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Author Topic:   How to fit a german prong collar!!
RottyMommy

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Posts: 480
From:Harrisburg,PA USA
Registered: Feb 2003

posted 09-24-2003 08:12 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for RottyMommy     Edit/Delete Message
Here is the article on properly fitting a prong collar I may have more I have to look

How to Fit a Prong Collar

Take any link apart to remove a prong collar from the dogs neck
Never slip a prong collar over the head to take it off.


I train dogs with prong collars. There are very few dogs that I would not train with a prong collar. I recommend them to new dog owners, new trainers and people who own dogs with behavioral problems. While some think a prong looks nasty the fact is they are far more humane than a normal choke collar.

The biggest problem with prong collars is that new dog owners don't know how to put them on, how to size them or how to have their dog wear them. This article will address these issues.

Normal choke collars need to be ordered by length (i.e. 22 inches long etc.) Prong collars on the other hand are ordered my by weight - Extra Heavy: Heavy: Light Etc. They all come in a standard length which is adjusted to fit the neck of the dog by removing or adding links to the collar.

Prong collars are meant to be put-on and taken-off before and after daily training sessions. Unlike a choke collar that are often left on the dog all the time (in some cases this can be a dangerous practice).

A common problem new trainers have is they don't remove enough links to get the correct snug fit. When that happens the collar hangs down on the dogs neck which results in the collar not working the way that it was designed. A prong collar should fit the way you see it in the photo below.

A properly fit Prong Collar on a Doberman

The correct position for a prong collar is to sit right behind the ears and up under the jaw line like you see in the photos above. The photo below shows how many people mistakenly let a dog wear a prong.

This photo above demonstrates a prong collar that was not properly sized for the dog. The collar is too loose and riding to far down on the dogs neck. It should be up where I have drawn the yellow line.

This collar is correctly sized and fits properly.
The rings on the leash are attached to are in the right place on the side of the neck.


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[This message has been edited by RottyMommy (edited 09-24-2003).]

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RottyMommy

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From:Harrisburg,PA USA
Registered: Feb 2003

posted 09-24-2003 08:36 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for RottyMommy     Edit/Delete Message
Sizing the Prong

Adding and Removing Links


Some people mistakenly try and put a prong collar on their dog by slipping it over the dogs head and then moving it down on the neck. That's wrong. Prong collars are designed to be put on and taken off by unhooking links and actually unsnapping the collar from around the neck.

The right way to unhook a collar is to pinch one of the links and pull it apart. Taking the collar off is always easier than putting it back on.

This photo shows how to pinch a link and take the collar off the dogs neck.


This photo shows how to start reconnecting a link to put the collar back on the dogs neck. Put one side of the prong of a link in one side of the connecting link. Then squeeze the link with the thumb until the other side drops in place.


When both prongs are lines up (by using thumb pressure on the link) the collar will go back together.

Problems develop if new trainers try and fit both sides of the link together without using thumb pressure to squeeze the link together - unless the prong is pinched together it will never reconnect.


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Proper Placement Once the Collar is On the Dog

Most of the time when a collar is put on a dog the handler connects the collar with the links behind the dogs ears - this is the easiest place to access the links (by the red arrow in the photo above). Once the collar is on the neck the rings to connect the leash to are under the dogs chin - which is the wrong place for them to be. You will have to rotate the collar so the rings are in the proper spot on the dogs neck. This is usually on the right side of the neck - like you see in the photo below.


This photo shows a well fit prong collar - it is sized properly, it is sitting in the correct spot on the dogs neck and the rings are located in the correct spot for the leash to be attached
(right side of the neck).


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RottyMommy

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From:Harrisburg,PA USA
Registered: Feb 2003

posted 09-24-2003 08:36 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for RottyMommy     Edit/Delete Message
Dead-Ring Vs Live-Ring

There are two ways to attach a leash to the prong collar. It can either be connected to the live-ring or the dead-ring. Which one you choose will depend on the dog and what you are trying to do.


Leash that is attached to the live-ring on the prong collar.

When the snap is on the live-ring the correction is amplified because more slack is taken out of the collar when the correction is given and the leash is popped. The live-ring is used if a dog does not respond well to the snap being placed on the dead-ring.

This photo shows how to attach a snap to the dead-rings on the prong collar.

The first time a prong is used on a dog the snap should be on the dead-ring. When a correction is applied and the leash is attached to the dead-ring the correction will not take as much slack out of the collar as when it is attached to the live-ring.
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Please observe in this photo that not only is he showing an improperly fitted collar on the dog's neck, but the prongs are going in the wrong direction and the leash loop is not on the right hand side of the dog's neck. This is a great photo for showing what so many people do with a prong collars who don't know how to properly fit or apply one. Proper fit and application is critical to proper use of this collar. It may be that it has gotten a bad name because so many so-called trainers out there don't really know how to fit and apply, much less use, this collar.

The prong collars that utilize a quick release snap are the best way to go! Makes taking the prong collar on and off so much easier!

[This message has been edited by Auspetian (edited 09-24-2003).]

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honeybear
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Registered: May 2003

posted 09-25-2003 02:51 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for honeybear     Edit/Delete Message
Rottymommy, thanks for posting this, I just posted on the other question about what kind of collar to use and How I was properly taught to use a prong collar. They need to come with instructions! something like your pictures would be great.
Honeybear

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jeminn
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Posts: 166
From:Colorado, USA
Registered: Jul 2003

posted 09-25-2003 03:52 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for jeminn     Edit/Delete Message
Good info on the proper use of prong collars. As a side note it may be worth mentioning to skeptics that this type of training collar mimmicks a mother dog picking her pup up by the scruff of the neck, with equal pressure around the neck you are not cutting off air circulation nor do you need much correction to get the dogs attention, thus making your training experience much more effective for both you and your dog. It is very important these collars (as with any collar or training device) are used properly and I would advise anyone choosing this type of collar to have an experienced trainer work with you and your dog to show you how to correctly handle and size it for your dog. About the GL- I understand the concept behind them, but they personally have not worked very well for me. Every dog is different, and it is important to find a technique you are comfortable with as well as something that is effective for your training goals.

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honeybear
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posted 09-26-2003 11:16 AM     Click Here to See the Profile for honeybear     Edit/Delete Message
JEMINN - I agree with you on getting a trainer to show you how to use them. The picture work great to show how to fit. but I would never have known how to use it without my trainer showing me and then it took me awhile to get the hang of it and you are right you do not need to be harsh, just a gentle quickjerk
Honeybear

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rgyoung777
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From:Seattle, WA, USA
Registered: Apr 2003

posted 09-29-2003 07:06 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for rgyoung777     Edit/Delete Message
Rottymommy,

I've been given instructions on fitting the prong collar that directly contradict those you have posted here.

Almost everything I have read and heard specifically warns against placing a prong that high on the dog's neck.

My dog's prong is fitted so that it rests in the middle of her neck, and she has always been extremely responsive to it.

I'm not sure if you're familiar with Suzanne Clothier, but she has written an extremely helpful and informative article on fitting and using prong collars. I would encourage everyone to read the article found in this link: http://www.flyingdogpress.com/prong.html

Just wanted to share that with everyone, as I think it is a good article.

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the_maine_pitbull
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From:Allagash, Maine USA
Registered: Oct 2003

posted 09-30-2003 07:01 AM     Click Here to See the Profile for the_maine_pitbull     Edit/Delete Message
I highly doubt that RottyMommy would have went through the trouble of posting that whole thing if she wasn't sure of the use.. Many websites also tell you that the use of choke chains is number one choice.. whereas, I think they are dangerous as hell.. Does that mean they are right though because they have a website on it..? Rotty has used the prong collar, maybe it doesn't work for some, however it was a question I had asked her and I took her advice and to be honest it has been a God sent for me.. I asked my vet if I were doing it right to make sure (showed her the way I was using it) and the vet said I was right on.. high on the neck and all..

Angie

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rgyoung777
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From:Seattle, WA, USA
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posted 09-30-2003 07:17 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for rgyoung777     Edit/Delete Message
Mainepitbull, you might want to do a little research on Suzanne Clothier before you pass off that article as meaningless.

She's a very well-known trainer and behaviorist and I think her knowledge on the subject is very helpful, informative, and correct. Do a search for books authored by her on Amazon, or check out the rest of http://www.flyingdogpress.com

I am not saying prongs are harmful, and neither is Clothier.

Did you read the article, or did you just assume that it was anti-prong?

My dog wears a prong collar on walks, but not directly behind her ears--she wears it in the middle of her neck (not LOW on her neck--right in the middle) and it works just fine. This is how I was instructed to use it by several people.

There's plenty of room for differing opinions in dog training. I just wanted to give people access to something that had a different take on how to use the prong.

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honeybear
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posted 10-01-2003 10:48 AM     Click Here to See the Profile for honeybear     Edit/Delete Message
Rj - thank you for posting the link to the article - I was in the same situation as the person with golden she was talking about. I had a huge 6 month old lab. I started in obedience school - went thru it twice with no change - (They said only use the choke collar) I then brought another trainer in for one session that recommended the prong and showed me how to use it. It was a life saver! Well that was 5 years ago and now he is good on just a choke since he has mellowed so much and doesnt pull at all.

Honeybear

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RottyMommy

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From:Harrisburg,PA USA
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posted 10-01-2003 11:34 AM     Click Here to See the Profile for RottyMommy     Edit/Delete Message
RJYoung I do know about Suzanne Clothier. However i dont agree with her method of using the prong collar. No prong collar of choke collar should be at the bottom of middle of a dogs neck. I hate choker collars so I wont even go into that. I have been using the prong collar with my 115 pound rotty for training purposes. I have a dog trainer and he is also a dog behaviorist that is known nationwide for his work with aggressive dogs. Doug Parson is an amazing trainer who has also done work with Tim Turner who trained Hulk Hogan's tigers and Shamu. So I would think they know what they are talking about. This is also used byt many other trainers who I work with, k9 detectives, and many other members of a huge rottweiler forum I belong to. It is safer on the dogs neck to use it this way. And I have never met a vet or trainer that has said otherwise. I and many other trainers, behaviorists, pet psychics, and police officers have spent a great deal of time doing research to make sure that this is the proper way to use each type of collar that we use. Along with studies that have been done to determine the possibility of any injuries. In all those test only one dog that used a prong collar had an injury to his neck and that was caused by another injury not from the prong collar. So I am sorry if you disagree and for what I feel is wrong advvice from Clothier but you are entitled to your own opinion and I can respect that. But There are too many facts and too many known trainers and specialists to use the prong collar any other way.

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RottyMommy

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From:Harrisburg,PA USA
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posted 10-01-2003 12:27 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for RottyMommy     Edit/Delete Message
RjYoung also check Diane Baum's book Beyond Basic Dog Obedience for more info on the proper way to use a prong. The prong goes close behind the ears not down on the dog's neck. Even the original instructions that used to come with the collars from Germany said they go behind the ears and the prongs open to the left, etc. Suzanne Clothier learned the wrong way from someone who didn't really know and therefore Clothier is spreading fiction on how to put a prong on a dog. do the research as this is the best way.

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rgyoung777
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From:Seattle, WA, USA
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posted 10-01-2003 12:48 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for rgyoung777     Edit/Delete Message
Thanks for the response, Rottymommy. I just wanted to let people know that there are other schools of thought on what is "proper" prong usage.
My intent in posting that was not to start an argument or make you feel like you had to defend your method--it was merely to illustrate that there are other, equally successful (my dog and all the dogs Clothier has trained using the prong her way are examples of it working just fine) methods of using the prong collar.

You say that it is "safest" up behind the ears--can you explain that to me? I'm wondering why a vet would say that, as a dog's neck in that area is very unprotected and extremely sensitive.
IMO, and in Clothier's, it's safer in the middle of the neck (NOT down low by the shoulders) because this area is dense in muscle.

In any case, perhaps we should just agree to disagree. Sometimes that's best when it comes to dog training. As I said before, my intent was merely to demonstrate that there are other, very qualified opinions out there on how to use a prong. My method is working for my dog and I, and I know it's worked for others as well.

By the way, my nickname is rgyoung777, not rjyoung777. Thanks!

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RottyMommy

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From:Harrisburg,PA USA
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posted 10-16-2003 02:20 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for RottyMommy     Edit/Delete Message
bumping up for Angie

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jp
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posted 11-10-2003 02:09 PM           Edit/Delete Message
RottyMommy how do you know what the right weight collar is for your dog? I came across your original post when doing a search on how to properly fit a prong collar. I have a Doberman and I think the size of the prongs is too small. I think it's the smallest one at 2.25 mm.

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RottyMommy

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From:Harrisburg,PA USA
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posted 11-10-2003 11:11 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for RottyMommy     Edit/Delete Message
Usually for rottweiler and doberman the medium size is all you need. I have a 90 pound rotty and a 115 pound rotty and I use the medium size for both of them. Basically the size of the links what you should do is start from the smallest and work your way up. As long as the collar doesnt break you its fine. Sometimes the larger ones may be wanted for more of an effect but im not sure how much of a difference it makes.

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MaydaysMom
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From:MO, USA
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posted 11-13-2003 01:34 AM     Click Here to See the Profile for MaydaysMom     Edit/Delete Message
Prong collars are MUCH better than choke collars.
However I use either a gentle leader or a halti. (I prefer the gentle leader over the halti) Its like a horse bridal only for dogs. Its more natural.
However some dogs are just too muscular for them and then the prong collar is a wonderful alternative.

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