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Author Topic:   this is pretty descriptive so...
MaryNH
Member

Posts: 240
From:Campton, NH USA
Registered: Jan 2004

posted 03-02-2004 11:41 AM     Click Here to See the Profile for MaryNH     Edit/Delete Message
if you get weak in the knees over graphic stuff don't read it.

It was written by a dog breeder in Canada - hits home pretty well ALL of the things that could go wrong - again it can be disturbing. I'm glad I NEVER let any of my pets reproduce...the stuff that can go wrong is mind-boggling.

"ATTENTION ALL NOVICE POTENTIAL BREEDERS!!!!
SO YOU WANT TO BE A BREEDER?
Breeding the female

So you want to breed your female. You know what to expect if everything goes right. Your little girl will present you with tiny bundles of joy. She will lovingly nurse them and care for them until they are old enough to be weaned. You and your family will find great joy in watching and playing with these little dolls, and then when the time is right they will all (or maybe you keep just one) go off to special homes to live out their lives as cherished companions. But have you given consideration to what if something goes wrong? I have listed here a few of the problems that I myself have personal knowledge of. Everything listed has happened either to me, or some one I know. These are not isolated incidents. I’m sure other breeders could add miles to my list. Learn by others mistakes!. Let the breeding up to those who know what they are doing, have the experience, know what to expect.

What if during the breeding............

1) The stud dog you have chosen is carrying a venereal disease and gives it to your female. She not only dose not conceive but you have to pay the vet bills to get her infection cleared up and she is now sterile.

2) The stud dog you decided to breed your darling to is not experienced. Once the two dogs are joined tightly in a tie, he decides to chase the neighbor’s cat out of his yard. He bolts for the cat ripping his penis loose and causing your bitch to hemorrhage from within.

3) Your modest girl decides she doesn’t want the attentions of this gigolo mutt chosen for her without her consent. She snaps at him catching her tooth on his loose cheek and rips it open sending blood flying everywhere. He retaliates by sinking his teeth into her left eye.

4) You leave your dog with the stud owner because the breeding is not going very swiftly. In fact , it’s been three hours and nothing is happening. The stud owners leave the two dogs alone in the back yard. The dogs get out through a tiny hole in the fence and a truck hits your female.

5) You pay the $250-$1,000 stud fee up front figuring you will make that and more back when the pups sell. The breeder guarantees the stud service to work or you can come back again. After 2 months you discover it didn’t work and now must wait another 4 months to try again. Of course it doesn’t work again, so in another 4 months you take your dog to another male and risk loosing another stud fee.

6) You get her bred. Bring her home. She bothers you so you let her out (she is still in heat and still receptive to males). You here a commotion outside there is your girl tied up with the neighborhood mutt. When she whelps there will need to be DNA tests done on the pups.

7) You get her bred. Bring her home. Let her out. (She is still in heat and receptive to other males) but you do not see the neighborhood mutt breed her. The pups are born but look odd. You call the stud owner he suggests DNA testing (At your expense). You have a litter of mutts!
what do you do about the ones you have already sold?.

8) Or knowing she tied with the neighborhood mutt you decide to terminate the pregnancy and try again being more careful next time. But a few weeks later your female is very sick because you had her given a miss-mate shot and now she has Pyometra and needs a complete hysterectomy. All plans of getting a litter is gone and your females life is now in danger if she dose not have the operation.

What if during the birth..............

1) The puppies are too large for the female’s hips. She never goes into labor, the puppies die and she becomes infected by the decaying bodies.

2) The puppies are coming breach and they drown in their own sacks before they can be born.

3) The first puppy is large and breach. When it starts coming your female starts screaming, and before you can stop her she reaches around, grabs the puppy in her teeth and yanks it out killing it instantly.

4) A puppy gets stuck. Neither your female nor you can get it out. You have to race her to the vet. The vet can’t get it out either. She has to have an emergency caesarian section of course it is 3:00 am Christmas day.

5) A puppy is coming out breach and dry (the water sack that protects them has burst). It gets stuck. Momma tries to help it out by clamping her teeth over one of the back legs. The head and shoulders are firmly caught. Momma pulls on the leg, hard, peeling the flesh from the leg and leaving a wiggling stump of bone.
6) A dead puppy gets stuck in the birth canal, but your female is well into hard labor. She contracts so hard trying to give birth that her uterus ruptures and she bleeds to death on the way to the vet.

What if directly after birth..........

1) The mother has no idea what to do with a puppy and she drops them out and walks away, leaving them in the sack to drown.

2) The mother takes one look at the puppies, decides they are disgusting droppings and tries to smother them in anything she can find to bury them in.

3) The mother gets too enthusiastic in her removal of the placenta and umbilical cord, and rips the cord out leaving a gushing hole pulsing blood all over you as you try in vain to stop the bleeding.

4) Or, she pulls on the cords so hard she disembowels the puppies as they are born and you have a box full of tiny; kicking babies with a tangle of guts the size of a walnut hanging from their stomachs. Of course all the babies must be put to sleep.

5) What if because of some hormone deficiency she turns vicious allowing no one near her or the babies, who she refuses to nurse, or you have you interfere with.

6) You notice something protruding from her vagina when you let her out to pee; you take her to the vet to discover a prolapsed uterus, which needs to be removed.

What if when you think you are in the clear..................

1) One or more of the puppies inhaled fluid during birth, pneumonia develops and death occurs within 36 hours.

2) what if the mothers milk goes bad. You lose three of your four puppies before you discover what is wrong. You end up bottle-feeding the remaining pup every two hours, day and night. After three days the puppy fades from infection and dies.

3) The puppies develop fading puppy syndrome you lose two. Your bottle-feeding or tube feeding the last remaining baby. It begins to choke and despite your efforts to clear the airway, the pup stiffens and dies in your hands.

4) Your female develops mastitis and her breast ruptures.

5) Your female develops a uterine infection from a retained placenta. Her temperature soars to 105. You race her to the vet, he determines she must be spayed. He dose the spay in an attempt to save her life, you pay the hundreds of dollars bill. The infection has gone into her blood stream. The infected milk kills all the puppies and the bitch succumbs a day later.

6) All the puppies are fine but following the birth the female develops a hormone imbalance. She becomes a fear biter and anytime anyone tries to touch her she viciously attacks him or her.

7) Mom and pups seem fine, the puppies are four weeks old and are at their cutest. But one day one of the puppies disappears. You search everywhere but you can’t find it. A few days later another puppy is gone. And another. You can’t figure how on earth the puppies are getting out of their safe 4’ x 4’ puppy pen. Finally there is only one puppy left. The next morning you find the mother chomping contentedly on what is left of the last murdered puppy.

What if the new homes are not so happy?.......................

1) You give a puppy to a friend. Their fence blows down so they tie the puppy outside while they go to work. A roving dog comes along and kills the puppy. Your friend calls you up to tell you about the poor little puppy and asks when you are having more puppies.

2) You sell a puppy to an acquaintance. The next time you see them you ask how the puppy is doing. They tell you that it soiled their new carpet so they took it to the pound

3) You sell a puppy to a friend (you give them a good price and payments). They make a couple of tiny payments. Six months later they move to an apartment. They ask you to take it back. You take it back and of course the payments stop. The dog they returned is so shy, and ill mannered from lack of socialization and training it takes you a year of work providing socializing and training to be able to give it away.

4) You sell a puppy to a wonderful home. They love her like one of the family. At a vet check done by their vet it is determined that the puppy has a heart murmur. (Your vet found nothing when he checked the puppy before it was sold.) They love their puppy and want the best for her. They have an expensive surgery done. The puppy is fine. They sue you for the medical costs. They win, because you did not have a contract stipulating conditions of guarantee and so as breeder you are responsible for the puppies genetic health.

5) You give a puppy to your mother. She is thrilled. Two years later the puppy starts developing problems. It begins to develop odd symptoms and is suffering. Hundreds and hundreds of dollars worth of tests later it is finally discovered that the dog is suffering from a terminal condition that was inherited. Possibly, from your female since you know nothing about her family lines.
6) One loving home decides your puppy is un-trainable, destructive and wants to return the pup and get a full refund, which you have spent on your vet bills.

7) One loving couple calls you and is very upset because their pup has crippling hip dysphasia and want to know what you are going to do about it. You have spayed your female so a replacement is out of the question, looks like another refund.

The Sale:...................

1) You put your ad in the local paper for your pups at the usual price and get only 2 responses and no sales. You cut the pup’s price in half and broaden your advertising to 3 other newspapers in which the advertising totals $120.00 a week.

2) You get a few more puppy inquiries from people who ask all about health testing you did before breeding and if the pups are registered. You tell them your dogs are healthy and it was enough and that you could get the papers. The callers politely thank you and hang up.

3) the pups are now 4 months old and getting bigger , eating allot and their barking is really beginning to annoy the neighbors who call the police who inform you of the $150.00 noise by-law.

4) Your neighbors also call the humane society who comes out to inspect the care of your dogs. You pass inspection but end up feeling stressed and harassed.

5) You finally decide to give the rest of the litter away but still have to pay the $1200.oo advertising bill and the $600.oo vet bill.


So you got to ask yourself
do I feel lucky?
Am I willing to take on such responsibility? "

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bullylove1
Member

Posts: 173
From:Canada
Registered: Feb 2004

posted 03-02-2004 12:44 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for bullylove1     Edit/Delete Message
Hey Mary,
This is a really good article. I hae started a group on Yahoo! (for Pit Bulls) to promote awareness and responsible ownership of dogs, which to me means NO breeding. I was wondering if you minded if I put this on my files page, and possibly crosspost it to some different groups I belong to.
Just let me know.
Thanks
Leslie
You can email me if you like at leslie146@hotmail.com

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bullylove1
Member

Posts: 173
From:Canada
Registered: Feb 2004

posted 03-15-2004 11:10 AM     Click Here to See the Profile for bullylove1     Edit/Delete Message
Mry, I hope you don't mind, I meant to ask you first but this girl is running out of time. I crossposted this to the Pit Bull forum. I really think it will help her. Her 11 month dog was in heat and got out of the yard. She doesn't want to terminate the pregancy because she thinks its inhumane, and she has no idea who the "father"is. I amhoping this article will convince her to trminate. She was also planning on keeping all the pups. Yikes!

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MaryNH
Member

Posts: 240
From:Campton, NH USA
Registered: Jan 2004

posted 03-15-2004 11:22 AM     Click Here to See the Profile for MaryNH     Edit/Delete Message
you can crosspost, email this article as much as you like - I "borrowed" it from another dog site I belong to

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lanena322
Member

Posts: 69
From:Cidra, Puerto Rico
Registered: Feb 2004

posted 03-15-2004 12:49 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for lanena322     Edit/Delete Message
that is a wonderful post, really opens your eyes. Lots of people will read articles like this, and after every possibility say "oh this wouldnt happen to me" but this article really does open our eyes its definately different.

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susan_cude@hotmail.com
Member

Posts: 813
From:Santa Maria, Ca.
Registered: Nov 2003

posted 03-15-2004 12:56 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for susan_cude@hotmail.com     Edit/Delete Message
Oh my Goodness! is that an eye opener....And very depressing. leave the breeding to those who know what they are doing! Thank God Casey didn't have any real big problems and i was able to help her. NEVER AGAIN

Thanks for posting this, even though it WAS very hard to read.

Suan

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2pyrs
Member

Posts: 30
From:ohio
Registered: Feb 2004

posted 03-16-2004 12:03 AM     Click Here to See the Profile for 2pyrs     Edit/Delete Message
And what if the sun does not come up today, and what if ? Yes life has it's what if and I just can't live like that. I know the point is to think about what you are getting into and the responsibilities but really it sounds more like you should never breed again because of all the unknowns.
So should we apply this to everyday life. I mean if two people who are blind have a child does that mean there child well be blind ? My wife's sister had a miscarriage so she should have never tried again for the little boy she ended up having .
No I don't like that post just to many what if..... To the point with less drama, Responsibilities.

2pyrs

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kyles101
Member

Posts: 227
From:Perth, Western Australia
Registered: May 2003

posted 03-16-2004 01:00 AM     Click Here to See the Profile for kyles101     Edit/Delete Message
i have a million things i could say to this. im trying to find a way to get my message across and that people would understand without going 'huh?' or thinking i have it in for the human race. ok ill try this. whats wrong with what ifs? what ifs stop us from doing stupid things. you ignore the what ifs and the lives you helped create could suffer. why do people forget about everyone else apart from themselves when they want to create life? its jsut so easy for someone else to say 'oh poor thing' when something goes wrong. ask yourself this, would YOU want to be the dying puppy? would YOU want to be the dog in pain? would YOU want to be the one who goes to a bad home? and when you talk about the blind couple, would they want to be the blind child that gets popped out? that might change your perspective. some people might not know what i mean and thats ok because you probably havent experienced a 'what if' gone sour.

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MaryNH
Member

Posts: 240
From:Campton, NH USA
Registered: Jan 2004

posted 03-16-2004 05:44 AM     Click Here to See the Profile for MaryNH     Edit/Delete Message
The "what ifs" are okay when we are talking about oneself...we make our own choices - but when we are talking about making the choices for another life then we MUST stop and think about what the consequences are.

Sure if a person makes the decision to go out and sleep with every person they are attracted to and either get a disease or end up pregnant that is a risk they have taken upon themselves.

But if that same person encourages another to live just as irresponsbility they are making a choice for another life and that is just not right.

Our pets, like our children, are our responsibility. If something like this breeder is describing could be prevented the owner of the pet would be stupid, or plain uncaring, to know prevent it. Would someone let their young daughter end up pregnant, either by rape or by having sex too young, and insist that child go through with the pregnancy and delivery - if anyone ever says yes to that they shouldn't have had that daughter to begin with.

Yes we live with "what ifs" everyday and that's how we learn...but those "what ifs" are something we should only take upon ourselves and not chance on other people.

"what if I drink these 2 six-packs of beer and then drive my car into heavy traffic - gee will I get home okay or will I kill someone"....it's pure logic and responsibility that should answer questions like that - rather than risk the obvious.

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susan_cude@hotmail.com
Member

Posts: 813
From:Santa Maria, Ca.
Registered: Nov 2003

posted 03-16-2004 08:33 AM     Click Here to See the Profile for susan_cude@hotmail.com     Edit/Delete Message
I'm glad that you posted the original post, it was educational. Then you said the followong....

"Would someone let their young daughter end up pregnant, either by rape or by having sex too young, and insist that child go through with the pregnancy and delivery - if anyone ever says yes to that they shouldn't have had that daughter to begin with."

I guess all of us who concider human life as valuable and created by God are stupid and should never had children to begin with, even if we were young... Hmmmm I think not!!!! I had my Daughter when I was 17, my mistake! not my Mothers..The woman was a saint! But I guess she didn't deserve me! is that right? HOGWASH....UNBORN CHILDREN CAN'T FEND FOR THEMSELVES EITHER.....

But since this is not dog related, I'll stop...

Susan

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bullylove1
Member

Posts: 173
From:Canada
Registered: Feb 2004

posted 03-16-2004 08:35 AM     Click Here to See the Profile for bullylove1     Edit/Delete Message
Mary, I completely agree with what you and Kyle said. Unfortunately the gorl who I sent this to doesn't agree and has agreed to go through with the pregnancy. Some of the other posters have been trying to give her info to help her. But I almost feel that there is still a strong prescence of resentment towards her for going through with it. Hopefully all goes well.
I will be continuing to crosspost this.
Thanks

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MaryNH
Member

Posts: 240
From:Campton, NH USA
Registered: Jan 2004

posted 03-16-2004 05:48 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for MaryNH     Edit/Delete Message
susan_cude....I should have been more descriptive - I mean young children ages 12-15 or so. I had my oldest son at 18 and I was unwed.

The incidences I mean are such as a young girl who got into something a little too deep to handle such as a 14 yr. old girl being dragged into a room from a teen while she is spending the night with a friend (this happened to a friend's daughter recently) - if this girl was to end up pregnant should she have to go through the pregnancy on a "what if" - I should have been more specific.

Yes I was a young unwed mother also and I am also the produce of an unwed mother...so I feel I have the right to have some say on the subject.

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susan_cude@hotmail.com
Member

Posts: 813
From:Santa Maria, Ca.
Registered: Nov 2003

posted 03-16-2004 10:01 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for susan_cude@hotmail.com     Edit/Delete Message
Mary, I apologize for that! it hit a nerve and i over reacted. I'm a Cristian Woman who believes ALL life is valuable. That was not a suitable responce......

Susan

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Samsintentions
Member

Posts: 944
From:Columbus, Tx ,USA
Registered: Dec 2003

posted 03-17-2004 06:03 AM     Click Here to See the Profile for Samsintentions     Edit/Delete Message
I don't really know what to say on the subject, as I have no children. I've lost one and I feel it was for the better. It was an accident I was fully protected as well as he, and I think God saw the mistake, and knew something was wrong, so he fixed it. But how can her fix all the problems and mistakes of the world? A little common scence in some parts would help.

The What Ifs are what SAVE LIVES!!!

If someone is ignorant enough to set aside the what ifs and proceed with the could be's....then so be it. They'll be the ones with the conceince(sp?) haunting them all their lives. The product will suffer in pain, physically and mentally, and thats just plain WRONG!!!

LIfe is as we individually take it. Its sad that most of us don't care, or have the common scence to know whats right or wrong. Whats good or bad. Most don't care to attempt to protect their lives and the lives of others, through any surcomstance. Accidents happen, there are methods to controll and fix them, no matter what your beliefs are, we all know, deep down some where what needs to be done and what should be done.

The only thing is, who listens to those subconcious voices of warning?

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puggleowner
Member

Posts: 228
From:Grand Rapids, MI
Registered: Nov 2003

posted 03-17-2004 06:51 AM     Click Here to See the Profile for puggleowner     Edit/Delete Message
I don't think the point of the original post was to discourage everyone in the world from breeding- it was to make everyone aware of all the problems that can accompany breeding, and to make sure that when someone decides to breed their dog, that they are aware of all these consequences- I think trained, qualified breeders are aware of all of these things, and if something horrible were to go wrong, they would know how to best handle it and accept that responsibility when they breed dogs. However, I think most people who just decide on a whim, "my dog is so great, I think I want to breed him/her so that I can have a litter of wonderful, cute puppies to cuddle...." DO NOT have a sense of what a complicated process it can be. I think that is what the original post was intended for, to discourage the thinking that anyone who has a dog is qualified to breed him/her. Like the person who posted on this board just recently that they were looking for a male to breed with their female...I'm sorry, but if you are a qualified breeder you DO NOT look for a stud on a message board!!

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puggleowner
Member

Posts: 228
From:Grand Rapids, MI
Registered: Nov 2003

posted 03-18-2004 08:22 AM     Click Here to See the Profile for puggleowner     Edit/Delete Message
bump

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Jamiya
Member

Posts: 1392
From:
Registered: Sep 2003

posted 03-18-2004 10:39 AM     Click Here to See the Profile for Jamiya     Edit/Delete Message
Well said, puggleowner. The what-if's are important in order to make a well educated decision. If I were to breed my beloved dog, I would want to KNOW before doing it that there was the possiblity that she could die or otherwise become very sick! Some people do not realize that there are the possibilities for these terrible things to happen, and if they did know they would not breed.

Knowledge is a good thing. Educated decisions are the best ones.


Jamiya

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snooks
New Member

Posts: 9
From:Vancouver BC Canada
Registered: Mar 2004

posted 03-18-2004 11:06 AM     Click Here to See the Profile for snooks     Edit/Delete Message
I had actually seen this somewhere else and had e-mailed it to my brother-in-law when he told me he was breeding his german shepard. I don't win any popularity contest with that part of the family, but a lot of people just don't understand the reality of situation. they, just like my brother-in-law thought it would be fun. I don't have anything against breeding as long as it is done by a responsible breeder who knows the risks and does it to improve the breed. Left in the hands of the inexperienced or uncaring there are often tragic results. Because I volunteer with shelters, I quite often see these results first hand

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