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Maisey Member  Posts: 1387 |
posted 01-30-2004 12:27 AM
 
Ok I told you all I didn't think Witt was going to be all that ecstatic about flyball...well he likes going to class, loves all the interesting things going on and the attention of course. He will jump over the jumps happily, BUT he won't touch the box, he bays it. Butt in the air, feet slapping on the ground, all out baying his head off. When you pull the lever back and load it with the ball, he will take the ball out very carefully without touching the box, drop it and then bay at the hole where the ball was. If you trigger the box and the hole closes he is happy and walks away. Also, he saw Shawn open the front of the box...now he tries to bite at it to open the front, he paws at it barks at it and pulls on it with his mouth. When I try to get his focus with the treats he barks at me and lays down in frustration, then back up again to bay the box. I tried teaching him "touch" with the paper plate..he ate the plate. (Should have seen that one coming!) This is all broken into pieces of the pattern, right now I am just trying to get him to put his feet on the front of the box...any ideas? IP: Logged |
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Samsintentions Member Posts: 944 |
posted 01-30-2004 04:20 AM
I'm sorry, I just laughed when I read your post....its not funny I know, but I could just see him barking at the box and you running around frantically trying to get him to do the right thing. I'm sure my dogs would have done the same thing. I would try putting a treat in the hole?? Perhaps that would intice him to go for it and know the box isn't a "monster". Maybe he's just scared?? Perhaps allowing more time with the him and the box to be alone would help. Once he figures out its not bad, maybe he'll quit. IP: Logged |
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honeybear Member Posts: 926 |
posted 01-30-2004 08:21 AM
It sounds like he is scared of the box, he does love ball tht is why he ginegerly takes it out, then bays. LOL sorry I cant help you, I have never seen flyball so I only know how you describe it. HOneybear IP: Logged |
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susan_cude@hotmail.com Member Posts: 813 |
posted 01-30-2004 11:08 AM
(I gave him a plate and he ate it) I'm still rolling!!!!! I know nothing about flyball as you know, but I sure appreciate the stories that come from it!!! I can picture him baying at that contraption!!! Thanks I needed that...I'm sure you'll figure it out, you're a smart girl. Susan IP: Logged |
Jas Moderator Posts: 536 |
posted 01-30-2004 11:10 AM
Maisey do you have a clicker? Is Witt treat motivated at all? I taught my youngest "touch" with the click treat - she'll even jump to touch be it my hand or an object. If you could get him to touch the box with his nose at first (many repetitions of click treat, click treat...) that would be a start then progress to where you want his head and clicking when he puts head in the right spot. Make sure there are no balls or other dogs around at this point to avoid diverting attention. Just an idea
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Maisey Member Posts: 1387 |
posted 01-30-2004 11:27 AM
I do have a clicker and I used it with Dooley but he was afraid of it at first and then it just semed to me that I could use my voice and have better timing. With Dooley the clicker actually seemed to be a distracter so i quit trying it with him. I'll try it with Witt, different dog..maybe different results. He is food motivated, I am not so sure he is afraid of the box...maybe a little, but I think he is getting so excited over the box that he gets out of control. He is wagging his tail and bobbing in and out in front of it like it' a coon in a tree. He turns into one giant clown, he is not being focussed at all, and up til now, that hasn't been an issue for me and him..lol, so I am baffled by how to get him to settle. It is funny to watch him and his antics, but it's only funny for about 10 minutes then it's frustrating. I'll try the clicker today and see what he thinks. IP: Logged |
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Maisey Member Posts: 1387 |
posted 01-30-2004 06:16 PM
Yay! He did it!!! Thank you Jas, I disliked the clicker so much I wouldn't have thought to try it with Witt. I tried it while my husband took Dooley with him on some errands, with no distractions things went smoother. I used the clicker and a paper envelope on the floor to teach him "touch", each time he touched it I clicked and treated him...then I quit using the clicker and just told him touch...then started moving the envelope closer to the box until it was on the front of the box. He did that for a while and then I took the paper away and just had him touching the box. Then I pulled the lever back on the box so he would be popping it (no ball). He wasn't scared of it at all and was willing to keep doing it. YAY! IP: Logged |
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susan_cude@hotmail.com Member Posts: 813 |
posted 01-31-2004 07:26 PM
Good for you!!! Knew you could master it! or rather Witt could. Except now, no more funny stories..heheheh just kidding! Susan IP: Logged |
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Maisey Member Posts: 1387 |
posted 01-31-2004 07:36 PM
LOL Susan...I said he touched the box and was willing to spring it...that doesn't mean he doesn't vocalize and throw out antics still. Everything he does seems to be a comedy routine with him, which sometimes makes me crazy..but most of the time makes me laugh. IP: Logged |
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susan_cude@hotmail.com Member Posts: 813 |
posted 01-31-2004 11:56 PM
I knew I could count on you! Keep em cumin girl.... IP: Logged |
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Jamiya Member Posts: 1392 |
posted 02-02-2004 09:45 AM
HAHAHAHA!! I missed this one! OMG, that was so funny, Maisey. You MUST video tape him baying at the box. Hahahahaha!! Errr, sorry. So, anyway. Jas. When you used the clicker to teach your dog to "touch" how do you indicate what you want them to touch? I mean, if the target is not always the same, does it still work? And Maisey, how long did this process take with Witt? It sounds like it was all one session - did it stick with him the next time you tried it? There was a lovely Catahoula at the seminar this weekend. Small guy, but beautiful and very well-behaved!
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Samsintentions Member Posts: 944 |
posted 02-02-2004 10:22 AM
I need to get a clicker.....I've heard of people using them, but I've never tried myself. Does this work well for obediance and herding as well??? IP: Logged |
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Maisey Member Posts: 1387 |
posted 02-02-2004 12:03 PM
I did get a digital camera this Christmas and I know how to take the little videos, but I don't know how to put them here for you to view. I spent about 10-15 minutes with Witt, and yes he remembered it the next day. I like to keep sessions with new stuff in them short so nobody gets frustrated. I just used the clicker to teach him the "touch" command, once he knew it I put the clicker away. I actually think what worked about the clicker for Witt was the focus he put into the new thing(clicker), it distracted him from his antics, that and the fact that Dooley was not here. After he understood what "touch" meant he would touch whatever I pointed at, I have been randomly telling him to touch things around the house and his toys since so he gets comfy with the command. I have never taken a course in clicker training, the trainer for agility I went to showed me how to use it with Dooley, but after showing me and trying to use it with him, he told me that it wasn't the best choice for Dooley and we didn't use it anymore. I didn't care for it personally, I just couldn't be consistent in timing the click, I'm sure if I worked at it I could manage, but I find using my voice I have the best timing and it leaves my hand free. LOTS of people love this kind of training though, even in the horse world. Just goes to show, what doesn't work for one dog may be just the thing for the next. Both of these boys learn really fast...but as usual sometimes I am not asking the right way for them to understand and I have to search for the right way. Sams, the clicker was like .99 cents at PetsMart, they have them all over the place. They also have many books out on the topic and if you look on-line you could probably get plenty of information as well. I think it would work in just about any type of training, all it seems to be is a replacement for "good boy". (as far as I can see, remember I only had a brief lesson)You click when you get the response you want and treat, you don't click if they don't give the correct response. The dog listens for the "you did the right thing" click. IP: Logged |
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Jamiya Member Posts: 1392 |
posted 02-02-2004 12:21 PM
The idea behind the "click" is that it is totally consistent. The way you say "yes" or "good boy" or whatever can vary from time to time. For some dogs this probably makes a bigger difference than for others. The other idea behind the click is that is happens EXACTLY when they perform what you are looking for. There is a delay with treats. I know the initial thing I read about it said you could also click with your tongue or use a word, but to try to keep it consistent. The nice thing about the clicker method, when used correctly, is that it is totally positive and encourages creativity. The dog will start offering behaviors, trying to get the click. And there are no punishments. That being said, you don't have to use a clicker to have positive training. As Maisey says, she just does it with her voice. And every dog is different - you have to find what works for your dog. I bought a clicker and was going to try it with Nala, but I never did. You are supposed to "condition" the dog to it first - click, treat, click, treat - so they start to associate the clicking sound with the treat. After a while, they say, the click itself becomes a reward and you don't always need to treat. So anyway, I was trying to condition Nala to the clicker but she didn't seem to be paying any attention to it, so I gave up. I might try again, now that she is older.
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Jas Moderator Posts: 536 |
posted 02-06-2004 11:34 AM
Hi I seemed to have missed your post about clicker training. I'm no expert but there are a few stages when clicker training, once you have the basics of timing etc down. "Capturing" the behavior - Reinforce & Repeat. Once this happens you go on to "Shaping" the behavior and then give the behavior a name i.e. "Touch" or "touch ball", box etc. I started with an envelope which I would hold when my dog touched it with her nose i clicked (could also teach to touch with paw). Once it was understood the envelop was the target I would hold it high so she would jump or put it across the room. You can use various targets but best to give some indication of what you want touched, I couldn't now just say "touch" to my dog - she would have no idea what I wanted her to touch. A dog in our class learned to turn off the light switch via clicker, I thought that was neat. IP: Logged |
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Jamiya Member Posts: 1392 |
posted 02-06-2004 12:14 PM
I got a book called "The Power of Positive Dog Training" by Pat Miller. It is a wonderful book that explains clicker training and has a 6-week program for basic skills plus some fun tricks. The beginning of the book talks about positive training versus negative and why positive is not only more fun, but it works better too! No popping leashes or scolding here. I wish I had read this book (and Ian Dunbar's books) before I got Nala!
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