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Author Topic:   Signs of Dying Fish?
sukiisukii
New Member

Posts: 4
From:Brooklyn, New York, USA
Registered: Mar 2004

posted 03-02-2004 08:18 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for sukiisukii     Edit/Delete Message
Hello Everyone

I am new to the forum, and have to say that this is a great online community.

I have just started a new aqarium on Sunday night. The tank is a ten gallon and I do not have the best filter, it is the one that came in the beginners package (a box with carbon and polyester). I will be investing in a better filter over the weekend. I also have a water heater set at 75-76 degrees.

I have a few questions. I filled the tank on Saturday and waited 24 hours before putting fish in the tank. Before adding the fish, I put in the following solutions "Aqua Plus - Tap Water Conditioner" and "Cycle".

The water was rather clear the first day but I realized that yesterday (Monday) that the water all of a sudden became really cloudy. Yikes! I DON'T KNOW WHAT TO DO! And I panicked. Also 2 of my three 1" Goldfishes have signs of Ick on them. Help!

Therefore today (Tuesday) I went to PetCo and purchased "Jungle" brand medicine called "Ick Clear" for the ick problem, also I bought a solution called "Sparkling Clear" to clear up the water. Also I changed 1/4 of the water and readded 1/4 the dosage of the "Aqua Plus" and "Cycle" solutions into the tank.

And I am still feeling very worried about my fish and did some research and added 1 tablespoon of diluted noniodized salt into the tank.

I think I might have panicked too much and added too many things... I dont know.

The goldfish with the most ick signs is acting a little agressive, swimming really fast and headbutting the other fishes. It also likes to swim vertically to the gravel sucking at the gravel then it will do a 360 in the water.

And some of the fishes are swimming really erratically like they are suffering a seizure. They are all fairly active and swim at all levels of the tank. But I still want to know whether there is something wrong with them so I can do something about it.

I don't want to be a murderer! But I know that a lot of first time fish owners have a few first dead fishes. How long is the break in period, until I can be sure that all my fishes will live. I am afraid to wake up to dead fishes.

Hopefully someone will be able to enlighten me.

Thanks so much in advance.

Best,

sukiisukii

------------------
I'm a new fish owner. YaY!

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t_chelle16
Member

Posts: 501
From:Missouri
Registered: Feb 2004

posted 03-02-2004 09:28 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for t_chelle16     Edit/Delete Message
Okay, you have a few problems going on.

First of all, the tank wasn't properly cycled. I know you added "Cycle" but that stuff is junk. It is not refrigerated so by the time you bought it, all the beneficial bacteria was dead. So as a result, your tank is currently trying to cycle with the fish in it (the cloudiness is bacteria bloom and is normal when a tank is cycling). The cycling process is very bad for the fish because during it, the ammonia and nitrIte levels will get very high and poison your fish (possibly why they are acting strange).

You have 3 choices:
#1 - return the fish and do a proper fishless cycle. All the info you need for this is HERE.
#2 - see if you can find a product called Biospira. It is the only "bacteria in a bottle" product that actually works because it is refrigerated. Personally, I've never used it before, but it is supposed to instantly cycle your tank.

#3 - keep doing massive, frequent water changes and try to keep the ammonia and nitrIte levels as close to 0 as you can (you will need test kits for this).

Now for the ich. The amount of salt you added isn't really enough to do anything. For the ich, I would suggest raising the temperature to around 84* and continuing with the Ich Clear. If you have an airstone, it would be a good idea to add that as well since the amount of dissolved oxygen decreases as temperature increases.

Lastly, that tank is going to be too small for those 3 goldfish. If they're fancy goldfish (ball shaped) they're going to get around 9" long and will need about 15 - 20 gallons/fish. If they're regular goldfish (long bodies) they're going to get over 18" long and really aren't suited for most home aquariums.

Also, it also sounds like your filtration isn't nearly enough. With hang-on-back filters you need something that has a turnover rating of at least 10x the volume of your tank (so for a 10 gallon, you would need at least 100 gallons/hour). If you get a canister (not practical for a 10 gallon) or wet/dry filter, you will only need 3x - 5x.

A couple other things: You only need to use the Aqua Plus when you add new water. It's only purpose is to remove chlorine from tap water. The Sparkling Clear isn't going to do anything for the cloudiness because it's bacteria bloom. And in general, a properly cycled tank that has adequate filtration, frequent water changes, and not overfed shouldn't be cloudy so products like that are really unnecessary.

-Chelle

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kc5gvn

Moderator

Posts: 806
From:
Registered: Jan 2003

posted 03-02-2004 10:53 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for kc5gvn     Edit/Delete Message
Hi sukiisukii, 24 hours on a new tank is not enough time to develop bacterial bloom, even by adding some bad Cycle. Simple ammonia and nitrite tests will prove this. The white cloudiness you are seeing is fragements of your fishes slime coating from PH burn. The eratic swimming, darting across the tank and diving, are signs of PH shock caused from aclimating the fish too quickly. The Sparkling Clear will help to clear up the cloudiness, but it will take a few days. As a prophalaxis I run 1 tablespoon of salt for 10 gallons. With an active case of Ich you can increase it to 1 tablespoon per 5 gallons. Although I prefer to use Maracide made by Mardel for Ich, the Ick Clear should work. The slime particles in the water will make it difficult enough for the fish to get oxygen so I wouldn't raise the temperature more than 80 - 82 degrees. The higher the tank temperature the less oxygen saturation there is in the water. Raising it to 80 degrees is enough to speed up the incubation period for the Ich. Novaqua will help buffer the PH, but at this point will have limited effect. I don't recommend water changes unless you start developing ammonia and nitrites in the tank. If you don't have the test kits take a water sample to your local pet shop. Explain the problem and ask them to test it for you.

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katanas_edge
Member

Posts: 266
From:Canada
Registered: Sep 2003

posted 03-03-2004 07:15 AM     Click Here to See the Profile for katanas_edge     Edit/Delete Message
If you haven't got a test kit yet, you should pick one up for ammonia, nitrite and nitrates.

Ammonia(fish waste) becomes more toxic as PH and temperature rise. If you're reading 0 ammonia it should be OK to raise the temp. for ick. It's almost certain that you will see a spike in ammonia followed by a spike in nitrite. When these begin to accumulate you will have to do water changes to keep levels down. This may lengthen the time it takes to cycle, but will let your fish live. Do to the stress of ick, ammonia and adjustment to new water parameters you should make sure that there is plenty of oxygen (the ammonia and nitrite consuming bacteria will be competing for this too.) You should look into a bubble wall or airstone.

Also, don't change your filter in the middle of a cycle - you remove all of the bacteria that havew built up to date. If you get a new filter, put it on the tank in addition to the old one. Let it run for a few weeks and then take the old one off. This will give it time to grow a healthy colony of bacteria. You can kickstart the process by rubbing some of the media (probably a sponge) from the new filter and the old filter together to get some of the slime, etc. on the new sponge. No, they're not the fanciest filters, but in a properly stocked and cared for tank they can do quite nicely. When I was a kid I remember my parents had a 35 gallon with two submersed box sponge filters. Your hang on back is likely better than that.

Lastly, your tank is overstocked and too warm. Goldfish are cold water fish that produce a lot of waste. It's OK to warm the tank while treating for disease, but on a permanent basis 75 degrees is too warm. Regular goldfish do well between 40-68 degrees while the fancier varieties like it a little warmer, between 45-74. Room temperature is more than adequate, so I'd take that heater out. Also, you are definitely going to need a much larger tank for those fish. If you have the money, get them a bigger tank and use your 10 gallon for tetras, a betta or some other suitably small fish.

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sukiisukii
New Member

Posts: 4
From:Brooklyn, New York, USA
Registered: Mar 2004

posted 03-03-2004 08:53 AM     Click Here to See the Profile for sukiisukii     Edit/Delete Message
Thank everyone for all your help. I am going to go to PetCo again today and buy a few test kits and a better filter.

Is there a recommended one for a 10 gallon?

As for getting a bigger tank, I will sooner or later invest in one, but for now I am more concerned for the life of my goldfishes.

I will change 1/4 of the water everynight until things get straightened out with my fishes.

Let me know if there are more things I should be on the look out for.

Thanks again for all your help.

Best,

sukii

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