posted 03-02-2004 06:46 AM         

But I would rather see people educated about how to choose a breeder than a list of "good" and "bad" breeders. As Jas said, things change and someone who may have been good in the past might have decided to cut corners and be not-so-good anymore.

If you know how to choose a breeder wisely, go and visit the place, know what to look for, what questions to ask, etc. - THAT is the sort of education people need. And you can always ask for references as well.

Jamiya

posted 03-03-2004 10:34 AM         

San Diego Poodle Club + a list of references as well as being on at least two websites referring people to poodle breeders led me to overpaying for an animal that was grossly misrepresented and possibly not even what it was claimed to be. When concerns arose I was ACCUSED of stunting my poodles growth by CRATE TRAINING my dog. Despite all my pleas and requests for help I was given flat out refusals to everything from refunds, partial refunds, even refused a meetup to see the animal in question and on top of all that...refused assistance in placing the animal or getting poodle rescue contacts. No rude words were exchanged at all and after 3 concerned emails I was completely and still am, completely ignored by this woman who only cared about getting my money and then never looking back. Thats a very rough overview of a very very sad experience with a horrid woman who comes RECOMMENDED by a poodle club.

posted 03-03-2004 10:43 AM         

You say that people can make up references. Exactly! They can make untrue claims, in other words.

Here's another way to look at it: You want to see a bad breeder list. Let's have a good breeder list. Oh, but why not? Because bad breeders could put themselves on it. Or get others to do it for them. Much in the same way as those references you are talking about.

Here's my point: People should not be allowed to make UNSUBSTANTIATED claims on websites with impunity. Now if you're talking about some kind of organization that checks out claims of bad breeders and notifies authorities whenever poor practices are in place, and posts the breeders on a website, that's perhaps a different story.

posted 03-03-2004 10:48 AM         

Any joe bloe can post information here about anything that they want here on this website. Someone could come here and claim that it really is health to feed dogs a good dose of onions every day in their food and the possibility is there that someone unknowing might read that and follow that advice. Just because the possibility for bad information to appear on an advice website for dogs is there...doesnt mean the website shouldnt exist.

posted 03-03-2004 12:22 PM         

"Any joe bloe can post information here about anything that they want here on this website."

--Yes, but this is an informal public website. Anyone should check out claims here if they seem dubious. It's another thing entirely to have a website listing breeders without checking on claims and inviting the public at large to place anyone on the list.

"Bad breeders are already ON good breeder lists."

-- There you go again, making my point exactly!!!

And I'm not sure, but I suspect that the moderators here would not allow people to come on here and start naming breeders, with their addresses and phone numbers, that they're not happy with.

I had another quote of yours to comment on, but it seems to have been edited out, so I'll leave that alone.

posted 03-03-2004 12:48 PM         

And MistressKela - I don't know the particulars of what happened to you with your poodle or how knowledgeable you are of the breed (no offense intended - I just don't know what you know, you know?). Anyway. If someone like Raindigger had helped you pick out your poodle, do you think it would have made a difference in the outcome?

posted 03-03-2004 01:21 PM         

quote:

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There IS no decent way of finding anything out about a breeder UNLESS you go by word of mouth from someone you KNOW. First off you have to find someone with a particular breed of dog that you want. Secondly you only get a single opinion about one breeder. Who gives you the references? The breeder? Dont you think that breeder has those references plotted out??

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From your comments and negativity you appear to have a lot of animosity towards ALL breeders, which is getting a little tiresome. Not all breeders intend to "scam" the buyer or produce substandard sickly dogs. Certainly it doesn't take a brain surgeon to research a breed first, and then do one's homework about what to look for in a reputable breeder i.e: http://www.dog-play.com/ethics.html http://www.geocities.com/Petsburgh/Farm/5324/Responsible.html http://warrentonkc.tripod.com/tentips.htm http://www.geocities.com/Petsburgh/Fair/1901/chart.html http://www.angelfire.com/vt/curlycoats/puppy1.html
meet the breeder, have a list of questions, view their dogs and premises and most of all go with GUT INSTINCT. Another way to find out info is talk with fellow owners of the intended breed. Word of mouth goes far, people are quick to tell their experience good and bad. Take it another step further only select breeders involved in performance/conformation/working, and those belonging to their breed club (contact Club secretary for breeders list) who are members in good standing. READ over the breed clubs Code of Ethics - background check the breeder & their practices. Check health registries such as OFA and for their dogs. When you meet the breeders ask to see health certifications.

The information mentioned needs to be looked at and taken in as a whole (plus I am sure I am missing a few things prob. covered in the links). It does no good if a buyer selects only one or two things to check on.

posted 03-03-2004 09:13 PM         

Yes...a service like that WOULD be very helpful and if commonly used would hopefully put breeders in their corner pricewise and ideally over time...force more truthfullness into the entire market. A service like that in time I think *could* be something to curb pet store sales, something which I said has no real chance of declining right now. If someone else does the looking and haggling for you, that would make it equally as easy to go through that as it would to pick out a pup from a pet store which is a pet stores only real advantage over breeders. Convenience.

Jas - I've already taken all of the necessary steps including contacting the poodle club regarding the breeder. Any breeder with any sort of brain on her shoulders can "stage" (if she isnt already a good breeder" all the necessary elements one is looking for when they actually arrive to check the place out. In regards to the nail clipping incident that was merely the only thing completely out of place in the "picture". Secondly could have been the incorrect information about the animals weight when picked up.

I think bad in my case at the LEAST, aside from the lying and misrepresenting and overcharging, was the lady not standing behind her dogs. Once the dog was out the door...you're on your own and she is no longer giving and sharing of the advice and no longer caring what happens with the animal. Its a good thing I never wanted the registration papers I was promised because they sure wont ever make it to my house.

posted 03-04-2004 10:09 PM         

quote:

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Any breeder with any sort of brain on her shoulders can "stage" (if she isnt already a good breeder" all the necessary elements one is looking for when they actually arrive to check the place out. In regards to the nail clipping incident that was merely the only thing completely out of place in the "picture". Secondly could have been the incorrect information about the animals weight when picked up.

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I'm sorry, I doubt most shady breeders are willing to go to such lengths pretending be reputable. It would much easier and productive to put the time into becoming the Breeder they should be instead of faking it. I really can't see bad breeders conjuring up a false front to *that* degree just to "appear" reputable.

An informed and educated buyer also has gut instincts, surely there would be something that was not quite right. Not everyone can be fooled. A lot of people do do their homework-----completely!!!

quote:

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Why the attitude towards bad breeders? Nobody has introduced me to a good one. Maybe they only breed labs. I don't want a lab so maybe I'll never have an experience with one.

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Maybe you just haven't looked hard enough...