|
|
| Public Forum |
Proceed to Auspet's
New Discussion Forum |
Pet
Directory |
Classifieds
| Home
| LinkXchange
|
 Click here to make Auspet.com your default home page |
|
 Auspet - Message Boards
 Dogs - all types
 help!!! sudden Agressive behavior between dogs!!
|
 UBBFriend: Email This Page to Someone! |
next newest topic | next oldest topic |
| Author | Topic: help!!! sudden Agressive behavior between dogs!! |
|
pip48a New Member  Posts: 7 |
posted 02-29-2004 08:47 PM
 
help, help help. I have a 10 year old spayed female, an 8 year old non-neutered male and a 7 1/2 month old non-neutered male pup. All dogs are mixed breeds, all have chow among their blood lines. 10 year old female has always ruled the roost to the 8 year old male. Introduced the puppy and there was some of the usual pecking order growling and snarling. It was evident that the pup had a dominant nature from the beginning, but all seemed to be working out well. Untill about 3 days ago. The 8 year old male has become very agressive to the puppy. He won't even let him move, he won't let him eat, drink,he is on him constantly. He attacks him viciously, how ever no blood has been drawn. I came home Friday night to the puppy squealing in pain and the older male had him pinned against the back door on his back. The puppy had peed all over the patio. The pup bares his teeth and fights back, when attacked. But he won't even go to the water bowl or food bowls and he won't go outside into the yard. All weekend, I was locking the older dog in a room in the house to take the pup out to do his business and then it took me forever to coerce him out the door. This weekend has been miserable. I have had to keep the older dog by my side most of the weekend. I mean this has been constant all weekend? They we playmates before this!?!? They would wrestle and chase each other. I am at a real lose as to what to do. I have to leave the house to go to work tomorrow morning and honestly I don't know what to do??? The only thing that I can come up with for this change in behavior is that the puppy may have reached an age where his hormones are kicking in, and all of a sudden become a huge threat to the older dog?? But if that is the reason, what do I do?? Separating them is not an easy thing. I don't feel comfortable leaving either of them in the house. I tried a crate tonigh with each of them and they cried and started breathing hard, and sweating and started clawing at the door something awful. God if anybody has any advice, I need it.At best that would only be a short term answer. Help help help. Lois IP: Logged |
|
elizavixen Member  Posts: 160 |
posted 02-29-2004 08:59 PM
It sounds like you need to get at least one of the males neutered. My guess is that is what is causing the problem, two males. IP: Logged |
|
pip48a New Member Posts: 7 |
posted 02-29-2004 09:18 PM
Are you saying that you just can't have two non-neutered males?? I had a neutered male, when I got the 8 year old male ( he was only 4 or 5 months old) they were very competitive and showed it by mounting each other and spraying all over. There was some growling and snarling, but nothing like this. I acutually had to keep the 8 year old male, then younger, outside. After the other dog died I brought him in the house. I guess I am just not confident that neutering will do it. But you may be right. IP: Logged |
|
Jamiya Member Posts: 1392 |
posted 03-01-2004 04:11 AM
I don't know if it would eliminate the problem or not, but it has the potential to help and it can't hurt. They are mixed breeds, so what's the point in not neutering them? Dogs are healthier and happier when altered, and it prevents accidental puppies. I would definitely get both of them neutered and see if it helps. If the problem continues afterward, I would find a good behaviorist to come to your house and work with them. Definitely do NOT leave them alone together!! You're going to have to put one in another room while you are at work. Or is there a neighbor that could take the pup, or a doggie daycare?
IP: Logged |
|
elizavixen Member Posts: 160 |
posted 03-01-2004 06:29 AM
I'm not saying that in general you can't have two non-neutered males but in your case, it obviously isn't working. Some males (neutered & non-neutered) are just not going to get along with other males. I think it would be best to neuter at least the younger one. I know if you neuter them later in life they keep some of the "male" tendencies. But neutering does calm them down. I had one male who was like this and we eventually got him neutered. He still didn't like other males but he was much less aggressive. IP: Logged |
|
pip48a New Member Posts: 7 |
posted 03-02-2004 06:45 PM
I had both dogs in last night. They started to interact like play but the dominating type of play but it all went on ok, because the younger dog was subserviant. We made it through the night with no fighting. This morning I was sitting here at the computer and they were both sleeping with thier heads together, right next to each other. They are both at my feet like that now. Today I came home for lunch and I walked outside with both of them. The older dog let the younger dog run across the yard. I thought we are making progress and got a little too comfortable. The next thing I know they are fighting again. The older dog has the younger pinned on the ground with his mouth around his throat. I manage to stop him with voice commands, but the pup didn't stop. He is not as well trained as the older dog. But he finally did stop. I put the older dog back in the house and the others outside. This separation just increases his anxiety. When I came home I was determined to leave the older dog outside tonight. It is like pouring rain here. But he has a whole garage to settle in with rugs on the floor. This is a dog that normally like to sleep outside sometimes, he chooses to. He sat at the back door and barked and cried. The younger dog went to the door and started scratching on the door and crying. So here they are crying to get to each other. If I turn my back they will be trying to kill each other. I let the older dog in and I will spend another night on pins and needles. I am at my wits end. I think that I must try to find another home for the puppy. IP: Logged |
|
winnie Member Posts: 107 |
posted 03-02-2004 07:13 PM
please please dont rehome your puppy before you at least try nuetering him. It might work and he might not seem as so much of a threat to your 8 year old if he is nuetered. If they got along fine before this stuff happened maybe it was because he hadn't reached puberty or maturity yet and was not a threat to your older dog then. But maybe if you just got the puppy nuetered they will get along agian. goodluck I hope it all works out for you. [This message has been edited by winnie (edited 03-02-2004).] IP: Logged |
|
elizavixen Member Posts: 160 |
posted 03-02-2004 08:23 PM
I sort of agree. Obviously you don't want any major fighting going on between them but I really feel the neutering has a lot to do with it. Also, the older male is probably trying to teach the puppy that he is the boss. I don't really know how to say it right. A few years ago, I had an older, unneutered male dog and we got a new unneutered male puppy. There was no real fighting but I do remember on several occasions the older male pinning the puppy, putting him in his place so to speak. IP: Logged |
|
Karriesue Member Posts: 277 |
posted 03-02-2004 09:49 PM
There is a really good chance that these dogs can get along eventually. First off, I would get the pup neutered. Second of all, get a dog behaviorist to come in and help you. You can have them evaluated and the behaviorist will be able to work with you on the problem. The fact that they can get along says alot. It could be puppy hormones happening cause he is maturing (teen years). Before you give the pup away, work with them and see if the problem can be solved. IP: Logged |
|
susan_cude@hotmail.com Member Posts: 813 |
posted 03-02-2004 09:49 PM
Oh My! You sure have your hands full! I'm sorry to hear that. Getting the pup fixed is probably the way to go here... I hope you have a better night tonight... Keep us posted, Susan IP: Logged |
|
Jamiya Member Posts: 1392 |
posted 03-03-2004 04:36 AM
I have been told that there will always be disagreements between dogs in a multi-dog household. Their fights can look and sound very scary, but a lot of times it is mostly show. Usually, dogs do not harm each other even when they sound like they are. My sister's dogs got into a big fight a month or so ago. She thought the young, large Golden was going to kill her creaky old medium-sized mix (and there was a third dog involved just to make things interesting), but there was not a scratch on any of them when all was done. And she did not separate them - she did not feel safe and her kids were in the room so she let them work it out (of course, she was standing next to them screaming at them - but I don't think that was useful). I can't see your dogs and I am not telling you that you should just let them "fight it out". But a trained behaviorist should be able to watch them and evaluate them and then show you how to work with them. And a behaviorist would be able to teach you what to look for so you know when to break them up and when to leave them be. They DO have to establish a pack order. If they both want to be dominant, then someone has to eventually be convinced to back down. Neutering one or both (I would do both, personally) is a good first step.
IP: Logged |
|
pip48a New Member Posts: 7 |
posted 03-03-2004 06:50 AM
thank you all for your input. My first instinct was to let the dogs work it out. In fact one of the reasons that I took them outside together yesterday was because I was considering leaving them all outside in the yard yesterday afternoon. I changed my mind when I saw the fight. But, you are right about there not really being any damage to either dog. For all of the fighting, there has not been one drop of blood drawn. The truth is I cannot afford, neutering, a behaviorist or a vet bill right now! That is part of my problem. I ended up putting the older dog out last night, he sat by the back door and cried and barked most of the night. I have a feeling that I have already made this worse by interfereing. There is a part of me that just wants to put them all in the yard today like I always have and see what happens while I am at work. It may be the sorriest thing I ever done. God, I just don't know? IP: Logged |
|
puggleowner Member Posts: 228 |
posted 03-03-2004 07:17 AM
No no no - please do not leave them alone all day if you think they may fight- that is not only irresponsible on the part of the owner but places the dogs in potential immediate danger. I hate to sound like a "lecturer," but if you can't afford to neuter either your older dog or your new one, maybe you shouldn't have gotten a new puppy.....I understand not being able to afford the extra stuff, like a behavorist or a trainer, but fixing your dog is almost a basic necessity, and one that you should be prepared to carry out when getting a new dog, unless you are a breeder. Maybe talk to your vet about possibly working out a payment plan for the surgeries, and in the mean time you should keep the dogs separated when you are not around. I f none of this is possible, then maybe it is better to find a new home for the pup, for the well-being of all the dogs involved. IP: Logged |
|
susan_cude@hotmail.com Member Posts: 813 |
posted 03-03-2004 08:23 AM
Puggle, that was very well put! the reason I even say anything is: there is a right way and a wrong way to say the same thing, and you took the right way!!! We know why i say this!!! Pip, Call around to different Vets and see what kind of deal you can strike with them. Or try your local SPCA often times they do sex altering at a very low cost. You would be surprized how many vets will be willing to help you with a payment plan or even charging a small amount. And like Puggle said: if you can in no way afford this! perhaps a new home is best for the little guy. This is not a slam against you in any way! sometimes we bite off more than we can chew because we have big hearts and want to help more animals than we can afford to raise. I hope all went better today for you! Sincerely, Susan IP: Logged |
|
winnie Member Posts: 107 |
posted 03-03-2004 08:31 AM
I noticed that it says you live in Yucca Valley..I am not extacly sure were that is but If you are willing to drive to the San Fernanado Valley in the end of march my school is going to have a spay and nueter clininc...it is by donation but they even said if you dont have the money then you can get spays and nueters done for free...A real Vet will be doing the procedure with a liscend Vet Tech and the students are just going to do the medication, supervised of course. Agian I do not know how far away Yucca Valley is but starting in the end of March they will be having these clinincs two days a week.(for at least a month) If you are interested i can give you the number to make an appt. Agian it is FREE if you cant afford a donation, and they will even do both your dogs if you like. In fact if anyone lives around the San Fernando Valley and is interested just let me know and i will post the number so you can call and make an appt. I hope this helps IP: Logged |
|
susan_cude@hotmail.com Member Posts: 813 |
posted 03-03-2004 11:32 PM
HOW NICE OF YOU! WINNIE IP: Logged |
|
pip48a New Member Posts: 7 |
posted 03-04-2004 07:14 AM
I think that we have made some progress, think is the operative word here. I guess only time will tell. I left the dogs together in the yard yesterday. I came home at lunch, terrified of what I would find. But, no one was hurt. All the dogs were waiting for me as they used to. The puppy is being dominated by the older dog, there is no question about that. I let them all in the house when I got home and the older dog did the usual stuff his head over the pups back and restricting his movement around the house there were a couple of growls through out the evening, but no fights. They both slept together on the floor by my bed. They are laying together again, at my feet. I made sure that at some point I let the older dog outside and made sure the pup ate and drank while he was absent. I gave the pup time outside in the yard also to do his business. I am leaving them again today. The pup is learning his place in the pack. I have looked in to what my options are for neutering. But, it will be a while before I can do this. I recognize that I have been criticized for getting the pup without the wear with all to neuter. I am only going to say that I was stuck with the pup, I did not choose to get him. It wasn't in my budget to afford another dog. But, he is here, and I am doing my level best to handle it. I was raised by a father that grew up on a farm, breaking horses sometimes for a living. He rode a horse to school! Animals were a part of thier lives in a way that today's society would not understand. I cannot remember a time in my childhood that we did not have at least one dog. I was taught that you must have respect for the dogs world, which is very different from ours. For instance, I would never own dogs if I lived in an apartment. Only with a large secure yard would I have a dog. In much of the reading that I have done, it is recommended that you do not interfere in any way with the establishment of position in the pack. Some dogs will fight to the death for position, it is the way that it is. I believe that you can train, and establish your own position in the pack, but I don't believe that you can train the nature or natural insticts out of a dog. In the wild, a dog that cannot accept position in the pack, may leave the pack and find another, or be thrown out of the pack. I don't think that my problems are over here, by any means. I think the puppy is accepting his position, kind of, for the moment. As he gets older bigger and stronger, I think he will challenge that position again. Neutering may help somewhat, but his nature is that of a dominate dog. When he is bigger and stronger, the fights will be more dangerous to both dogs. I am not sure what I am going to do long term. I have put some things in place to rehome him and to neuter him. I need to find a good home for him. That may take some time. If I can neuter before I find a home. I will do that. I know that most of the reply's that I have recieved are that training and crating can change this. I have never been convinced that crating is good for a dog. I guess I never will. I feel that it is more, for the owners than the dogs. It is a sign of our times, in that the structure of our lives aren't conducive to having animals the way it used to be. I guess whatever each of us is comfortable with and what the dog gets used to so we can have our pets is the right thing to do. You have all been so much help to me, I can't tell you how much I appreciate all the input. I will keep you updated on how things are going. Lois IP: Logged |
All times are ET (US) | next newest topic | next oldest topic |
  |
|
Contact Us | Auspet.com
Ultimate Bulletin Board 5.45c
| Home | Contact us | Advertise here | Jobs at Auspet | |
| © 1999-2017 AusPet.com |