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 Ampt Are Less Ahressive Then Amstaffs
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| Author | Topic: Ampt Are Less Ahressive Then Amstaffs |
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Honeypitts New Member  Posts: 2 |
posted 01-08-2004 11:19 PM
 
In my experience with both ampt and amstaffs i find that the amstaffs are alot more vicious towards other dogs when walking in a park and i find that they dont get along well with other people and children i have had many of both breeds and i will have to stick with the ampt because i have small children and one on the way and i dont feel safe leaving my kid alone with an amstaff but i will leave my kid alone with a ampt because my ampt will protect the kid when my amstaff tried to bite it which one would you prefer around your children ? please coment IP: Logged |
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MikeIPK Member  Posts: 31 |
posted 01-08-2004 11:30 PM
I suppose you should do more research prior to buying/taking in a dog. The APBT and Amstaff when bred/raised properly are very stable with children. I have had both and have had them for quite a few years now. I have 5 children and they have been nothing more than loved by both! IP: Logged |
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True_Pits Member Posts: 373 |
posted 01-09-2004 01:34 PM
Really? I fond that most AST have been bred to be docile around other dogs/animals. Some do still have dog aggression or try to bite strange dogs. But then again so do APBTs. All of mine are aggressive to other dogs, or want to fight them. With the exception of my house dog. Well she still goes after strange dogs and some other female APBTs I have. Its true APBT are very stable and good with children, but they are not all this way unfortunatly. Just like you can't expect all AST to be stable, BYBs and stupid people have gotten a hold of them. I'm actually starting to see more of them when I used to only see APBTs and Rotts in my town. Most the AST I have met were people aggressive to some degree. I don't blame that on the fact they are AST I blame it on their stupid owners/breeders. People get them because they think they look cool and don't know how to handle/train them. Or bought from an unreliable breeder. Some purposly try to make the dog "protective". I do find that they have a more "fragile" temperment. Meaning that is screwed the slightest bit you can bet they will be aggressive towards people, I don't know why this is. It is strange, I have met many poorly bred APBTs, even ones bred out of people aggressive parents and ghetto trash in the city with these dogs (APBTs) but theirs are still usually friendly. Even when they say "my dogs a guard dog" or "I HAVE TO keep my Pit to protect me" they still usually aren't aggressive. The AST they have usually are, they seem timid and will bite "unprovoked" I'm sure something sets them off ie the wrong look, movement. The same things goes for the ones I've seen in the pounds. Where did you aquire your dog? Wouldn't the breeder gaurentee the dogs sound temperament? Take the dog back if it turned out wrong? Was it unsocialized? [This message has been edited by True_Pits (edited 01-09-2004).] IP: Logged |
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MikeIPK Member Posts: 31 |
posted 01-09-2004 06:42 PM
Not sure about your experience with the AST, but the experience I have had with them is nothing like you say. Being a breeder of BOTH worlds and in the dogs for quite a few years now. I do NOT see any difference in the human aggression of the breed. I do seee an Amstaff being more protective(Loyal) to the family home. I do not see them as a dog that simply bites UNPROVOKED! My red noses were definitly more aggressive towards dog. Hand down their was no comparison, but the human aggression factor between the two is very close, at best the AST is more protective of its family as said before. If you want to go to the BYB's to make an opinion of the breed temperments. I would still go with the Amstaff. I live near DEtroit and the APBT's I have worked with in shelters, taken in personally and confronted have been extremely human aggressive, although I would have never based this type of APBT as a basis for making statements of general temperments! IP: Logged |
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True_Pits Member Posts: 373 |
posted 01-09-2004 07:05 PM
Thats just it you HAVEN'T had my experiance. Detroit thats a terrible place for pits and yes many are aggressive there and abused. I think that is one of the cities with the largest APBT pop and the dogs are usually immediatly detroyed upon arrival. I'v had one APBT tried to bite me and only seen one other with bad fear aggression. (that was my neighbors) Another who would just bite anyone who tried to pet him. if I could only name all the AST and some of the AST/APBT crosses that I've come across. You just walk past these dogs and they lash out and try to bite you. You can just be walking down the street in a normal fashion. All I know is I'm scared of these dogs, that they may cause a breed ban, or serious injury to people. BYBs ruin breeds. They are breeding these dogs for their "cool looks" and attack capabilities. Actually I know this guy who hangs around a lot with his dogs and he had APBTs at one point but they were just too friendly for him to he got a couple ASTs. His buddy has Rotts tho and they even debate who's dog is a meaner or better dog. "Amstaff being more protective(Loyal) to the family home." "at best the AST is more protective of its family" If thise is true then maybe these people have taken advantage of this? maybe used their natural instinct to be a good protector of their humans to making them want to get everything. The last male APBT that I said tried to bite people who would pet him was made this way. I don't believe he was the most stable, but the people would want him to bite and praise him for acting protective and egg him on. The guy who got the AmStaffs. He would do the same thing with his APBTs except he got more violent. Once he kicked the dog in the side/ribs because it wouldn't be protective when people were walking buy and talking to the dog and things like that. The APBT never got anymore meaner and one of his would hide behind him when people approached. Which I'm sure earned her a worse beating. I don't think too many people even noticed what he was doing when he was kicking that APBT but I sure did and gave him a peice. Thats how I started talking with the moron to begin with. Now he has the dgs he's always wanted, the irresponsible moron takes them out right on one of the main streets where everybodies got to walk to he can have his sick pleasure. IP: Logged |
Jas Moderator Posts: 536 |
posted 01-10-2004 12:17 AM
quote: Most healthy dogs raised properly around children and in a family setting should be good with kids. but WHY would you leave small children alone with any dog??? Regardless of the breed children should NEVER be left alone with any dog. IP: Logged |
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qna Member Posts: 10 |
posted 01-10-2004 09:31 AM
I have to say TRUE PITS i have had the exact opposite experiance with apbt and ast i have owned both and have never had a problem with human aggressive dogs my apbt was even more dog agg. IP: Logged |
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ignergehl Member Posts: 174 |
posted 01-10-2004 07:48 PM
It's a very old known fact concerning bulldogs that a sure sign of a cur(a mutt or dog with no game) will be the dog that snaps and snarls,and acts aggressivly towards humans, especially children. A REAL, game bred pit is normally the most even-tempered dog you would ever meet.Considering that it is other breeds that are mainly to blame for such behavior, it would not surprise me that AST's are more human aggressive, but you couldn't make me beleive that they are more dog-aggressive. And also you may have known one or two am-staffs and one or two- pit bull and those two particular staffies were more outwardly aggressive, but you need to have known more than that to say with authority that am-staffs are more aggressive than pits....It's those kind of assumptions that have created the false reputation that pittys have today. [This message has been edited by ignergehl (edited 01-10-2004).] IP: Logged |
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MikeIPK Member Posts: 31 |
posted 01-10-2004 08:44 PM
That is exactly what my problem was with the statements made. I was shocked that anyone with experience in this breed (As they are ONE breed) would go to the point of trying to make one sound worse than the other. In Detroit, We have a majority of APBT's that are ADBA registered. These dogs are in the paper every day. 12-15 ads per week on average. $50.00-$500.00 with papers. The majority are very cheap. We are severely over populated with them. So I would expect as a rational person, that we WOULD have more problems with the APBT in Detroit. The numbers simply show so many of them that they are bound to have a certain percentage of bad dogs/owners. I see 3-5 Amstaff litters a year in the paper. So if one breed has 1000 dogs in a one mile ratios and the other has 5 dogs, Who is going to have the most problems? The numbers tell us which is going to be see n the most and which would have the most problems. In her area they may have a good mix of the two, although in Detroit we don't. We are severely out numbered and we fight BSL alot! If anyone goes off on any breed without thinking first, They too will loose their dogs. It is not just APBT's on the target here. It is several breeds and it will spread if it is let go. People need to stop the seperation among ourselves. Get over who is better than who, It simply isn't gonna matter when they are all dead! Just for a little history lesson. My line is Ruffian. If they started as Colby, Tudor, ect... Why would the temperment be any different? How could it have changed if it was entirely stable? After the past 35 years of line breeding/in breeding, Why would the line become less stable? These dogs when raised in normal loving homes are great. I have had alot of them (APBT's/Amstaffs)and I have never had anyone call me up and tell me that the dog was human aggressive. I talk to many of the people who have my pups from both types. N one has ever told me anythign about Human aggression or I would have told them to destroy the dog! IP: Logged |
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True_Pits Member Posts: 373 |
posted 01-11-2004 12:59 PM
I'm not assuming if your post is directed to me Ig. I have known probably thousands of APBT including plenty owned by the wrong types of people. I have known probably less than 100 AmStaff though but the good majority are people aggressive in some degree. I said I wouldn't judge the ENTIRE breed by my experiences in the first post I made. MikeIPX said they can be more protective. Which I have noticed but maybe in a different way. Not necessarily protective but the ones I mean (not the aggressive ones) are more reserved with people. They are ok with meeting you and wag their tail but don't seem as sociable as the APBT. I have one APBT that is actually that way, she doesn't really care for other people just me. The AST seems more that way, they know who their family is and are very loyal to them. I wouldn't rule out that these idiots are able to twist that to their own desires. You could almost do it to any dog that is alert. If they see someone and their ears perk up and they even bark you could say "get them" and shake push them like the people I see doing it. Then their dog learns thats what they should do when they see people and get it through positive reinforcement. They act that way to everyone and can even become more aggressive which the owner just loves. Thats how some of the APBT have also been made aggressive. Also qna "my apbt was even more dog agg" I said APBT are usually prone to more dog aggression than the AmStaff although there are plenty Staffs who are dog aggressive. The aggression has been mostly bred out of them, Staff breeders bred more docile dogs. Even some APBT breeders do too. They have gens and gens of non aggressive in the least APBT for the entirety of that dogs life because they don't breed aggressive dogs. Some of those owners even believe dog aggression isn't natural due to their experience with breeding only non aggressive dogs. In my area their is still by far more APBTs. But in the last 2 years actually the AmStaff population has suddenly risen and really fast. Now its not too uncommon to see them where as before I wouldn't one except everyone in awhile. And it seems that the people owning them here are only haveing them for their image and protection. One even goes to far as to say the AST is the Real Pit Bull whatever they mean by that. Or they say better than Pit Bulls just because the Pit Bull isn't as imppressive looking to them. I'v even seen just a couple this guy bred CROSSED to a ROTTWEILER, he is such an IDIOT. He said it would give them more strenght and power and they would be unstoppable. I get so tired of these creeps, its kind of been this way with APBT for a while but now the AmStaff is the new thing. I seen a nice blue fawn male the other day, think they said he was 9 months. Two men had him who are co-owners. It was good to see normal people owning the breed still. Here we are just out number by plain morons, maybe we should restrict what kind of people are allowed to breed. I never said that either was worse, or that either was better. That would be a hard comparison and would depend on what the person wanted the dog for. "These dogs when raised in normal loving homes are great. I have had alot of them (APBT's/Amstaffs)and I have never had anyone call me up and tell me that the dog was human aggressive. I talk to many of the people who have my pups from both types. N one has ever told me anythign about Human aggression or I would have told them to destroy the dog!" This is true, exactly my point. Its the owners not the breeds. And could even be the breeders if the dog did have a poor temperemnt and was then bred and passed on because its temp. prob happened to be genetic. IP: Logged |
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True_Pits Member Posts: 373 |
posted 01-11-2004 01:03 PM
Maybe I should have said a good portion of the Staffs I met but not the majority are human aggressive. I rethought it too and like I said its not the breed itself. But when it comes to MOST the Staffs I meet its people wanting them for guard dogs and these same people attempt breeding and sell them to basically the same type of people so its all just a cycle. Then those people breed their mean dogs, sell and then so on and so forth. IP: Logged |
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MikeIPK Member Posts: 31 |
posted 01-11-2004 01:40 PM
That is very unfortunate that it is happening. I haven't heard alot about it but I know it is very possible. With relation to gameness I could see the point of less game, more H/G. I also deal with a small net of breeders who believe to stay with in the line. We find no reason to bring more bad blood in. We know what we have and are very consistant with our litters, so there is no reason to change these things. IP: Logged |
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