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Author Topic:   Paper training problem -- HELP!!!
montreal212
New Member

Posts: 5
From:Montreal, PQ Canada
Registered: Mar 2004

posted 03-17-2004 12:24 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for montreal212     Edit/Delete Message
Hi-- we have an eight month old bichon maltese -- we have been doing all we know to paper train him and he's still doing it anywhere he pleases.....any advice???? Please HELP!!!
thank you!!!!

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lanena322
Member

Posts: 69
From:Cidra, Puerto Rico
Registered: Feb 2004

posted 03-17-2004 01:11 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for lanena322     Edit/Delete Message
My Nana is 11 weeks old and has succesfully mastered the art of paper training ;-)

What is your reason for paper training him? I know I started to paper train Nana because she was 4 weeks old when she came to us and too young to hold it.

Hes kind of old to be paper training, especially when he should be lifting his leg soon, if he hasnt already. But what I would recomend is trying to catch him right before he uses the bathroom. Which means he is not to be left unsupervised EVER during this training period. Dogs will usually sniff around for a place to use the bathroom, so try and catch him when he has that I have to go look in his eyes. Then bring him over to the paper and keep him there until he goes. When he does go praise him ALOT.

This is what I did and Nana did great, learned very quickly. Now the problem is getting her to go outside hehe, thats another story

Well I hope this helps some!

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bullylove1
Member

Posts: 173
From:Canada
Registered: Feb 2004

posted 03-17-2004 01:29 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for bullylove1     Edit/Delete Message
Montreal212
That is pretty old for a pup to not be trained yet. Is ther eany underlyign reason? How long have you had him for. He actually probably won't start to lift his leg soon, especaially if he has never seen a male dog do it. That is usually how they learn. My moms lab didn't leif until he was almost 2 yrs old.
You should definately be keeping him in your sight at all times. Any time you see him start to sniff, walk around, sniff, go straight outside.
What kinds of methods have you been using to paper train?
I know Harley hates to go outsid ejust to pee, so I'll usually go out throw the ball around for a couple of minutes and then she'll go. I almost think at this point you should just train him for outside and only have the paper out at night and if you're not home (unles you crate him).
Spend lots of time with him in the yard. Go outside every 30 to 45 minutes. Bring some yummy treats with you and hang out and play in the yard. As soon as he goes to the bathroom treat him right away nad praise him. This will have to be 3-5 seconds after he pees/poos. In the house when he goes on the paper do the same thing.
It could also be that you are not getting the smell out well enough when he does go in the house, just muffle it a bit, so he is re-marking his territory.

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montreal212
New Member

Posts: 5
From:Montreal, PQ Canada
Registered: Mar 2004

posted 03-18-2004 10:03 AM     Click Here to See the Profile for montreal212     Edit/Delete Message
Thank you so much for your replies!!!
We had our puppy for the past 6 months now --- he actually knows how to lift his leg to pee --- and earlier on when he was about 4-5 months, he was doing pretty well in this. We set up a spot for him in the bathroom andeven sprayed the newspaper with "Out". We live in an aprtment building and we want to really train him on paper since it really gets cold here in Montreal.... I think this is more of a behavioral problem becasue as I said he seem to be doing well before --- do you think there's a way to break this bad habit he's develop? I also feel that he tries to hold it and doesn't want to do it when someone is near him.... please -- any advice????
thank you very much!!!!!

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montreal212
New Member

Posts: 5
From:Montreal, PQ Canada
Registered: Mar 2004

posted 03-18-2004 10:10 AM     Click Here to See the Profile for montreal212     Edit/Delete Message
it's me again -- i just wanted to add last Monday our dear puppy turned nine months old!!!!

Could it be also because --- we treat him like a real baby? Maybe we should sound more angry when we scold him????

It's even getting harder to groom him without a fight -- the only thing he really likes is when we give him a bath.

thanks again...

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bullylove1
Member

Posts: 173
From:Canada
Registered: Feb 2004

posted 03-18-2004 12:16 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for bullylove1     Edit/Delete Message
definately do NOT scold him. Dogs can sometimes just become submissive to your voice pitches if you start this. When we first adopted Harley (she was 9 months) if we talked to loud when she was around or moved to fast she would recoil and pee. It was horrible. What I do suggest you do is start obedince classes immediately. This will build a strong bond between you two and show him that he is not boss. It sounds like your dog does not know that you rule the house. Another good thing is to put him on a program called:
Nothing in Life is Free. I will attach instructions for it. It teaches your dog boundaries and helps to build their confidence.

Does your dog: Get on the furniture and refuse to get off? Nudge your hand, insisting on being petted or played with? Refuse to come when called? Defend its food bowl or toys from you? "Nothing in life is free" can help. "Nothing in life is free" is not a magic pill that will solve a specific behavior problem; rather it’s a way of living with your dog that will help it behave better because it trusts and accepts you as its leader and is confident knowing its place in your family.How To Practice "Nothing In Life Is Free:"Using positive reinforcement methods, teach your dog a few commands and/or tricks. "Sit," "Down" and "Stay" are useful commands and "Shake," "Speak" and "Rollover" are fun tricks to teach your dog.Once your dog knows a few commands, you can begin to practice "nothing in life is free." Before you give your dog anything (food, a treat, a walk, a pat on the head) it must first perform one of the commands it has learned. For example:
YOU:Put your dog’s leash on to go for a walk YOUR DOG: Must sit until you’ve put the leash on
YOU: Feed your dog
YOUR DOG: Must lie down and stay until you’ve put the bowl down
YOU: Play a game of fetch after work
YOUR DOG: Must sit and shake hands each time you throw the toy
YOU: Rub your dog’s belly while watching TV YOUR DOG: Must lie down and rollover before being petted
Once you’ve given the command, don’t give your dog what it wants until it does what you want. If it refuses to perform the command, walk away, come back a few minutes later and start again. If your dog refuses to obey the command, be patient and remember that eventually it will have to obey your command in order to get what it wants.

*IMPORTANT*Make sure your dog knows the command well and understands what you want before you begin practicing "nothing in life is free."
The Benefits Of This Technique:
Most dogs assume a neutral or submissive role toward people, but some dogs will challenge their owners for dominance. Requiring a dominant dog to work for everything it wants is a safe and non-confrontational way to establish control. Dogs who may never display aggressive behavior such as growling, snarling, or snapping, may still manage to manipulate you. These dogs may display affectionate, though "pushy" behavior, such as nudging your hand to be petted or "worming" its way on to the furniture in order to be close to you. This technique gently reminds the "pushy" dog that it must abide by your rules. Obeying commands helps build a fearful dog’s confidence; having a strong leader and knowing its place in the hierarchy helps to make the submissive dog feel more secure. Why This Technique WorksAnimals that live in groups, like dogs, establish a social structure within the group called a dominance hierarchy. This dominance hierarchy serves to maintain order, reduce conflict and promote cooperation among pack members. In order for your home to be a safe and happy place for pets and people, it’s best that the humans in the household assume the highest positions in the dominance hierarchy. Practicing "nothing in life is free" effectively and gently communicates to your dog that its position in the hierarchy is subordinate to yours. From your dog’s point of view, children also have a place in this hierarchy. Because children are small and can get down on the dog’s level to play, dogs often consider them to be playmates, rather than superiors. With the supervision of an adult, it’s a good idea to encourage children in the household (aged eight and over) to also practice "nothing in life is free" with your dog.

This program is awesome. I have recommended it to soo many people. My dog was always pushing to be the dominant one. And this really helped her see how our structure works. I only train with positive reinforcement, so this was a great fit for me.
I can almost guarantee that for the firs tfew days your dog will not respond to your commands and will still try to get what he wants. He is just testign his boundaries. Once he realizes that if he doesn't do a command and you walk away he will start to shape up rather quickly.
Its such an easy program. Your dog wants something, he has to give yousomething first. So simple. I think this may really help you and your dog.
Good Luck!

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montreal212
New Member

Posts: 5
From:Montreal, PQ Canada
Registered: Mar 2004

posted 03-18-2004 01:30 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for montreal212     Edit/Delete Message
thank you so much ---- i really appreciate this.


I just have a question, when he poos or pees outside his designated spot, how do I tell him it's wrong? someone advised us to pull the skin on the back of his neck --- and tell him in a stern voice :"bad dog --- no poo-ing or pee-ing here". Then we're supposed to take him to his spot and in a good tone tell him: "good potty here".

This is what we have been doing --- now we put a barrier(the one baby's use), so that he can't roam around the whole apartment. He has a good space to run and play which the floor is getting stained already because of his pee... I use vinegar and water to clean the floor, but he still does it anyway.

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bullylove1
Member

Posts: 173
From:Canada
Registered: Feb 2004

posted 03-18-2004 02:35 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for bullylove1     Edit/Delete Message
Personally I would not advice this. The reason I don't think it works is because the dog probably has no idea what you are saying bad dog to, and may get the impression you are talking about his bowl movements as a whole. This could cause problems because he may do 1 of 2 things.
1) Try to hold it in as long as possible because he thinks he will get in trouble for going
2) Still go in the house but try to hide it so you dont get mad.
Obviously you will get mad, but the dog doesn't understand this. He should be in your sight at all times. When you see him getting ready to squat, hold his collar (lightly,don't drag) and walk him to where you want him to go, then say "go pee". And wait there until he has gone and reward with a "good boy" very excitedly right after.
Hav eyo thught of dog litter boxes. I think they would be a bit more sanitary than just paper. I am sure they probably make some type of scented litter that may attract the dog to use the box more. Check your local pet store.

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montreal212
New Member

Posts: 5
From:Montreal, PQ Canada
Registered: Mar 2004

posted 03-18-2004 03:05 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for montreal212     Edit/Delete Message
thank you so much for your advice.

we will do our best and will update my posting!

by the way, our puppy's name is Miko and here are some pictures... enjoy!
http://f2.pg.photos.yahoo.com/ph/knik00/album?.tok=phw_M0AB98i_bf2X&.dir=/a7d7&.src=ph

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