posted 12-16-2003 10:29 AM         

What is your dogs bloodline? Do you have a pic? NO you cant stunt her growth. Usually they will be about the same size as the parents.

posted 12-16-2003 03:07 PM         

"If you have a male and a female to produce pups, then if they are both red nose then there is a better chance of producing more red nose pups then black nose"

If you bred a red nose to a red nose then you can ONLY get red nose dogs. Red nose is a recessive trait therefore to express it they must have only the recessive red trait and NOT the dominant black trait therefore they cannot produced black nose dogs.

"Just like if you have one parent as a red nose and one a black, most of the pups will probably turn out to have the nose color of the parent with the stronger trait."

This may not necessarily be true. If you bred a red nose to a Dominant(stonger) trait black nose, but the black nose carries the red nose genes recessivly then more pups may come out black nose. On the other hand if you bred two black noses then there will usually be less red nose dogs in the litter, sometimes pretty close to equal though.

"there are CERTAIN BLOODLINES that are MORE LIKELY to carry the red nose trait"

This is true but doesn't really help. Even though certain lines are prone to red nose dogs, a red nose dog can appear in almost any line. Woods/Wilder/hempill are prodominantly red and so are some others but that still won't help to establish this pups bloodline because rednose can appear in any line. Bloodlines you would narrow your search down to would be practically all of them since almost every single bloodline throughs red and black nose dogs.

YES YOU CAN STUNT A PUPS GROWTH!! just like any other living being a dog is no different in this area. you can stunt their growth by starving them to keep them close to a certain size. If you underfeed them they won't have the proper nutrition to grow to there full potential. I knew some one who had stunted some pups growth. They didn't read over 30-5lbs. The littermates and parents were bigger. Sometimes in a litter you will get dogs smaller than littermates or parents, but not EVERYTIME you get a pup. Even when he took the biggest healthiest puppy it would still end up smaller due to poor nutrition.
Also a severe case of illness can stunt a pups growth, but its not really something you can do just unfortunate. Sometimes a pup doesn't recover completly from a severe illness and never reaches the size it should have.

Generally dogs are close to the size of their parents but you have to know whats behind them. They may have had a grandparent of a different size which can be expressed through the pup. You can even have a through back to more than a couple generations. Some of thise can be seen on my "Offspring Size" thread. The line was in the upper 30s and lower 40s until a 55lbs female was crossed to the line then larger dogs pop up every now and then, but usually they are through one of her dauthers, who are only between 40-45lbs themselves.

[This message has been edited by True_Pits (edited 12-16-2003).]

posted 12-16-2003 04:34 PM         

"If you bred a red nose to a red nose then you can ONLY get red nose dogs. Red nose is a recessive trait therefore to express it they must have only the recessive red trait and NOT the dominant black trait therefore they cannot produced black nose dogs."
My brother's female will drop a litter on Dec. 25. Both the male and female are red noses. They both each have one parent from Boudreaux bloodline. I was told the Boudreaux bloodline is black nose. So my brother is telling me that his red nose will have some black nose pups. I will post later on to let you know if two red noses had any black nose pups or not.

"This may not necessarily be true. If you bred a red nose to a Dominant(stronger) trait black nose, but the black nose carries the red nose genes recessivly then more pups may come out black nose. On the other hand if you bred two black noses then there will usually be less red nose dogs in the litter, sometimes pretty close to equal though."
In my post I said that "most of the pups will probably turn out to have the nose color of the parent with the STRONGER TRAIT." I think you just said the same thing I did. You said, dominant (STRONGER)trait black nose may have more pups black nose. Thats basically what I just said.

posted 12-16-2003 09:02 PM         

Boudreaux are mostly black nose dogs and have black coats. Thats true but they can't produce black nose pups because these two particular dogs didn't get the black nose trait otherwise they would have a black nose. You can use a punnett square as an example.

Black would be the dominant A and red recessive a.

A red nose dog would look like aa. aa X aa is going to give all the pups aa which would make them all red noses. If their parents had black noses but produced red nose dogs then their parents looked like Aa and Aa. Because that would make some pups AA being black nosed, some Aa also being black nose but carrying the red nose recessivly and being able to produce red noses and some pups aa being red nose and only able to produce red nose. Animals showing a recessive trait DON'T have the dominant form of the trait therefore can't pass it on like a recessive trait. If they had the dominant trait then they would express the dominant color. Its really simple.
Dec. 25th XMAS pups!!! Wonder if they will come on time?

Two blue eyed people will have blue eyed children. Think of it like that.

""This may not necessarily be true. If you bred a red nose to a Dominant(stronger) trait black nose, but the black nose carries the red nose genes recessivly then more pups may come out black nose. On the other hand if you bred two black noses then there will usually be less red nose dogs in the litter, sometimes pretty close to equal though."
In my post I said that "most of the pups will probably turn out to have the nose color of the parent with the STRONGER TRAIT." I think you just said the same thing I did. You said, dominant (STRONGER)trait black nose may have more pups black nose. Thats basically what I just said."

posted 12-17-2003 06:36 AM         

So what if a mom has green eyes and a dad has hazel eyes? Can they have a child with brown eyes?

Benny boy, I dont think starting your pup on adult food early will effect anything. Pro Pac is a good food to feed your dog or Science Diet. If you have to feed your dog a cheaper dog food the best one will probably be Purina. (told from my vet). My dog weighs about 65-70lbs. She just made 13 months. She is on the website above. (Shianne) She is huge. Anyway, goodluck with your dog.

posted 12-17-2003 02:28 PM         

"Yes, the pups should be here on time. Baby is getting very big and her belly is almost on the ground! I will let you know if she does have any black nose pups or not. They will be beautiful. Take a look at her www.freewebs.com/pisciottiskennels/
Her name is Baby.
So what if a mom has green eyes and a dad has hazel eyes? Can they have a child with brown eyes?"

Be sure to let us know if they are on time a dog can go a day ealier or later from their due date just like people, if they are more than a few days late this can be a warning sign. Sometimes it just means you miscaculated, but its always good to have a vet check especially if the dog is acting abnormally. That would be really neat to have xmas pups though!! Give them xmas names?!
Maybe the eye color was a bad expample. The genes for eye color are actually very complex and this has been discovered recently. Very little is known about Hazel eye coloring as well as gray eye coloring. There are more genes affecting eye color that we are unaware of.
The answer to the question is YES they can produce a child with brown eyes. Even though there isn't much information on the Hazel eye color it is still probable to say that it is dominant over GREEN eyes. The Hazel eye color is "tricky", for lack of better words. It is a greenish-brown color. Brown is dominant over green and DOMINANTS the green genes so the child has brown eyes. Green is actually a "dominant" gene over the blue eye color. As you can see we are talking about complex genetics rather than a something more simple like nose color. What you are saying is more along the lines of a "dominant" color to a recessive color. I never mentioned previously in the "offspring thread" about the nose colors of the two I'm planing on breeding. Now I will the female is a red nose and the male is a "black nose" he doesn't have a true black nose but a really strange color. His nose is a darker color, is almost like a dark gray over a tan. You can see tan color under his black. I don't really know about his nose color but it must be a more complex trait or maybe a type of intermediate dominance. The recessive trait can clearly be seen underlying the dominant trait it is so weird. I wish I had a good picture of his nose....lol Maybe I could consider his nose color to be like the hazel eye color and it would still be dominant over recessive traits which of course it will be dominant over her red nose although he is capable of producing red noses and will produce both nose colors. All the puppies is his litter are capable the sire was red nose and the dam black nose. Some pups were red noses and the my dog had a black nose and so did his bro they are both heterozygous dominant however so they can still produce red nosed pups.

If Baby has any pups with black noses then something went wrong and some dog must have got her or there is something screwy going on. One of the most terrible things (and funny) is when really dumb people breed dogs and they are so stupid they try to hang papers off 2 red nose parents to a black nose pup(s), then no matter what they absoluty refuse the DNA testing....lol Even though the buyer would pay for it. It is one of the ways a guy here got caught hanging papers. He had been doing it for a long time though and was lucky until he tried that.

I was thinking about coat and nose colors lastnite. I was just looking at all the litters I've seen and I think maybe I'll start a thread on that next if anyone wants to post. One thing I was really thinking about is Seal colored dogs. Kind of like Hazel eyes again? Or something strange. The litter of seal dogs would illustrate Angie's point about having more black noses than red noses in a litter. I wasn't disagreeing with that ealier, but saying it isn't always true. Just thought I should clear that up the genetics behind the dogs play a role. There will also be a breeding to show that just because one dog has the dominant gene doesn't mean more pups will have the gene. For the details check out the other thread.

posted 12-18-2003 05:39 AM         

"If Baby has any pups with black noses then something went wrong and some dog must have got her or there is something screwy going on."
No dog got her. She is an inside dog and she doesnt stay outside for very long. And the yard is fenced in. There is no way for another dog to get in or out. Also they would know if another dog got into the yard bc there is a male in the back that stays in the kennel and he lets them know if anything is near. And there is nothing "screwy going on"

"You don't know what parvo is but yet you have a kennel? WOW....."

It is not MY kennel. I am just trying to help sell the pups. Sorry that I gave the wrong impression.

posted 12-18-2003 08:43 AM         

You did say it was your brothers kennel but every pet or dog owner should be informed on the basic dogs diseases. Of course they may not know every thing that can plague a dog, but should know about sucj things as parvo, distemper, ect and give there dogs vaccs for those. It is also good to know some of the warning signs and how not to get them confused with others. Coxidia is also another one to look out for.

I didn't say a dog did actually get to her. I wasn't aware of how she is housed. I was only specualting. Since there is no way for two red nose dogs to produce black nosed pups. Its just simple genetics learned in middle school and probably repeated in high school somewhere. I did look at the link though and even your bother knows they will be red nosed. "They will be red, red noses, short & Stocky and ADBA registered." Don't forget short and stocky...lol those will be some of the greatest pups everyone should rush to get one. Many people breed red nose dogs together because they know they'lll get red nose pups to peddle because people believe they are better, special or even RARE. This woman had a pit she could no longer keep a family member told me about and I was going to take it and foster it. He told me all of what she said which included He is a type of rare Pit, a rare red nose.

What type of kennel does your bother have? Not much can really be told by the site. Or at least I couldn't tell.

posted 12-18-2003 10:03 AM         

[This message has been edited by Angie (edited 12-18-2003).]

posted 12-18-2003 01:52 PM         

quote:

---

No dog got her. She is an inside dog and she doesnt stay outside for very long. And the yard is fenced in. There is no way for another dog to get in or out. Also they would know if another dog got into the yard bc there is a male in the back that stays in the kennel and he lets them know if anything is near. And there is nothing "screwy going on"

---

posted 12-19-2003 03:08 PM         

"It is not a REAL kennel. Thats just what he came up with for the name of his site. He just wanted to put pics of his dogs on a website for show." What do you man by real kennel"
What is it if its not a REAL kennel? Just a website to show his dogs and pups that he breeds? A kennel is a having dogs and breeding them. It could be a boarding kennel if you board dogs for people. If you breed dogs then you have a breeding kennel.

"And my brother thinks there will be black nose pups in the litter." If your brother is ignorant on breeding of dogs then maybe he should rethink breeding before he has aquired all the knowledge to properly do so. Please believe I'm not insulting him in anyway, ANYONE who takes on breeding takes on a BIG responsibility and should ALWAYS be educated on the breed as much as possible. I HOPE he does know what parvo is!! If he doesn't know about the red nose subject what else is he unaware of? What does he breed his dogs for? If his girlfriend put that maybe she knows more about the dogs? Is she the one doing the breedings and such?

posted 12-19-2003 07:47 PM         

benny boy have you taken any pics yet?

posted 12-19-2003 10:44 PM         

Me and Angie agreed on that from the start. red nose is recessive so two two black nose dogs can produce red nosed pups. Often times they do. Even if they don't have a strong heritage of red nose dogs they could still be a possible carrier of the gene. Also the same for BLUE dogs. Blue is recessive, there are lot of blues out there that are peddled and supposed "rare" when they no longer are because of over popularity, like the red nose dogs went through for some time. A true blue is rare, that is a blue who just pops up and comes totally unexpected and from a lineage where no blue dogs are traced. Since the genes are recessive two dogs can be carriers and only have a blue when bred to that other dog that you never expected to have the gene either. Black and tans as well.

"Some people are making a big deal bc my brother's website has the word 'kennel' in it. I tried to explain that this website is just for my brother and he just named it that bc he wanted to .. not because he has a registered kennel. The only reason that the website was posted, was because I wanted to show pics of the dogs."

I wouldn't care if the name "kennel" wasn't in the name. It could be called "Purebred Pits" or anything. As you said he has bred Baby and I think you said this is the 2nd time so I was wondering what he breeds his Pit Bulls for as there are different reasons and there isn't much detail on the site. I never thought he was a registered kennel not with CKC registered dogs. Or does that registry have kennel registry now?? I know they have changed some over the years. They are still a sham in my book even if they decide to close there registry now. If he is breeding then he has a "kennel" or is a "breeder" thats what I ment.

"i was told that Baby will have all red nose pups.. isnt that great!? A lot of people around here want red noses anyway. So thats cool."

Actually this is a "problem" its been almost an epidemic of sorts. Maybe not in your case because he has good homes for them, but people have been breeding and over breeding red nose dogs because they beleive them better and some sort of rarity. Its not SO BAD anymore and the blues have now gone through the same things. But many dogs have had to suffer, and many poorly bred dogs by back yard breeders who only wanted a buck were bred despite health and temperment problems. It is a terrible mess. Now there are even people actually, and purposefully breeding albino dogs as we saw the website posted on this forum. Its crazy breeding a genetically defected dog to sell for a wad of cash. It makes me so sad not to mention fustrated as there isn't much to stop bad breeders we can only educate others about where not to aquire a dog. Believe me it does work if more people would do it.

posted 12-22-2003 08:39 PM         

Males...

Females...