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Author Topic:   Update on puzzling symptoms/American Bulldog
Atlantabulldog
New Member

Posts: 5
From:Atlanta, GA
Registered: Mar 2004

posted 03-02-2004 08:53 AM     Click Here to See the Profile for Atlantabulldog     Edit/Delete Message
Thanks to all who took the time to reply to my previous post. The diversity of opinions is interesting.

As an update: The puppy went back to the vet this morning, since he still wouldn't eat, showed little interest in water, and also was doing some weird "twitching." We were starting to get concerned about the whole gamut of possibilites - parvo, distemper, etc. However, he still would gobble up certain kinds of treats, and his behavior has been pretty normal (playing, pretty active, looks good except for getting thin).

Bottom line from the vet was, "Sorry, this just really looks like a healthy puppy except that he needs to eat more." This must be a conservative vet; he says he'll be glad to take another $200 of our money for blood tests if we insist, but he does not think that the dog has a significant problem. He is recommending dietary changes. He thinks the fact that the puppy will voraciously eat certain kinds of treats is pretty telling. So I guess this is good news - I just hope the vet is right.

As for the many replies to my original message, the most interesting thing to me was all the strong opinions about food. There seems to be a feeling that vets are in a conspiracy with companies like Eukanuba and Iams to promote crappy foods. Makes me wonder...but how much of this is a lot of so-called "organic"/"healthy" food companies selling ultraexpensive foods under the premise that they are so much better for the dog? It seems to me that the health food industry for humans has done a lot of that over the years...not sure if it's any different for pets. No question that there are healthier foods and less healthy foods, but can anyone point me to an HONEST, UNBIASED, SCIENTIFIC source of information about dog foods?????

Thanks!!

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susan_cude@hotmail.com
Member

Posts: 813
From:Santa Maria, Ca.
Registered: Nov 2003

posted 03-02-2004 09:21 AM     Click Here to See the Profile for susan_cude@hotmail.com     Edit/Delete Message
Hi! reading what is in the dog food is "whats telling" I pointed you to the post called FOOD FOR THOUGHT in your last post, take a look at it! Like I said, I think it will help you...Good luck! I'm sure you'll find one that's nutritional and one that he likes.

I think I would also concider another vet for a second opinion just incase...

Susan

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Jamiya
Member

Posts: 1392
From:
Registered: Sep 2003

posted 03-02-2004 09:31 AM     Click Here to See the Profile for Jamiya     Edit/Delete Message
It is very difficult to find unbiased information. I also don't consider vets to be "in a conspiracy" with the pet food manufacturers. Sure, there are probably some who are in it just for the money. But for every one of those, there are probably 10 more that have just taken what they were told and what they learned in school as fact, without thinking about it. While this is not responsible, it doesn't make them monsters.

Also, it is a fact that most vets only have to take one class (if even that) in nutrition in vet school. It has just not been an area that has been emphasized. I think vets are more focused on disease than health, if you want my opinion (I believe this about some doctors as well).

If you are serious and want to do a lot of research, you would need to start by finding reputable sources of small animal nutrition. If you do this, you will find all sorts of info about proteins and carbohydrates and vitamins and what they do, etc. It's all very hard to translate into specific diets.

The common sense approach says that real, human-grade meat is better than unidentified "meat byproducts". It also makes sense that our carnivorous dogs do not need corn and grain fillers. Many people are concerned about preservatives in their own foods - why should your dog be any different?

I am of the opinion that natural foods are better. I just wish I could take my own advice and eat more natural foods myself. Nala eats a much more appropriate diet than anyone else in our family does.

Through my research, I came to realize that there is no "perfect" commercial dog food. How can science be expected to formulate ONE food that when fed to your dog every day of its life will give it everything it needs? This is why some people rotate foods every few months.

I refused to feed my baby formula, and I now refuse to feed my dog kibble for the same reason. Nature is pretty clever. It seems like the more people try to improve on nature, the more we muck it up.


Jamiya

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MistressKela
Member

Posts: 275
From:My IQ is higher than yours, I guarantee it.
Registered: Dec 2003

posted 03-02-2004 09:36 AM     Click Here to See the Profile for MistressKela     Edit/Delete Message
http://www.iamscruelty.com/ http://www.feedmypet.com/dog-food-comparison.html <--Biased but suggests a good product and has an excellent description of the poor ingredients and why they are poor.

Reading the ingredients on a bag of dog food is hard evidence enough really. There are several high quality products on the market that are not expensive. Nutro's Natural Choice seems to be the most common one although it is not the best out there. I use Trader Joes which is a specialty grocery store in only select states but it is $12 for a 20 pound bag.

Easy way to pick a food : Read the label. Put down any food that contains the word "by-product". Put down any food that lists corn as its first ingredient. Put down any food that does not list a meat in the first 4 ingredients. I personally avoid ALL corn of any sort although actual whole kernal corn may be okay. Corn meal and other junk is not in my personal opinion.

On a side note i find it extremely odd that an american bulldog is having an eating problem! Thats typically a toy dog issue.

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MistressKela
Member

Posts: 275
From:My IQ is higher than yours, I guarantee it.
Registered: Dec 2003

posted 03-02-2004 09:42 AM     Click Here to See the Profile for MistressKela     Edit/Delete Message
Oh and there is no "conspiracy". I dont know a single vet that recommends Eukanuba and I do know that all the vets I know sell Science Diet and they all recommend it because they are paid to do so. They have a monopoly over the food industry as they make a complete line of products that are extremely specialized for many different medical problems. There are about 20 of them I think...."h/d" "t/d" "r/d" etc. that no other company really makes. They need to have foods of these types so the easiest and cheapest way for them is to buy everything from one company.

I'll make a comparison here. What operating system do you use? 90% of you just said "windows". Windows is (argueably) not the best product on the market but plain and simple, they run the market. Microsoft has such an incredible stronghold that no other company stands a CHANCE and most likely few are even trying to break into the operating system market.

What other brand of dog food is going to attempt to break into that market and spend all that money putting out a line of post surgery / specialized types of dog food? They simply dont stand a chance at the way things are going at the moment.

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GoodboysBaddogs
Member

Posts: 409
From:Los Angeles, Ca.
Registered: Aug 2003

posted 03-02-2004 09:52 AM     Click Here to See the Profile for GoodboysBaddogs     Edit/Delete Message
Hi Again,

Good Question!!

The WDJ (Whole Dog Jouranl) should be more valid.

Here's the link:
http://www.whole-dog-journal.com/popup2.html

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Maisey
Member

Posts: 1387
From:Portland, Oregon US
Registered: Sep 2003

posted 03-02-2004 10:19 AM     Click Here to See the Profile for Maisey     Edit/Delete Message
Agreed, The Whole Dog Journal does not accept advertising so that they may be impartial in offering their opinions on dog products, they explain their criteria for each thing they offer an opinion on. It's a great place to start.
You will find much debate on dog foods, but your specific needs right now are geared towards finding a healthy food your pup will eat. I suggest going to a small shop that sells quality foods, they always have sample bags that are free. Take one or two of everything and do blind taste tests with him, find which he prefers. Also, ask your vet about using a probiotic, you can add it to his food and it will help his body to utilize the most from the nutrients he does take in. This should help keep weight on him. It's not expensive and simple to apply, I used a powder form, called FastTrack (for dogs), I also use it for my horses.

Choosing a food is important, it's your decision, and I think everyone who is passionate about the topic on this board would agree that the most important part in doing that is researching and making a knowlegeable choice for your dog. I hope he starts eating soon and you can stop worrying.
Maisey

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MistressKela
Member

Posts: 275
From:My IQ is higher than yours, I guarantee it.
Registered: Dec 2003

posted 03-02-2004 10:21 AM     Click Here to See the Profile for MistressKela     Edit/Delete Message
Have any of those articles to copy and paste here for those of us who arent subscribers?

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Maisey
Member

Posts: 1387
From:Portland, Oregon US
Registered: Sep 2003

posted 03-02-2004 10:29 AM     Click Here to See the Profile for Maisey     Edit/Delete Message
ooooo here is a link for you to read that explains probiotics well, this is a site for Great Danes so keep that in mind when reading amounts and some of the info is specifically geared towards that breed. Scroll down to get to the info about probiotics and supplements.

Simple solution idea for you....try adding a teaspoon or two of yogurt to his food, he may find it more palatable, it's good for him and it helps prevent GAS!
http://betamillion.homestead.com/homeopathy.html

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honeybear
Member

Posts: 926
From:
Registered: May 2003

posted 03-02-2004 10:32 AM     Click Here to See the Profile for honeybear     Edit/Delete Message
Atlanta, glad to hear your pup is healthy and looks like just a finiky eater. lots of good info you have been given here. If you get a chance, please do go the the "food for thought" thread as Jimiya suggested, it can be mind boggling reading thru it, but tons of good info. I would do what Maisy suggests and see if you can get several samples of food and try them out to see what he likes best. "And dont do like I did and buy a 40# bag of food my dogs doesnt like" that is still sitting in my pantry. I am assuming you are in Atlanta so you should have a good selection of places to get some of the foods recommended. I would also suggest Innova puppy

And I agree with Jimiya on this:
"It is very difficult to find unbiased information. I also don't consider vets to be "in a conspiracy" with the pet food manufacturers. Sure, there are probably some who are in it just for the money. But for every one of those, there are probably 10 more that have just taken what they were told and what they learned in school as fact, without thinking about it. While this is not responsible, it doesn't make them monsters.
Also, it is a fact that most vets only have to take one class (if even that) in nutrition in vet school. It has just not been an area that has been emphasized. I think vets are more focused on disease than health, if you want my opinion (I believe this about some doctors as well)."

Most just dont concentrate on a proactive approach to nutrition and being healthy. Their concerns are the already sick animals and healing them

honeybear

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