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Author Topic:   HELP
Jamiya
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posted 02-04-2004 01:54 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for Jamiya     Edit/Delete Message
Is anyone online? Please go to the chat if you are.


Jamiya

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honeybear
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posted 02-04-2004 01:55 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for honeybear     Edit/Delete Message
sorryy Jimiya, but I havnt a clue on how to get ont he chat
honeybear

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Jamiya
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posted 02-04-2004 01:57 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for Jamiya     Edit/Delete Message
LOL, I can't find it now either.

The new dog just attacked Nala. She went into his crate. He doesn't like his crate but apparently it is HIS. I had to drag him out by his hips. I put him outside. Now what do I do?


Jamiya

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Rene
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From:Oakley, CA 94561 USA
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posted 02-04-2004 02:00 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for Rene     Edit/Delete Message
Go to the bottom of this page it says enter chat

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honeybear
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posted 02-04-2004 02:26 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for honeybear     Edit/Delete Message
Rene, I dont have that option on my screen.

Jimiya, oh no, sounds like he may have a
territorial problem.
I sorry I dont know a thing about this but you will get plenty of help here.
honeybear

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Rene
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From:Oakley, CA 94561 USA
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posted 02-04-2004 02:42 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for Rene     Edit/Delete Message
hi honeybear,

if you go all the way to the bottom of this screen there should be in blue letters chat right under the number of vistors after all the add's hmm wonder why you dont see it??

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Jamiya
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posted 02-04-2004 02:57 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for Jamiya     Edit/Delete Message
He just did it again. I'm not sure why. he might have thought I had food.

Maisey said he is just establishing his position, but shouldn't he stop when she backs down? This time he was snarling and biting and she was trying to get away and screaming and he didn't back off. I had him dragging a leash since the last time and so I pulled him off her. He didn't go after me at all, which is good. I chucked him outside again.

It may just be typical shelter dog resource issues, but I don't think I can handle that. I got him because he was so mellow and gentle. Last night I took a bone from his mouth, handed it to Nala, and gave him another one and he was totally fine with it.

I am waiting for a call back from the behaviorist at the shelter who worked with him. Maybe he just needs to be an only dog.


Jamiya

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charmedagain
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From:uk
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posted 02-04-2004 03:41 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for charmedagain     Edit/Delete Message
Hi jamiya he should have stopped once nala backed down as she is then showing submission it does not sound good i have to agree sounds like he really should be an only pet.

mike

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Jamiya
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posted 02-04-2004 03:44 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for Jamiya     Edit/Delete Message
The woman at the shelter finally called me back and she says to let them work it out for a few days. But now Nala is terrified of him and there is a spot of blood on her foot.

I can't get him back tonight before they close. My husband is no use since he didn't really want another dog to begin with. I don't know what to do. I feel sick.

I have him on lead and am watching them closely.


Jamiya

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charmedagain
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From:uk
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posted 02-04-2004 03:51 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for charmedagain     Edit/Delete Message
I bet she's terried i am sure i would be too. Its not the sort of thing you would really expect after he been ok.
Think the signs of him being territorial was when he went for the cats.

Hope you and nala are ok.

mike

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Jamiya
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posted 02-04-2004 04:12 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for Jamiya     Edit/Delete Message
It's killing me. He is such a sweetie. I sat down next to him and he curled up in my lap. He happily does tricks whenever you ask him to. Maybe I do just need to give them time. I know territorial dogs can be worked with, but I'm not ready to deal with that sort of thing. That's why I chose a dog so carefully.


Jamiya

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Jas

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posted 02-04-2004 06:06 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for Jas     Edit/Delete Message
Oh Jamiya, sorry to hear that. How did you introduce the two of them? What were their initial reactions?

Have you taken them out for walks together? A good way to allow them to get to know each other is with leashed walks (get hubby to walk Nala ) in a neutral area. I find leashed walks a very un-confrontaional way for them to be together. I would keep them separated most of the time at home for now, and when they are together no food, toys, treats but postive happy voice tones from you. Also he could be protective of you and maybe if Nala came to close he was jealous (MINE) He is older too right? Perhaps he is putting Nala in her place. Has he postured Nala or given any signs she may be ignoring? or do the attacks come completely out of nowhere? Does he seem dominant or fearful of Nala at all?

Sometimes it takes a few days or a few weeks for them to work things out. If everything is okay with him physically they should be able to work things out - I hope!!!

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Jamiya
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posted 02-04-2004 07:35 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for Jamiya     Edit/Delete Message
They were introduced at a room in the shelter and observed by a behaviorist. They also got to play outside in an enclosure. She has always submissed to him and never challenged him at all. He is definitely the dominant one.

At home, I had them on leash in the front yard together, then put them in the backyard loose. They played. They were inside together all evening and were fine, as well as in the morning. It all started going wrong this afternoon.

He gets VERY agitated around the cats now. If he sees them he goes NUTS.

I talked with a behaviorist at the shelter for a while. She knows him well and thinks he will be fine once he settles down. She suggested what you did, Jas - limited, controlled contact for a few days.

I am still very worried. He gets so agitated when he sees the cat, and Nala is fearful of him now. She has never been a shy and fearful dog and I don't want her to start to be now. It takes a lot of work to undo that kind of damage.

If he goes back to the shelter he will probably be put down. Rescue refused him but they were given incorrect information. I may be able to get him into rescue if I don't tell them he is the same dog. The shelter worker said she would help me. She almost adopted him when he was a puppy, his first time in the shelter.

But hopefully it won't come to that. I am going to try and see how it goes, but if it is harming Nala or the cats I will have to find a home for him. I won't let him be put down.


Jamiya

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Jamiya
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posted 02-04-2004 08:10 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for Jamiya     Edit/Delete Message
I can't do this. He just did it again. They have been separated since the last incident. Just now I put them together in the same room but not interacting. I rewarded the new guy for acting properly. They were both dragging leashes but not restrained in any way. And he went for her for no reason at all - no food, no toys, no attention from me - nothing. There was nothing he was guarding and no provocation from her.

I am going to try to get him into rescue tomorrow. I just can't do this to Nala.


Jamiya

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susan_cude@hotmail.com
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From:Santa Maria, Ca.
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posted 02-04-2004 11:25 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for susan_cude@hotmail.com     Edit/Delete Message
Oh Jamiya, I'm so sorry to hear that! He's such a beautiful dog, but perhaps you're right! he needs to be an only pet for someone. Because he was in the shelter, he may have come from an abbusive home back down the line somewhere. I'm so sad for you! but like you said, the cat and Nala should not have to pay the price for the new dog. They were there first, I'm just sorry it had to come to this. And you don't want Nala to become fearful of other dogs, she should be the protector of your family. Please keep me posted as to what you do with him.

Maybe it was supposed to be a Golden in your future after all.

Susan

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charmedagain
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posted 02-05-2004 01:47 AM     Click Here to See the Profile for charmedagain     Edit/Delete Message
Hi jamiya i am so sorry that your having to give him up i feel for you nala and the cats.
I am having a similar problem with toby and mitzy she has become very protective of me and if toby comes near me mitzy is attacking him she will sit on my lap and whichever direction toby comes to see me thats it she is at him.

I spoke to my mum about it and she is saying it would be safer to find him a new home as mitzy is getting worse in her attacks on him.

This is a side of her i have never seen she is such a loving smart dog she is great with my other dogs coming near me just not him. He has done nothing for her to protect me over maybe its because she is my baby and now there is a new dog in the family she dont like it.

When out in the back yard he will go after my neighbours cats he has even stood and barked and growled at the neighbours all they did was walk to there door.

I really dont know what to do. Should i leave it and hope she calms down or do you agree it would be safer to find him a new home any suggestions would be great.

mike

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Jamiya
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posted 02-05-2004 03:53 AM     Click Here to See the Profile for Jamiya     Edit/Delete Message
A lot of people have told me to give it time and let them work it out. But with Nala being the submissive dog, it makes it even harder. I think I may be able to try it out longer if the new guy was the one being picked on. But I just can't risk making Nala fearful or getting injured. And he gets SO agitated when he sees a cat. He growled at one from his crate last night and it was NOT a play growl.

Rescue has no foster homes but will list him for me. I am going to call some other cities and see if they have room in foster homes right away. The shelter worker said she will help me, so maybe one of them can take him for a few days while we figure something out.

I really hate to have this guy bounce around any more than he already has. I guess it was a big mistake for me to take him home, but it seemed so perfect! I tried to do everything right.

Mike, I don't know what to tell you about Toby. Is there a behaviorist you can call to come evaluate and advise?

Some dogs are just happier rehomed. They generally will slide right into a new pack without too much trouble, although if they are bounced around too much it's not good for them.

I feel for you in your decision. I cried all day yesterday.


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charmedagain
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posted 02-05-2004 04:44 AM     Click Here to See the Profile for charmedagain     Edit/Delete Message
Hi jamiya i really know how your feeling. A friend of mine that trains dogs been round and he said that mitzy see's toby as a threat thinks he is going to attack me. He keeps looking at through the top of his eyes he has a look of a dog thats going to attack.
He never makes full eye contact.
My mum does not trust him and my friend deffo does not as soon as he came to the house the dog was barking and growling and he watched his every movement.

I am getting worried even though he seems good round kids i have my 3yearld brother stay with me some weekends and i am worried incase the dog attacks him i dont think he would but its not a chance i really want to take.

How is nala at the moment?
She must be terrified as well as you with the way he attacked her with no provication.
I am thinking like susan said maybe he has had an abusive owner in the past.
I also feel for the cats Yes they can jump to heights the dog wont be able to get them but it only takes a split second and it could be he gets hold of one before you can act.

I know its hard when you think well he was fine whats happened for him to do this when they were getting on so well.

mike.
boro_lad1976@hotmail.com

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Jamiya
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posted 02-05-2004 05:42 AM     Click Here to See the Profile for Jamiya     Edit/Delete Message
Nala is scared. She didn't want to come out of her crate this morning. I kept them totally apart, but she would not walk into the family room where he is. She doesn't understand that he is tied and can't get to her.

She spent the rest of the morning in a room she is normally not allowed in. She was an angel. She isn't chasing the cats. In short, she is not herself, LOL.

I am trying to find a place for this guy to stay. He has been bounced around a lot. I just found out that both of the times he went back to the shelter, he was picked up as a stray. So both times when the people decided they didn't want him, they let him run loose. Poor guy. They have no idea how long he was on the streets. I wish they had mentioned that to me before.


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lucidity03
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From:Pittsburgh, PA, USA
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posted 02-05-2004 07:50 AM     Click Here to See the Profile for lucidity03     Edit/Delete Message
I don't usually post in the dog boards, but I wanted to say I'm terribly sorry to hear about your problems.

You probably don't remember, but I have posted about what happened to me after I got a dog and he was bloodthirsty for the cats. Long story short, we had to give him away.

The day we brought him home, we were so filled with hope and were so excited to have a new family member. The day we took him back was the worst day of our lives.

Anyhow... you're doing what you can. At least you're not letting him loose on the streets like he's had done to him before.

I wish I could help you, but I have cats. I just wanted you to know that this apparently isn't an isolated case and it's unfortunate that we must surrender what we love out of the best of intentions. I hope your husband is at least being considerate of your emotions. It's a heartbreaking situation.

But, you're taking all of your animals into consideration and trying to make the best of a well-intentioned situation that went wrong. I feel for you and hope that everything turns out well.

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susan_cude@hotmail.com
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posted 02-05-2004 10:31 AM     Click Here to See the Profile for susan_cude@hotmail.com     Edit/Delete Message
Hi Jamiya, when you said they didn't tell you everything, it reminded me of my old neighbors, and fostering. They fostered children not dogs, and ended up adopting two girls. They were'nt told these girls had been sexually abused and beaten by both parents. They were so upset when the whole truth came out! But of coarse they kept the girls and am giving them a good home. But it has taken them years of therapy to get better. I know this has nothing to do with dogs! but the comparison is somewhat the same.

When fostering a dog, you need to be told the "whole" background, so you know what you're dealing with. And I know the reasoning behind not saying "all" they have good intentions and want to make sure these dogs get adopted out, but the person who takes them, are the ones that pay the price for that. I'm not saying they are all like that, please don't misunderstand! but the comparison to children was eery.

I truly hope that you are able to find him a good home, and I know your heart is breaking.

Susan

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goob
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posted 02-05-2004 03:30 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for goob     Edit/Delete Message
Jamiya,
It's not uncommon for a dog to act differently once they're settled into a new home, especially if they were not in a foster situation, but kenneled like at a shelter. You may be seeing this, and it's the "real" him, or you may be seeing his reaction to the stress of trying to adjust.

How did you go about settling him into the house? Is he on a "probation" type setting as far as privelidges go, or has he had full rights like Nala from the start? Either way, I'd start restricting him, make him earn everything, every kibble of food or every scrap of attention. Start a log of when he starts trouble, what led up to it (his behavior and hers), any outside factors, time, etc, so you can see if there is any pattern. Maybe try keeping him completely seperate for a couple days, then letting them see each other through a babygate, then reintroducing on leash, but both controlled, no play, not even any sniffing, just leaving each other alone. You might also try doing some work with him on resource guarding, since it sounds like that's a big problem for him ("MY crate", "MY mom", "MY food"...)This is just a couple ideas if you stil lwant to try to work through this, take what you think might help. It's good that the shelter worker is willing to help as well, best of luck in whatever you decide.

quote:
I am having a similar problem with toby and mitzy she has become very protective of me and if toby comes near me mitzy is attacking him she will sit on my lap and whichever direction toby comes to see me thats it she is at him.

Charmed, it sounds more like he's letting him know that you are "hers", claiming you as a resource like she would a toy or bone, and letting him know that if he comes close to "HER person", he'll be in trouble. One of our dogs will do this on occasion with one of the others, and I don't tolerate it at all, the dog doing the guarding is off my lap in 1/2 second and shunned for a bit. They rarely do it anymore because they've figured out it doesn't work well for them. That's just my take on things, though

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charmedagain
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posted 02-05-2004 04:19 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for charmedagain     Edit/Delete Message
Goob I would not tell mitzy off for being the way she is she is great with my other dogs she just dont like him he is very pushy and mitzy has good reason to be funny about him as he went for my next door neighbour again he even growled at me tonight now that i wont tolerate.
I have had mitzy for 5years and the others about 6-7 years and none of them have ever growled or gone at anyone.

Mitzy is also very hormonal at the moment.

As for jamiya's problem her new dog went for nala with no provication from her she was doing nothing wrong and for the poor girl to fear going in the family room because he is in there then its not right she was there first and she dont need another dog attacking her.

mike

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goob
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posted 02-05-2004 06:02 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for goob     Edit/Delete Message
How to handle those types of issues is a personal choice, one a person has to make based on their dogs, themselves, and their living situation. In our case, a fight between one of our larger dogs and one of the smaller would likely end with the smaller dead, between the two larger ones, bad injuries at best. It was 3 months in the making for the two large dogs to even sniff each other through a gate, and after a year, they're still closely monitored when out together and seperated at the first sign of trouble. In order to keep the peace, these dogs need to clearly understand that we make the rules, not them. We don't tell them off in the situation I gave, just make them get down and allow the other dogs to get attention for a bit (if for no other reason than because I don't want a snapping, growling dog sitting on or near me, and certainly don't want a fight breaking out in my lap). If that means hurting feelings for a bit by chasing one off and ignoring them for a while when they get too bossy, no big deal. That doesn't mean that everyone with dogs wants to or has to do things our way, which is why I also said that was only my reaction to the situation.

I agree with what you said regarding Jamiya's situation (to clarify, I never said that Nala or Jamiya had done anything wrong, nor that Nala should have to be afraid of being attacked) except that the other dog is absolutely attacking without provocation. Dogs don't follow the same rules as people, and something that we see as normal may be something a dog finds highly offensive. There's no way of knowing exactly what is making the dog act this way, only he knows, and he's sure not telling any of us. If Jamiya wants to rehome the dog, I fully support that choice, if she wants to try and plod through this problem and keep the dog, I fully support that choice as well. Only she knows what she, her family, and the dogs can handle, and as such, only she knows the best way to handle this.

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Jamiya
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posted 02-05-2004 06:31 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for Jamiya     Edit/Delete Message
Thanks for your thoughts, Goob.

I do think the new guy is just stressed out and trying to figure out what is going on. He has been bounced around way too many times.

He was really good this afternoon. We crated him to go sledding and when I got home, I didn't let him out right away. I fed the cats and let Nala out and back in and he wasn't jumping around and crying in his crate. He just laid there, waiting. He has never done that before.

They can see each other through the baby gate now, if they want to. The gate is between the family room and the kitchen. Nala won't even go into the kitchen unless forced. She stays around the corner in the living room. Once, she went up to the gate - poor thing was lonely. But as soon as the other dog approached, she quickly skittered off and went back around the corner. I am in the living room now to keep her company, and she is happily flopped on the floor.

It seems to me that if he was just putting her in her place in a rational, doggie way, she would not be terrified of him. The last time he went for her, I could see no provocation at all, except that she existed and was too close to him. He had her pinned to the ground and would not come off her. This does not seem like a dog establishing his order in the pack - it was an attack.

I am wondering if a few days apart will help. I am thinking of moving their crates into the same room (but not TOO close together). I am worried about having them on leash together, because dogs on a leash sometimes are more aggressive than when they are off leash and free to move about.

A shelter worker is willing to foster him. There is a family that one worker knows of that might want him. They have no pets. They recently had to put their 15-year-old dalmatian to sleep and are looking for another dog. We could not get in touch with them yet. I agreed to keep him for a few more days while we wait on their answer, so that if they are interested he can go straight there, rather than having to go to a foster home in between. He really needs to get some consistency going in his life.

They told me that he "did not kennel well" at the shelter. He could not tolerate being in a kennel near all the other barking dogs. Does this say something about him and his reactivity? I would think so. But they also made the general statement that shelties don't kennel well (he is an aussie, not a sheltie - it was an unrelated comment), so maybe it is also a breed thing? I don't know.

If in the next few days I can make some progress with them, then perhaps I will consider keeping him. But I'm not sure I could ever fully trust him with Nala after this. I wanted a companion for her, not an abusive sometimes-friend. Perhaps she was too pushy with him, wanting to play all the time when we first got home. I probably should have separated them at first, but I didn't know and there didn't seem to be any problems.

I am also worried that if the new guy spends a lot of time in the family room with us, he will be regarding it as "his" now and Nala will have an even harder time intergrating back in, even though it was "hers" first.

So, that's where it stands. It looks like we have him for at least a couple of days. If the other family wants him, I will probably let him go. If not, I will most likely let the other worker foster him - she has two dogs and I am interested in seeing how he does with them. If we have some sort of major breakthrough, I will consider keeping him. But I have to feel safe around him.

I know what you mean about giving him time, Goob. But like you said, it took months (years?) for your dogs to get to the point where they were tolerant of each other. That's just not something that will fit into our family. We got a second dog to be a companion for Nala and a companion to us as well - if we instead have to segregate everyone and divide our time, it will only harm everyone in the long run. We already have to keep the cats away from the mice and Nala away from the cats, and now this new dog needs to be away from Nala AND the cats?! (The poor cats have been banished to the basement today, poor things. I felt it was best to not have them trouncing through the new guy's room, and I didn't want to have to keep him on leash all day so that I could be sure he wouldn't harm them.)

Whew. I need to go spend some time in the basement with the cats. I just need to have three of me. I have often wished for a clone or two...


Jamiya

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Samsintentions
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From:Columbus, Tx ,USA
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posted 02-06-2004 05:09 AM     Click Here to See the Profile for Samsintentions     Edit/Delete Message
Oh man thats a hard situation to be in Jamiya.... Some dogs just won't get along with others. He's been bounced around, can't figure out if this is "His" home or not,and finds that Nala is a threat thats going to take away "his" attention. Charllotte did this to Smokey for the first couple of weeks. we just had to let them fight it out...
If it got bad, we broke it up, but now they are inseparable...
I think finding him a new home is best...then he'll know its home. Sorry your going through this, its hard, but best for Nala.....good luck....

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Jamiya
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posted 02-06-2004 06:29 AM     Click Here to See the Profile for Jamiya     Edit/Delete Message
I am so torn. I think we could work it out if we worked at it and hired a behaviorist. But there would still be issues with the cats, and now I really don't trust him. Nala chases the cats, but I have never feared for their safety with her.

They looked at each other through the gate this morning and it seemed like they wanted to play. I was afraid to let them try, though. I should switch their rooms now, so they are on the opposite side of the gate from where they are now. That way, no one has their own "territory".

I am thinking about having a behaviorist come and look at them, but I just don't know. As I said, there would still be issues with my cats. Maybe we just aren't meant to be a two-dog house.

I did it wrong from the beginning and now I am afraid to put them together. I'm sure my tension would not help them get along at all.

When Smokey and Charlotte were duking it out, was one of them always the one getting picked on, and was that dog scared of the other?

Nala wouldn't come out of her crate this morning. When she finally did, she crept out of the bedroom, peeking first to make sure he wasn't there (even though he has never been out of the family room). Then she wouldn't go any farther. I had to carry her outside, and she dribbled on the floor when I picked her up.


Jamiya

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tuttifrutti
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From:Dallas, Texas
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posted 02-06-2004 06:36 AM     Click Here to See the Profile for tuttifrutti     Edit/Delete Message
I am SOO sorry Jamiya and charmedagain! Jamiya, our aussie was very protective too, only got along with other dogs if we dropped the leash or she wasn't on one. If we were holding the leash, well, then it got interesting. I am so sorry!

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puggleowner
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posted 02-06-2004 08:08 AM     Click Here to See the Profile for puggleowner     Edit/Delete Message
Oh I feel so bad for Nala- she dribbled on the floor when you picked her up? She must be really scared right now.

I am all for trying the hardest you can to make a good home for a dog, and I get upset when people return their dogs for things that are actually their own fault, such as housebreaking, training, etc., but I don't think that is the situation here at all.

Unless Nala and the new guy can build a normal relationship, I would say you have no choice but to find another home for him, or else poor Nala is going to be a scaredy-dog for the rest of her life, and you don't want to do that to her

It sounds like the new dog has some serious behavioral issues that may or may not be fixable at this point- you have no idea what he's been through. I do feel very sorry for him as well, because he just wants a permanent home and love and he behavior is understandable given everything he's gone through....I would maybe give it another week or two, and see if things improve? Don't you think? Definately try to reintroduce Nala and him (with caution of course) and see how it goes--But if Nala continues to be deathly afraid, there's really not much more you can do...

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Jamiya
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posted 02-06-2004 08:27 AM     Click Here to See the Profile for Jamiya     Edit/Delete Message
If Nala was any bigger, I don't think I would be able to carry her anymore. She's at least 40 pounds, maybe 45 now. I am only 5'3". It must look pretty humorous. Good thing nobody else was awake yet.

If the pet-less family wants him and they stand up to my approval, I think I will go ahead and hand him over. I think he would totally bask in being the focus of a family's attention - a GOOD family, that is. I think it would be totally awesome for him.

If they don't want him, or I don't approve of them, I think I will have a behaviorist come in and work with him. Maybe I can have her help me with the cat issue as well. If I can get him to not give chase, or call him off them, then perhaps that will help Nala as well. That was my original hope, at least.


Jamiya

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tuttifrutti
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posted 02-06-2004 08:34 AM     Click Here to See the Profile for tuttifrutti     Edit/Delete Message
Jamiya! Poor Nala! She must be so freaked out, afraid to come out in her own house? I am soo sorry!

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Jamiya
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posted 02-06-2004 08:39 AM     Click Here to See the Profile for Jamiya     Edit/Delete Message
PetsMart. Maybe I should bring the new guy to PetsMart and see what he does? Or would that just be more uncertainty and trauma for him? (LOL. poor "new guy". I am holding off on naming him until I know if we are keeping him. I guess I should call him by his shelter name - Blanco - but what a silly name!)

He keeps going to the door to the garage and acting like he wants to go out. That's not the door we use to let the dogs outside. The only time he has ever been through that door was coming into the house. Although, it IS the door family members use to leave the house. But I am the one he really watches and is attached to, so I know he is not looking for ME out that door when I am right there with him!

I wonder what he is thinking. Does he want to go in the car for a ride? Does he want to go "home" to the shelter where his people are? (They babied him and had him at the front desk, and they were all very attached to him.) I wish I knew.

I remember the thread about if you could ask your dog one thing, what would it be. With Nala, I didn't have a good answer. But with a shelter guy....boy, where to begin.

I have an even greater respect for those who do rescue work than I did before.


Jamiya

[This message has been edited by Jamiya (edited 02-06-2004).]

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Jamiya
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posted 02-06-2004 08:50 AM     Click Here to See the Profile for Jamiya     Edit/Delete Message
The cats. They are in the basement still, poor things. My kids are home today (snow). I just called and they still have both the dogs in their crates. The new guy's crate is in the family room. (I keep debating moving it to the bedroom where Nala is - no point if we are not keeping him, and I don't want her to feel unsafe in her "safe" place - but still I keep debating.)

Anyway, I didn't feel badly letting the cats stay in the basement when no one was home anyway. But with the kids home, they could come up and be with people. BUT, if I have the kids let them up and they go and sit on the new guy's crate - what then? He is covered with a blanket, but what if he goes nuts?

Ugh. I guess I will just have to spend some time with the cats in the basement this evening. I can watch a movie down there or something.

I just CANNOT keep splitting my time between three separate places. Not to mention the strain on me, but when will I see my kids?!

Sometimes I wish I didn't feel such empathy for all the critters in my care. Sometimes.

Speaking of which, the poor mice need to have their cages cleaned. I have been so distracted they are being neglected. We lost another one last night, and I don't know why. She wasn't that old. There will be no more mice after our current ones are gone. I got them before we got Nala, and it is just too much now.


Jamiya

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puggleowner
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From:Grand Rapids, MI
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posted 02-06-2004 09:24 AM     Click Here to See the Profile for puggleowner     Edit/Delete Message
I understand about the mice- I have newts, and I feel so bad sometimes because since we've had Cameron I haven't been as good about cleaning their cage- I just looked in there this morning and the water is getting really dirty....I need to clean it when I get home!! I, like you, feel empathy for every little living thing, so it kills me when I think about how the Newt's water is dirty, I think, "How would I like living in dirty water?" I guess it's a good thing to be that way but sometimes I think it's a curse!

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susan_cude@hotmail.com
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posted 02-06-2004 09:38 AM     Click Here to See the Profile for susan_cude@hotmail.com     Edit/Delete Message
CATS, KIDS, DOGS, AND MICE! OH MY! No wonder you're exhausted! If you don't take care of you! you'll be no help to any of them. Jamiya I suggest you take some "sellfish time" that's what I call it, it's not realy though, you do understand that. Lock your pet's up, ask the kids to watch a movie or play outside. And you do something you love! like: taking a aroma therapy bath with candles, music and "the door locked" or whatever, I don't know what you like, just a suggestion.

About the crate and cats sitting on it. Does he listen to the down command? if I understood you right! nothing worked, when he flipped the last two or three times. Has he been around the cats at all since all of this begun? if you don't think it would terrorize your cats, maybe you could try it with the blanket on top, and if he even looks like he's going to flip, remove them.

Good luck! Susan

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Jamiya
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posted 02-06-2004 10:57 AM     Click Here to See the Profile for Jamiya     Edit/Delete Message
The cats have been in the basement since the first freak out. I can't risk their safety.

I spoke to a behaviorist this morning. This is the result:

She seems to think that Blanco really needs to be an only dog. She is concerned that his responses are not appropriate. She doesn't think it is merely the stress and uncertainty of a new environment. The fact that he does not back down when Nala submisses is very disturbing to her. It takes two dogs to fight, and Nala is not fighting - she is trying to run away.

She thinks even one more incident between them will be very damaging for Nala. At only 9 months old, Nala is still impressionable. She is already afraid in her own home, and she needs some time alone to regain her confidence and feel safe.

She is worried about Blanco (awful name, poor guy). She wonders if there are some issues we don't know about, because he was returned twice and has not been adopted even though he seems to be a wonderful dog. She is worried that he is unreliable and unpredictable. He has not shown any signs of aggression toward people and hopefully he will not. But I would not have believed him capable of what he has done to Nala, so I guess there is always a seed of doubt.

Her recommendation is to get him placed in a home without any other pets. I was thinking of keeping him to work with him, but she really thinks this would not be in Nala's best interest.

So there you have it. I can't risk Nala, so he is going to go. I hope the family who has no pets wants him - otherwise I will give him to the shelter worker to foster.

What a nightmare this has been. And I spent my birthday money that I had been saving since November to spring him from the shelter. Waaaah!

Live and learn, I guess.

The Golden is still in rescue. I don't know what to do. This experience has shown me that perhaps I am not ready for two dogs. Maybe it would be better to wait a year or two and then get a puppy if we want one. I don't know. I may go and meet him. But there are others interested in him, so perhaps I should just let him go.

Either way, Nala needs some time alone in the house after Blanco goes. If the Golden's foster mommy is not willing to delay for a few weeks, then we would have to pass on him anyway.

Thanks for reading all these long posts everyone!


Jamiya

[This message has been edited by Jamiya (edited 02-06-2004).]

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honeybear
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posted 02-06-2004 11:27 AM     Click Here to See the Profile for honeybear     Edit/Delete Message
Jimiya, You are making the right decision. You dont want Nala to have problems because of this, and the behavourists just confirmed want you really thought. I really think you should give Nala some time alone before thinking of another dog, YOu have such a big heart, give lots of love to Nala. I hope it works out soon placing BLanco
Honeybear

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Samsintentions
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posted 02-06-2004 01:38 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for Samsintentions     Edit/Delete Message
Jamiya ~ Charllotte did the picking for a while, then Smokey did, and he was much worse to her...she cowared for a while away from him, then bulked up to him...now, they only duke it out when one runs off with the others treat....

I had to pull him off of her many times, and she off him....

It was like they didn't want to stop when the other did...

I think you should really have a puppy instead of a full grown dog who already has issues....


Good luck my friend...give Nala, BIG ol' sloppy kisses for me!!! BTW, what state are you from??

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Jamiya
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posted 02-06-2004 03:04 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for Jamiya     Edit/Delete Message
I'm in Kansas. The family who might have taken him wants a puppy. /sigh

The shelter worker who could foster him can't take him until Monday. Another worker who has taken him home on weekends before might be able to take him for the weekend. I hate to bounce him around so much, but I really need a break.

Not sure what I am going to do.


Jamiya

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NewLabOwnr
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posted 02-06-2004 08:52 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for NewLabOwnr     Edit/Delete Message
Oh my Jamiya, you poor thing. Haven't been here in awhile so I just caught up on everything. I sure hope you are doing ok. It's honorable to think about the dog, but in the end you really have to do whats right for you and your family.
I only have one little comment for when you were talking about how he goes to the garage door and looks at it. ... It's really weird that Max ALWAYS scratches at the back door to be let out, but we ALWAYS let him out the front door. My husband and I really can't understand it.

Well anyway, I hope you are doing ok and keep us posted.


Jill

[This message has been edited by NewLabOwnr (edited 02-06-2004).]

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Jamiya
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posted 02-07-2004 04:36 AM     Click Here to See the Profile for Jamiya     Edit/Delete Message
He is leaving this morning to go with a shelter worker that he is very bonded with to spend the weekend. Then a different worker is going to foster him until he can find a home. I am working with rescue trying to get him listed online. Maybe I can get petfinder to list him as a courtesy.

I have to work this morning so I won't be here when he goes.

Nala and he were nuts this morning. I hung her leash on a doorknob so I could get him out and bring him to the back door, and she started barking and managed to get free and come after us. I scooted him outside.

Then they saw each other through the gate and were sort of darting back and forth. I tried to distract Blanco with a ball and Nala went nuts - she was barking and growling. Not like a play bark, but sometimes she barks like that at other dogs when she is frustrated. So he started going wild and jumping up and nipping at me, so I hustled him outside. As I was doing so, Nala jumped the gate. She has never done that before. (Now I am worried that it won't contain her anymore - husband is going to be PISSED that it is all because of the second dog he didn't really want to begin with.)

So I don't know if they wanted to play, or fight, or what. I almost changed my mind again and decided to keep him and try again, but the behaviorist really thought it would not be best for Nala. And now I don't trust Blanco and am waiting for him to suddenly turn on a human - that's not good.


Jamiya

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