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| Author | Topic: papers |
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linzy Member  Posts: 11 |
posted 12-11-2003 04:57 PM
 
i asked my question on the all dog types board but no one wanted to answer so hopefully ill have more luck here. im getting a puppy and the breeder tells me he doesnt have papers for the mother as he got her from a rescue shelter. dont bitches get spayed at shelters? if this is the case then she wouldnt of had the pups. is it normal for a rescue shelter not to give papers? or do u think this is just an ezcuse and maby the pup isnt a pedigree. im not bothered if it is or not as the pup is a cutie iv fallen in love with her. thanks linzy IP: Logged |
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daddyfs Member Posts: 86 |
posted 12-11-2003 05:09 PM
i thought they did get spayed and neutered at the shelters... but i wonder if they do that to all the dogs.. i mean the family pet that jus got there.. what if the owner doesnt want them fixed, and comes to pick them up..?? IP: Logged |
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Meka Member Posts: 114 |
posted 12-11-2003 05:14 PM
ALL shelters require that the dog be spayed or neutered. I have a couple of rescue dogs & 3 rescue cats. It's one of the "musts" when adopting from a shelter. Now, one of my cats, & one of my dogs, weren't altered at the shelter, but I had until a month before they were estimated to come into heat again, to have them spayed. This guy is either using this as an excuse, or the dog may be stolen, or not even purebred. It could've come from a breeder that didn't have papers on one or more of his/her dogs.... There are a few possiblities as to why he doesn't have papers on the dogs. IP: Logged |
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Meka Member Posts: 114 |
posted 12-11-2003 05:15 PM
They will hold a dog or cat for 3-5 days. If the owner hasn't claimed it with in that time period, most shelters will spay or neuter the animal. But, like I said before, some shelters won't alter the animal. They just require that it be done before the animal comes back into heat. (In this case, a male will have to be done with in a certain amount of time). I guess it could just depend on where you're from..... IP: Logged |
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kricks Member Posts: 43 |
posted 12-11-2003 05:17 PM
I can't speak for all shelters world wide, but I can tell you that in the Salt Lake City, Utah area. All shelters will sterilize any animal before it is released to the public for adoption. Now there is a waiting period that every stray has to go through before they can be adopted, this is the period when the owner can claim it. If it isn't claimed by the time that period is over, the animal will be sterilized and avaialble to adopt. I think your breeder is pulling your leg. Th mother either isn't papered or he is to lazy to do the paperwork for your pup. IP: Logged |
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linzy Member Posts: 11 |
posted 12-11-2003 11:25 PM
thanks for all your help i thought somthing wasnt quite right. not that it realy matters to me if shes pedigree or not to be honest but it was just niggling me a bit anyway thanks for your help again linz IP: Logged |
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Samsintentions Member Posts: 944 |
posted 12-12-2003 08:12 AM
Usually they allways get spayed and neutered, I would check, you may have been scammed. IP: Logged |
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Freedom Member Posts: 62 |
posted 12-12-2003 10:36 AM
Why would you be buying from this person anyways? Breeding a dog from the shelter is just wrong. You have no idea what type of dog's make up it's ancestors. For all you know this dog from the shelter could have HD, or some type of hereditary disease. Just doesn't make sense. IP: Logged |
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ignergehl Member Posts: 174 |
posted 12-12-2003 04:30 PM
The shelters in my area give you a coupon to get your newly adopted dog or cat fixed, with the warning that failure to do so can result in fines or confiscation of the animal.Fact is,once you have the critter out of their sight, there is little they can, or will do, and people sometimes do breed them. Some folks use the papers of a deceased animal and apply them to the adoptee, if the decriptions match. Its one of many ways that unscrupulous people trick unsuspecting pet buyers. That any animal that has been in the pound would be bred is a complete backfire of all that the shelter workers are trying to do, and is a travesty. IP: Logged |
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linzy Member Posts: 11 |
posted 12-13-2003 04:49 PM
freedom. why wouldnt i buy from this breeder weather this dog is pure bread or not im not botherd i just wanted to know if what he was saying was true or not. what if every one thought the same as u and didnt have one of the pups then what would happen to them? they would end up in the pound probably. instead im offering the pup a loving home. as for the diseases u say it may have i will be taking the dog to the vets im sure they will let me know if the pup is healthy. IP: Logged |
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True_Pits Member Posts: 373 |
posted 12-13-2003 05:23 PM
Well there are a number of reasons you SHOULDN'T buy the dog. Of course its your choice and your right too I understand. Reasons: #2 The reason their are so MANY dogs in shelters is because of breeders like this person. Even if you give YOUR pup a loving home doesn't mean the rest of the litter will end up so lucky. Not that this guy cares, if people buy the dog they'll continue breeding the dogs. The rest of litter will probably end up in the pound! Most dogs don't live to see their 2nd birthday, sad but true. #3 Thats great your taking the dog to the vet. What if the dog has a disease passed from its mother?? What if it dies a few days after you get it. The byb breeder won't care about the lousy pups he's bred, he already has your dollar. If it has some sort of genetic disease what will you do with the pup? What if it must be put to sleep? You lost the pup and your money went to the guy who's going to breed another litter. #4 While there are many nice, and good dog in a pound, a good majority are there for a reasons. They may have temperment problems and other various problems. Sometimes caused by the owners, and sometimes dropped off for really lame reasons, on the otherhand these dogs probably came from a BYB and may have genetic temperment problems, then if that dog is bred the bad temperment is passed on. #4 Since this person is lame and stupid enough to breed a shelter dog I know they don't really care about the breed or have very valuable knowledge all breeders need. The dogs obviously are not titled (maybe not so important) NOT HEALTH TESTED, and NOT TEMPERMENT TESTED, hasn't proven it should be bred at all!! There are probably more reasons but these are the main ones. If you truly DO NOT care where your dog comes from or if it is pure or not, why not consider adopting a shelter dog? Why go to a BYB, not just any BYB but one claiming to be a SHELTER DOG. It is the very exact same thing. In actuality there is probably more of a chance to get a healthy puppy from a shelter than from a breeder like that. Because when a female is brought in pg or with small pups those pups receive care and health checks and everything else they need. Minus the genetic health test and a true temperment test. Bad tempers sometimes don't show until later. Even if this person was wise enough to worm and give the pups shots genetic disorder don't usually appear later. The irony in this is that a dog was given a second chance in the pound but taken home buy the wrong person. A greedy BYB looking for a cheap breeding machine... "freedom. why wouldnt i buy from this breeder weather this dog is pure bread or not im not botherd i just wanted to know if what he was saying was true or not." I don't think anyone is saying you shouldnt get a mix breed or anything like that. Not from this piticualr "breeder" if that low life can even be called that. More like puppy mill. hmmm a "breeder" who lies, I wouldnt want to buy anything from someone who lies!! [This message has been edited by True_Pits (edited 12-13-2003).] IP: Logged |
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Freedom Member Posts: 62 |
posted 12-13-2003 05:39 PM
"freedom. why wouldnt i buy from this breeder weather this dog is pure bread or not im not botherd i just wanted to know if what he was saying was true or not. what if every one thought the same as u and didnt have one of the pups then what would happen to them? they would end up in the pound probably. instead im offering the pup a loving home. as for the diseases u say it may have i will be taking the dog to the vets im sure they will let me know if the pup is healthy."
IP: Logged |
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linzy Member Posts: 11 |
posted 12-14-2003 04:16 PM
thank you true_pitts for explaining things too me. i will definately be having a think about what you have said and probly will not get the pup. freedom im sorry i took what u said the wrong way i can now see what you were trying to say. this is my first time getting a dog so as you can see just by me being on this sight i am trying to learn as much as i can. im still going to be worried about the pup now if i dont have it incase nobody else has it. it may end up in a rescue home. thanks again everyone for making me see how breeding dogs when you are not an experienced breeder is really bad. i can honestly say i never thought twice about it before this and im sure loads of others dont realise either. IP: Logged |
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MaydaysMom Member Posts: 260 |
posted 12-14-2003 10:30 PM
I know that the shelters and pounds in my area are required to spay and neuter before the animal enters their new home or past. If the animal is not altered and the owner refuses I know that they charge a pretty hefty fee yearly to keep an intact male or female in the city limits. IP: Logged |
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the_maine_pitbull Member Posts: 320 |
posted 12-15-2003 02:07 AM
okay, here are some thigns that really bother me.. it is a win-lose situation. Back yard breeders have these dogs to make money from them having pups.. I don't feel they should be getting the money for any of these dogs, however, I also feel that it is wrong if you know you are a good home to not take these pups. This butt hole selling them doesn't care where these puppies go, of course they will say "Screw it, give it to anyone" so they end up in another BYB's hands and it jsut keeps going and going. If they do not get rid of the pups, they barely ever end up in shelters. They are trying to make money, why would they spend money to put that many dogs into a shelter? they would just abandon them or kill them, have a new litter in hopes that these puppies go. Besides, it is not like everyone is going to say "It is wrong to buy these pups" some of them will be sold no matter what and that is enough to get this guy/woman to keep on breeding. They will just think the ones who never went were not cute enough or whatever, then they put "Free Puppies" ads everywhere. Dog fighters get them and use them to bait dogs, if no one takes them, like I said they are abandoned or killed. Linzy, find out where he got the dog. Don't say anythign about not thinking they could breed, just include it into conversation. Say wow she is so pretty and such a great mother, where did you get her? They say rescue shelter, you say oh really, which one, I would never have thought they had such gorgeous dogs. Then they will most probably spill the beans. Or at least that is how I have done it in the past. I have gotten dogs. BYB's theory is "Everythign is negotiable!" Make up a sad sappy story of why you cannot afford to pay the full price- they will do anythign just to get rid of that puppy and all. Meet the puppies and mother, fall in love with one, call a couple days later to see how the puppy is doing say how excited you are to get it- then a couple days later, call back. Sound upset, say how something has happened, they usually go for the therapy dog thing. Say one of your friends got into an accident and died, say you are really depressed you suffer from depression and how you always had a dog for therapy to help you with depression, you really need a dog but cannot afford it all right now with the holidays and ask if there is any way they will come down on the price. Anyhow, the point of doing this is it proves how greedy these people are. Also, you get your dog cheaper. But like I said, these dogs will go one way or another, just a matter of whether you want to be one of these people to help one of those pups or let them go to some crappy home. The decision is for you now.. that dog may have problems but you know they wouldn't get help from a vet in homes these people would maybe sell to. I am not saying I encourage back yard breeding, I am saying these dogs do need homes just as any other. What makes them any different. And once you get that puppy or even if you don't. You should have already done this, GET ON THE PHONE WITH ANIMAL CONTROL- tell them this guy has a dog he claims is from a rescue shelter and is breeding it and selling the pups as purebreed dogs w/o papers. Give his/her name, number, address whatever you have. All this female he has will be is a breeding machine. All shelters, rescues, adoption agencies either already have spayed or neutered the dog(s) or have a contract that you must follow or will be fined and have a lot to deal with. The dog has to be taken care of within four months of the adoption date, that is law everywhere in the US. good luck let us know what you decide. angie IP: Logged |
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Freedom Member Posts: 62 |
posted 12-15-2003 05:44 AM
"freedom im sorry i took what u said the wrong way i can now see what you were trying to say. this is my first time getting a dog so as you can see just by me being on this sight i am trying to learn as much as i can." It's ok, I'm glad now you understand and can see where I'm coming from. If you really want to make sure a puppy gets a loving home then why don't you check out your local shelter or local APBT rescue, I'm sure one will grab onto your heart. As for mainepitbull here is the deal on BYBs. BYB is a supply and demand business, people demand the puppies and the BYBs supply them. The ONLY way to stop BYB is to simply stop buying from them. Once they have a litter of puppies and find it impossible to sell them then they start to think they are in the wrong business. Most BYBs only breed for money and once you don't make money then there is no point in doing it anymore. But when people keep buying these puppies thinking they are saving them, they are just encouraging the BYBs to keep breeding because people are buying their puppies. Also, there would be no point in calling AC. As long as the dog has adequate shelter, food, water, and is healthy looking they won't do anything. There isn't a law that says your dog has to have papers to be bred, even though there should be. IP: Logged |
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Freedom Member Posts: 62 |
posted 12-15-2003 05:46 AM
"I know that the shelters and pounds in my area are required to spay and neuter before the animal enters their new home or past." At our humane society, the animals are fixed right away, as soon as the animal comes in and it is healthy enough to have surgery that is the first thing done. I don't deal with our local animal shelter only because they have gone corrupt, so I don't know how they do things. IP: Logged |
Jas Moderator Posts: 536 |
posted 12-15-2003 09:33 AM
Linzy, I too echo the words of True_Pit. I know you will be worried about what happens to these puppies but please look at it this way - if everyone buys from this unethical "breeder" it only allows him/her to continue breeding more dogs in this manner knowing they are easily sold (supply & demand). While it sounds like you would be saving this dog, it only opens up the way for this breeder to breed more and more dogs. If we want to stop Backyard breeding and unethical breeding we must stop supporting it and continue to educate people about what to look for in a good breeder or purchase a dog through rescue or a shelter. Linzy your concerns and intuition that this breeder is unscrupulous are right on, trust your instinct!! I'd steer clear of this person! I think there are some threads in this forum if you do a search for "responsible breeders" or pit bull rescue. Also look under www.petfinder.com if papers and pedigree is not that important to you. good luck! IP: Logged |
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linzy Member Posts: 11 |
posted 12-15-2003 11:39 AM
i want to thank every one who has tried to answer my question. i know some of you will not be happy with my decision but i am going to go ahead with the puppy. i understand what you are saying about backyard breeders but i think the breeder i am buying from is just ignorant on breeding i dont think he is a nasty person out for what he can get although i agree money is probably playing a big part. when i went to look at the pups he asked me loads of questions about where i live did i have a garden and what hours i worked and things. you could tell he genuinly cares for where they are going. also what themainepitball said really made me think i couldnt live withmyself not knowing if the pup is in the right hands. well thanks again every one. i will let u all know how things are going when i get her. linzy IP: Logged |
Its so sad the level some people stoop to.All times are ET (US) | next newest topic | next oldest topic |
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