut down on the chances of some medical problems (eliminates some entirely), but is certainly not a guarantee of a longer, healthier life, just as cropping is not a guarantee that a hog hunting dog may not still suffer injuries to their ears while out catching hogs. It's a personal decision whether to take the alternative to having an intact (whether speaking in terms of reproductive organs or ears/tails) dog or not.
quote: I know many people who do rescue for various breeds, and few of them are so quick to condemn other dog owners without knowledge of those people, or their dogs' care.
quote: Umm... the reasons I gave ARE for bully breed dogs, not border collies (who aren't ever cropped anyway). Bully breed dogs are used for hunting feral pigs, and sometimes other large animals, among other things that would involve them traveling through the type of terrain I described.
quote: The dogs above aren't starved. That's obvious because they lack numerous traits of a starved dog (protruding hipbones and spine, sunken eyes, sparse or dry coat, among other things), and they have good muscle tone (note the muscle visible across their ribs), which starved dogs do not (the reason for that being that after a dog's body breaks down fat reserves for fuel, it starts breaking down muscle tissue). What they are is well conditioned and in shape. It takes good food and TONS of time to get a dog into that type of shape, not just starvation. Mypettherapydog: quote: They can take them off now, but it's a more complex surgery, as opposed to a little snip (puppies' bones are still not even hard at that age). I've read that it can cause problems with the feet to have them removed later on (something about the tendon that runs up the back of the foot losing strength), but don't know if it's just hype or there is actually truth to it. Are they back dewclaws that she's had trouble with, or fronts? Back ones are usually loose and floppy, just a flap of skin with a little pad and a claw, but front ones are usually attached with bone and ligament, just like a normal toe. The surgery to remove the attached types is similar to an amputation of a toe, whereas removal of a "floppy" one is easier and less invasive. Front dewclaw removals on older dogs can be hard too because they have to be stitched, and the stitches are in an easy area for the dog to have fun pulling them out. Do they stick out or generally stay in snug to her feet? Of our 5 dogs, only one has dewclaws off, and the others have never had a problem with theirs (they're mostly housedogs, but we do take them for walks and runs in the woods and fields around), though I'm a bit of a fanatic about keeping their nails short, and all their dewclaws are little more than "nubs". That said, if your pups' are catching on things, probably better to have them off before they cause problems than after one gets torn. Check with the vet, explain your worries, and see what he says. Also, if she needs anything else done that will require her to be put under (hips or knees x-rayed, teeth cleaned, etc), you can just have it all done at once and save her some trouble. Tye dyed: quote: It's largely a myth that cropping will prevent ear infections. If a dog is going to have ear infections it will, cropped or not. Also, the short crop most APBTs get opens up the ear to dirt, water, and other things that can cause ear problems. Ear cropping might help a heavy earred dog like a spaniel, but for a breed that's usually rose or prick eared naturally, it doesn't make much difference. Poor Goo still bears the emotional scars of her crop (which, btw was done before we ever got her), look at the overflowing anger she puts forth as she mauls this frisbee [This message has been edited by goob (edited 02-11-2004).] IP: Logged |
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MyPetTherapyDog Member Posts: 157 |
posted 02-12-2004 06:00 AM
Good Morning Goob: Thank you for the information on Ginger's Dewclaws. They are on her two back legs. They are not snug, they hang and flop. That is why they cause her problems when she runs around. They get caught on things, i.e., branches, brush etc.. She has to go to her vet for a regular check up in April. I shall inquire about it then. I don't want her to end up with other problems as you mentioned. So, I will inquire and weigh out my options and go from that point. Again, Thanks for the info. If I ever figure out how to scan pics on this site, I shall send some pics of my dogs. IP: Logged |
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honeybear Member Posts: 926 |
posted 02-12-2004 08:33 AM
goob, heres another thank you for the info on the dew claws - it sounds like the procedure is almost like when you declaw a cat. My husband brought this up about getting Wylies front dewclaws removed, because of several occasions she has turn thema dneven ripped one off. I know if it very painful for her, I try to keep them very short. After reading wahat you posted there is no way I am going ot have them removed at this stage of her life (she is 6) honeybear IP: Logged |
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cricket Member Posts: 51 |
posted 02-12-2004 08:58 AM
I hate it when people come along and seem to forget that these are dogs we are talking about. "Not people". I mean surely, we all love our dogs, but some people just take it entirely to far. If you consider ear cropping cruel, I guess all forms of surgery should be considered cruel. IP: Logged |
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goob Member Posts: 552 |
posted 02-12-2004 10:21 AM
quote: Definitely check with the vet about getting them taken off, though if she's never had a problem with the front, you might just leave those. Most dogs don't have rear dewclaws, but those that do often have to have them taken off, not too big of a deal. Honeybear, if keeping them short is working, then I wouldn't worry much about getting them taken off, but if she still catches them on stuff, it might be better to just get them off and be done with it. You can also try wrapping about 1" wide strips of vetwrap around her ankles over the dewclaw when you take her someplace you think she may get snagged, that'll keep the nail in and the tip of it covered if you leave them on (I do this when Goo wears her booties to go out in the snow because her dewclaw hangs up on the seam as I put them on). IP: Logged |
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Deus Member Posts: 136 |
posted 02-12-2004 10:35 AM
"I don't have children, but I can say w/certainty that if I had choosen that route, I would not have had my baby circumsized unless the doctor gave me contrete proof that it was for true health reasons, not b/c it is a standard 'look' for a penis." Before this thread was just funny now its getting scary. LOL
[This message has been edited by Deus (edited 02-12-2004).] IP: Logged |
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SpikesMommy New Member Posts: 9 |
posted 02-12-2004 10:46 AM
Well i can say this.. cruelity to me isnt cropping a puppys ears, cruelity to me keeping a beautiful dog, on a horrible chain, not keeping them current on shots and otherwise, throwing them in a backyard and forgetting about them,making them agressive for entertainment... im sorry, but thier are so many horrible things people do to animals... dogs, cats, PITTS ... so maybe you should focas on REAL CRUELITY like puppy mills and such ... and stop wasting our time with your petty nonsence . IP: Logged |
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True_Pits Member Posts: 373 |
posted 02-12-2004 02:13 PM
Here is her tail that she likes to bust open constantly. It is healing up now, but sooner or later she will smack it hard on something. Even when their is nothing to hit it on she will bang it against her leg and make it bleed.
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benny boy Member Posts: 392 |
posted 02-12-2004 02:23 PM
dang true that looks bad, is there anyway you could put some padding around it? or would she just chew it off? good luck, im prayin for ya IP: Logged |
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chickee Member Posts: 150 |
posted 02-12-2004 02:39 PM
Ya know, I actually had to get one of my adult male's tail cut off about a year or two ago. He was getting bit by something and kept wanting to bite at it because of the itch. It would never heal and it was infected because it's almost (if not) impossible to keep a dog from getting at his tail. Anyway, I opted for the amputation of his tail on the suggestion of the vet. She cut it short like the 2nd vertabre?? (like a Boxer cut) and really, it didn't seem to bother him at all. It for sure, doesn't bother him after the surgery or even now at this point in time. I would go through this again if I had any dogs who kept injurying their tail from wagging too hard. I've only had a couple dogs who bled, but nothing out of the ordinary, but if it GOT to that point of constant blood flying everywhere, and open wound, yes, I would have the tail docked. This is my own opinion and I'm sure some will not agree.  [This message has been edited by chickee (edited 02-12-2004).] IP: Logged |
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True_Pits Member Posts: 373 |
posted 02-12-2004 03:00 PM
Its wrapped a lot, thats usually how it starts healing up. But she will smack and wag her tail so much it gets rote up or falls off. It has to be done a certain way. And sometimes she will chew it off other times she wont. IP: Logged |
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texmex83 Member Posts: 42 |
posted 02-12-2004 06:22 PM
freedom, do you have /or ever had a working pit? you know such as a hog dog, if you did you would know how much eaiser it is to have them docked/cropped. Have you ever seen a dogs ears and tail ripped off by a hog?its not a very pretty sight ,or sound, if you had you would also want this done. And dont give me this crap about thats irresponsable too, because that is what our dogs live for, we are very careful we have cut vests and cut collars to prevent the dog from being sliced and diced,so **** off pendejo.  IP: Logged |
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True_Pits Member Posts: 373 |
posted 02-12-2004 07:22 PM
You know what I'm thinking Texmex we have told Freedom it is actually a danger and maybe a little irresponsible to NOT crop a working Pit Bulls ears and they just ignore it. Now that I think about it being in the state of ming they are they probably believe working a dog is cruel and other things like that. hey most likely are against hog hunting or anything like that. If they think a little painless surgery is cruel and irresponsible I'm sure they are agaisnt hunting. Goob you always seem to have intellegent post and thanks for telling Freedom like it is about my dogs. The truth I would NEVER starve my dogs. quote:That is exactly what I was trying to tell Freedom, the muscle will break down and deminish. I have seen owners baffled as to why their dogs are loosing muscle mass instead of gaining muscle. Well its obvious because they are not feeding the proper, the muscle builds up at first then begins to tear down and they don't understand why. it is obvious Freedom hasn't been invovled with any type of working dog. They do rescue thats great, but don't talk about things you don't know. A conditioned dog is going to be lean, muscled and in shape. A dog cannot do its work FAT as a blob and conditioning better prepares the dog. Even a dog a little too heavy can have problems, can become exhuasted, over heated and tire much more quickly. The purpose of conditioning is just that, to condition the dog and bring it to its peak. Get them to the usually lowest weight possible with out going to light and sacrificing the dogs ability. A couple Lbs under or over can make a huge difference. IP: Logged |
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the_maine_pitbull Member Posts: 320 |
posted 02-13-2004 06:06 AM
To start off, Freedom-- I for the most part agree with you. I don't think it is fair to have a dog all chopped to pieces just to make it look good. I do not believe in unneccesary procedures. However, a lot of Pitties do wag their tails so hard that they constantly bleed and are just provoking future problems, so I feel it is okay to take care of it by tail docking. I DO NOT see any reason to just crop ears and dock talis as a baby just for looks. Goob- is there anything that can be done to help this bloody tail mess. One of my friends has a four year old who started doing this recently. Se uses bag balm, he chews at it if she tapes it up. I would also like to mention that alot of people got defensive to this subject. I do not think it is fair to get a big immature arguement going over this, it is a person speaking their opinion and alot of it was sort of taken to a new level. Freedom, it is your choice if you wish to leave. You know that you are welcome here and know that whatever group or forum you go to, you will cross people that do not meet what you consider responsible, but it doesnt make those people any less of a person. On the other hand you will meet many people who feel the same way as you do about certain things. Besides what would the world be like if we all agreed? Angie IP: Logged |
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Angie Member Posts: 171 |
posted 02-13-2004 06:37 AM
"I came here looking for responsible Pit lover's and have not found that here" NOBODY here is "responsible Pit lover's"? Because you have not found any here, doesn't that mean that EVERYBODY at this forum are not responsible Pit lovers? Does this include Maine Pit Bull? [This message has been edited by Angie (edited 02-13-2004).] IP: Logged |
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the_maine_pitbull Member Posts: 320 |
posted 02-13-2004 10:57 AM
Angie-- Where did that come from? What was it suppose to mean if I am included in that or not? Funny how I try to keep the peace and it seems as though that was an invitation for attack or something. I replied to that message this morning, and for second, no one on this forum knows me so how can anyone determine whether I am responsible or not? Not very nice of you my dear.. Angie H. IP: Logged |
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Angie Member Posts: 171 |
posted 02-13-2004 11:16 AM
The ONLY reason I asked about YOU, is because you were the only one that said you agreed with Freedom. I didn't mean anything by it, so don't jump to conclusions. It just meant that Freedom is accusing EVERYONE in this forum of being irresponsible... even people .... that agree with him/her? I wasn't trying to pick on you or anything, just trying to make a point. Sorry. IP: Logged |
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True_Pits Member Posts: 373 |
posted 02-13-2004 11:53 AM
quote: Exactly, FREEDOM knows no one on this forum personally yet they are accusing everyone as being irresponsible. That is the quote Angie had at the top of her post NO RESPONSIBLE OWNERS, which means everybody, all the people Freedom doesn't know. IP: Logged |
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Angie Member Posts: 171 |
posted 02-13-2004 12:00 PM
Yes and the ONLY reason I put maine pit bull in my post was just to make a point... I hope she gets that now and realizes that I wasnt sayin anything bad about her. Just that freedom says everyone is irresponsible and so what about the people that agree with him/her about the ears/tails... (such as maine) are they/is she irresponsible also? thats all i was tryin to say. IP: Logged |
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chickee Member Posts: 150 |
posted 02-13-2004 12:05 PM
I understood exactly what you meant the 1st time I read it. It wasn't that hard to understand. IP: Logged |
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Angie Member Posts: 171 |
posted 02-13-2004 12:08 PM
Thanks. IP: Logged |
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Jas Moderator Posts: 536 |
posted 02-13-2004 12:18 PM
quote: I didn't see it as immature - people have been quite mature in expression their opinions in this thread. All opinions aside I suspect most people are more bothered about being called an irresponsible owner. Which is simply inaccurate. IP: Logged |
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Jas Moderator Posts: 536 |
posted 02-13-2004 12:20 PM
I think its safe to say we can now drop the topic and close it. Everyone has said their part I see no sense in taking this further. IP: Logged |
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the_maine_pitbull Member Posts: 320 |
posted 02-13-2004 06:16 PM
Jas-- maybe it is good to close it. Angie, sorry about jumping down your throat it has been a really hard day today for me. Having some family issues and everythign is going crazy in my life right now. Again, sorry. I do understand what you were saying just wasn't in the best of moods and took it all wrong. I don't so much think it is immature what people have expressed in their opinions, I feel it is very very imortant to have heated topics because of the fact that some people see things differently after. I jsut didn't think it was fair for us to say what its right or wrong in this situation considering it is all just a matter of opinion really. You like cropped ears, crop them, you don't then don't. It really is a matter of preference, not what is right or wrong. Sorry I replied I just wanted Angie to know I get her point of what she was saying and to apologize... Angie H. IP: Logged |
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