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Author Topic:   Should a pitbull that attacks be put to sleep?
Rott_Lover
unregistered
posted 12-15-2002 01:20 PM           Edit/Delete Message
I have a question, would like to get other opinions.
My 7 month old rottweiler puppy was attacked and killed by two pitbulls 3 weeks ago. These pitbulls did not have a history of attacking before this, this was the fourth time our dogs had played together and Max loved going over there- he got excited about going there the same way he would get excited going to the dog park.
These two pits completely maimed my puppy. I have heard that once pits attack and kill, they will almost always attack again. Is this true, do you think that these should these dogs be put to sleep?

I am good friends with the owner, by the way, and for anyone who thinks that pit bulls are only agressive when their owner raises them bad, they are wrong, these dogs have never been beat, they get plenty of attention and exercise, the only thing I think he did wrong was not socializing them.

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mini_pony_gal
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posted 12-15-2002 05:57 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for mini_pony_gal     Edit/Delete Message
YES!! Pit bulls are by nature a dangerous dog. They are bred for fighting, and I believe they should all be put to sleep. My mum also agrees, once they kill, they may do it again, and next time it could be a child. Tell your friend to get a cocker spaniel, or any othe breed of dog, no matter how well you raise a pit bull remember that they have the instinct to kill bred into them. (I get kinda emotional, I really feel strongly about this)

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Albert
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Posts: 160
From:Sydney
Registered: Oct 2002

posted 12-15-2002 06:05 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for Albert     Edit/Delete Message
Hi Rott_Lover,

I’m sorry to hear your story.

It saddens me to hear about dogs being put to sleep just because they
were following their instincts. I wish there was an alternative to us humans making dogs pay with their lives for the mistakes we humans make. Like breeding certain types of known to be dangerous dogs and having them sold as pets.

To my opinion NO DOG should be put to sleep and pay with his life for following his instincte (unless the dog is very sick and suffering etc.). I really rally wish we had an alternative.

We humans should address the source of the problem instead, with breeding restrictions on known to be dangerous breeds. Maybe also compulsory training (for the owner and dog of certain breeds) etc.

Killing animals just because they were following their instinct is WRONG and
it is very unfortunate that it seams to be the only remedy available.

See our discussion re: Pool about Pit Bulls here.

[This message has been edited by Albert (edited 12-15-2002).]

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Rott_Lover
unregistered
posted 12-15-2002 08:28 PM           Edit/Delete Message
Albert- Do you know other options once they have attacked?
If there are other things to do to ensure these dogs will not attack again, I would love to suggest them to my friend- I already lost my baby, I wouldn't wish this feeling on anyone, so if there are other options, I would love to let him know about them.

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mini_pony_gal
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posted 12-15-2002 08:43 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for mini_pony_gal     Edit/Delete Message
In response to what Albert said, yes I do think it is wrong to kill a dog, but what other choices are there? 9I dont know any) If anyone is to blame, it is the people who "invented" the breed. It is sad that we have turned "mans best friend" into a killer. If they stopped breeding these dogs, then none would have to be killed. Maybe you could tell the owners to keep the dogs locked up and muzzled? Could they live with the knowledge that the dogs next victem could be a child?

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Albert
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From:Sydney
Registered: Oct 2002

posted 12-15-2002 08:59 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for Albert     Edit/Delete Message
A good strong leash and a mouth restraint at all times. It’s the only thing
I can think of other then fileing their teeth and feeding them baby food for the rest of their life .

I'm no expert and unfortunately I can not see any (real) other alternatives other then the one you’ve mentioned above. These dogs should not have been sold as pets to begin with.

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mini_pony_gal
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posted 12-15-2002 09:23 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for mini_pony_gal     Edit/Delete Message
Just curious, why do peoplr buy these dogs? They have a reputation for being vicious.

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spjoma25
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From:cardboard box canada
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posted 12-15-2002 09:30 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for spjoma25     Edit/Delete Message
any dog could be visious, it mainly depends on how you care for it. I have friends with the nicest cutest pittbull i've ever seen and they love it to death, while I used to have a lab who was just mean by nature

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Albert
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From:Sydney
Registered: Oct 2002

posted 12-15-2002 09:32 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for Albert     Edit/Delete Message
In response to mini_pony_gal
...Just curious, why do peoplr buy these dogs? They have a reputation for being vicious....

Exactly what I was thinking...

And the word fetish (?????) crossed my mind.

[This message has been edited by Albert (edited 12-15-2002).]

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mini_pony_gal
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posted 12-15-2002 09:39 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for mini_pony_gal     Edit/Delete Message
Really? ive never met a mean lab.

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Rott_Lover
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posted 12-16-2002 12:40 AM           Edit/Delete Message
spjoma25 wrote: "any dog could be visious, it mainly depends on how you care for it. I have friends with the nicest cutest pittbull i've ever seen and they love it to death, while I used to have a lab who was just mean by nature"

The two dogs that attacked my puppy were very "sweet" dogs- all of our friends were in complete shock when they found out- It's not just about how they are raised- these dogs were raised well, he has never hit them, always gave them plenty of attention, exercise, food, water, etc- These are just dogs bred for fighting, it is in their genes. This might just be rumor, but one of the things I have since heard is that part of the reason that they attack is that they are bred in such a way that their brains are bigger than their skulls, putting pressure on their brains and causing paranoia which leads to the attacking.
As for why people get pitbulls, I think it is just lack of education- I had no idea that they could turn like this until it happened and I started researching it, I, like my friend who owns them, thought that with a proper home, loving care, and training the dogs would be great dogs- I believe that he got both of them from the shelter when they were small puppies- I know they were not from a breeder-
Unfortunately it is not true that loving owners can make the dog a good dog, I agree that there should be a ban on breeding these dogs.

[This message has been edited by Rott_Lover (edited 12-16-2002).]

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Doc Helladay
unregistered
posted 12-16-2002 01:41 AM           Edit/Delete Message
Now there is a very interesting point: They were never mistreated Pitts..Like others have said its in their nature...IT will always be like that...their attacks will be out of the blue for no reason...They are bred for fighting PERIOD1!!!! The majority of folk do NOT LIKE PITTS..How would everyone that owns pitts like to have Tigers dropped at their doorstep, I think not...We live out in the country we have to worry about possums attacking our dogs..We shoot em that is how we keep them from breeding..But back to the pitts You summed it up "dogs werent mistreated" does that tell ones that are not against them anything?

O->-< <----------Doc running from PITTS
@--^-@ <----------Ambulance rushing a child to hospital
@--(-------- A rose for those who have been injured or died by the jaws and teeth of Pitts!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
I am just a lil pitt
I have no mercy or second thought
I was bred with the witt
To bite, remember Im a fighter
Only way I can be stopped
Is for humans to take control
Im sweet when I want to be
Im mean when I have to be
How can that be
Well you can't set us free
Not like lions tigers and bears
You can't hang us from a tree
Please stop breeding us so we do not
Have to face laws that will put
US TO DEATH

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PITBULL_PRINCESS1979
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Posts: 414
From:LOUISIANA,USA
Registered: Dec 2002

posted 12-16-2002 11:27 AM     Click Here to See the Profile for PITBULL_PRINCESS1979     Edit/Delete Message
JUST BECAUSE A PIT ATTACTS ONCE DOES NOT MEAN THAT THEY WILL ATTACT AGAIN...

ALOT OF YOU PEOPLE ON HEAR THINK YOU KNOW EVERYTHING...I HAVE ONE QUESTION DO YOU OWN A PIT....NO..I DID NOT THINK SO.

I RAISE AND BREED PITBULLS ..I CAN NOT PROMISE THAT THE PITS WILL NEVER ATTACT AGAIN,BUT THAT GOES FOR ANY DOG.

FOR ALL YOU STUPID PEOPLE THAT THINK PITS NEED TO BE PUT DOWN...MAYBE WHAT EVER KIND OF DOG YOU HAVE NEED TO BE PUT DOWN TO..IF YOU HAVE A PROBLEM WITH WHAT I AM SAYING JUST EMAIL ME!!!

[This message has been edited by Auspetian (edited 12-16-2002).]

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Jnet
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posted 12-29-2002 11:41 AM           Edit/Delete Message
As for the question of why people own Pit Bulls....I am 55 years old and have owned so many dogs, it's hard to count them all. Breed German Shepards and Poodles. Have rescued Dobermans, Collie, Rottweiler, mixed breeds, etc..I was given a Pit Bull pup in 1981 and have owned one since that day.
I'm quite good at training and handling dogs.I always seem to rescue the hopeless ones......
The pit bull is the dog, who really wants to please it's owner. I have found them to be the easiest dog to train, I've ever had. A well-breed pit bull is smart, thinks, and only wants to please his master.
But you do have to know the breed you are dealing with. What was he breed for?
I can tell you more horror stories from German Shepards, than I know from Pit Bulls.
The most dangerous dog that has ever been in my neighborhood is a Dalmantion. He was raised inside with 2 children, and has grown up to be a dog who attacks other animals and has bitten several people.
My friend brought her Chow to my house, and it tried to attack all three of my dogs. Two mixed breeds walked off, but the Pit Bull stood his ground. He was breed to do that. I was there and knew what to do....
We have a 4 lb. rescue with the Pit Bull, Rottweiler/mix, who will attack another dog for a pig ear. We know this and never leave them alone with food treats around.
The only true safe dog in my household, with people is the Pit Bull. But remember he will not take abuse from another dog. He will defend himself. I always learn about the breed I'm dealing with.
I have only recently adopted an abused Rottweiler/mix. I didn't know anything about this breed, so I started learning all I could about this breed. He will never be as good with strangers, as the Pit Bull for he was breed to defend and be a guard dog. And he does do what he was breed for, he watchs and proctects everything......
Take any breed, tie him up in the backyard, do not let him meet lots of people or other animals, never give him rules to live by, and see what you have......A very dangerous animal!!!!!!

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Russ
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posted 12-30-2002 03:33 PM           Edit/Delete Message
<As for why people get pitbulls, I think it is just lack of education- I had no idea that they could turn like this until it happened and I started researching it, I, like my friend who owns them, thought that with a proper home, loving care, and training the dogs would be great dogs- I believe that he got both of them from the shelter when they were small puppies- I know they were not from a breeder-
Unfortunately it is not true that loving owners can make the dog a good dog, I agree that there should be a ban on breeding these dogs. >>

Hi Rott lover,
So sorry to hear about the tragic loss of your pup =(

I am no pitbull expert, but I do love mine and have many books about them in my dog section.

Most pits are not bred for fighting anymore. At least here in Canada and USA. Where your friend got his pits from could answer alot of questions. Reasearching the Bloodline could tell you alot about how your dogs will turn out. There are many lines now that are bred for the more desireable traits in the pitbull, like; courage, loyalty, strength, agility, intelligence, desire to please master, gameness. ****Good breeders do not breed dog aggressive dogs.**** This is what is being bred out of the line.

Yes a lack of education is much to blame in most pit bull scenarios. Pit bulls require advanced dog handlers and factual knowledge, not myths or rumours.
1. 3 dogs equals a pack and everthing we think we know about the everyday common dog , changes, to pack mentality, a hierarchy is formed.
2. The dogs need to be socialized with dogs & people starting from 16 weeks
3. Don't believe what Joe smoe says, do your research correctly and buy some books that were written specifically on this breed.
4. Never let 2 pits from the same pack play with one dog from another, they will dominate it.
5. Owning a pit bull is a much greater responsibility than owning other more familiar breeds. It requires more knowledge, dedication, responsibility and dicsipline.
6. Know the pit and how it thinks, yes it is a dog and thinks like a dog, however, it is like a Great white shark. It is above all the lesser breeds in a physical presence.

"This might just be rumor, but one of the things I have since heard is that part of the reason that they attack is that they are bred in such a way that their brains are bigger than their skulls, putting pressure on their brains and causing paranoia which leads to the attacking."

Yes this is a rumor, it does sound ridiculous when you really think about it.

Best regards,

Russell

[This message has been edited by Auspetian (edited 01-05-2003).]

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its a pittie
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posted 01-06-2003 11:57 AM           Edit/Delete Message
I own a pitbull pup, I rescued him from sure death. I was very worried he may turn out vicious and have gone to great lengths to train and socialise him and got him neutered at an early age. He has been very easy to train as he is keen on pleasing me, as are all pitbulls.

We were out walking and socializing the other day when my staffie was attacked by a golden retriever. This golden has attacked before. My pit did not fight back, but instead returned to me immediately. Had he fought back, he surely would have won and in turn been confiscated and put to sleep, but its not the life I have in mind for him. How is it this known golden offender is allowed to live, while my pup must live with all this hype? All he wants to do is play and snuggle.

Something not addressed in all these posts is the difference between dog aggression and people aggression. Very different.

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PITBULL_PRINCESS1979
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Posts: 414
From:LOUISIANA,USA
Registered: Dec 2002

posted 01-06-2003 12:43 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for PITBULL_PRINCESS1979     Edit/Delete Message
HEY PITTIE,

I HAVE TO AGREE WITH YOU WHEN TALKING ABOUT BEING DOG AGGRESSIVE AND PEOPLE AGGRESSIVE.IT IS TWO DIFFERENT THINGS.MOST PEOPLE DO NOT SEE IT THAT WAY..THE HEAR OR SEE PITBULL AND THEY FREAK OUT...WHAT THEY FELL TO REALLIZE IS PITBULLS ARE VERY LOYAL,KIND,AND WANT TO PLEASE AND PROTECT THEIR MASTER...TO ME, A DOG THAT WANT TO DO THAT IS A GREAT DOG...NO MATTER WHAT KIND IT IS..
I AM SURE YOUR PUPPY IS VERY GREATFUL THAT YOU SAVED HIM FROM A HORRIBLE LIKE..I AM SURE HE WILL BE A FAITHFUL AND LOVING COMPANION FOR MANY YEARS TO COME.YOU BOTH ARE VERY LUCKY TO HAVE FOUND EACH OTHER.

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PITBULL_PRINCESS1979
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Posts: 414
From:LOUISIANA,USA
Registered: Dec 2002

posted 01-09-2003 02:48 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for PITBULL_PRINCESS1979     Edit/Delete Message
I WAS JUST LOOKING OVER WHAT EVERYONE HAS POSTED AND I HAVE SOMETHING TO SAY TO MINI_PONY_GAL....YOU SAID THAT THE OWNERS SHOULD KEEP THESE DOGS LOCKED UP OR MUZZLED.hOW DO YOU THINK DOGS GET VICIOUS ?....
MOST DOGS (NOT JUST PITBULL)BITE BECAUSE THEY HAVE BEEN MISTREATED.HOW ABOUT I LOCK YOU UP AND KEEP YOU MUZZLED.HOW WOULD YOU LIKE THAT?
SO,IF YOU DO NOT KNOW MUCH ABOUT THIS BREED YOU NEED TO KEEP YOUR OPINIONS TO YOUR SELF.IF YOU WOULD TAKE THE TIME TO PICK UP A BOOK AND READ ABOUT THIS BREED(AND I DON'T MEAN READ MEDIA HYPE)YOU WILL LEARN SOMETHING.
PITBULL DESERVE TO BE ON THIS EARTH JUST AS MUCH AS HUMANS DO.NO,THEY DESERVE TO BE HERE MORE THAN HUMANS.WE KILL MORE THAN ANYTHING.
YOU NEED TO EDUCATE YOURSELF BEFORE YOU SAY MUCH ABOUT THIS TOPIC,BECAUSE FROM WHERE I AM STANDING YOU DON'T KNOW S**T!

[This message has been edited by Auspetian (edited 01-09-2003).]

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steamer
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posted 01-10-2003 11:40 AM           Edit/Delete Message
mini_pony_gal, you really believe that my dog should die just because he's an American Pit Bull Terrier? That is, after all, exactly what you said. I guess my father deserves to be dead. After all, my "pit bull" saved his life one day. If he had been put to sleep according to your savage wishes, my father would be dead right now. How does that make you feel about what you said? Please educate yourself. Statistics prove that American Pit Bull Terriers have better temperaments than almost any other breed.

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pittypat
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posted 01-22-2003 04:57 PM           Edit/Delete Message
I'm very sorry your dog was attacked. Pit bull owners should not let their dogs play with other dogs.

They are genetically predisposed for dog aggression, which, by the way, has nothing to do with human aggression.

My pit bull is sweet and wonderful with all people, and most other animals, but I wouldn't let her play with dogs, because anything (toy, bone, treat) can start a fight. Even if the pit bull does not start the fight, he will surely finish it.

People who own pit bulls and think they only show dog aggression if they "aren't raised right" are being irresponsible and ignorant.

The urge to fight in pit bulls is similiar to the urge to pull in huskies, or the urge to track in Bassetts - and cannot be trained or loved out of them.

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Pauline
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Posts: 134
From: NC -USA
Registered: Jan 2003

posted 01-23-2003 01:47 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for Pauline     Edit/Delete Message
I've never owned a Pitt. I have neighbors who have 2 brothers, each has a yard of their own across from the other, and they can't stand each other. Yet, they are loving to me when they walk by and interact. I bet close in-breeding has a lot to do with the behavior, as well as of another line that has certain tendencies. I would however be insecure with 2 dogs that have killed a pup, they probably never should have come in contact sporatically as it was, and loose, as they were older, and PECKING order is the thing in any animal herd. An established pecking order from seeing and being with each other on a regular 24/7 basis. It is the heirachy/dominance issue. Lots of things to consider here. Not just one issue I think. And I am sorry for your loss of your little guy....you had no idea really just what would occur. God bless.

[This message has been edited by Pauline (edited 01-23-2003).]

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PITBULL_PRINCESS1979
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From:LOUISIANA,USA
Registered: Dec 2002

posted 01-24-2003 03:16 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for PITBULL_PRINCESS1979     Edit/Delete Message
PITTYPAT,
I AGREE WITH ALOT OF THINGS YOU HAVE SAID..EXCEPT ONE THING.I FEEL YOU ARE WRONG ABOUT NOT LETTING PITS PLAY WITH OTHER DOGS..YES,PITS ARE DOG AGGRESSIVE,BUT IF YOUR DOG HAS THE PROPER TRAINNING AND SOCIAL SKILLS THEY ARE LESS LIKLY TO ATTACK.ALL OF MY PITS START THEIR TRAINNING AT 4 WEEKS.I START THEM OFF IN A PUPPY PLAY GROUP SO THEY WILL KNOW HOW TO ENTERACT WITH OTHER DOGS.

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shmoopie
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From:Vancouver, BC
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posted 01-30-2003 03:12 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for shmoopie     Edit/Delete Message
Hi
I am a Pit Bull (APBT) owner and have to say that even though those APBT's attacked your dog..the only one to blame is the person who owns them. This person should know about the breed and understand that your situation was just a matter of time before it took place.

Dogs that attck other dogs should not be put down. These dogs can and do live very happy lives with owners who understand and cope with the dogs "issues".

A dog that attacks humans SHOULD DEFINATLEY be put down.

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PITBULL_PRINCESS1979
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From:LOUISIANA,USA
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posted 01-30-2003 04:43 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for PITBULL_PRINCESS1979     Edit/Delete Message
I have to disagree with you on that one.About a dog the attacks humans.No dog should be put down for any reason except for illness.There are reasonsable people (like myself) that will take these dogs and give them what they need.There is always a reason why a dog attacks.You may not know the reason but there is always one.

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shmoopie
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posted 01-30-2003 04:51 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for shmoopie     Edit/Delete Message
Well hello pit princess (cute name)

I agree with you that there is always a reason why a dog has an aggression problem wether it's genetics or a un-knowing owner, but I think once a dog shows aggression towards a human, this is not acceptable.

One situation recently here in Vancouver was a 14 year old girl being attacked by 2 rot/mastif cross dogs. These dogs had never shown aggression before but almost killed this poor girl. These dogs were destroyed and even though it is the owners faut, the dogs needed to be destroyed for this girl to recover emotionaly and feel safe in her neighborhood. Aggression in dogs is a very tricky subject and touches and flames up emotions in people, but we have to remember these are just dogs.

I strongly believe that a dog that attacks a person should be destroyed. If you don't I think you need to take a step back and thinks who's more important...the dog? or the human?

I say the human...fur sure.

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PITBULL_PRINCESS1979
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From:LOUISIANA,USA
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posted 01-30-2003 05:56 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for PITBULL_PRINCESS1979     Edit/Delete Message
I disagree..I have looked at it from all points..My heart does got out to anyone that has been attacked and I do hate that it happens.A dog that attacks can be handled with the right owner and supervision..When it comes to picking humans over dogs..I am for the dogs..We as humans have to stand up for the rights of dog because their are unable to do it themselves.
The truth of it is...I trust dogs over humans...Most (not all) dogs show a sign of aggression before they attack..Humans don't..

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shmoopie
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posted 01-31-2003 11:47 AM     Click Here to See the Profile for shmoopie     Edit/Delete Message
I have to agree with you on that. I don't trust many humans either, but at the same time....attacking a human is not acceptable.
I think if a dog goes to the extent of trying to kill a human...this dog should be destroyed. If a dog nips at a person and created a small wound....this can be dealt with and managed...probably positive enforcement training would work adjust the dog to people.

Aggression is such a tricky thing to deal with in dogs. Some dogs attack out of fear others attack because of domianance and other s attack because of their prey drive. I have an aggressive dog and I take it very seriously. I understand his problem, have studied it, and manage my problem every single day.

A friend of mine had a cockerspaniel female. This dog hated feet....small dog big complex about being stepped on. They owned this dog for 15 years until her aggression became so out of control. They took her to the vet and had every single possible test done to see if it was a medical condition, they took her to a behaviorist...that didn't help...they took the dog to a trainer and tried to do positive enforcment...that didn't work . The end result was the dog attacking it's owner and being put down. In most cases an aggression problem can be managed, but it takes someone with a passion for dogs to take on that task. Most people will look at the problem and say...what...give the dog to someone else, and that is what happens to most aggressive dogs, then put down because nobody is willing to take on such an enormous task.

I don't like aggression but I have done my reaserch and because I live with an aggressive dog I have a passion to "cure" him...even though I know it's a management issue now. I take it very seriously.

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PITBULL_PRINCESS1979
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From:LOUISIANA,USA
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posted 01-31-2003 01:11 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for PITBULL_PRINCESS1979     Edit/Delete Message
I agree with you on everything you said ecept putting down a dog.I respect you very much for taking the time to deal with you dogs aggression.It takes a special person to do that ...Keep up the good work

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shmoopie
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From:Vancouver, BC
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posted 01-31-2003 06:58 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for shmoopie     Edit/Delete Message
Thanks Pit Princess.

I respect you for taking the time out to help those who don't know any better get a clearer image of the APBT breed.

Cheers

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Pitbullmom
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posted 04-12-2003 01:15 AM           Edit/Delete Message
I am an owner of people and have een raised with them all my life. They are the most gentle loving animals and you know what I have 6 kids. They lvoe my children and even sleep with them. They stay around my children. Have you read about American Staffordhsire Terriers and see what is said about them and their nature. All pit bulls are loving. I have had red nose pitts and also american pit bull terriers. They have never gave me problems. They watch my kids like hawks. When one of the children is hurt and crying my dogs will run over to check on them..then come and get me. So they are very good with children. Locking dogs up and putting mouth guards all the time, not ;etting them see people is what make them mean. So if you do not know the breed please do not put it down, because all dogs attack especially when they feel threatened.

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Pitbullmom
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posted 04-12-2003 01:19 AM           Edit/Delete Message
I meant to say I am an owner of pitbulls....lol not people...Sorry

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fluff N poofed
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posted 04-12-2003 10:05 AM           Edit/Delete Message
You said"YES!! Pit bulls are by nature a dangerous dog. They are bred for fighting, and I believe they should all be put to sleep"


The ignorance of the public amazes more and more every day. Did you know, according to dog bite statistics in 2000, that the number one biting dog was a labrador retriever. The dogs that caused the most damage to children were toy breeds, and most of that was facial damage.

I am sorry...but the "solution" is not to destroy a breed that you do not understand or have a respect for. If you truly think that then you might as well line up every dog in the world and kill them all for being potential biters.

Guarding/Sparing breeds are bred to be dog agressive. I think this incendect is simply a tragendy that is based on the ignorance of the dog owners involved. And I am not saying that to be cruel, simply truthful. Any responsible pit bull owner would never let their dogs out of their control.
There are simply some breeds, that if you choose to own them, you cannot let them have the leaway that others can enjoy. They take on a greater responsibility. If you are unable to accept that, then don't buy that breed.

Back in the 1920s, I think, the collie was considered and viewed as an unpredictable biting dog. Gee tell that to lassie
The pit bull is not a dangerous dog, it is the ignorance of the public and those who choose to own them that are dangerous. Do I personally like pit bulls for myself? No, but I will not label a dog because it was bred for a specific temperament and job.

I do feel that these dogs need to be euthinized. They have gone to far, and are obviously owned by some one who does not need to own them. Rehoming them at *this* point is too much of a liability for any rescue group. I do feel that "killing" is also not what they should have the desire to do..under *TODAYS* standards for the breed. Any dog that ruthlessly kill, be it a lab, golden, dalmatian, or a pitt bull, should be euthinized.

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goob
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Registered: Mar 2003

posted 04-12-2003 12:34 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for goob     Edit/Delete Message
Pitbullmom, the point is that pit bulls should not feel threatened by the things some of them are attacking for. Example: Kids teased dog over the fence a couple times, dog got out and hurt kid.... nope, the kid shouldn't have been teasing the dog, but the pit bull should have been stable enough that it could tolerate a little teasing from a kid without attacking them (of course the owner should have been smart enough to not leave their dog outside for kids to tease and the dog to get out). One more thing, "red nose pitts" are no different than American Pit Bull Terriers, they ARE American Pit bull Terriers (well, maybe not APBTs if they don't have papers, but they're still "pit bulls"). The only thing that differentiates(sp?) them from their "black nosed" counterparts is that they have a different color skin pigment, leading to all their skin (including nose and eyerims) being liver/red in color. Same thing with "bluenosed" pit bulls. Sorry to be so picky, but that's something that bothers me, it seems like everyone where I live wants to classify pit bulls by their color, and it irritates me to no end

[This message has been edited by goob (edited 04-12-2003).]

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jlong
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From:Clintwood, Va, USA
Registered: Apr 2003

posted 04-13-2003 01:19 AM     Click Here to See the Profile for jlong     Edit/Delete Message
Sorry to hear about your rott pup.
I dont think that a dog should be put to sleep for attacking another dog. Those things happen all the time with all types of dog not just pits. BUT I also think it is absolutly stupid to think that a pitbull is not a naturally aggresive dog. Dont get me wrong I like a pit. I think they are one of the best lookin animals out there BUT to all you pit lovers out there. You say a pit is aggresive and they are fun and family dogs. WELL HERE YOU GO Fatal Dog Attacks

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

News from Pediatrics...
June 28, 1996
Fatal Dog Attacks

ATLANTA & WASHINGTON--Dog bite injuries can lead to serious infections (such as tetanus and rabies), disability, deformity, and occasionally death. Most of these injuries are preventable.

The National Center for Injury Prevention and Control, the Center for Disease Control and Prevention, and the Humane Society of the United States recently updated data on fatal dog bites for the period 1989 to 1994.

In the 6-year study published in the medical journal PEDIATRICS (Vol.97 No. 6, 891-5), Jeffrey J. Sacks, M.D. and associates reported the finding of 109 bite-related fatalities. They found that 57% of the deaths were in children under 10 years of age. 22% of the deaths involved an unrestrained dog OFF the owner's property. 18% of the deaths involved a restrained dog ON the owner's property, and 59% of the deaths involved an unrestrained dog ON the owner's property.

The researchers also found that 10% of the dog bite attacks involved sleeping infants.

The most commonly reported dog breeds involved were pit bulls (24 deaths), followed by rottweilers (16 deaths), and German shepherds (10 deaths). The authors point out that many breeds, however, are involved in the problem.

If you do not believe me when I say this is true then here http://www.idir.net/~wolf2dog/FatalDogAttacks.htm

But to answer your question no the dogs should not be killed. Dogs are always goin to fight each other. It is there nature to do that it just &!$$@$ me off to see people say pits are great and perfect just because thats what they breed.

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goob
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posted 04-13-2003 02:39 AM     Click Here to See the Profile for goob     Edit/Delete Message
Many pit bulls are naturally dog aggressive... they should NEVER be human aggressive.
Nice job quoting those stats... you forgot to mention though that even the CDC states that there is no proof that any one breed of dog is more dangerous than others... it's on the same page as the bites-by-breed (I'd copy it here, but don't have the program to open the list anymore). You also forgot to mention that the stats are derived from information collected from various hospitals, animal control centers, and media sources.... hmmm.... all those sources REEEAALLY know a lot about identifying dog breeds . Or how about how they throw at least five breeds (APBTs, AmStaffs, SBTs, Bull Terriers, ABs, just to name the most common dogs to be labeled "pit bulls"), plus any mixes of those breeds, or dogs that look like they could be mixes of those breeds, into one group and label them "pit bulls"? Your "proof" isn't looking so good now, huh? And if pit bulls are "naturally" aggressive, then how do you explain the hundreds of thousands of pit bulls that aren't (never have been, and won't be) aggressive towards people. If that's how they're supposed to be, then pit bull owners must have a real low success rate And my pit bull IS great AND perfect She's also fixed, no breeding for us...

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jlong
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From:Clintwood, Va, USA
Registered: Apr 2003

posted 04-13-2003 05:22 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for jlong     Edit/Delete Message
Go ahead and defend them just because you own them but you are full of it as a Christmas bird. " they are news reporters so that means they know nothing about dogs"
YEAH RIGHT. GIVE ME A BREAK!!!!!!!!!

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goob
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posted 04-13-2003 11:35 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for goob     Edit/Delete Message
Never said that, did I? But I suppose it's not far from the truth... the media loves to capitalize on other peoples' misery, without ever finding any factual information on what they're reporting about.... that's what it's all about I'd defend ANY breed against someone who was spreading their OPINIONS as fact with no credible sources to back it up.

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jlong
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From:Clintwood, Va, USA
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posted 04-14-2003 12:13 AM     Click Here to See the Profile for jlong     Edit/Delete Message
Who are you to say they had no facts to back it up?? How do you know they didnt??

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shmoopie
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From:Vancouver, BC
Registered: Jan 2003

posted 04-14-2003 12:47 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for shmoopie     Edit/Delete Message
jlong,
what is your point? You say you like them then show statistics to prove how other dogs are involved in dog attacks.

The reason the pit bull is causing havoc in society today is because the majority of the public is damn ignorant to the breed and its history.

This is not a dog for everyone and should not be allowed to be bred by back yard breeders.

The majority of people who want to own these dogs get them because the media has portrayed them to be visious and mean; therefore, the majority of people who will want them will be thugs and drug dealers looking to protect their stash or whatever they need protected. The majority of these dogs suffer trumendously.....any breed put in a bad situation is going to be aggressive. Statistics just pove ALL DOGS BITE and which dogs are favoured by drug dealers and made aggressive.

I started working at a shelter to help re home Pit Bulls...let me tell you how awsome these dogs are. They are friendly, loyal, Super Intelligent and wana be loved so badly, but nobody is willing to adopt them because the media has scared everyone silly.
Another thing is that these dogs need to be trained and given rules. Tell me how many dogs you see out there that actually listen to their owners and have been atleast obedience trained...I say I see 1 in every 100 dogs. Not many people take the time to realize how much time and effort a dog takes, especially an intelligent dog that must have it.

It makes me mad, you look at statistics...why don't you go and look at a pit bull instead of some numbers on a sheet that means NOTHING.

Reality is Reality...go and see a pit bull instead of just reading what your fed.

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PITBULL_PRINCESS1979
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From:LOUISIANA,USA
Registered: Dec 2002

posted 04-14-2003 01:18 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for PITBULL_PRINCESS1979     Edit/Delete Message
I am gonna put it like this,You can show me all the statistic you want,they will not change my mind.NO!!!Pitbulls should not be put down if they bite.There is always a reason for a dog to bite.Everyone here should know that Pitbulls are born dog aggressive not human aggressive.If a pitbull shows human agression there is a reason behind it.If it is from being mistreated,teased,starved,or anything else..there is a reason.
A dog is as only as smart as their owner...so there is your main reason for any dog bites.We may not always know why a dog bites,but there is always a reason.
I am not trying to be rude,but NO dog deserves to die for only doing what it knows.
I am sorry if this post pisses off some of you,but that is the way I feel.

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fluff/poof
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posted 04-14-2003 04:05 PM           Edit/Delete Message
Pittbull princess you are living in a fairy tale world. There is NOT always a reason for why dogs bite. Just as there is NOT always a reason why some one attacks or kills some one else.
Unless you are willing to house, keep, and accept all liabilty for an animal that is a biter, then they need to be euthinized. Giving that animal away is a crime. keeping that animal around can put you in a legal night mare you would not wish on your worst enemy.

ALL dog owners, NO MATTER the breed need to keep their animals under control. Dog owners are loosing their rights every day because of ignorant people and their choices. I am tired of being punished for some one else's stupidity.

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PITBULL_PRINCESS1979
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From:LOUISIANA,USA
Registered: Dec 2002

posted 04-14-2003 04:19 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for PITBULL_PRINCESS1979     Edit/Delete Message
I disagree..There is a reason for everything.There is always a reason why people kill people,even if they are just crazy..that is a reason,or if they are stupid,that is a reason..
You can say all you want that I live in a fairy tale world,but you are wrong..There is always a reason be hide a dog bite.Even if it is just because the dog doesn't like the way you smell or the tone of you voice...I never said that there is always good reasons, but there is a reason.Sorry,I just don't believe in ending an innocent life because the dog bit some one.
I will never believe in killing an animal unless they are very sick or if it is for food.You don't kill just for the fun of it or because it done something wrong.Thats like saying if your dog goes potty on the floor...kill it...(it did something it was not suppost to).
There is no justifying killing an animal for what we consider unexceptible behavior.

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jlong
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From:Clintwood, Va, USA
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posted 04-14-2003 06:58 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for jlong     Edit/Delete Message
shmoopie

KISS MY A**!!!!!!!!
I LIKE PITS AS MUCH AS THE NEXT GUY I JUST WANT PEOPLE TO SEE BOTH SIDES OF THEM!!!!

[This message has been edited by Auspetian (edited 04-21-2003).]

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goob
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posted 04-15-2003 12:19 AM     Click Here to See the Profile for goob     Edit/Delete Message
jlong, until you can come up with a credible source to support your "facts", I'll stand by my earlier claim about your opinion

As for my viewpoint on killing dogs that bite... I think it's one of those "have to see the forest for the trees" (I think that's how that saying goes?) things... it's not fair to the breed or the individual dogs to waste resources on a human aggressive dog when there are so many stable, human friendly dogs out there. There is no room in this word for dogs that bite, reason or not. Our rights as dog owners are slowly being legislated away, and dog attacks are just fueling those who are writing the "rules" that will take away my right to own the breed I love. It's even worse in the pit bulls' case, because they aren't SUPPOSED to be that way... they aren't SUPPOSED to bite people, no matter what. And if their owners are responsible enough to let their human aggressive pit bull bite one person, what's to say it won't happen again? Nothing.

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shmoopie
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From:Vancouver, BC
Registered: Jan 2003

posted 04-16-2003 12:14 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for shmoopie     Edit/Delete Message
jlong,
So if you love the breed as much as the next guy why are you in here discussing it in the manner you are?If you wanted to discuss both sides of the story and since you have 4 years of college behind you, I would think you could get your point across a little more clearly.

I was not rude to you, can you please calm down and discuss this like an adult....you should have 4 years of college behind you, but the way you write...I THINK NOT

There is no need to be as rude as you are. Nobody has writen back to you and spoken to you in any manner you have. I find you the rudest I have come across yet!

But,please this is a free country and we all have the right to our own opinion so go ahead and express your twisted ways...the real educated people here will help to better educate you.

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Schutznut
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From:USA
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posted 04-20-2003 12:08 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for Schutznut     Edit/Delete Message
It makes me crazy when people say "Ohhhh, but he was never mistreated! Howww could he have bitten someone/attacked another dog/run away/eaten the couch, etc..."

To deny proper training to ANY dog of ANY breed is to invite trouble for that dog and IMO is definitely a form of MISTREATMENT.

If the PBT's involved in the OP had been trained to "OUT" or "LEAVE IT" at the owners command, your pup would be alive today.

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