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Fish and Aquarium Oscar question
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Author | Topic: Oscar question |
jason Member Posts: 69 |
posted 02-07-2004 08:34 PM
Can a oscar go in with a red belly piranha. In a 400g tank IP: Logged |
t_chelle16 Member Posts: 501 |
posted 02-07-2004 09:31 PM
I wouldn't try it. -Chelle IP: Logged |
JustSomeGuy Member Posts: 65 |
posted 02-08-2004 09:55 AM
400 Gallon tank, and just those two fish.....it would probally work. But, that P is a schooling fish to begin with, so why no have a few of them? IP: Logged |
red devil 2 Member Posts: 200 |
posted 02-08-2004 10:03 AM
if its a red bellid parahna and if the oscar is the same size or bigger and if the tank has a lot of space which it does it would probley be fine IP: Logged |
jason Member Posts: 69 |
posted 02-08-2004 10:45 AM
what else could go with an oscar and a piranha. IP: Logged |
red devil 2 Member Posts: 200 |
posted 02-08-2004 10:49 AM
i would try a magunese or a pike IP: Logged |
cichlids small Jaws Member Posts: 255 |
posted 02-08-2004 10:51 AM
in the natinal geographic they say oscars can coexist with the perahna because perahnas atack from the tail up and sinse the oscars have tail "eye" spots it confuses the perahna but idonno hee hee you could always get get some silver dallers and SAY their perahnas hee hee they can go with oscars IP: Logged |
jason Member Posts: 69 |
posted 02-08-2004 11:26 AM
red devil 2 What do magunese and pike look like and how much do they cost. IP: Logged |
red devil 2 Member Posts: 200 |
posted 02-08-2004 11:34 AM
a pike gets very long about 20 inches and just like an arowana will eat anything it can fit in its mouth theres all diffrent types for brakish and fresh they are cichlids and are about 10 to 30 dollars a maganuse gets very big and vicious with sevral big black dots on its sides can be grayish there about 20 bucks im suprised your not familiare with them they are very popular on long island i would post pics if i knew how IP: Logged |
red devil 2 Member Posts: 200 |
posted 02-08-2004 11:39 AM
Pike Cichlids are a group of South American fishes of the genus Crenicichla. They inhabit the freshwaters lakes, streams, rivers and pools of most of the Amazonian rivers, but there are many species found in Colombian, Venezuelan and Guyanan waters to the north of the Amazon. To the south, there are representatives of the genus all the way down to coastal regions of central Argentina. Basically, they are found east of the Andes, from the island of Trinidad in the north to the area around the Argentinian Rio Negro just north of Patagonia.It was so much easier when I had just a couple of tanks with easy cichlids that would inhale anything tossed in the tank. Those days are gone. I started encountering fish with culinary attitudes a few years ago when I purchased some wild caught Apistogramma agassizi. Then came a few wild, picky Petenia splendida. About a year or so later, I collected some Hemichromis fasciatus in the Niger Delta. None of these species wanted anything to do with pelletized dry foods. Don t get me wrong, not all wild fish are this way I ve had wild caught fish eat pellets from my fingers three days after capture. PIKE CICHLIDS This aquaristic problem is more common with species that are specialized. A certain critter they eat in the wild constitutes almost all their dietary intake and they eat little else, may be because there is nothing else to eat or perhaps they are much better than other fish at devouring that specific little critter. Toss them a pellet and it doesn't elicit a feeding response because pellets don't possess the necessary characteristics that make these fish eat or they simply don't like the taste of pellets. We all know that fish prefer to eat moving foods; and that is what I took advantage of when I was weaning a few Geophagus sp. (they are basically brasiliensoids with a different shaped head) from baby brine and grindal worms. I tossed few Tetrabits into their little tank and with the aid of a plastic eyedropper, squirted the sunken granular food and made the food swim around. The fish would attack it when the pellets were moving but once the food sunk to the bottom, they resumed begging me for additional mobile food. I then completely stopped feeding them live foods and stayed with squirted Tetrabits for a week. After a day of fasting and the temperature at 83 F, the fish half-heartedly nibbled at some sunken pellets. One more week of that and they were happily inhaling pellets. I don't follow fads and I didn't mean to jump on the Pike Cichlid bandwagon, but I've always wanted to keep these fish but never had the room or money in graduate school. So finally, when I got out of college and I got a fish room and a job, I decided to start keeping Crenicichla sp. Yesiree, I was going to get into them in a big way and then wouldn't you know it, Wayne Leibel officially starts the Pike Cichlid craze with a Pike Cichlid issue of the Buntbarsche Bulletin (Journal of the American Cichlid Association). Now the guys at the pet store group me with the reef people for being faddish. Anyway, I obtained some Crenicichla (Batrachops) semifasciata, C. compressiceps, C. sp. bellyslider (incorrectly sold as C. sedentaria) and C. frenata Trinidad and a lone specimen of C. dorsocellata - five very different Pikes. None of them liked pellets in the beginning. I keep most of my Pikes with Cichlasomines because they don't seem to recognize each other as competitors for food or spawning sites. My Cichlasomines included Cichlasoma tetracanthus, C regani, C. alfari, C. hartwegi, C. loisellei, C. steindachneri, C. longimanus and C. rostratum. I don't mix Pikes. If I were forced to, I'd probably find a way to keep different groups together. i.e., a saxatilis-group member with a lugubris-group type or a Batrachops -type with a lugubris-type. My Crenicichla semifasciata went a month without eating pellets and a couple of the smaller ones wasted away due to my determination not to feed them anything that was live. Cruel? Probably. Acceptable? Maybe. Effective? Certainly. Some hobbyists feed their fish live foods occasionally to keep them alive until (if ever) they gradually learn to eat pellets. All my fish are prewarned when they enter my tank: eat pellets or wait a couple of days between meals. IP: Logged |
red devil 2 Member Posts: 200 |
posted 02-08-2004 11:39 AM
kinda long sorry hehehe IP: Logged |
red devil 2 Member Posts: 200 |
posted 02-08-2004 11:42 AM
Addendum 1999: it has been over 6 years since I wrote this article and my staunch ways have been amended - now I feed my pikes a heck of a lot of frozen krill, live gold fish as well as pellets. I salt-dip the gold fish before feeding it to the pikes. A tablespoon of salt to half a liter of water, which is salty enough to make the gold fish float - hopefully this kills most of the bacteria on the feeder fish.) I am a bit more lenient with species I know nothing about, in which case, I feed frozen brine shrimp and krill. Unfortunately for my fish, I am allergic to frozen bloodworms. It has been my experience that if you feed Pikes goldfish to keep them alive while you are waiting to convert them to pellets, they take a LONG time to come around to pellets. Is it a good idea to feed them gold fish? It is not without danger, as they can obviously bring in diseases. Still, I think this helps condition the fish for breeding. Eventually they all start eating pellets. A C. sp. Bocon that I had fed exclusively live and frozen foods to for over a year, one day began snatching pellets being fed to the other cichlids in its tank. Housing Pikes with Cichlasomines, allows the Pikes to watch and learn. In soaring birds of prey, the zillions of Turkey and Black vultures in Florida, for example, the descent of one bird tells another bird that the descender has spotted food. I've observed this behavior in Characins and I see no reason why cichlids can t use this mode of prey detection. The point is: keep the Pikes with pellet-eating fish. The older the fish, the longer it takes to convert to pellets. A good friend, Darin Gasperson, has had moderate success at getting his Cichla ocellaris to eat pellets. My experience has been that juveniles of the lugubris-group are a little easier to convert to pellets than member of the saxatilis-group. If only I could keep the lugubris-types from getting so huge their temperament seems much more agreeable than those of the saxatilis-types. I've also noticed that specimens low in the pecking order learn to eat pellets sooner than the gold medallist intramural thugger. Why? I don't know for certain but does the thugee feel the need to eat anything to hang on to dear life? Have any of you observed this? With a combination of patience, frozen foods, high temperatures and the addition of Cichlasomines, I've managed to convert ALL of my Pikes on to pellets. I actually got my Crenicichla semifasciata to eat frozen peas! Of course, I culture a lot of live foods like earthworms, daphnia etc. and the Pikes get these live foods only after they learn to eat pellets. This way, if the live food cultures ever die or if my neighbor doesn't like handling earthworms while I'm traveling, the fish can always eat pellets. Modern pellets like Doromin are quite nutritious and can add bulk to the fish and can even condition some Pikes to spawn. The description of the physiology and appearance of a species in question are powerful tools in identification as well. Once you get comfortable with the terminology used in technical literature, you will be able to break down the fish into a set of unique physical traits. The following are descriptions of a few physical characteristics that may help you: Suborbital marking: This refers to the marking immediately under the eye. Most Crenicichla species groups have suborbital marking unique to them, of course, with a few exceptions. These markings are usually triangular or striped and some species do not have any. The triangular markings are common in the saxatilis group. C. semicincta from Peru of the saxatilis group is an exception, it has a sub orbital stripe. Most Froghead Pikes of the reticulata group and dwarf pikes of the wallaci group do not sport suborbital markings. The old lepidota group sensu Kullander and the coastal species of the lacustris group of Eastern Brazil, have sub orbital stripes. It must be mentioned that these species groupings are not very distinct and the generalizing based on their occasionally overlapping boundaries should not be followed rigidly. However, discussing it, rather than not, is mildly educational. Postorbital marking : This refers to the marking between the eye and the operculum or the gill cover. Some species like C. lugubris have a black blotch there. C. proteus have a simple horizontal black line there and female C. frenata from Trinidad have a black line sandwiched by two whitish lines. Humeral blotch: This is the dark blotch immediately behind (posterior) and slightly above the operculum. It is absent in the reticulata, lacustris and wallaci groups. It is prominent in the lugubris and saxatilis groups. These blotches may vary in size and may or may not be ocellated (surrounded by a light colored ring.) The position of the humeral blotch relative to the lateral line is an important identification tool. The lateral line cuts through the middle of the humeral blotch in some species and in others the blotch is clearly beneath the lateral line. Dorsal ocelli: This refers to the dark or black spots/blotches on the dorsal fins of the females of some species. This trait is particularly evident in some C. regani forms, C. notophthalmus, females of some lacustris and some reticulata group members. Like the humeral blotch, these spots may or may not be ocellated. Submarginal band: This trait is mentioned in reference to the light colored (often white) line just below the outer edge of the dorsal fin in females. This band is usually broad and red in females of the reticulata group. Usually lacking in some dwarf species and the lacustris group. Caudal ocelli: Like the dorsal ocelli and the humeral blotch, the caudal ocelli is a “false eye” that many South American cichlids use as a deterrent against small fin-nipping Piranhas that are less likely to attack the region around the eye of the prey. This spot is located at the base of the tail. Again, it varies in shape, size and degree of ocellation. Fin ray counts (meristics): This ichthyological tool is also a good identification tactic. All cichlids have a range of hard and soft fin rays. I have used the dorsal fin rays to narrow down some species identification. With live aquarium specimens, this is difficult but it is possible with a crisp and clearly lit photograph. Netting the fish our and actually counting the rays is slightly more traumatic and stressful to your charges. The numbers may then be compared to published figures. Extension of Maxilla under the orbit: Pike cichlids, often with their wide gapes, have the ends of their lip fold or corner further back than most cichlids. This extension of the lip goes back as far as just below the eye or sometimes farther. In some species, the corner of the lip does not extend as far back as the eye. This is a species or group specific trait. Placement of nostril relative to the labia: This is the space between the edge of the lip fold and the nostrils. In some species like C. reticulata, this distance is very short. There is a species determined distance between the two points. Longitudinal scale count This is an ichthyological tool, usually used to distinguish between the aforementioned groups of pike cichlids. This is a number, often a range, of scales along the longitudinal length of the fish. Strigata group members have a high number of scales (often around 100) while C. britskii has low figures, about 45. This is not a practical instrument of pike cichlid identification. Morphometrics This is the information derived from the body proportions of the fish, like the height of the fish given as a ratio to the length of the fish. If you find yourself reading some of Kullander’s or Ploeg’s publications, you are likely to run into a few more words that you may not be familiar with. Their papers, especially Kullander’s, become enjoyable if you understand some of the terminology used in describing a species. Holotype: a single specimen of a species used for describing the species. If many specimens are used for the descriptions, a single specimen is usually identified as the holotype. Paratypes: if a holotype is specified in a description based on many specimens, all the fish other than the holotype are paratypes. Syntypes: often in older or in insufficiently detailed descriptions a holotype may not be specified. Worse, it may be “lost” or not stored in a museum. In such cases, similar specimens are set up as syntypes. This process leaves room for errors in the author’s interpretation. Lectotype: if a previously described species is examined at a later date by an ichthyologist, a lectotype may be chosen from among the type series to be used as a defining specimen. Of course, this is by no means a comprehensive list of technical jargon used in pike cichlid nomenclature, but it is hoped that learning this vocabulary will make your next trip to the library a little more productive. If you have read this far without falling asleep, my hat's off to you.
IP: Logged |
red devil 2 Member Posts: 200 |
posted 02-08-2004 11:42 AM
those were soe articles i found its really not as long as it looks IP: Logged |
red devil 2 Member Posts: 200 |
posted 02-08-2004 11:44 AM
Two-Spot Pike Cichlid, Comb Pike Cichlid Size: Temperature: PH: Water Type: Tank Level: Diet: Temperament: Rarity: Breeding: Family: Type: Minimum Tank Size: Numbers: Native Location: IP: Logged |
red devil 2 Member Posts: 200 |
posted 02-08-2004 11:45 AM
The Pike Cichlid, also known as the Two-Spot Pike Cichlid, or the Comb Pike Cichlid, is a large aggressive freshwater fish that is best kept in a large specimen tank. In the wild these fish are solitary and keeping several lepidota together can be unpredictable and may lead to injury, or possibly death. C. lepidota prefers conditioned, neutral water. Regular water changes will keep this fish healthy and in peak condition. Because of its potential size of 14 inches, this fish will need plenty of swimming room. An aquarium of at least 65 gallons is strongly recommended. The Pike Cichlid will actively swim throughout all levels of the tank. This species is readily available through many fish retailers. Breeding lepidota, however, can be challenging. Water and environment need to be carefully established and monitored for success. The Pike Cichlid, Crenicichla lepidota, is native to South America. IP: Logged |
red devil 2 Member Posts: 200 |
posted 02-08-2004 11:45 AM
the last 2 replys were short descriptions if you dont want to waste a half hour reading my other replies IP: Logged |
kc5gvn Moderator Posts: 806 |
posted 02-08-2004 08:16 PM
Hi red devil 2, While we like very informative posts if they are excessively long you will lose your reader before they finish. If it is excessively long please just post a link or cite the book where the information can be found. Thank you. IP: Logged |
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