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 Why????? (Page 1)
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| Author | Topic: Why????? |
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Casey Member  Posts: 35 |
posted 11-08-2003 11:59 AM
 
Why would someone want to fight a pitt? THey are so loving. ------------------ IP: Logged |
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texmex83 Member Posts: 42 |
posted 11-08-2003 01:20 PM
because they are mean and ignorant, those are the ppl who give pitty's bad names and for the press, they love making pit bulls look bad. IP: Logged |
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neek Member Posts: 291 |
posted 11-08-2003 03:58 PM
Because they are good at fighting and people stand to win alot of money from doing it I think if it is done properly, the dogs thrive on fighting, as long as the handlers know when enough is enough and have the dogs seperated. I am not condoning dog fighting but it is in their nature to do it, but over here in Austalia the GOOD pitbull owners take their pitts wild pig hunting for exercise and to let them do what they were bred for, to pull down and hold game food. They love it but they can also get injured. It's not sad really as pitbulls love to fight but I think they should be used for sport rather than fighting one another. IP: Logged |
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Casey Member Posts: 35 |
posted 11-08-2003 08:19 PM
Fighting is not in the breed. People have to teach them to fight aggressively. But ya any dog knows how to fight but you have to teach them to bring a live thing down! ------------------ IP: Logged |
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goob Member Posts: 552 |
posted 11-08-2003 10:06 PM
Some people feel that the only way to keep the APBT true to its original form is by gametesting the dogs and using that as a qualifier to breeding. They feel that only a game APBT is truly an APBT, and the only way to test for the type of gameness they look for is by matching the dogs. They feel that they are doing something extremely important by keeping the breed's temperament true to type. These people usually (though not always) put a lot of time and money into conditioning and caring for the dogs, and carefully plan for their dogs' matches (though that still doesn't necessarily make what they do right). Other people fight their dogs only to boost their own egos and make themselves feel better, to have their dogs gain a rep as the biggest badass on the block, whatever. These people are the ones who will starve/abuse a dog, let it scrap with another on the street corner, then dump it afterwards if they're disappointed in its performance. Neek is right that they are good at fighting, the APBT has been bred for centuries to fight other animals, and they are GOOD at it. Many actually enjoy fighting, and are eager to do it again and again if given the opportunity. Again, that doesn't mean that they should be allowed to do so, but it's not a secret that fighting is something most APBTs will do on their own will.
quote: Fighting IS in the breed. Just as retrieving is in labs.... herding is in herders... tracking is in scenthounds... chasing down prey is in sighthounds... Pointing is in pointers. You do not have to "teach" them a thing, it's instinct. If they have it in them, it will eventually show itself, if not, it won't.
quote: Dogs are PREDATORS. They know exactly how to take down a live thing, and most will do so numerous times if allowed to. If anything, you have to teach them NOT to bring down a live thing, as canine instinct tells them to kill any prey item they may come across. Even then, you're only making them control themselves, and their natural urge to hunt. IP: Logged |
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MaydaysMom Member Posts: 260 |
posted 11-08-2003 11:55 PM
Exactly Goob, my english setter is not taken to hunt so instead he just hunts the birds himself, he flushes them out and then takes care of not having a gun or hunter by grabbing them out of the air himself. Then he retrieves them over to me! I have never ever taught him this. He started out as a hunting dog but was gun shy and the hunter deposited him at the pound the same day. Every dog has its purpose. Every dog was bred to have a job. However, this dosent make fighting right. IP: Logged |
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neek Member Posts: 291 |
posted 11-09-2003 12:27 AM
In reply to Casey's post(-: All I'm saying is that directing a pittbull's energy into something rather than fighting another dog/pitbull is a lot more humane. Fighting IS their instinct and as wild pigs are considered a pest in this country I think it is a good alternative for the dog to do something CONstructive rather than DEStructive. IP: Logged |
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cali Member Posts: 20 |
posted 11-09-2003 05:19 AM
I agree with neek, not to mention pitts do NOT like fighting I have seen it with my own eyes, when pitts are being rescued from people who fight them, they are in horrable condition and they are so afraid that they will be taken to another fight. plus I know what they do to train this, and the people sure as h*ll dont take good care of the dogs, they abuse the dogs to make them aggressive, they will hang it up by the neck and toss them down the stairs, train them from young using smaller animals to make the dogs kill. I have noticed that everytime fighting pitts are rescued there is a small animal there waiting or its turn to be killed, these have been roosters, chickens, kitten, tiny dogs, etc.. anyway my point is that there is no such thing as a responsable pitt owner that will fight there dog. IP: Logged |
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Casey Member Posts: 35 |
posted 11-09-2003 12:03 PM
All im saying is that they stil have to do thing to the pitts to make them fight. Ya any dog can fight but to bring out that side to make them kill another pitt they have to train them! I have a pitt and she did beat up on my other dog once but that was because he started it and he is a aussie. ------------------ IP: Logged |
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neek Member Posts: 291 |
posted 11-09-2003 01:42 PM
You can't MAKE a pitbull fight! If he is threatened he will 99% of the time fight back and usually win. It is not good for the other dog to get mauled because once a fight starts it rarely breaks on its own. It is not good ownership to get the dog in a position like that to start with. I am guilty of that myself and it's not nice for dog fights of any breed, but with a pitbull they can do alarming damage in a short space of time to the other dog!  You don't have to TRAIN a pitbull to kill another pitbull/dog, if the other dog is fighting back the pitt will not stop until he has to. e.g fight is broken up, dog lays injured or submissive or god forbid dead!! IP: Logged |
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GoodboysBaddogs Member Posts: 409 |
posted 11-09-2003 01:57 PM
... anyway my point is that there is no such thing as a responsable pitt owner that will fight there dog...
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ignergehl Member Posts: 174 |
posted 11-09-2003 02:21 PM
Im with those who say that pits ENJOY fighting.Having been present a many fights myself,Ive witnessed these dog shrieking in excitement from their kennels before a fight and Ive seen these dogs scream in frustration when their handlers break them off of each other,even the losers,and try to get back to that other dog,even if mortally wounded.The fact that some dogs are in "terrible condition"is the owners fault.Most of the dogmen i know wash and treat their dogs on the spot,even run i.v. fluids if necessary.Ir treated properly,virtually all the scars heal entirelly.Look at the pictures in the pit bull books of the fighting champions,nearly all of them look clean and healthy,dont they?(the ones you see scarred up are from photos taken right after a fight.I have another question;why is it okay to use a dog for hunting(they are frequently culled,accidentally shot,impaled on limbs and fences,and killed by the animals they are hunting)for herding(they are often kicked and gored,and live short lives)and for police work(they are shot,stabbed, and run over)?Why are these activities applauded,while fighting is reviled?Also,humans willingly fight proffesionally,to the ultimate detriment of their health,is a dog such a dumb,human reliant creature that it cannot have such a career itself?The real evil is not the relatively few pitbulls out their being put to work doing what they are bred to do,the evil is the 7-8 million dogs put to death every year because they were unwanted,either because of behavioral problems brought about by having no function to perform,or because their owners bought a conversation piece that turned out to have needs they couldnt meet. IP: Logged |
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neek Member Posts: 291 |
posted 11-09-2003 03:01 PM
What you mentioned about pitts that get hurt in hunting rarely happens. An expert pig hunter would never aim his rifle let alone shoot it near his dog! A gun is used lastly after the dog has pulled the pig down and held it there until the owner comes and ties the pig's legs then most of the danger is taken care of before the pig is even shot!! As for getting impaled on a fence, most people take the dogs far into the bush away from fencing and properties. Accidents do happen with the tusks as not every dog can predict whats going to happen when the pig is grabbed and brought down. Some get gashed, but again the responsible owner knows what to do if the dog does get hurt, and he will react quickly by shooting in the head at close range so the dog is not in danger. Then he has the necessary first aid experience until the dog is taken to the vet. There is a certain element of danger in all activities that pitbulls are used for, but what people have to remember is that they were bred in the first place for attack, whether in bulls, pigs or something else. They thrive on it! I think it is alot better for the dogs to have a purpose rather than being just backyard buddies that get a daily exercise run, but again, fighting them against each other should NOT be condoned!! IP: Logged |
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Casey Member Posts: 35 |
posted 11-09-2003 04:59 PM
Dogs ARE trained to fight!!!!!!! They are trained to take there anger out!!!! You can't just say" Go kill" to any other pitt!!!! They are trained!!!!! ------------------ IP: Logged |
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Ahkahna Member Posts: 93 |
posted 11-09-2003 05:02 PM
Casey, please do some research on pitbulls before you come onto a pitbull forum. You look really uneducated. No offense. IP: Logged |
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True_Pits Member Posts: 373 |
posted 11-09-2003 05:02 PM
CALI- please stop spreading lies about this breed. Many NOT all enjoy fighting very much. Have you ever been to a Pit Bull Kennel or talked to a real breeder? Have you ever seen pups seperated at 2 or 3 months old so they don't injure/kill eachother? I have seen pups killed at those young ages because they are figting. I think thats irresponsible yes because you should seperate them before that happens, but sometimes you don't always know. I usually serate mine at 3 months, but I had one mishap this summer that turned very bad. Two of my pups started fighting and I couldn't break them up there isn't much you can do to make them stop. When we finally got them apart they were screaming and pulling trying to get back at one another. They have never been trained to fight, so why are they like this? Do YOU have the answer? They have to be kept seperate from other dogs now and out of eachothers sites. Now that they had their first fight they always want to fight, but more so when they see eachother they go nuts because their not stupid they remember fighting eachother. Thats how come one excaped his pen and hit the other who was across the yard, he passed all the females and 1 adult male to hit that other pup and we had a full blown fight with to puppies fighting like adults. They sustained some bad injuries but wanted to fight so bad when seperated, God only knows what would have happened had I not discovered them fighting one would probably be dead now. Maybe 2 if the killer went to mess with one of the other dogs. I have seen this with MY OWN EYES. If they ddin't like fighting you wouldn't have yard accidents, I now this guy who breeds pull dogs and is against fighting period but one of his bitches slipped her collar and killed another. Man that is so strange I wonder why that happened being you have to train them to fight? This breed is already misunderstood enough without people making up their own facts on the breed. Its important whether you agree or disagree with fighting to educate people. Even if you don't agree doesn't mean you shouldn't inform people that Pit Bulls have a natural tendency to be dog aggressive. Otherwise what will happen if their dog ever turns on, they will panic!! They won't know what to do, maybe loose the life of a pet or worse cause the death of a neighbors dog and make more bad press for the breed. If you knew any real breeders you would see dogs who are VERY happy about fighting. They get REALLY excited about going to a fight. Sometimes when they get to the pit they whine already before the other dog is even in view because they know its almost time. The same way some dogs get excited about pulling because they like it. "they abuse the dogs to make them aggressive" Aggressive dogs don't win fights, game dogs do. Lots of dog act aggressive bark and growl those are the types that usuaully would quit in a fight. "they will hang it up by the neck and toss them down the stairs, train them from young using smaller animals to make the dogs kill. I have noticed that everytime fighting pitts are rescued there is a small animal there waiting or its turn to be killed, these have been roosters, chickens, kitten, tiny dogs, etc.. " Throwing a dog down the stairs won't make it have better fighting ability...lol that is ridiculous. Using smaller animals would be a waste of time, if they killed a cat or chicken it wouldn't make them a better fighting and these people know this so they don't waste their time. And tiny dogs, that is even more laughable, that would make the dog a worse fighter. They would pick up bad habits like yelping, growling, trying to flee and other things cur breeds do. WHY in this world do you think a dogman is going to make thier APBT fight another breed of dog to train them???? That doesn't add up, if they trained them to fight another breed what do you thinks going to happen when they meet another Pit Bull, that Pit Bull isn't going to let itself be killed or now fight back. That dog would be unprepared for a real fight. They take very good care of their dogs. The kind who don't would treat their dogs cruely regardless of if they fought them or not. They are just evil people. Also that is all they know with people you and the humane society making statements about how dog fighters train their animals using bait and abuse. What do you think the wanna be future dog fighter is going to do? Exactly what they hear the Humane Society saying they are suppose to be doing. texmex83 said "because they are mean and ignorant, those are the ppl who give pitty's bad names and for the press, they love making pit bulls look bad." Dogmen have little to do with bad press. Its ignorant owners who let their pet bulls run free, thugs and gang bangers who fight their dogs without any knowledge and just irresponsible none caring [eople in general. I have seen dogs bred for well I guess show and pull dogs although they were rarely shown and some just bred for money in horrible conditions. Saying that someone who fights their dogs keeps them in poor condition is the same generalization as saying breeders of pull dogs keep their dogs in poor condition just based off a few kennels/dogs I see. Most dogmen aren't in the public light and don't get busted because they take care of their dogs. Fat Bill did get "busted" but they had no real proof and gave ALL his dogs back because they were in excellent condition. I'm sure the only reason he was under investigation is because he puts himself in the public light. uneducated and irresponsible owners give them a bad name. Just likes they did to Rotts, Dobies, GSDs, now maybe even the Presa Canario, good thing it wasn't too Pits who killed that women the press probably would have made up some story on how they were fighting dogs. IP: Logged |
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True_Pits Member Posts: 373 |
posted 11-09-2003 05:09 PM
Ahkahna- I couldn't agree with you more. Too bad we can't force people to learn. If dogmen are so ignorant then maybe it wouldn't be a good idea to exterminate the Pit Bull breed for good as they are the product of mean/ignorant peoples breeding generations of dogs to fight. IP: Logged |
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goob Member Posts: 552 |
posted 11-09-2003 05:29 PM
quote: How many pit bull fights have YOU seen? In the few that I've seen (all accidental fights that were broken up as quickly as possible), the APBT was MORE than happy at the hcance to scrap, and was looking for more when they were finally pulled away from the other dog. None of these dogs had had ANY "training" to fight. They, like many APBTs "knew" because the instinct to fight has been bred into them for so long that it is a natural behavior for the APBT... much like playing tug, chewing things up, and scarfing up anything edible.
quote: How do you know this? Did they tell you that?
quote: Since these dogs are a business for many people, a way of life, WHY would they make the dogs ill and weak, unable to perform their function, by not taking good care of them.
quote: Why would they want a dog to be "aggressive" when they have to handle it everday for intense exercise, be IN the fighting pit with them, and tend to an injured dog afterwards THEMSELVES? Rather, most fighting dogs are extremely friendly to people.
quote: WHY would you try to break the neck of a dog you wanted to fight? Wouldn't that be extremely counterproductive, since a dog that had just been tossed down the stairs and whiplashed wouldn't exactly be in shape to fight another dog, and would LOSE, losing money for the owner.
quote: Again, if your dog was going to be going up against another pit bull, one of the BEST fighting dogs in the world, WHY would you have it "practice" on helpless puppies, kitties, and chickens? What exactly would that accomplish, and HOW would it help to prepare your dog to go up against another APBT? It would be completely useless. Many dogs can kill puppies, kittens, chickens, but wouldn't stand a chance against ANY pit bull, nevermind an experienced fighting pit bull. This stuff you're reciting here isn't FACT, it's lies spewed by humane groups (the VERY SAME groups who want to see the APBT and similar breeds extinguished from the face of the earth) and the media.
quote: No. They don't. Pits fight because they ENJOY it, and because instinct tells them to. You don't have to train a greyhound to run down rabbits, why would you have to train a pit bull to fight? IP: Logged |
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neek Member Posts: 291 |
posted 11-09-2003 06:27 PM
Great posting Goob!!!!!!!! IP: Logged |
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neek Member Posts: 291 |
posted 11-09-2003 06:39 PM
Casey, there is no need to get angry and you are entitled to believe what you like!!! You say that you can't just say "GO KILL" to a pitbull? You don't even have to SAY that!!! If you are walking your pitbull down the road for instance and another dog comes strolling along unleashed, they sniff, take a disliking to one another and next thing you know, BANG your dog is FIGHTING!!!! I hope something like that doesn't happen to you but you NEED to be more educated. IP: Logged |
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GoodboysBaddogs Member Posts: 409 |
posted 11-09-2003 07:03 PM
OK, it seems as though everyone speaking out for Pits have a great deal of experiance in their characteristics & "natural" behavior... I was hoping that i could get some respones to a question of concern: If i were to get a Pitbull puppy @ 8 weeks young, & a Dogue de Bordeaux (French Mastiff) @ the same age, & raise them VERY closly to us-humans, other dogs & animals (basically being v e r y well socialized, as its liked to be called), would it be possible for them to live harmoniously? I mean they would be seriously spoiled w/ all the goodness of L O V E. They would pretty much be w/ each other & us-humans A L L the time. Within the age of let me say 2 years, or less, will i be able to recognise their disagreements w/ each other & be able to "correct" their "natural" behaviors of dominancy, etc, to make it possible?? I know it's possible, come-on, tell me it is... There has to be a way(s). Everything i'm hearing about a Pitbulls "natural" characteristic is driving me nutts, i know it's possible to break this instilled behaviour. It just makes me want to experiance the whole trip even m o r e! ! ! Any suggestions would be GREATLY helpfull & of-coarse appreciated, [This message has been edited by GoodboysBaddogs (edited 11-09-2003).] IP: Logged |
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ignergehl Member Posts: 174 |
posted 11-09-2003 07:50 PM
Hey neek,what is your point in saying dogs dont get hurt hunting?I know personally of an english setter that was impaled through the chest by a limb!(survived)I work in a vets office,and I see it all!we had some moron come in with a beagle that had got in the way when he tried to shoot a rabbit and it got its leg blown off!There was the brittany that got tangled in barbed wire and was cut up pretty bad!Not every hunter is an expert,and even if they were these things happen.I could go on and on about the hunting accidents that come in to our office,and if that many are happening here imagine how many happen all over the country?Are you making your argument just for the sake of arguing because you obviously dont know any facts.You would have to be along with every hunter on every hunt to honestly say that hunters always take their dogs away from fenced areas,I know hunters doing it in fields right on the edge of town!Also,again I ask,why are these activities sanctioned and dogfighting loathed?Also what about the hunted animals themselves?Do they have any less rights than a dog? IP: Logged |
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neek Member Posts: 291 |
posted 11-09-2003 09:01 PM
I NEVER said that pitbulls don't get hurt on the hunt, if you read it properly you would know that!!! Like I said PIGS ARE CONSIDERED PESTS!! So whats wrong with eradicating them and rabbits and anything that breeds like wild fire. Why do you think there are animals like wolves and bears and foxes HUH? To get rid of the overbred varmin!! Most pitbull owners MAKE SURE their dogs are not in the firing line when they are taken to hunt. Like you said that MORON who took that beagle hunting should have seen that coming. For somebody who works in a vet hospital, YOU are misinformed!! And anyone who takes their dog hunting near properties knows better as Pitbulls are not looked upon kindly, so most people I know, do the smart thing and NOT hunt where people might start trouble with their dogs!! A bit of common sense! It is done for sport! Just like duck shooting, or rabbit trapping and you are just making a big deal out of it by starting s**t that YOU know nothing about!! IP: Logged |
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goob Member Posts: 552 |
posted 11-09-2003 09:13 PM
quote: Anything's possible, but I certainly wouldn't count on it. Of course, there are more factors that would need to be considered... would this be a pair like your current, same sex and unaltered? If so, chances get much smaller. What sort of lines would you be looking at from each breed? Show? Working? Fighting? Whatever?
quote: All of this won't mean a THING if something in their genetics starts "whispering" to them that they are a PIT BULL, and they decide to act like one. You can correct all you want, but genetics will win out, and you'll be left with a dog that is STILL dog aggressive, because that is his/her nature. And since dog aggression usually starts to manifest between the ages of 1 and 3 yrs, but can start appear at any point in a dog's life, there's no set age at which you will know whether or not they will become dog aggressive... usually with an older dog (5+), it's a safer bet, but it's a complete gamble with an 8 week old pup.
quote: Get opposite sexed dogs, and get them fixed. Seperate them when you aren't home or there to supervise, so that they can't get into a fight and kill each other by the time you get home. Try to prevent the first fight, as it's almost always a precursor to more, and more serious fights. Be prepared every morning when you wake up for the possibility that by the time you go to bed that night, your dogs will hate each other with a passion, and that it may be that way for all the rest of their lives.
quote: The AB may have "dabbled" in fighting at one point or other, but has NEVER been especially bred for for it for any length of time like the APBT. Some ABs are pretty dog aggressive, but more APBTs are dog agrgessive, and they are often MORE seriously dog aggressive than ABs.
quote: That's not a particularly good way to look at it. It's a fact that APBTs are often dog aggressive, and that if they are genetically predisposed to being dog aggressive, they will most often become dog agrgessive, no matter their surroundings, upbringing, training, corrections. There is no way to "break" the characteristic... it either IS, or isn't... will be, or won't be, no matter what you do. Many people who have thought they could change the characteristic have had a horrible fight in which they nearly lost- or did lose- at least one of their dogs, and many more will lose because they THINK they can "beat" genetics at this game, but are proven wrong. IP: Logged |
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desertAPBT Member Posts: 51 |
posted 11-09-2003 09:44 PM
What you mentioned about pitts that get hurt in hunting rarely happens. An expert pig hunter would never aim his rifle let alone shoot it near his dog! A gun is used lastly after the dog has pulled the pig down and held it there until the owner comes and ties the pig's legs then most of the danger is taken care of before the pig is even shot!! ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ Neek, Many dogs get hurt hunting, To say that they dont is incorrect. The Hog hunters I have spoken with dont even use a gun most the time. They use a knife.
Casey APBTs dont need to be trained to fight period. My dog would fight another dog no problem w did not train her to be like this she just is. its part of being a terrier. For you to think this way is sad becasue people like you that think APBTs need to be trained cause statistics! Plain and simple.
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ignergehl Member Posts: 174 |
posted 11-09-2003 09:46 PM
Whatever neek!Youve missed my point entirely!I wasnt talking about hunting with pits,I was asking why it okay to hunt with dogs(any dogs),a sport in which many animals get hurt,but not okay to FIGHT with dogs,also a sport,also where animals get hurt.Rabbits are not a feral animal,incidentally,whereas humans and their dogs and their cattle ARE breeding like wildfire,and destroying the earth.I suppose we should be eradicated,as well?We have killed off most of the bears and wolves and foxes!Why are you so hostile?One thing about pitbulls I have discovered,the subject really brings out the crazies!I mean,where did you say that"PIGS ARE PESTS"?Honestly!What you said was,dogs rarely get hurt hunting,if that were true there wouldnt be an endless stream of them through my office! IP: Logged |
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GoodboysBaddogs Member Posts: 409 |
posted 11-09-2003 11:21 PM
So is it impossible to find a Pitbull puppy from lets say a strictly show-line, w/ no hunting, fighting, or anything of that nature that will not be dog-aggressive, even if the situation arrose-(sp?)? Just because i've seen a good amount of grown pitbulls in dog parks playing fine, w/ no tantrums, or dominancy issues w/ any dog. When my AB was a puppy, he would only play w/ Pits, & the Pits he played w/ where from Puppy age to adult. Rough, & a little aggressive, but thats just the way they like to play/socialize. But nothing overly aggressive, to where it became a problem. IP: Logged |
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GoodboysBaddogs Member Posts: 409 |
posted 11-09-2003 11:34 PM
Even till this day my Ab likes to play w/ dogs his own size, and aggressivness. Like Pits, Rotts, Akitas, AB's, Staff's, pretty much everyone. But once in a while he'll come in contact w/ an IGNORANT owners dog, and that ********* dog will have ego problems or something... LOL! And eventually that dog will snap, but my AB NEVER takes it to that level. It seems like he knows that the dog is just lame and ********* for no-appearent reason, seriously. I mean, even after this happens, my dog will go back and insist on trying to play w/ that particular dog, putting his paws all over him w/ a big smile on his face wagging his tail, jumping around & stuff. The other dog of coarse is all stiff, and does'nt even know what to do, but snap again. For the most part, most dogs in dog parks pitbull, rott, akita, chow, GSD, Husky, AB, ridgebacks, whatever, neutured of not, don't have a problem w/ the way my dogs play's w/ them. I believe this is because they were well & properly raised & socialized to be social dogs, dogs that can interact w/ life outside of a pit or sport. [This message has been edited by Jas (edited 11-10-2003).] IP: Logged |
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GoodboysBaddogs Member Posts: 409 |
posted 11-09-2003 11:38 PM
No-OFFENSE TO ANY1.  IP: Logged |
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the_maine_pitbull Member Posts: 320 |
posted 11-10-2003 05:45 AM
Okay, I just have to put my piece of mind in here on this one. Well for one, a hunting dog is a big difference from a fighting dog. A fighting dog has nine out of ten times chance of attacking a human for NO REASON because of this behavior. The major difference is that fighting Pit Bull's isn't putting food on your table. Anyone who allows these hunting "accidents" is a very poor dog owner due to the fact that they are not taking good care of their dogs when in the field. And basically all of the hunting accidents are exactly that, "ACCIDENTS". People fight Pitties knowing that they are going to most probably get hurt, gambling away this dogs life. I live in northern Maine. This place is hunting capitol- the bears are in no way endangered or "killed off" and neither are the fox. The wolves were once considered dangerous, and killed. No one took their dog hunting wolf. Pit's are trained to kill other dogs. Are you going to take that dead dog home and eat it or feed it to your family. Nope, chancees are you will take the money you won and sink it into junk to pump your dog up. Dog fighting is a cowards sport!! It is a lazy man/woman who is too useless to get out there and WORK for a living so he has his dog do it for him. Nothing will change my opinion on this. And when hunting, dogs do not KILL the animal they are hunting, they help find it, and the owner shoots it. Speaking of hunting time to take my PIT BULL bird hunting. And I agree Pit's are TRAINED to fight. It is not just there, because Saige is seven months old, female and another female came here yesterday, a Boxer at that, it tried to fight with Saige and Saige would growl but she didn't want to fight at all. Very mild tempered dog she is.. I am proud of her for not fighting back. Jekkyl on the other hand was tweeking out trying to get at that dog. But he is very territorial,protective of myself and Saige and a bit more of an attitude. Angie IP: Logged |
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cali Member Posts: 20 |
posted 11-10-2003 07:59 AM
why do I bother to come here? its people like you guys that give pitts a bad name, they are NOT aggressive by nature, and its these beliefs that are causing pitts this grief I know many people with pitts and they are some of the most loving and sweet dogs there is. a pitt is known as a mother like breed do you why? because they are sweet gentil, loving creaturs, and its you people that hurt them, allow them to get killed, and train aggressive dogs. if people like you did not exist pitts would not have a bad rep. by the way pitt fighting is an illigal activity and many of you have been to a pitt fight and attmitted and you did not report, fighting is a crime, and you addmitted to watching them and not reporting it. If I can find more info on you people I can easily report you. pS. I am not talking to angie, or the couple others who are against pitt fighting. [This message has been edited by cali (edited 11-10-2003).] IP: Logged |
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benny boy Member Posts: 392 |
posted 11-10-2003 08:28 AM
******EDIT**** Benny, this is a hot topic but your post has been deleted. Please no name calling or profanity. Please posters, not everyone will agree on everything but lets respect the list rules here. If you feel strongly that something is false information state your opinion but do so in a tactful manner or topics will be closed and posted deleted Thanks Moderator [This message has been edited by Jas (edited 11-10-2003).] IP: Logged |
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cali Member Posts: 20 |
posted 11-10-2003 09:07 AM
*****EDIT****** [This message has been edited by Jas (edited 11-10-2003).] IP: Logged |
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benny boy Member Posts: 392 |
posted 11-10-2003 09:52 AM
obviously i am, why don't you share some of your knowledge with me so that i may become enlightened, wait i can watch animal planet too. i just want to get one thing straight so that there isn't any confusion, not all pits are dog aggressive, the ones that are do not have to be 'trained' to fight, it is what you might call instinct. the pits that are not agressive towards other dogs, or do not want to fight, will never be good pit dogs. do you understand this breed at all? why the hell did you come on board and start telling everyone who loves and understands their breed that they were the ones giving the dogs a bad name? i think that you need to maybe read a little more before you declare yourself an authority, and go around pretending like you know alot. are you over 15? have you ever owned an apbt? assuming you know what that stands for. and i think that there are more than 'a few' people on this board that do not support pit fighting. me being one of them, but i can also say that i understand and have some level of appriciation, respect for the sport, it is what created the dogs we know and love today. also i was wondering if you could explain how they train and abuse the beta fish so that it will fight? i'm sure you're an expert on that as well, because we all know that none of gods creatures would naturally have aggressive tendencies, right? [This message has been edited by benny boy (edited 11-10-2003).] IP: Logged |
Jas Moderator Posts: 536 |
posted 11-10-2003 10:03 AM
Once again I will state: ******Please posters, not everyone will agree on everything but lets respect the list rules here. If you feel strongly that something is false information state your opinion but do so in a tactful manner or topics will be closed and posted deleted. Thanks Moderator IP: Logged |
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benny boy Member Posts: 392 |
posted 11-10-2003 11:45 AM
sorry jas, won't happen again. IP: Logged |
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Ahkahna Member Posts: 93 |
posted 11-10-2003 12:43 PM
one more thing, pit is PIT not pitt. If you know the breed, you'd spell it correctly. I'm sorry, it bugs me. IP: Logged |
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neek Member Posts: 291 |
posted 11-10-2003 01:43 PM
Sorry if I sounded defensive, I don't know why you are talking about other hunting dogs?? I wouldn't have a clue about scent hounds or retrievers. Like someone already posted, It is a basically an idiot that takes there dog hunting and allows it to get hurt in the fist place! I know Countries are different to each other but Ign, (I don't know how to spell your name) in Australia, pigs, rabbits and in some places foxes, and even kangaroos, (although I don't know anybody that hunts kangaroos except for aboriginies) ARE considered pests My boyfriends brother makes a living off hunting and killing wild camels in the Northern Territory, it is perfectly legal and whether or not people think it is wrong is irrelevent. Rabbits were that bad over here a year ago that the council got together with wildlife officers and lay poison in certain areas to eradicate them. Wild pigs destroy crops, earth and are ten times worse for the land than 100's of horses stampeding together over a length of time. Dog fighting is completly selfish, cruel and has no point to it at all execept boost idiotic egos. Now I ask you IGN what would you rather, dog fighting? Hunting is not considered cruel in this country and I'm sorry if this offends you but Pitbulls are used to bring down pigs!! Do you think a retriever could do it? Or a Beagle, foxhound or anything like that? There may be accidents in hunting, but at least hunters don't take their dogs to death-matches!! Now isn't that what the majority of pitbull owners are against? So why pick on hunting? IP: Logged |
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benny boy Member Posts: 392 |
posted 11-10-2003 01:54 PM
hey neek, whats up do you have any hunting pics you could send me i'de love to see them. i've been hog hunting a few times (not with dogs though)it was intense enough without dogs. it's something that i'm trying to learn more about. do yall go often? i'de be intrested in seeing your dogs, and country here's my email bstandridge@firstchoicelenders.com IP: Logged |
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neek Member Posts: 291 |
posted 11-10-2003 01:57 PM
Is it ok to eat meat in your state? I mean do you eat beef, chicken, lamb, pork or any other form of meat. These animals are bred to be slaughtered. Do you think that is cruel? The rabbits I am talking about are not cute little kids pets. They do serious damage to the bush and surrounding areas. I guess we will have to agree to disagree ok. IP: Logged |
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neek Member Posts: 291 |
posted 11-10-2003 02:06 PM
No sorry BennyBoy I don't personally hunt, but I know a few people who do. I will try to organise some pictures of their dogs in action. I would love to go hunting but I have kids so I don't have the time. I am not sure how to get the pictures sent to you. IP: Logged |
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ignergehl Member Posts: 174 |
posted 11-10-2003 04:23 PM
Once again you guys are missing my point!Now,supposing that pitbulls are just another breed of dog,Why is it alright for SOME dogs to hunt,herd and do police work,activities where,as in fighting,they are injured and killed,but fighting is illegal? Dogfighting is violent?yes,and so is attacking,pinning and shooting a hog!Ive seen video of it and it was very bloody!Most hog hunters arent out there to 'eradicate the feral swine menace',they are sport hunting!No dog says to its owner"I want to herd,I want to get kicked by cattle",No dog applies for the job of police officer!Just as no dog asks to be a fighter!why are some alright and others not?Most dogfighters dont make a living out of it by-the-way,it is a sport,like hunting.Im telling you,hunting at night,or with several dogs,the opportunity to accidentally shoot your dog or another hunter is always there!Incidentally,in most of the southern united states,there are NO wolves,and few bears.We do have hogs and rabbits,but really,I havent heard a thing about them destroying the landscape here!Please, cant anybody reply that they see my point about fighting versus any other dangerous activity using dogs?I am NOT saying dogfighting is right,per-se(I havent been involved in 15 years)I just cant see why one is wrong and the others are right! IP: Logged |
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True_Pits Member Posts: 373 |
posted 11-10-2003 04:53 PM
To DesertAPBT>>> "Two of my pups started fighting and I couldn't break them up there isn't much you can do to make them stop. When we finally got them apart they were screaming and pulling trying to get back at one another. So because you are imcompitant your dogs suffered. Oh but I bet you are so cool now becuase your dogs fight and you cant get them apart BULLSHIT! If you cant seperate pups you sure dont need adults!" I don't know what kind of person you are and I'm sorry if you have a problem with my opinion. I am in NO WAY incompitant of the APBT if thats what you think then so be it because I admit I don't know everything but do know what I know and have learned A LOT over the years(in this since I was knee high)and since I've always loved the dogs I've been dedicated and only learn more as I go along. And they hardly suffered, I think they enjoyed it thouroghly, maybe you disagree but they really did like fighting. They seemed to be unaware of their injuries and would have gladly continued. Had I been and imcompitant/cruel owner and let them go at it thinking it would be cool. I've never had a complaint about my dogs or the way I keep my dogs, and nobody has ever had a problem with them. I'm an honest person and never BS anyone about my dogs. Some people will, especially puppy peddlers which I am not. This pup hadn't shown any aggression and was just as ordinary as the rest of the pups they wre getting along great. Despite that I was still planning on seperating them the following week as they would be close to 3 months. Your statement "If you cant seperate pups you sure dont need adults!" If really irrelevent their is an easy, sure fire to seperate pups its called a BREAKING STICK! I'm going to ask you some serious questions and please take the time to answer. How do you know when a young(around 8-12) pup is going to start? I can't predict it. If you want incompitant look at some of the other posters on this thread. They seem to know little to none about the breed. Its not just that they are ignorant they are seemly incompitant and incapable of understanding and learning. Maybe they are just brainwashed I don't know. And by the way no it doens't make me "cool" I really have no need to feel cool or anything like that. I don't have my dogs to be cool like some breeders I have seen breeding huge monster to feel like they are big and bad and brag about their going head/chest ect. I have no idea why you even said that. Because its what these dogs do and most people don't consider it cool just ordinary. Something you have to deal with part of the dog. Like when a border collie herds sheep. Not cool just normal for the breed. I was posting it to prove a point not to brag that would be ridiculous if thats what you assumed then Im just letting you know. ok? I'm not trying to start an arguement. IP: Logged |
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neek Member Posts: 291 |
posted 11-10-2003 04:53 PM
Ok why were dogs bred in the first place? Some were bred to herd, some to hunt, some to kill vermin, and some to be companion animals. A dog dosen't ask to be a herder, tracker, or anything else because it is their instinct to just DO IT! Why are you under the impression that dogs don't like what they do? I suppose you are going to say that a guide dog doesn't like what it does because it never asked to lead the blind! Dog fighting is WRONG, plain and simple, people have just happened upon a breed of dog that LOVES to fight and they use the breed for inhumane reasons, not sport. They DO fight dogs for the money, why else would they bother? Surely not for the thrill alone. My point before about the meat was that you seem to think killing animals for sport is cruel but what about the beef cattle that are bred to be slaughtered? Is that also cruel? You live in texas, isn't that prime beef country? If I am missing your point again then I'm sorry as I don't know what you are on about. IP: Logged |
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True_Pits Member Posts: 373 |
posted 11-10-2003 04:59 PM
OPPS it suppose to be "Your statement "If you cant seperate pups you sure dont need adults!" Is really irrelevent their is an easy, sure fire way to seperate ADULTS it called a BREAKING STICK! Sorry for the mistake I also realize that Cali and Casey both never answered the quesiton of WHY these 2 pups started fighting, enjoyed it, and one tried it again. Despite not being trained to fight. Can either of you two answer that question since you believe training must be given? People who can't explain their claim are clearly don't know what they are talking about and only ahve a hallow claim with no filling. IP: Logged |
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Casey Member Posts: 35 |
posted 11-10-2003 05:04 PM
Akahana(or whatever it is) I do happen to no A LOT about Pitts. I am an animal activist so I HAVE to know what is going on!!! Sorry to seem mean to everyone but I just don't get it. But did you ever think that the Pitts don't like to fight but do because they think they have to? Thats all im trying to get around. Sorry Jas that it turned into this big thing! Sorry everyone! ------------------ IP: Logged |
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neek Member Posts: 291 |
posted 11-10-2003 05:12 PM
As for police dogs and the like getting injured in their line of work, they are bred for policing. They are easy to train and they love what they do. If they get killed whilst working, then it is unfortunate but it happens. Dogs have been bred by man for centuries to do what man wants of them. It may seem slack to people but it's true, not all dogs were meant to sit around and do nothing. It's the same with horses being tamed for man to ride, use for ploughing and some people think it's mean to race thoroughbreds because they are forced to run hard and fast, but they are bred to do just that, aren't they? I hope I covered everything you wanted to know IGN. IP: Logged |
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True_Pits Member Posts: 373 |
posted 11-10-2003 05:18 PM
Maine_Pit said "A fighting dog has nine out of ten times chance of attacking a human for NO REASON because of this behavior. " I'd really like to no where you got this "fact" did you just pull it out of your little magic hat? Shouldn't go around making up statistics. Most of the dogs I have been around have been fighting dogs. I've been around them since I was a little kid, they were always fine with me and loved all kids and of course adults. I have never, ever had one bite me, none of the breeders i'v known were ever bitten and non of their dogs ever bit anyone that I knew of. Only ONE out of the 1000s bit, he bit the owner on the hand, the owner culled him. The truth is a fighting dog who is people aggressive it culled, a dogman can't deal with a man biter. Due to the fact that a dog is washed by the opposing handler and both hanglers and referee are in the pit with the dogs. Also they know what these dogs are capable of why would they put themselves or their families in danger? Why would a fighting dog have a higher chance of biting a person? I think many forget that not too long ago these dogs were mostly only bred/used/kept for fighting and their was no huge of issue of pits attacking and they were known as the nanny dog because they were so good with the family. The only pit that has attempted to attack me was a backyard bred APBT/Staff and the owners know it had a bad temper, I'm not the only person it attempted to bite. Its always after something and for this reason they think it would make a good pit dog...guess its a common misconception? She isn't even dog-aggresive...lol Just a terribly human-aggressive dog. IP: Logged |
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ignergehl Member Posts: 174 |
posted 11-10-2003 06:24 PM
Pitbulls were bred for centuries to fight,same as the hunting,herding,policing dogs.I NEVER said all these dogs dont like to do there jobs,just that they dont ASK to!!Why do you contantly misquote me??!!Just because I didnt mention the hideous factory-meat industry doesnt mean Im FOR it.now that you mention it,why is the miserable life of the meat and dairy cow,which is certain to end in death,okay,and not dogfighting?because the majority rules and the majority say that beef is yummy and hunting is fun!This same majority says dogfighting is vile and so it is illegal.The suffering of dogs used for fighting cannot compare to the horror of branding,being fed grains that cause terrible stomach pain,and the eventual terror while being slaughtered that millions of cattle face every year. IP: Logged |
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goob Member Posts: 552 |
posted 11-10-2003 07:43 PM
quote: HA! That explains your blatant misunderstanding of the breed... you DO realize that most of those so called "animal activists" support the extermination of the pit bull, right? They want to see ALL pit bulls wiped off the face of the Earth. "Animal activists" are a HUGE part of the reason the pit bull is in so much trouble today, because like you, most of them cannot believe that a dog could actually LIKE to fight, and they are shocked and horrified when/if they find out the truth firsthand. IP: Logged |
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