posted 01-07-2004 06:58 PM         

Marcia Jasinski
JKKsdobermans@cs.com http://ourworld.cs.com/jkksdobermans/myhomepage/dog.html
owned by Angus(Latvia) Kleo(Russia), Ginger and BellaDonna (Plus her 9 new pups)

posted 01-07-2004 08:13 PM         

I ended up deciding not to. But I do know exactly what you mean. You don't have the time to put into it. As long as the trainer works with you afterwards to transfer the training, and you sound like a responsible person who knows what you are doing, I think it will work out fine.

I'm sorry, but I laugh about the PetSmart classes. Sure, they teach you what to do with your dog. But it is not personalized very much. And in my opinion, you learn very little from an hour a week with a bunch of other dogs. 95% of the work has to be with you and the dog at home. I can do that out of a book and take the dog to advanced classes later when she knows how to behave in a group better and the group will then serve as a distraction and reinforce her training. I regarded our puppy class as socialization for Nala. Nothing they told me there was stuff I didn't already know, and there were too many dogs to get any good out of it otherwise.

I know several people who got an obedience show dog that was 1-2 years old and no longer showing, and the dogs are wonderfully behaved and obedient even though they were trained by their original owners.

If you can go and visit him whenever you want, that sounds awesome. How far away is the trainer?

A lot of people here told me the same thing they are telling you - you won't bond with your dog as much if you aren't the one to train him, your relationship will suffer, etc. But really now. It's three weeks. And it's not like the training would end when he gets home. You can't tell me that I could own a dog for 10+ years and because I sent him away for 3 weeks to learn the basics, I won't have a good relationship with him.

Proofing a dog to me is the hardest part of training. It's long and slow and boring. I have a short attention span. It's also the most important part of training. I taught Nala "sit" the first day I had her when she was 3 months old. Four months later we are still working on consistency.

I say if you can afford it, you should go for it. It will be hard to let him go for three weeks, but I think it will be worth it.

posted 01-07-2004 10:29 PM         

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this 3 week training course also includes 1 year of working with me and the dog.

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He is of working quality not just from a BYB, and I intend to get him involved in a working sport and working towards achieving titles.

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posted 01-07-2004 10:53 PM         

I tend to believe owner handling and training is extremely important and rewarding in itself. For one it really has more to do with training YOU how to teach *that* particular dog what you are asking. ANY training takes time, consistency and devotion. A training session for 3 weeks without the ones who will be living with this dog on a daily basis is not consistent. A 6 or 8 week course once or twice a week generates a strong consistent base so by the time the course ends you and the dog have learned together and learn to read each other. Hiring a trainer does not mean your dog will not bond to you as was mentioned, I don't agree with that, its more so that owner handling and training strengthens the relationship between a dog and owner. I have trained many a dog, its pretty basic for me but I still feel it necessary to go through this and grow together. each dog is different and I know we learn something in every course and level. A class setting is also good for socialization and distraction with other dogs. If you can find someone to kidsit for an hour a week its really worth it in the long run! Some places will even allow the kids to participate since, they too will be raising the family companion.

Its also a given that dog ownership requires time (and money!!!). You'll find this especially true as you work towards getting titles or competing in performance and if you do intend to compete an obedience background is often needed. A green dog is not going to know how to hunt or herd (for ex.) strictly from instinct, they need competent instruction. I think is great the trainer you are inquiring about is offering a year of follow up and working with you and the dog, that makes a difference!! But given that you are so busy I suspect it might be difficult to arrange the time to do so......

FWIW,
and best of luck I hope it works out for you whatever you decide!

posted 01-08-2004 04:06 AM         

Where is this guy? Would you mind sharing his name? I am really curious. I'm trying to remember where Canfield is - I used to live in Ohio.

posted 01-08-2004 06:58 AM         

I personally would love to homeschool my kids, and if I had not landed a new out-of-home job last May I would probably be doing it this year. Think of what a wonderful bonding experience it would be, to spend the whole day with your kids, to teach them what you think is important to their futures, to get to know their learning styles and a whole new aspect of their personalities.

Some of you are probably shuddering by now. Some people who homeschool tell about how wonderful it is. Some people try it and find it a nightmare - stress, arguments, bad feelings. This is probably not helping their relationship with their children. Some children are harder to teach than others. Some respond better to their parents, and some respond better to strangers. Different people have a different capacity for teaching. Some are naturals, and some are not.

What would be best in an ideal world is not always the same as what is best in a family's particular situation. I personally feel that the ideal situation is what existed 100 years ago, when moms stayed home with the kids all day and taught them, and dads worked the land, and kids learned not only schoolwork but how to farm and sew and run a household. Now we send our kids to strangers to teach them in a room full of 20 other kids that are all treated exactly the same in the interest of "fairness" while we trudge off to sit at a desk all day. While our bodies are getting soft and fat, our children's minds are getting soft and fat as well.

I stayed at home with my kids for 10 years, because I felt it was important. But in all honesty, since getting this job in May and working out of the home part-time, I am the happiest I have ever been since I got married. I need the change of scenery, the variety of projects, the interaction of adults, combined with time with the kids and pets after school and activities I enjoy in the evening. I think it is best for moms to be home full time with their kids, but I was miserable and it did have an effect on the kids.

So if you are willing to send your kid out the door to be educated by strangers for 7 hours a day for 12 years (or more), then why are you so opposed to sending a dog to school for 3 weeks?

For some people, training a dog is a wonderful bonding experience. For others it is a nightmare and either doesn't get done, or gets done at the expense of the dog and the relationship. Trust me, getting frustrated and yelling at your kids or your dog is not a bonding experience.

What does it matter who teaches the dog what "come" or "down" means? What matters is how those skills are used in daily life, and the other interactions with a dog that happen in every moment that you are together with him. Whether you get a raw puppy or a green 2-year-old dog or a fully trained ex-show dog, your relationship depends on how you interact with that dog every day, not on who taught him how to sit. You still have to find your own style and your dog's style and learn to handle him, even if you did not train the basics initially.

So yes, training CAN be a wonderful bonding experience. But not necessarily. You have to allow for different personalities and different situations. There are always compromises in this day and age of busy schedules and constant demands on your time.

I wonder if "school" would work for a dog. Rather than sitting in a crate all day, the dog could be with a trainer, learning skills. Naturally, you would have to take classes to learn how to maintain those skills and add to their repertoire.

Also, as far as advanced training goes, I realize training a working dog is a LOT of work. But for those of us who do everything in life at top speed and crave variety and challenge, teaching a dog agility or to move stock is MUCH more interesting than basic obedience. I would MUCH rather teach a child to appreciate great literature than to learn how to read. Reading is the foundation for everything that comes after, but face it - it is VERY boring and frustrating to teach, at least to me.

Something like agility or handling stock is motivating to both the dog and the trainer. It is FUN. I know you are supposed to make obedience fun, but really now - is it? Or are you just giving the dog a reason to obey even though it is boring? Sure, they are excited that they get a treat or a game afterwards, but the actual work is not that enjoyable.

Ever talk to somone training stockdogs? Their whole body lights up as they talk about watching a dog doing a job it was bred to do. The dogs are wiggling in excitement, waiting for their turn to work. Now THAT is fun.