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| Author | Topic: Pitbull colors |
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luvindogsmom New Member  Posts: 7 |
posted 10-01-2003 10:54 AM
 
Hi, I'm in the process of getting a pit puppy. I got my first pitbull 15 years ago and i have never lost interest in the breed. She's gone now and i feel it's time to get another one. Ok i'm blabbing now...lol anyways the parents of the pit pup i'm getting is mother is golden buckskin and the father is known as silver. My question is, i have never heard of Silver before, can someone explain to me what color is silver, (i have'nt seen the parents yet, Hubby seen the mom in a picture and asked me yesterday if i am ready to get another pit)anyways is silver blue? Hubby was told Silver is like brown, so i'm confused, so if anyone knows or has pictures of a silver pit, can you please let me know as i'm curious of what it looks like. Thanks IP: Logged |
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Pit_Bull_Girly New Member Posts: 8 |
posted 10-01-2003 02:04 PM
Here's my blue boy aka silver. Actually, I can't figure out how to share the pic  PBG IP: Logged |
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luvindogsmom New Member Posts: 7 |
posted 10-01-2003 02:43 PM
Thanks anyways....you can send me the pic at parrotlover_99@yahoo.com if you want. i kinda thought Silver had to be in the blue family....lol IP: Logged |
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True_Pits Member  Posts: 373 |
posted 10-02-2003 04:32 PM
I saw a website with silver dogs before. I'll have to try and find it. They said its taken so much time and everything to create the "new" silver color and how special and rare it was. Think it was just a ploy to sell expensive, rare pups. It is DIFFERENT than BLUE. It does look brownish with a silver overcast, but its a little different than a blue fawn. The coat looks silky. Ok i found the link mobsterpits.com. You can see what silver looks like there. They sell their pups for $2500 & UP!! Which I would pay for a good dog, but I'm under the just breed for color. If you read the questions & answer section there excuse for no longer showing their dogs politics, which is something you have to deal with. I don't like it but I live with, you can't win all the time. Besides that their dogs are out of standard if they wre trying to show them in ADBA. Of course the "coyote" pit bull as they call them are going to place b/c they are in the ADBA standard. Anyway check out the picture by clicking on the RARE Link. IP: Logged |
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goob Member Posts: 552 |
posted 10-02-2003 07:50 PM
The "silver" dogs one that site are created by breeding light pigmented blues to other light pigmented blues for several generations. The color gets so washed out that it takes on a "silvery" appearance. The problem is that these extremely diluted dogs have a plethora of skin (and often temperament) problems. I wouldn't be caught dead paying out for a dog from lines like that, but it's your money, and you can do what you want with it. Just be prepared to deal with any health problems that may crop up. IP: Logged |
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luvindogsmom New Member Posts: 7 |
posted 10-02-2003 08:34 PM
I don't plan on paying an arm and a leg for a dog. I have'nt seen the parents yet. I'm just going by what was told to me the parents colors are. I have'nt really decided yet if i'm going to get one or not, It all depends on the parents and grandparents temperments are. Genetics plays a very important part in my decision. IP: Logged |
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the_maine_pitbull Member Posts: 320 |
posted 10-03-2003 06:07 AM
I had a dog that changed colors on me.. She was born and up til about four was black and white, however.. after that her face turned silver and her paws and some of her chest.. People say it was old age.. I say she was morphing colors.. LOL.. I'm kindding, but had to say somethign about it.. Anyone else notcie Pitties tend to get gray at young ages..? My poor old Tooters.. everyone called her "Grey Face" since she was five.. but she is gone now.. Off to Rainbow Bridge to chase birds and squirrels (Oh yeah- and skunks that never spray!!) Angie IP: Logged |
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BandOfGypsysKennels Member Posts: 10 |
posted 11-26-2003 11:26 AM
Well, different people call different colors different names! Anyway, we have "silver" dogs sometimes called "Champaign blue fawn" and no, they are not "washed out" One of my dogs Sachmo is a champion and has beautiful skin and the best temperment I've ever seen in a pit bull! And my other boy "Gypsy Savage" thats "silver", has the best skin, temperment, and conformation as well! He's so goofy! And his father was "silver" too and he was the sweetest, goofiest dog I've ever seen! Never judge a dogs temperment by color! Thats just a myth! Somebodys bloodline might have silvers that have bad temperments or skin but thats their faults in their breeding program! Not the color!!! Anyway, you can go see "Savage" and "Sachmo" on my web-site. Their both on my breedings page! ***EDIT BY MODERATOR*** Please do not post your website to sell puppies, this goes against the Auspet Rules. [This message has been edited by Jas (edited 11-30-2003).] IP: Logged |
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goob Member Posts: 552 |
posted 11-26-2003 01:28 PM
quote: I disagree... That dog Savage has VERY washed out color, as is made even more obvious by his nose being almost pink in color. Of course, it's obvious to anyone who comes across your site that you're REALLY looking to $$$ better $$$$ the $$$$ breed $$$$ by pumping out 3 or 4 litters at a time from un-health tested, un-titled dogs and selling the pups for $2000 apeice IP: Logged |
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neek Member Posts: 291 |
posted 11-26-2003 01:32 PM
I don't think your pitbulls are bred very well, just by reading that you breed LARGE, BIG-HEADED pitbulls is wrong! and then looking at the photos I would say they are not the best looking pitbulls I've seen! Sorry, no hard feelings hey???  IP: Logged |
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benny boy Member Posts: 392 |
posted 11-26-2003 02:12 PM
goob you crack me up!!!!LMAO IP: Logged |
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benny boy Member Posts: 392 |
posted 11-26-2003 02:59 PM
hey BandOfGypsysKennels, i was looking around your site and i clicked on the breedings, you were describing a female as being a 'monster' female. my question to you is, is that a bloodline? or is it just used to describe the dog? if so i was wondering if you would please explain, bc one of my friends adopted a little red nose pup from a guy he worked with and all he told him was that she was a monster pit, and neither one of us know what that means. so i was wondering if you could shed some light on the matter. IP: Logged |
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RedBoy New Member Posts: 1 |
posted 11-30-2003 04:46 PM
I think that Goob, whoever you are, is just being a hater to Band Of Gypsys Kennels just like you were to Mobster Pits! I went and saw the Gypsy Kennel and absolutly loved the look of their dogs and will gladly refer pit bull seekers to them. My friend Sonia Yearwood(who, by the way is a pit bull judge for UKC) thought they were beautiful as well! And to Band Of Gypsys: Shake them haters off!!! IP: Logged |
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BandOfGypsysKennels Member Posts: 10 |
posted 11-30-2003 05:31 PM
To Goob: First, all of my dogs are HEALTH TESTED and UKC/ADBA registered and most have champion bloodlines, so I don't know where that came from! Second, I didn't mean to offend you when I corrected you about "silver" pits. Which I obviously did for you to lash out at me. I went to school on genetics and have studied it deeply for years to better this breed. I've also learned alot from my aunt who has been breeding Pit Bulls for over 30 years. I just so happen to know that what you wrote about the color is untrue. You also show your uneducation of this breed by saying "Savage"s nose is pink. His nose is actually mostly blue and in some parts he's a red nose because his father was a red nose. And "Savage" is registered to UKC and ADBA as a blue nose. And finally, Yes all of my females (4 females), are currently bred. These are all of their FIRST litters ever! Considering that I bred 2 of them for the FIRST time on their SIXTH heat and the other 2 for their FIRST time on their FIFTH heat, shows you how much I love my dogs! I wanted them to become 100% mature and be 100% sure that they were ready for puppies. They just so happened to all come in heat at the same time. And they won't be bred again for at least 2 more heats! I'm REALLY in it 4 the money! HA! I will probably NEVER make as much money on my dogs than I spend on them!!! Don't be mad because I can sell them for that much and could actually sell them for $3000 to $3500 or more if I really wanted to! Thanks and I hope I don't offend you in any way. I'm really writing with kindness. IP: Logged |
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BandOfGypsysKennels Member Posts: 10 |
posted 11-30-2003 05:37 PM
2 Neek, Everyone has their own opinion. I never claimed them 2 be the BEST Pit Bulls in the world! Nobody should claim that! There is no such thing! I was just stating scientific facts! Good luck on you search for the perfect Pit Bull! LOL Anyways, 2 benny boy: He was most likely just talking about the dogs thickness and look. "Wah" on my breedings page is an 80lb. female which is heavy for a female pit. So when people see her they say she's a monster. But it is possible that when your friend said she was a monster pit, they could have been talking about a bloodline that I'm not familiar with. [This message has been edited by BandOfGypsysKennels (edited 11-30-2003).] IP: Logged |
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Fat Pat New Member Posts: 1 |
posted 11-30-2003 05:48 PM
***EDIT BY MODERATOR*** [This message has been edited by Jas (edited 11-30-2003).] IP: Logged |
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goob Member Posts: 552 |
posted 11-30-2003 06:17 PM
quote: Lol, I truly hope that you don't consider those dogs breedable based on their having "champion bloodlines", over 1/2 the APBTs out there today are of "champion bloodlines", it means little in regard to the quality of the dog itself. You go on to further show your ignorance by pointing out the fact that they're registered, apparently to disprove my statement that you are breeding un-health tested, untitled dogs... sorry, but being registered is not the same as being titled, these are not CARS we're talking about here!
quote: Really?... That's actually pretty strange, I checked the OFA database for several of your dogs, as well as your kennel name, and the return I kept getting was "No records matched your request. Please try again." What sort of "HEALTH TESTING" have your dogs had?
quote:http://www.bandofgypsyskennels.com/MALES.html Maybe I'm just colorblind, but the in the pics you show on your website, that dog's nose is PINK! If it's actually not, you might want to get some pics that portray his pigment more truly, as it is very misleading.
quote: Uh huh... and you learned this in "genetics school"? The "blue" coloration is caused by a dog who is actually black in color, but also recieved the dilute gene from it's parents, which dilutes the black to a blue tone. Red (liver) noses occur in dogs that are brown in color. You can't have a dog that is both brown and black (I'm just talking about basecoats, not about patterns)at the same time, therefore, you cannot have a dog that has a "mostly blue and in some parts he's a red nose because his father was a red nose". I bet your buyers believe that though, right? 
quote: That's nice... doesn't prove a thing though, the breeder is the one who marks the puppy registration forms, so if they mark them wrong, either because they don't know better, or because they're trying to pass the pups off as something different, there's nothing to stop them. I still stand by my previous statements about your intentions, as well as the quality of your dogs. IP: Logged |
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ignergehl Member Posts: 174 |
posted 11-30-2003 07:00 PM
Hey band o'gypsy,you can argue until your ears bleeds,but it doesnt matter how many years youve owned pits,how much you know,or how many lovely dogs youve raised,certain individuals on here know more than you and will always know more than you and the sooner you learn it the better you and the entire world of pitbulls will be.I havent learned that yet,but I am trying REAL hard.....(not).... Ive seen your site and also think your dogs are gorgous.The goody-two shoes that so revile dogfighting on here but then want the pitbull to stay small and gamey,are clearly confused!If they want pits to be weight-pullers and hunters and housedogs,they are going to get bigger and more showy!!!Deal with it!! I raised game-bred dogs for years,and found out for the first time that apparently i imagined it,and in actuality know little or nothing about these dogs,which came as a surprise to me! Incidentally,if you will look at the pictures of the 2 dogs belonging to the lord and master of this webpage,you will note that the older dog is very poorly formed,tall and narrow,with an abnormally long nose,and the younger dog does not appear to be a pure pit at all,to me.Does that mean they are not pits??Does being large make a dog not a pit??As true knowledge is acquired in the trenches,I would LOVE to see this persons kennel name in any pedigree,or the name of this persons dogs in the history pages of ANY sporting event involving pitbulls.I want a written history of their experience with the breed,to show where they get their PH.D in pitbull! IP: Logged |
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neek Member Posts: 291 |
posted 11-30-2003 07:12 PM
You make me laugh!!!!! I couldn't see your dogs doing vigourous exercise such as bull-baiting, hog catching or anything like that because lets face it!! That's what pitbulls were bred to do! Your dogs are overweight and frankly they don't look one bit athletic to me, I guess you could use them to sit in the backyard and look good, I'm sorry if I offended you before but everyone's got a right to an opinion. Good luck with you dogs. IP: Logged |
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BandOfGypsysKennels Member Posts: 10 |
posted 11-30-2003 07:19 PM
First off, you need to get a life and quit trying to bash my kennel and other kennels that you know nothing about. If you are looking for dogs that are better taken care of and more HEALTHY than my dogs your not gonna find it. These dogs that I own are not just LIVESTOCK! They are my babies and my family members and are extremely "sheltered" dogs! Secondly, you don't even have my dogs full registered names or registration numbers to do any title searches on my dogs...so in that aspect your a liar...Let me name some of the champions just on 1 of my dogs! Grand Show Champion Kanno's "Shootin' Astro" / Champion Bravestar's "Ima's Nightmare" / Champion Hines "Sly Stallone" / Champion Hines "Stalkin Rambo" / Champion Storytimes "Honky Tonk Blues" / Champion "Blue Leaf Clover" / Champion Perdues "Razors Edge Dinero" / Champion Razors Edge "Inna Rage" / Grand Champion Razors Edge "Throwin Knuckles" What dogs do you own? And who are their CH. bloodlines? Be careful who you lie to though! IP: Logged |
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BandOfGypsysKennels Member Posts: 10 |
posted 11-30-2003 07:29 PM
Also, 2 GOOB: If you say 2 light blue dogs makes the "silver" in my dog than why is his Dam(mother) seal with a black nose(which is black) and his Sire (father) is a "silver" red nose? Which I will soon have them DNAVIP for losers like you who do nothing but spread untrue, vicious rumors! IP: Logged |
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BandOfGypsysKennels Member Posts: 10 |
posted 11-30-2003 07:32 PM
Oh...and to Neek (Goobs trusty sidekick) Yes, my dogs do sit in the yard and look good!  IP: Logged |
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neek Member Posts: 291 |
posted 11-30-2003 07:39 PM
Actually I own two pound rescued pitbull X's. I don't give a damn about bloodlines, what I DO give a damn about is pitbulls that end up in shelters from people that breed their dogs for looks, rather than temperements and selling their puppies to any half-wit with thousands or dollars to spend on their dogs for their image. Let me ask you! Do you screen potential owners?? Do you check out their properties to make sure your pup is safe when you sell it?? And most importantly, do you ask them WHY they want a APBT??. You have to be prepared to cop some slack instead of being so denfensive! Have a GOOD day. IP: Logged |
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neek Member Posts: 291 |
posted 11-30-2003 07:43 PM
Well that's superb!! They just laze around and pop puppies!! very healthy!! I'm not Goob's "trusty side-kick" but I happen to think he knows alot about the breed and his advice has worked for me, so get over it!! IP: Logged |
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BandOfGypsysKennels Member Posts: 10 |
posted 11-30-2003 07:48 PM
Thank you ignergehl for your compliments. It's great to actually hear an educated opinion! I don't even know whos the lord of this site (I just stumbled in here) but I will definately go try to see the "poor" dogs you were talking about. I don't have to have any written experience from these fools to know they obviously have none though!!! IP: Logged |
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goob Member Posts: 552 |
posted 11-30-2003 08:03 PM
quote: I'm guessing this is about my dogs, the tall, and long nosed comment gave it away. Yes, my older dog is out of standard in height, has a long nose, flat feet, among other conformational faults. The younger dog (in addition to needing a diet, she's about 5 lbs too fat) has never been described as "not appear to be a pure pit" (though the older one has), but it's possible. The difference though is that those two out of standard dogs are have not been and never will be bred.
quote: Never said they were ugly (actually, they're better looking then many dogs out of similar lines), just disagreed on the color of one, and dared to question the breeder's notnhaving any titles or health testing on them... in the words of "fat pat", shame on me!
quote: So do you or do you not test for genetic disorders?
quote: No... to search for a dog through the OFA site, you only need part of their name, and/or their breed (if you want to scan through all the other APBTs). I checked several of the names you had your dogs listed as, and browsed the entire APBT listing, found nothing. See for yourself: www.offa.org And might I advise that before hauling off and calling someone a liar, you first look at what you yourself have posted. You stated you do the health testing I mentioned in my first post, yet unless your dogs have some obscure names, they are not listed as having had the tests done, which means they either did have the tests, and failed; or that they have not had the tests. Which is it?
quote: I don't doubt that your dogs have champions in their pedigrees, most APBTs do if you go back a few generations. But a champion (or even several champions) in a dog's pedigree do not make said dog a champion themselves.
quote: I own Gooey, a rangy, out of standard rescue dog (hasn't kept her from being a great buddy for the past 10 yrs); as well as Haley, also an out of standard rescue dog, but a good enough pet that we've decided to keep her around. IP: Logged |
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BandOfGypsysKennels Member Posts: 10 |
posted 11-30-2003 08:04 PM
This will probably be my last reply because I'm not going to stoop to your level anymore. Your immaturity is obvious from your smiley sticking its tounge out. Anyways, Yeah, my dogs really just lay around and pop out puppies,(yeah right) THIS IS THEIR FIRST LITTERS! LOL! Yes, I too own a pit bull rescue who was severly abused as well! Do you want a cookie? My dogs live better than most people do! LOL! But jokes aside its good that you own rescued dogs. But I still love the breed and am devoted to bettering this breed. And yes, we do home checks, background checks, you even have to sign a very long winded agreement. Well, it's obvious you don't like breeders at all but you musn't crucify all breeders for mistakes another breeder might make. You to have a good day and God bless you. IP: Logged |
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BandOfGypsysKennels Member Posts: 10 |
posted 11-30-2003 08:23 PM
My last response: I don't dislike either of you Goob or Neek. I think your probably really nice people. And as fun as this little back and forth disagreement with you two has been for me I thought I was arguing with someone who actually had hands on experience with the genetics of this breed which you obviously have none (being as you only own geneticly defective rescued pit bulls) And when your backed into the corner with mine and others knowledge of the breed you try to jump on the "pity party wagon" of only having adopted dogs. I encourage everybody to adopt at least one dog in their lifetime though. It's a good deed and feels great! But as far as giving advice on the genetics of this breed or any other breed you don't have much knowledge on, I would strongly advise you against doing that. Just because it makes you look stupid and if the truth be known, it probably makes you feel stupid too. Sorry for my sarcasm, I'm actually a really respectful, Godly person. Thanks 4 all the fun! IP: Logged |
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goob Member Posts: 552 |
posted 11-30-2003 08:23 PM
quote: I don't know the genetics of that (I've said before that I only know basic color genetics), but I'd guess that maybe the sire was a dilute red nose (two copies of the dilute gene), and the dam must have been also carrying the dilute gene. I honestly don't know. I never said that the multiple blue x blue breedings had to be right before the "silver" dog, razor's edge lines are known for this "color" because so many people use them to produce oversize, bulky blues, breeding blue x blue and blue x blue, so the color is pretty common in that line (and similar lines) because it's already been brought to the surface through earlier breedings. I also don't think that the dog would have to be a result of a different breeding than you say, as it's possible through the breeding you said, but if you want to DNA-p, more power to you. I also have not spread any rumors... my posts were addressed to you. If I wanted to spread rumors, I would have been crossposting your website with my thought on your dogs, not asking YOU about them to clear up my possible misconceptions. I also do not consider commenting on the lack of health testing and titles on someone's dog "spreading rumors", it's there for anyone to see already, I just pointed it out.
quote: If you're truly interested in bettering the breed, get those dogs screened for genetic diseases, and do something with them aside from letting them be furry lawn ornaments. IP: Logged |
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goob Member Posts: 552 |
posted 11-30-2003 08:56 PM
quote: I appreciate the effort GOOD breeders put into keeping the APBT a healthy, athletic, breed, and have aboslutely NO problem with people breeding responsibly. I do have a problem with people breeding dogs irresponsibly, then complaining and getting on the defensive when someone question their practices.
quote: Ah yes... like you, who cannot tell what color a dog's nose is, and haven't bothered to test their dogs for genetic problems. Afraid of what might be hiding under there?
quote: Yes, but these "geneticly defective rescued pit bulls" came from somewhere... probably a BYB who didn't bother to test their dogs from genetic diseases because they felt that their dogs were healthy enough, and didn't care about conforming to breed standard, much like many other breeders.
quote: You asked, I answered, sorry my answer wasn't good enough for you. Chances are that the only way I'll be getting a dog from a breeder is if I decide to do one of the dog sports that require an intact, registered dog (and there are few now, most sports allow altered, unpapered dogs to compete)... otherwise "defective" rescue dogs are good enough for me, after all, my profit's not on the line here. That would be years down the road though, so I guess i'll be riding the "pity party wagon" for quite a while longer. IP: Logged |
Jas Moderator Posts: 536 |
posted 11-30-2003 10:19 PM
***BandofGypsy Please do not post your website here, this forum is not to be used as a means to sell your multiple litters. I checked your IP and would appreciate it if you stopped registering under other names to praise your kennel and bash our regular members. I am going to have your other identities disabled and ask that you word your future posts carefully. ***Members Please note that BandofGypsyKennels, Redboy & Fat Pat are all the same person. Thank you IP: Logged |
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neek Member Posts: 291 |
posted 11-30-2003 11:02 PM
Are you serious!!!!!! Good work Jas! Now I know this fool is a fraud. IP: Logged |
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neek Member Posts: 291 |
posted 11-30-2003 11:10 PM
To ignerhl (or however you spell it) That wasn't very nice what you said about Goob's dogs. I thought that was Goob's dogs you were referring to but it didn't mention it because I thought it was out of line to say it in the first place. I personally think Goo is a sweetie and so is Haley. And if you are referring to me as well why don't you just come out and say it or can't you handle a difference of opinion?? I don't pretend to know everything about pitbulls nor to I claim to be something I'm not, so instead of beating around the bush and being childish, have the gall to say WHO you are talking about because frankly I don't care to hear you berate me with your cryptic messages! [This message has been edited by neek (edited 11-30-2003).] IP: Logged |
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MaydaysMom Member Posts: 260 |
posted 12-01-2003 12:23 AM
Some people have too much time on their hands. Pity party wagon? I guess if you own a rescue pity than you dont know anything about the breed. Do you realize how many pits with "champion" bloodlines and titles actually do end up at the pound? 3 months ago the director of the rescue I work with rescued a pit who had titled several times in weight pulling from the city pound. Who cares if my pits arnt up to breed standard. They are loving loyal companions who all came from the pound. ' That should only matter if you are a breeder. Also wondering what kind of genetics school did you go to? Do you mean you are mastering in biology and genetics? Or was this a specific school for genetics? Did it pertain to all animals? Humans? or just pits? IP: Logged |
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ignergehl Member Posts: 174 |
posted 12-02-2003 03:21 PM
I want to apologize for what sounded like disparaging remarks about your dogs, goob.What I was trying to say is that pits come in all shapes,sizes, and colors, and always have.Bigger dogs may be the rage now, but have always been around, its one of the beauties of not being AKC,no other breed has so much variance in its appearance!Yet they are all still pits! What I want to know is,if back yard breeding is wrong,and if Gypsys registered dogs are wrong,then what is right? Do you really think that only the top-winning,certified-titled perfect dogs should be bred?99 percent of all the bulldogs I have known were pet-quality dogs,and they were stable and naturally healthy without gene and temperement testing.If only the high dollar dogs were available,then not I nor most of the poeple I know could afford one.And if that was all that was available,then thats what the pounds would be full of! Regardless,no matter what any of us says,no matter how wrong we think this or that practice is,there are ALWAYS going to be unwanted dogs filling the pounds(most of them mutts)as long as poeple own dogs. Couldnt we all just have rational discussions about the history and merits of the breed without preaching about what we think is wrong or right? Maybe their should be a seperate page for discussing the history,working and breeding of pitbulls,for those who cant handle it, and another page for chat about the cute stuff our pit did today!More than any other breed,these are two seperate things! IP: Logged |
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ignergehl Member Posts: 174 |
posted 12-02-2003 04:49 PM
Speaking of unusual colors, check out this 'bluetick' pit! IP: Logged |
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goob Member Posts: 552 |
posted 12-02-2003 06:39 PM
quote: No problem, and I did see the point you were trying to make, though I also think there's a huge difference between my owning dogs with incorrect conformation, and a few health problems, and people breeding dogs without making sure that their dogs ARE healthy and have good conformation.
quote: Yes, I agree... I don't see myself getting one of the larger pit bulls (over 80 lbs or so), though I do like big dogs (I prefer the smaller APBTs, so if I wanted a bigger dog, I'd probably go with one of the molosser breeds). I also understand that some people prefer the big dogs, whether just because they like the way they look, or because they use them to perform tasks that larger dogs are better suited for. So, while it wouldn't be my choice to get a large pit bull, I see no problems with people owning and even breeding them, as long as they do so responsibly (ie: health tests at the very least, titles or actual work SHOULD be done as well).
quote: Many BYBs sell registered dogs, so I don't think that alone designates whether someone is or isn't a BYB. I think that given the situation the APBT is in right now, all breeding stock should be tested for inheritable diseases (HD, etc), and that breeders SHOULD be striving to prove their dogs in some sort of "work", be it weight pull, agility, Schutzhund, whatever.
quote: No, if we did that, we'd be in the same boat as some other breeds, with all sorts of health problems due to a small pool of "breedable" dogs. I don't think it would be too much though to say that only dogs who have healthy hips, heart, eyes, etc; with good temperament and at least some trainability/working ability should be bred, do you? I don't think anyone wants to see the APBT go the way of many of the mastiff breeds, all ability bred out, many dogs so unsound (sctruturally) that they're crippled by the time they're 5 yrs old... there are enough APBTs out there that even with the criteria I suggested for breeding dogs, there would be plenty of breedable dogs left.
quote: True, many dogs, even poorly bred ones, are (at least appear, some dogs can be even very dysplastic, but never show obvious symptoms) healthy and sound. It's becoming more common though for APBTs to be affected with health problems, according to the OFA site, almost 20% (1 in 5) of APBTs who's x-rays are sent to them are dysplastic. That doesn't count the ones who's owners don't bother to send them if they can already tell the dogs won't pass, so the number may actually be higher than it appears.
quote: True, and I agree completely. However, many pups that I've seen out of the hip tested, even proven performance (ie: weight pull, agility) dogs are under $1000 for a pet pup (I've seen them as low as $500, though many are in the 6-800 range), usually under $1500 for a show/working prospect. While this is still more than you'd pay for a pup from some BYBs, it's less than you'd pay for most pups from the "HUGE BLUE", "BUCKET HEAD", "THICK AS BUFFALO" pups many BYB's advertise. And the pups from the responsible breeder would likely have several generations of health tested, proven working parents behind them, whereas it's more of a crap shoot with the BYB pup.
quote: I partially agree, BUT how many Afgan Hounds do you see in shelters? How about those Bedlington Terriers? I've never seen or heard of any in our local shelters, though I'm sure there are a few out there. Could it be that it's because breeders are more careful about where their pups go, and are more selective of breeding stock than many APBT breeders? I think that if more people would lighten up on the number of litters bred (say, through only breeding healthy, sound dogs), and be more selective of homes, there would be less APBTs in shelters. Yes, there would still be dogs in shelters, APBTs too, but not nearly as many as there are now (I think in one part of california alone, they PTS around 600 pit bulls and pit mixes a WEEK).
quote: We could... we could also pretend that if we just ignore the problems with the breed today, everything will magically turn out okay... that is, until the day comes when they decide to collect all our dogs and haul them off to be killed. I agree that the subject of breeding, BYBs (like what makes a BYB a BYB, whether they should or shoudln't breed) is grounds for a lot of disagreement and debate, but IMO, it's one of the bigger problems facing the breed, because it's at the root of all the other problems. The only way people are ever going to reach an agreement (of sorts, anyway) on things is by discussing them, arguing, etc, and sharing differing views. I may disagree with a lot of the things you (and others) say, but it helps me to get a better understanding of why people with that viewpoint feel the way they do, so that even if I don't agree with it, I can still understand why they feel that way. IP: Logged |
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ignergehl Member Posts: 174 |
posted 12-05-2003 07:02 PM
I would like to own one or more dogs from the mastiff types as well, have you ever seen an african boerdog in person? They are awesome! I like the Neos too but they drool so bad you cant EVEN keep one indoors! The stories I have heard about the Dogo Argentino make me want one of those too someday. Im thinking a team of Dogo and pitbull for hog-catching would be spectacular. When I said that most pits I have known were healthy,for one thing, most of the pits I have known were small-town back-woods dogs almost completely free from 'popularization', and they were sporting dogs,so even though they werent health-tested, their breeders knew the health history of their bloodlines and didnt breed dysplastic dogs or dogs with bad eyes and elbows because they would have been useless as athletes. They also knew immediately if these dogs had any of these problems as they simply couldnt perform. Its easier for some byb who's dogs feigned no more strenuous function than to lay on the couch to pass the progeny off as healthy as many of these problems dont become obvious for years.Its also been several years since I was heavily involved in the breed and I was forgetting that with the rise in popularity of any breed ( which has unfortunatly happened with pits),comes a sharp rise in health problems. My ghetto neighbors have ANOTHER pit, a pup they just aquired....it makes me want to kill everybody....(they have 2 already, and they are very aggressive.) IP: Logged |
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goob Member Posts: 552 |
posted 12-05-2003 09:46 PM
quote: I'm not even sure I know of the breed you're referring to... are they also known as Boerboels? Either way, I've never seen one in person, though I have seen some nice looking ones online. I like most of the "tight skinned" molossers, but have met only a few (two CCs, a couple Presas, more ABs, and a few others of various breeds and mixes), so I'd have to spend more time among the dogs before I could choose which breed would be best for me. The rest of your post, I agree with completely (though I do think health problems may occasionally slip through even working dogs, not nearly to the extent of non-working dogs), and it's too bad about your neighbor's new pup IP: Logged |
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ignergehl Member Posts: 174 |
posted 12-06-2003 11:08 AM
Yeah Boerboels is the actual name of the breed, I knew some folks who raised them and they called them boerdogs like we call pits bulldogs.They had a 160 pound male that made you go weak in the knees when you first met him, but he was very friendly. IP: Logged |
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HOPS Member Posts: 21 |
posted 12-08-2003 07:50 PM
YOU GUYS REALLY HAVE TO GET OTHER HOBBIES!!ALL I HEAR GOOB,NEEK,AND ALL THE OTHER BASHERS,BASH,BASH.BANDOFGYPSY KEEP DOING WHAT YOU DO.THESE PEOPLE LIVE FOR THIS!!ANY REAL MAN OR WOMEN DONT HAVE TO DOWN GRADE SOME ONE ELSE OR THERE DOGS,WE SHOULD TEST HUMANS SO THEY STOP PRODUCING BASHERS AND HATERS!!!!AND THERE GENETIC FLAWS DOWN UNDER(HAHA.IN SHORT HAVE A GREAT DAY AND I AM SURE WE ALL LOVE ARE DOGS,AND THINK WE HAVE THE BEST TO OUR PREFENCE!!!!!OUR OPINION!!!OUR CHOICE.NOBODY IS FORCED TO BUY THESE DOGS.AND I APPRECIATE PEOPLE SELLING THERE DOGS FOR $1000 TO $5000.KEEPS THEM OUT OF EVERY BODYS HANDS.NOBODY GOING TO A DOG THEY SPENT $5000 OUTSIDE ON THE CHAIN,OR IN A RUN IN THERE ON POOP.ALL DAY LONG.HAVE A GREAT HOLIDAY!!!YOUR DOGS REFLECT YOU SO WATCH WHAT YOU SAY!!! IP: Logged |
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neek Member Posts: 291 |
posted 12-08-2003 08:21 PM
I simply had an opinion about their dogs and I'm entitled to express it!! Bandogypsy's retaliated with some out-of-line comments to a few people on this thread and I have no doubt they will continue to breed their dogs. Good luck to the fraudulents and to the people who buy their pups.  IP: Logged |
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neek Member Posts: 291 |
posted 12-08-2003 08:24 PM
HA HA YOURSELF IP: Logged |
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