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 docile 3-year old lab chow mix bites child
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| Author | Topic: docile 3-year old lab chow mix bites child |
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freealicia New Member  Posts: 1 |
posted 03-14-2004 08:13 PM
 
UPDATE: Thank you all for your thoughtful responses. I was pleasantly surprised to learn so many people cared about our situation. We did get the dog back. He was very happy (and I think thankful) to see my husband when he picked him up. After reading your comments, further consideration and more researach, we concluded the whole bite incident took place due to our negligence in the handling of the dog, it wasn't the poor things fault. We exposed him to strangers without having trained him and worse, without knowing if he had been properly socialized. We had never owned a dog before, only cats, and we just trusted the dog too much, when we shouldn't have, he is after all, a dog. We have ordered some training materials and a prong collar to start his training, we also got him a crate and now whenever someone is over, he will be in until they leave. This is acutally not bad, since we hardly ever have anyone over and don't have nor plan on having kids. He is on short leash when we walk him and don't let anyone near him on the street. After further researching chows and chow mixes, we found out firm hand training can actually turn this dog into a good and happy pet, he just needs a lot of work and time, that we are willing to put in. I am very happy my husband decided to give him a second chance. The poor dog only had us to look after him and we failed him in a way. My husband has however, warned me that if he bites ANYONE or ANYTHING ever again, he will be gone. I think that is fare, since we are going to put in a lot of time and training to stop any other bitting incident ever happening again. THANK YOU ALL again for your responses!!!! ******************************************** We adopted a lab chow mix from a shelter about three weeks ago. We actually felt lucky because he is very sweet, docile and house broken, overall a great dog. Since he had a bad cold when we adopted him, it was on us to have him neutered. We did just three days ago. Today, we were visited by our 9-year old nephew. We were working on a garden project and took both the dog and child to a nursery to buy what we needed, everything was fine, the dog even walked side-by-side the child while on a leash at the nursery. When we got home, the dog what left indoors and we were outside. The dog wanted to get out of the house and we wouldn't let him. The child rested his hand over the dog's head to get past him throught the sliding door into the garden and the dog just bit the child by the hip. It was a terrible scare! The child just had a couple of minor bruises on his leg, but my husband kept on saying that no matter what, the dog should never bite a human. He brought him back to the shelter. I feel terrible, I keep on telling my husband that it could have been the child was too close to the dog, and the dog felt crowded or that he was protecting his territory (the dog's house was in the back yard) or that he might have been irritable since his neutering surgery was so recent. We had also had some obedience challenges with the dog as I don't believe he has been trained or properly socialized. I want to go and get my dog back!! but now I am concerned he might just keep on bitting and we just don't want that liablity or worse, that he might turn on one of us. Is there hope this dog can still have hope?? PLEASE, ANYONE, YOUR ADVISE WILL BE GREATLY APPRECIATED, we had never owned a dog before and we are kind of in the dark.
[This message has been edited by freealicia (edited 03-21-2004).] IP: Logged |
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kyles101 Member  Posts: 227 |
posted 03-14-2004 08:20 PM
go get your dog back! he might not be used to children and training can fix that. find a good trainer and they will help you fix that problem. alot of shelter animals can be a bit funny but it takes time. IP: Logged |
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raindigger Member Posts: 25 |
posted 03-14-2004 08:31 PM
Sorry, I disagree. I and so many fellow groomers refuse chow and chow mixes because they are very hard to read. After thirty years of grooming and training I have seen too many owners afraid of their own dogs. I know there are good chows, but if it bites I would not trust it again. IP: Logged |
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kyles101 Member Posts: 227 |
posted 03-14-2004 10:02 PM
thats a bit unfair. there is a difference between grooming and everyday life. if a puppy bit a child because they have never come across one before would you suggest that it should never be trusted again and they should get rid of it? i think this dog should be given a second chance with professional training, and if that fails THEN the appropriate mesures should be taken. i strongly urge freealicia to hire a professional trainer and they will help train the dog and get it accustomed to different situations! IP: Logged |
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elizavixen Member Posts: 160 |
posted 03-14-2004 10:35 PM
Some dogs are just nervous around children. Others do not like to be touched on the head. I had a dog like that. Sweet as can be but would growl when you would crowd his head. Anyways, you only had the dog 3 wks. I don't think that would be enough time for him to become completely used to you and your family. He was probably still on edge. I would give it another shot but give him more time before allowing him to be in situations such as that one. He needs to feel completely safe. And you need to figure out his nuances. I don't think it is fair to give a dog the "one bite and you're out" rule. Dogs bite when they are afraid. You should not allow your dog to be put in a situation where they would bite out of fear. Raindigger - This is not a chow thing. You shouldn't try to blame this on the breed. It was not the breed, it was the situation. IP: Logged |
Jas Moderator Posts: 536 |
posted 03-14-2004 11:28 PM
In all fairness it was likely not the dogs fault. Given his unknown background all precautions should be taken with children. I believe a dog and child should never be left alone together no matter how well they know each other or how great they get along. Children can be unpredictable in their actions and this confuses dogs. With recent surgery he could still be uncomfortable (in pain) and fearful that your nephew was going to hurt him so naturally he wanted to protect himself. Has the dog been examined for any injuries or conditions that may be causing him pain which attributed to his lashing out. Perhaps the dog was stressed and anxious because he couldn't get to you outside and felt trapped or cornered. If you are able to keep a close eye on your dog every minute when children are around (at least until you know his tolerance) then look into getting him back. At the very least get the shelter to reevaluate and test him. IP: Logged |
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susan_cude@hotmail.com Member Posts: 813 |
posted 03-14-2004 11:30 PM
You're not going to like my answer either but I wouldn't get the dog back. Some breeds of dogs tend to be more tempermental than others, and I believe Chow's are one of those breeds. I'm sorry that happened to your nephew, but it could have been much worse. I know most people won't agree with me here, and that's fine! Susan IP: Logged |
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susan_cude@hotmail.com Member Posts: 813 |
posted 03-14-2004 11:36 PM
Hi! I did some research on the breed, and this is what I found. I hope it helps you! Personality The Chow Chow's disposition is quite different from other breeds. They are catlike in their attitudes: aloof, reserved with affection, independent, dignified and stubborn. Although their soft fur is ripe for hugging, they do not always enjoy being fussed over by children or strangers. The Chow is very intelligent but like a cat, not as highly motivated to please their masters as most other breeds. They seem to please themselves first. They do not tolerate physical punishment. Hitting or beating a Chow may result in viciousness or a broken spirit. The Chow expects to be treated with dignity and respect. He will return that respect with undying loyalty if he believes you are worthy of it. The Chow Chow's temperament is often misunderstood by people who do not understand the breed's unique nature. Naturally suspicious of strangers and territorial, they take their homes and families very seriously as well their responsibility to protect what they love. On his own property and without his owner present, the Chow may appear to be quite fierce. He will seldom let a stranger pass unchallenged. People used to the warm welcomes of other breeds may be startled by the seriousness of the Chow. Once greeted by the owner and accepted into the home, the Chow should accept the stranger but may be reserved in his desire to make friends. I'm sorry I was so negetive about this breed, but my daughter had one and he was mean also. I guess I'm a little leary of this breed... Sincerely, Susan IP: Logged |
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susan_cude@hotmail.com Member Posts: 813 |
posted 03-14-2004 11:49 PM
Hi! I just thought I should give you the site i got the information from. http://www.unsolvedmysteries.com/usm348164.html IP: Logged |
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kyles101 Member Posts: 227 |
posted 03-15-2004 02:32 AM
susan thats really ignorant. how can you say she shouldnt get the dog back based on its breed? any dog could have reacted that way in that situation. i know plenty of mean dogs who arent chows. akitas have almost identical descriptions to chows but does that mean no one should own an akita? sorry, but breed discrimination shits me to tears. there isnt enough fingers on my hand to count the amount of times someone has come up to me and said 'akitas are viscious, oh why is yours so sweet?' IP: Logged |
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kellie's cocker Member Posts: 12 |
posted 03-15-2004 05:36 AM
i guess it all depends on if you want to take a chance of him biting again, personally i wouldn't! go buy a puppy train him right, i say sometimes its hard to train a dog someone has ruined. they say a puppy learns in his first year....just my opinion, and everyone has one!!!! IP: Logged |
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puggleowner Member Posts: 228 |
posted 03-15-2004 06:01 AM
That is completely unfair to say that a dog is "ruined," just because he/she has had a bad experience in life. Are children who come from abused homes "ruined" as well and should not even be considered for adoption to loving parents? I don't think so- sorry for using the "child vs dog" comparison that some will probably baulk over, but I just think the attitude that some people have towards rescue dogs is not right. Sure, go get a puppy, but realize that it too could have issues with children if you don't train it properly. It is my opinion that any dog can be trained unless they have some major deep-rooted issues, which most rescue dogs do not or they would not be available for adoption, they simply need some love and obedience. Though the original post states that the child touched the dogs head, knowing how little children can be, I imagine it was more like a hard push so the child could use him as sort of a "rail" as he exited the house. The dog was in new surroundings and still unsure of the situation, and likely experienced some sort of abuse in the past, was probably fearful of what the child was doing, and bit him to protect himself. Give the dog another chance, and do not let children be around him unattended until you have trained him better. GIve him a chance to understand that human touch is not a threatening thing, and I bet it will not happen again. That said, chows are a unique breen in their temperment, and aren't like goldens that can be basically mauled by children with no response. You will likely always have to be careful with children around this dog, but that does not mean that it can't be a wonderful loving dog, especially since, as you stated, he seems so "docile and sweet," in all other areas. IP: Logged |
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karma Member Posts: 77 |
posted 03-15-2004 06:39 AM
What a tough situation! Good arguments have been made for both sides. But there's another thing to consider here: the legal issue. If the dog bit someone again, you may have more of a liability since you knew he bit someone previously. If I were the parent of a second child he bit, I'm not sure I'd be so forgiving. IP: Logged |
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Maisey Member Posts: 1387 |
posted 03-15-2004 07:38 AM
I agree with Elizavixen and Jas here...I also feel it is ignorant and unfair to say a dog should never bite a human no matter what. If you don't have small children, keeping the dog and being safe could be as simple as putting the dog up when small children visit. Training and desensitizing would help. Learning some safety rules to dog ownership would be helpful, and learning to read your dog is a must. I think the mistakes here were on the humans, taking the dog back to the shelter "because it bit a child" will likely mean it will not be put up for adoption again and probably euthanized. I don't say that to be mean, it's just the way it will likely happen. I have a Poodle who will bite male children if given half a chance, he was abused by a boy for the first year of his life...and to him, little boys are a threat. I don't blame him one bit for feeling this way, he has every reason to believe they will hurt him. We just don't allow him around boys. It is our job to protect him, as well as others. You don't know this dogs history, it takes a long while to get to know and understand an individual dog. They ALL have quirks, as owners we work with them. I am not telling you to go get the dog, only you can decide if you want to work with him, and if you think you can live with the limit that may be there (not being around children with the dog), or the extra burden of money spent on a behaviorist or trainer. I have three dogs, my two big boys love children but I would never leave them alone, unattended with a child. Truth be known I trust children less than I do dogs, either by lack of knowing or onaryness,or by simply being a kid...they can and do manage to push a dog past it's limits. The whole basing a dogs temperment on breed alone is crap, those who think it's true need to get educated, IMO. IP: Logged |
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Jamiya Member Posts: 1392 |
posted 03-15-2004 08:14 AM
"That is completely unfair to say that a dog is "ruined," just because he/she has had a bad experience in life. Are children who come from abused homes "ruined" as well and should not even be considered for adoption to loving parents?" I know where you're coming from with that, puggleowner. And of course an abused child deserves the chance to be adopted by a loving family. But after spending the last 2 years trying to help an adult survivor of an abusive childhood, I can say with 100% certainty that this person will NEVER, EVER be "normal" or have "normal" reactions to everyday things. And professional intervention is a must. Of course, everyone is different. That being said, it depends how much work freealicia and her family wants to put into the dog. I agree that with proper training and supervision, the dog can probably be a good dog. But if that is too much for the family to handle, then they would not be doing him a service by taking him back. We cannot choose our children. But we can choose our dogs. And no matter how deserving any particular dog is, the fact of the matter is, if it is a new dog and it will be a burden on your family and will not fill your needs, the dog is better off with someone else. There are so many dogs looking for a good home - I think people can afford to choose the right one and even make an honest mistake or two in the process.
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angelgirl2003 Member Posts: 59 |
posted 03-15-2004 09:09 AM
This is def a tough situation. We had a chow lab mix puppy....6 wks old. We also had a 3 year old little boy. They played and played until the pup, Apollo, was about 5 months old. Apollo then started biting...my child, myself, my husband. I have worked closely with many breeds, including Rotties Labs Mastiffs Boxers, etc and never again would I personally own chow anything again. It is your call, however. If you choose to go get your dog back, and that dog bites again, are you prepared to deal with the consequences? (Esp. with a child) All dogs are capable of biting. You also have to take into consideration your husband. He returned the dog. His feelings are now totally turned off for this pooch. Is it fair to him and the dog to bring him back home? Also, how would your nephew feel about it? There is more to this topic than will the dog bite again. You must take into consideration your family members and the well being of the animal. Good luck and remember, it was just my OPINION to not get a chow anything again.  IP: Logged |
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Samsintentions Member Posts: 944 |
posted 03-15-2004 09:09 AM
My experiances with chows and chow mixes. are mixed.... Some are agressive to their territory, and will bit if provoked or irritable. Its very possible he's unsocialized and hasn't been around children. Positive reinforcement can help, along with a behaviorist and obediance training. Chows are hard to read, and unpredictable, what breed isn't? IMO I would only get a chow or chow mix, if it was a young puppy and could grow up with a child. That way, they are accustom to each other and the dog is fully socialized with children. IP: Logged |
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Kathy74 Member Posts: 29 |
posted 03-15-2004 09:17 AM
Our situation was a little different, as our dog always showed fear and apprehension of children. We keep her on her leash with her prong collar when children arrive at our house, and explain to all children that her other people were very mean to her and sometimes she gets jumpy. Some kids understand, and she can come off her leash, some don't and she stays on. Someone had also suggested a basket muzzle for when people come over. That might help for you, should you decide to get her back. You don't have to answer this, it's just food for thought: Do you have children of your own or are you planning to? That would weigh heavily on my mind if I were in your position. Our first dog was "ruined" by her previous people, but tell her that when she kisses ya till you can't breath cuz you're laughing too hard! With alot of daily training, and strict monitoring, she has become the best, most loyal dog I can imagine! I wish you good luck with a very difficult decision! IP: Logged |
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susan_cude@hotmail.com Member Posts: 813 |
posted 03-15-2004 10:49 AM
Kyles, I knew my thoughts about this would stir up some debate, that is why i did some research into it. I was trying to be fair and balanced here! perhaps that part of it you didn't notice, sinse you called me ignorant..... I have never insulted anyone personaly on this board, and I never will! I simply debate the issue, I'm pretty sure that's what this site is for. We all have our opinions but that doesn't make us ignorant. I respect your opinion, I know that you have had issues with assumptions about your dog, I had an Akita myself once. Freealicia, after reading all of the different sides of this issue, I have to say! I'm most concerned about what Maisey brought up about the dog being put down now that he has bittin a child. I hope to God that doesn't happen! My research into Chows was givin to educate you, not to discourage you from getting him back. I learned alott also in my reading, and if you have the funds, time and both you and your husband are willing to give it another try, that's up to you. "of coarse" Please let us know what you have decided to do. Sincerely, Susan IP: Logged |
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2pyrs Member Posts: 30 |
posted 03-15-2004 11:43 PM
Susan I have to agree with you and I think most all of us have had a dog bite in some way. My son had to get stitches on his head from a 3 year old 140 pound pyr we took in. He was gone that night, I just would not take the chance with my son even if we cared about the big guy. I myself well not tolerate a dog biting under any circumstances, from day one I teach my guys there mouth never touches me. I have to say it broke my heart to take him back and know I did not want him put down. I never could ask what happen to him and all I could do is hope it worked out for him in the end. Keep in mind many people once bitten never feel comfortable around that dog and worry about it happening again. I feel for the husband who only wants to protect the child. Sorry and I hope you find the answer in your heart that is best for all. 2pyrs IP: Logged |
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