posted 02-11-2004 11:52 PM         

MistressKela..I understand what you are saying about colors, but in some breeds dilute colors, excessive white etc can cause genetic problems that will be carried on, and degrade the breed as a whole. A good case in point would be the white Doberman. People are so geared towards the new fashionable color or pattern or size they often don't consider what it will mean in the long run. I am guilty of loving the unusual colors and patterns, take a look at my dogs...but I don't want people to purposely breed excessive white catahoulas because they are flashy and will sell better, and I want educated people who understand the genetic consequences of breeding those dogs to be the ones who keep the breed alive and well.

Just a side note...I would be way more excited watching a show that had Poodles showing hunting skills than showing off huge hair dos. I wish they would do that!
Just my two cents

posted 02-12-2004 09:10 AM         

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The biggest flaw I can see with saying the standard is the healthiest or best working version of the animal...is the fact that they limit the colors that an animal can be.

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posted 02-12-2004 11:05 AM         

I'm not defending conformation shows - I do think they contribute to a lot of bad things done to dogs in the name of "beauty". I am simply pointing out the other side of the coin.

posted 02-13-2004 12:13 PM         

I highly disagree that color is of no importance that is an uninformed statement.

A Ridgeback too light would not camouflage in the African terrain. These dogs are game hunters and family protectors where they are still used today. A black dog would attract too much heat and lack in performance. HENCE limit my breeds function, or should I rephrase that, limit one function of my breed.

posted 02-13-2004 06:12 PM         

150 Pounds!!!! wow !!! That is huge! Must have been a cross...... Mine usually weigh 65-95 pounds and have full tail (Viszlas usually have a 3/4 tail but are smaller than ridgebacks). A ridgeback doing fly ball...........hmmm that i would like to see! I'd be lucky to get my dogs to play ball or fetch more than twice. They like playing keep away on the other hand

I haven't transferred most of my photos from my other computer so I just have a few photos which you can see here:
http://f2.pg.photos.yahoo.com/ph/jazzied2/my_photos

posted 02-13-2004 06:28 PM         

Yes, I am well aware of the politics and the many "show people" not worth associating with, just as there are many NON Show people who have messed up breeds and breed with little to no regard to health.

Goob's comment is an excellent idea, dogs should also need to pass a "working" trial of some sort to qualify for a conformation Champion. Not all breeds have divided into working and show - sometimes its necessary to look beyond a breed we are familiar with in order to see this. For me there is no sense in having a pretty dog dumber than a doorknob, nor having a "purebred" if it can do its job but looks NOTHING like the breed its supposed to be. I've seen each of these and I have also seen the complete package. I would rather a breeder participate in showing as well as opposed to disregarding the standard. As a person involved in many aspects of the dog fancy the COMPLETE PACKAGE is what I strive for and what makes it all worthwhile. I find it incredibly insulting that someone can criticize the sport as a "beauty pageant" Go a head and condemn but without these fanciers there likely wouldn't be any of the breeds in existence today. For the record showing takes effort, time, and training, ever notice many of the dogs are in top physical condition with proper musculation and skeletal structure? And the handler has have a connection with and train the dog to respond.

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A show dog is nothing more than some nice looking dogs mating with a whole lotta luck that they get the right traits.

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. Do not blanket me with the BYB's you know. You have no idea. many of us try to do our darnedest to breed as close to the standard as possible. Obviously there’s no such thing as perfection and standards are open to interpretation and I realize there will probably always be dichotomy between show and working types. But I dislike it when individuals run the dog fancy down choose a side and only superficially look at the other side without a full understanding.

posted 02-15-2004 07:15 PM         

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The ridgebacks at a dog show Jas...are FAR from roaming the african terrain or whatever it was that you said that they were originally bred for.

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Really?? Sorry but I have to laugh at this fallacy!!
May I ask how you seem to know this? DO you know the breed? Their purposes? Have you analyzed ridgebacks for their abilities? Obviously not or you would know they are still vastly used to hunt large game, bay, herd, protect and numerous other things regardless of location. Have you spoken extensively with breeders who have imported African dogs (who by the way look very much like the AMERICAN dogs IN shows and households today.....) please tell me about when you accompanied AMERICAN breeders on their trips to Africa. I don't know the dogs that you have been around but the ones I show in the ring have maintained their conformation & natural ability and are phenomenal hunters. The breed is not that old, and I have photos from past decades that go right back to the 1920's. See for yourself, similar dogs??? I think SO! http://f2.pg.photos.yahoo.com/ph/jazzied2/detail?.dir=/7d15&.dnm=355a.jpg

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Maybe if it was a world kennel competition....traits such as color would matter.

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I'm sorry but I don't understand your apparent knowledge on this subject. And how a "world kennel competition" (what ever you mean by that) is even relevant to color.

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the A in AKC stands for American...and 95% of our purebred dogs that were bred for these exotic purposes ...are now nothing more than housepets.

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The A in the AKC adopted the FCI standard, and American or South African they are still the same dog. What is exotic about Hunting, Baying, Herding, Tracking & Protection? My dogs are family pets before anything else. But versatile, as we also and show & do performance including agility, obedience, tracking, coursing. I guess its just LUCK they happen to excel in the aforementioned areas.

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And the luck part....obviously you can increase your chance of getting a show dog by breeding show champions. How the DNA comes together and which traits are inherited from where...is still luck.

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You weren't talking about DNA & genetics. You were talking about "nice looking dogs mating".

Like I said a bit O luck.... but you seem not to be able to understand there are other things a *good* breeder takes into consideration, and does incredible research on before deciding to get so lucky.

posted 02-16-2004 06:27 AM         

Naturally, there are responsible breeders who attempt to breed for working traits and temperament in their conformation show dogs. But even these breeders face a challenge because of the limited gene pool available to them due to the AKC requirement that both parents be registered dogs in the same breed in order to register the pups. Some breeds that have a lot of members aren't affected too much, but those breeds with a small number of dogs (or those "revived" from a small number of dogs) do not have a large enough gene pool and so the problems of inbreeding get worse and worse.

He also goes into genetic testing and possible solutions that work a whole lot better than things like x-rays for dysplastic dogs, etc. Hopefully breeders and researchers will take note.

Jamiya

posted 02-16-2004 08:46 AM         

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Ridgeback too light would not camouflage in the African terrain.

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And when I said exotic purposes...I was referring to activities in such restricted areas and certain climates that would dictate which colors they could or could not be. The american ridgeback has no reason to be only one color. The only reason I can see it staying that one color...is if changing it created skin problems for whatever reason.

Id like someone to give me a reason that a parti colored poodle is "not allowed". According to the AKC it is a non sporting breed anyways...so by that categorization..all non sporting breeds should be allowed to come in any and all colors imagineable since the AKC has not deemed them to be animals with any function.