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Posts: 8
From:Queens, NY, USA
Registered: Sep 2003

posted 01-04-2004 06:58 PM         

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Thanks for your suggestion of bitter apple cream that would help with certain things but not with the floors and carpets though. I think it would be quite messy. He has his own towel but rips it to shreds and sometimes I feel that makes him think it is okay to chew anything (goes after other covers and clothes) We have started obedience training with him, his commands of sit,stay, heel and down but still having issues with potty training (Still having accidents), destroying things and excessive barking. The trainer is suggesting one of those collars that shock the dog. So he learns not to bark but tells me to use the bitter apple for the destructivness. I cant keep doing that forever. Any other suggestions please

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posted 01-04-2004 07:10 PM         

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Most good dog trainers (the ones that actually love dogs), don't like those shock collars. Would it be possible for you to seek the advice of another dog trainer? Every dog can be trained to stop behavior in which is not acceptable to you, in a kind and productive way.

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From:Columbia, SC, USA
Registered: Dec 2003

posted 01-04-2004 07:18 PM         

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If it is such a huge problem, get a pen for the puppy so he can't destroy the rest of the house. Also, take him out for lots of play time.
I have a 3 mo old puppy who likes to chew as well. I just had to go around my house and pick up everything that he likes to chew on and put it out of his reach. When he gets too excited, I put him outside. Your dog should eventually grow out of the chewing thing so you shouldn't need to be doing this forever. There are no guarantees of course. It just sounds like he has a lot of energy and wants something to do.
The shock collar for the barking thing does work. I had to put one on one of my dogs. However, I think it should only be used at night. I think to keep it on them all the time is cruel. Dogs bark, it's what they do. They only reason I put one on my dog is because she would bark at nothing all through the nights and we began to get phone calls from the neighbors in the middle of the night. She stopped pretty quickly after the collar got put on.

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From:My IQ is higher than yours, I guarantee it.
Registered: Dec 2003

posted 01-04-2004 07:25 PM         

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The remote collars are very effective. I have used them on two of my dogs at the recommendation of several local trainers and I ONLY use levels of power that I can stand myself. So if the dog cannot feel the collar....I put it on myself and test it out. Its mostly just an annoyance if used properly. If used at the right level..it just gets the dog attention...not devised to cause the dog pain. I assume that most people dont take the same precautions that I do when using these however. Use a crate to train the puppy....only let him run around when you are paying attention to him. If he his chewing on things...then you obviously arent watching him properly. If he destroys towels find something else like a crate pad to put in the crate and see if he chews that. If so...take all of that out and only put it in there and leave it if he leaves it alone. I believe it is better to have your puppies on a TIGHT leash and stricht training regime until they are properly trained. IT is better to be happy with your dog for the rest of your life than to let him get away with things while he is young and have bad habits installed.

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From:CA
Registered: Nov 2003

posted 01-04-2004 07:25 PM         

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I found some good reading regarding shock collars. Even the SPCA does not approve of them. Please read it, before you even consider getting one for your dog.
http://www.k9insight.com/choke.pdf

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posted 01-04-2004 08:50 PM         

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That page mostly talks about how "when used improperly" the collars are bad. Of course. When anything is used improperly, it is bad. Discomfort and or pain are two of the most important feelings in any animals life. How else do you think animals learn? This includes humans! Ever touched something hot? What did you learn?
The SPCA is not the be all end all of authorities. They have their own OPINIONS just like anyone else. Our local organization was recently under fire for adopting out cats that had been microchipped simply because they were too lazy to scan the animals. Imagine the heartbreak THAT caused.

Do what you think is best for your own dog...but make sure you do it properly. Something as simple as choosing the wrong chew toy for a dog can be considered cruel.

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Posts: 277
From:Nellis AFB, Nevada
Registered: Jun 2003

posted 01-04-2004 08:55 PM         

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I can't believe a trainer would tell you to use a shock collar for a dauchsund. I think as Mistresskala stated you should crate train him. It sounds like he may also have seperation anxiety so you should read up on how to help him with it. The barking and destructiveness could be symptoms of it. I don't know any sites off the top of my head but there are some good sites on SA out there. You should also go back to square one with the potty training. Take him out every hour, praise the heck out of him when he goes and also don't let him have full run of the house until you can trust him. Some owners tie a leash around the waist to watch their dogs. If you can't watch him, crate him. Crate training will not only help with potty training but the destructiveness. As Mistresskala said, he needs to be supervised until you can trust him. Can the shock collar though. There are definately more positive ways to train your dog. All your dog wants is to please you, you just have to show her how in the right way. Plus she is still a pup.Alot of this, she will eventually grow out of.

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From:Nellis AFB, Nevada
Registered: Jun 2003

posted 01-04-2004 09:07 PM         

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Mistresskala. I have to disagree with you on the shock collars. Yes, some people will use them. This is their right. The jolt a dog gets from a dog collar might not even hurt that much, I don't know. To me this is scaring the dog and not teaching him what he should be doing in the right, positive way. I believe there are more positive training tools out there. I have two Huskies. Huskies are notoriously stubborn and hard to train but I think I did a pretty good job with time, lots of praise, and lots of treats. I also did a lot of reading and asked a lot of questions. All a dog wants to do is make his owner happy and to please him/her. You just have to show them how in the right way. To me, shock collars are not the answer. "Shocking" and jolting a dog into submission isn't positive in my opinion.

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From:NY, USA
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posted 01-04-2004 09:11 PM         

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quote:

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Discomfort and or pain are two of the most important feelings in any animals life. How else do you think animals learn?

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Positive reinforcement is another. Im not saying that punishement could'nt work (as you said it must be used correctly to be effective) but it is not the only way to train a dog.

[This message has been edited by nern (edited 01-04-2004).]

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posted 01-04-2004 09:13 PM         

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No its not a positive based training system. Not every dog responds to the same types of training. Personally I mix it with treats and rewards. Certain dogs respond to certain things. My poodle is one of the best trained dogs I know. VERY well behaved. Im never the person who has to chase my dog down when its time to leave the dog park. And at the vet...shes not jumping all over the place like most of the dogs there. Like I said..its personal choice. You can use it or you can choose not to. Each dog learns differently...just as every child learns differently.

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posted 01-04-2004 09:15 PM         

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Exactly Nern. Theres more than one way to skin a cat =)

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posted 01-04-2004 09:58 PM         

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A dog experiencing an unpleasant shock to the neck 'out of the blue' will associate the sensation with whatever the dog happens to be focusing on at the time.
In addition, it is possible that the device may be triggered by external influences, or malfunction, which may result in delivery of repeated shocks, particularly in those devices which are designed to be triggered by barking and are put onto dogs left alone for long periods.

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posted 01-05-2004 06:54 AM         

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It is also possible to use a very low-level stimulation that the dog turns OFF by performing a certain behavior. It's not painful, more like an irritating vibration that is constant. You shut it off when the dog does what it is supposed to. If done correctly, the dog does not associate the annoying feeling with the collar or with you. All it knows is that a certain behavior makes it feel better, so it does it.

I did a lot of research on shock collars, and although I have not used one it does seem that when used carefully and properly for each particular dog, it could be a good aid in training.

Jamiya

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