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Author Topic:   books on dogs/ethics?
cybbogirl
New Member

Posts: 5
From:barrington, IL
Registered: Oct 2003

posted 02-23-2004 09:01 AM     Click Here to See the Profile for cybbogirl     Edit/Delete Message
hey guys,
just curious as to wther or not anyone might have info on where i can get a book that discusses the history or evolvement of the canine? recently my brother and i have gotten into several debates regarding whether or not dogs (or animals in general)are beings with real feeling who long for many of the comforts that humans have. he claims that i and ppl like me, are irrational individuals who don't understand that dogs are a species that we have come to baby and domesticate, irrationally so.
i have become very interested in this topic because i love my dog very much as though i could love another person (like one loves a child or a sister). and i am now questioning whether or not my babying of my dog is unnatural or not or whether it is making my dog have a harder time adusting to when he cant get what he wants.
have we raised dogs to crave this? i guess that is his main argument. have we made dogs want all the love and attention? is it in their nature??

post your thoughts if you have a second! and also, lemme know where i might find some literature on this.

thanks!

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dukesdad
Member

Posts: 117
From:Houston, TX
Registered: Nov 2003

posted 02-23-2004 09:34 AM     Click Here to See the Profile for dukesdad     Edit/Delete Message
Interesting topic.
First of all dogs are pack animals and their human families are their pack. Many of the common traits that dogs express to their human family are extensions of the pack characteristics, like face licking. If the dog can't be the leader, the alpha, then it is perfectly content to be the follower. Dogs and wolves in the wild all want love and affection from their pack family.
Of course the difference with our family dogs is that they are not required to hunt for food. Even so, most dogs are happiest when they can earn their food in other ways like retrieving, herding etc.
I believe, from years of personal interaction with my dogs, that dogs not only have many very identifiable emotional feelings but also naturally empathize with their human counterpart's feelings. This to me is an indication of a very high intelligence level and that is also why dogs make such great companions.
My old Lab used to get into trouble occasionally by tearing up any piece of paper he would find. If I found a pile of chewed up paper I would call him and ask "Who did this?" He would show this most incredible guilty expression with squinting eyes and ears curled back. I never had a camera handy to get a photo of this look so one day I got my camera ready then tore up a small pile of paper on the floor. All set I called to Jake and asked my usual question "Who did this?" He just looked at the pile then walked away unfazed and I could almost hear him say "Not me". He knew the difference between right and wrong. A big indication of civility.
Somebody please answer this question. How is it that dogs can understand complicated human speach but we cannot understand one word of bark? Who is the more intelligent here?

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Jamiya
Member

Posts: 1392
From:
Registered: Sep 2003

posted 02-23-2004 09:43 AM     Click Here to See the Profile for Jamiya     Edit/Delete Message
I enjoyed a book called "The Truth About Dogs," by Stephen Budiansky. He addresses topics such as those that you mentioned.

Naturally, no one can *prove* whether dogs and other animals have the same feelings, etc, that humans do. Any information you read you must temper with your own knowledge and experience and decide what to believe for yourself.

It seems pretty obvious to me, however, that animals do have emotions. What they are probably lacking as compared to humans, however, are certain logical processes and things like self-awareness and the ability to think about one's thoughts or feelings.

One must be careful in treating a dog like a human being. What is thought of as "bad" or "good" or "logical" to us isn't necessary shared by a dog. Dogs are coming from a different point of view.

For instance, a human being might think "it's not fair" to always be the last to eat and have to move whenever Mr. Alpha Dog says so, but from a dog's point of view, it is a natural way the world is and there are many dogs that don't WANT to be in charge (of course, this is true of humans as well).

Anyway, for myself, I do believe dogs have emotions and want some of the same things people do - comfort, security, fun, etc. But I also try to be careful and not assign some "want" to my dog just because it is something I would want if I were in her situation. You have to try to be objective and not anthropomorphize.

Another good book for people who care about their relationship with their dog is "Bones Would Rain From the Sky," by Suzanne Clothier. "The Other End of the Leash," by Patricia McConnell, was also a good read.


Jamiya

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Jamiya
Member

Posts: 1392
From:
Registered: Sep 2003

posted 02-23-2004 09:45 AM     Click Here to See the Profile for Jamiya     Edit/Delete Message
Dukesdad - the "bark" is not used as words, like human speech. That's why we can't undertand it! I think it is more of a marker that tells other dogs to go look, or be on alert, or something. Dogs primarily use non-verbal means to communicate.


Jamiya

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