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Author Topic:   Dog food question (Sicene Diet)
Rene
Member

Posts: 161
From:Oakley, CA 94561 USA
Registered: Nov 2003

posted 12-12-2003 12:33 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for Rene     Edit/Delete Message
Hi i have a question for you guys i read in here that alot of you dont' agree with sicence diet for your dogs and i i was wondering why. all three of my dogs eat it because that is what my Vet recomended. Is there something i dont' know about?? My Nala has to have a special diet because she has hepatiats (sp)so she eats the Liver diet and sebastain and jasmine just eat the regular adult food. but i would like to know why you guys dont agree with sicence diet

thanks

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Samsintentions
Member

Posts: 944
From:Columbus, Tx ,USA
Registered: Dec 2003

posted 12-12-2003 12:43 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for Samsintentions     Edit/Delete Message
If you look on the ingrediants. there is a subsitiute instead of meat. Meat should always be the first ingrediant, I don't see enough protien, and vitamins.

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Maisey
Member

Posts: 1387
From:Portland, Oregon US
Registered: Sep 2003

posted 12-12-2003 01:05 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for Maisey     Edit/Delete Message
I won't feed it because it's basically fillers, lots of grains and not even whole grains, they use artificail preservatives such as BHT and BHA, these are very bad for your dog. If you read in the FOOD FOR THOUGHT thread there is much discussion on this topic, I've written a couple myself with the ingredient list present that explains why. There are also comparisons to show what a quality food should look like.
One of my dogs was also on a prescription Science Diet, I found out what it is he needed and what he couldn't have in order to provide an appropriate diet for him and found it in another food. It took alot of researching to do that, but it's been worth it.

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kyles101
Member

Posts: 227
From:Perth, Western Australia
Registered: May 2003

posted 12-12-2003 02:34 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for kyles101     Edit/Delete Message
science diet is great for dogs with special needs. so if your dog needs it, likes it and agrees with it then keep buying it! i find feeding a healthy dog science diet is unecessary though, as there are cheaper brands that are just as good or better.

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Maisey
Member

Posts: 1387
From:Portland, Oregon US
Registered: Sep 2003

posted 12-13-2003 02:00 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for Maisey     Edit/Delete Message
Rene, I got curious about hepatitis in dogs and started thinking. Have you researched the disease at all? I don't know if you care to...but I found an explanation and read it. Do they know where your dog got it from? Is it chronic? What did the vet say about long term?
Before I changed Darby's food I researched the heck out of his condition and I consulted with my vet frequently. He would have been happy if I had just fed the SD and shut up...I'm sure. I bugged the heck out of him! I wanted to know what were the reasons this SD formula was important for him ...what was in it and what was withheld from it that made it a needed food for him. Once I found out the criteria I set out trying to find a diet that would be balanced nutritionally and still provide what he needed to keep him from developing stones..which is his issue. I was told that after three surgeries for this, Darby may not be able to have another. So I knew that if he got them again it could mean certain death for him. What my vet recommended and what we were doing for him wasn't working and I knew that because I was able to test with pH strips weekly to track it, I HAD to find something that worked. He also has allergies which the SD was making miserable, although that had to be secondary in my considerations it was a huge part of what I was looking for in a diet for him. I wanted a food that was healthy, had good quality ingredients, wouldn't flare up his allergies and would keep him from developing stones. A VERY LARGE ORDER as it turns out.
I just wanted to explain to you that I didn't make changes lightly. If I were you I would research Hepatitis in dogs like a crazy woman, even if you don't care to find food alternatives. Researching may turn up some things you didn't know and your vet didn't tell you(or isn't aware of). Mine sure did! Holistic web sites for dogs often have good information for simple things you can do to help your dog with his condition. Using a search engine to find info on Hepatitis in dogs is a good start.
Here is one article I read...I don't know if thats exactly what your dog has or not.

http://www.lclarkecushingvmd.com/showpracfaq.cfm?FAQID=159&Private=0

Is your dog on the l/d formula?

[This message has been edited by Maisey (edited 12-13-2003).]

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Marcia McLean-Jasinski
Member

Posts: 63
From:USA - New York
Registered: Nov 2003

posted 12-13-2003 11:46 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for Marcia McLean-Jasinski     Edit/Delete Message
i feed all my dogs naturally this is why i wont feed my dogs euthanized animals. http://ourworld.cs.com/jkksdobermans/myhomepage/dog.html
http://www.preciouspets.org/cancer.htm
Why is Cancer Killing Our Pets?

Courtesy of 'New Living' Newspaper
March 2001

VACCINES

Over the past decade or so, many veterinarians have become increasingly convinced that a number of vaccines are doing more harm than good for our animal companions. Some remain necessary, even mandated by law, such as rabies. But not all the annual boosters that have been traditionally given now appear to be necessary and they may be leading to several diseases. Among the conditions associated with vaccines are skin allergies, bladder infections and cancer. The U. S. veterinary community is currently reviewing most vaccines protocols.

When it is time to revaccinate your animal, your veterinarian should consider the pet's age, his/her lifestyle (indoor or outdoor), his/her general state of health, the prevalence of the disease in question in the geographic area where you live, whether your animal is pregnant, whether or not you board her/him and other factors. Each case is individual and should be considered as such.

One of the more no-holds-barred statements about vaccines is Dr. Richard Pitcairn's warning: "Giving a vaccine to an animal with cancer is like pouring gasoline on a fire." He also advises not vaccinating pets who have breast tumors or any other growths or tumors. His overall recommendations regarding vaccines are these: Try to get your veterinarian to give single or simple vaccines rather than complex vaccines. Young animals can tolerate a reduced vaccination schedule, but vaccinating is not advised before sixteen weeks of age. Annual boosters should be avoided even though they have been popular. Pitcairn goes so far as to say avoid "any further vaccinations after the initial series as they are not necessary." He adds that the latest official medical opinion is that annual boosters are neither required nor effective, although not all veterinarians will agree with or even know this fact.

THE PET FOOD INDUSTRY

Perhaps the most shocking and informative book about the pet food industry is Ann Martin's "Food Pet's Die For", published in 1997. As Dr. Michael W. Fox, vice president of the Humane Society of the United States, says, "Ann Martin is to the pet food industry what Rachel Caron was to the petrochemical-pesticide industry." Martin spent seven years investigating the commercial pet food industry and what she uncovered isn't pretty. There are several reasons you really do not want to feed your dog or cat commercial foods. Perhaps the most compelling moral reason is that there are rendered, euthanized pets in much of this food. These pets have been mixed with other materials, including some condemned for human consumption: "rotten meat from supermarket shelves, restaurant grease..'4-D' (dead, diseased, dying and disabled) animals and roadkill."

The Minister of Agriculture of Quebec told Martin that dead animals are often cooked with viscera, bones, fat and fur. In both the United States and Quebec, this rendering of pets is not illegal. Martin points to an article originally published in the San Francisco Chronicle in which an employee and ex-employee of a rendering plant admitted that their company rendered approximately 250,000 to 500,000 pounds of animals, scraps and more, including "somewhere between 10,000 and 30,000 pounds of dogs and cats a day."

That's enough to make most of us sick, isn't it? Martin, a Canadian writer who lives with several animal companions, went a bit further in her investigations and discovered that some pets are euthanized with sodium pentobarbital and then rendered. This poison does not break down and goes into commercial pet food and feed for cows, pigs and horses. For the detailed report by the FDA's Center for Veterinary Medicine on popular commercial pet foods containing pentobarbital, click here. When you read the report, please know that AD (animal digest) is animal waste (to be polite)!

Two thirds of the pet food manufactured in the United States contains added preservatives, according to the Animal Protection Institute. There are also coloring agents, emulsifiers, lubricants, flavoring agents, pH control agents, synergists and solvents. "Of the more than 8,600 recognized food additives today, no toxicity information is available for 46% of them," the institute says.

EQ (ethoxyquin) is the most common antioxidant preservative in pet foods. It has been found in some dogs' livers and tissues months after the animal stopped ingesting it. Ethoxyquin is manufactured by Monsanto Chemical, the largest manufacturer of bioengineered foods. EQ is listed as a hazardous chemical by the Occupational Safety and Health Administration (OSHA) and is considered a pesticide by the USDA. It is used in most US dog food, but is banned in Europe. The FDA's Center for Veterinary Medicine requested that pet food manufacturers voluntarily reduce the maximum level for ethoxyquin by half to 75 parts per million.

PreciousPets.org is pleased to announce that none of the products offered contain any of the above ingredients!

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Linda
Member

Posts: 56
From:
Registered: Jan 2004

posted 01-22-2004 09:05 AM     Click Here to See the Profile for Linda     Edit/Delete Message
I am just waking up and I hope it is not too late for my 12 year old dog. She has been on Science Diet all of her life as I felt I was giving her the best food since the vet recommended it and every vet sells it. Look at the ingredients, go to www.wholedogjournal.com or www.greatdanelady.com and see list of approved human grade foods. I changed to Eagle Pack and the vomiting blood, bloody mucus stools have disappeared. Oxy Drops removes cyst that have developed on her skin. The itching has stopped and her coat is prettier and silkier than I've ever seen.

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Jamiya
Member

Posts: 1392
From:
Registered: Sep 2003

posted 01-22-2004 09:37 AM     Click Here to See the Profile for Jamiya     Edit/Delete Message
Wonderful! Good for you!

One thing to keep in mind is that we can only work with what we know. It is not fair to feel guilty or blame yourself for doing something (or not doing something) that you had no knowledge of at the time.

My last dogs ate SD their whole lives, and we started our new puppy on it as well. It's also what she was fed at the shelter. It wasn't until I joined this group that I found out that I wasn't feeding this wonderful food, as I had thought. I grew up thinking SD was "the best" and much better than the grocery store foods.

We switched to premium foods, and now I am switching to raw feeding.

Linda, it's great that your dog is doing better on her new food.

To anyone else looking into the food issue, all I can say is "research research research" and find what is right for you and your dog. Dogs are all different and what works for one may not work for another.

As far as the SD prescription diets go, vets love to recommend these and owners go home thinking that any other food will kill the animal. I know this happened to me and one of my cats. He was placed on a prescription diet for urinary problems 12 years ago and I thought ever since that if I switched his food he would start having problems again. I wish I had known then when I know now.

He has always seemed perfectly healthy to me, but in a routine checkup they discovered a heart murmur and now he is on medication for it. Feeding him a better diet may have prevented this, but there's no way to tell. Feeding him a raw diet would have kept his teeth clean, at least.

And now he is 13 years old and is resisting any change in his diet. It would have been easier to do it right to begin with!

Anyway, I ramble. Shutting up now!


Jamiya

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Rene
Member

Posts: 161
From:Oakley, CA 94561 USA
Registered: Nov 2003

posted 01-22-2004 09:48 AM     Click Here to See the Profile for Rene     Edit/Delete Message
thanks for all the input i dont know what kind of hepitas (sp) nala has i'm going to find out tho. She was eating the l/d food but she gained a ton of weight because of the steriods she had to take so we switched to w/d and the and was doing fine the vet took her off all her meds and she has been doing well for about 6 mos now. But i noticed she wouldnt eat so i mixed some of the other food with it and she picked out the other food and left the w/d and now the Yorkies and her all wouldnt eat unless i handed it to them (spolied brats) so they wouldnt eat till 6 at night. I started thinking about stuff i read here about being "board" with the same food day after day so i stoped at the store and bought a little bag of pedigree dog food (no pet store around me and would be closed by the time i got there) mixed the old food with the new food and they all loved it now i'm going to petsmart this weekend (after i research food) and get a good kind and mix it all togather since i just bought a 20lb bag of sience diet. I also had bought a couple of cans of sience diet thinking i would give them a little treat and one of the Yorkie threw it up not sure which one so no one gets that for a treat anymore

thanks again for all the advice

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Jamiya
Member

Posts: 1392
From:
Registered: Sep 2003

posted 01-22-2004 11:48 AM     Click Here to See the Profile for Jamiya     Edit/Delete Message
The only food I would get from PetSmart is called BLUE (http://www.petsmart.com/dog/shopping/food_center/blue/psearch.shtml).

And the only food I would get at PetCo is Natural Balance (http://www.naturalbalanceinc.com/).

For premium brands, you usually have to find a specialty shop or groomer that sells them. Chicken Soup for the Dog Lover's Soul is sold in more places and seems like a good food.

I like Innova and Canidea. You can do a location search on their websites for stores in your area. Usually the places that sell one of those carry other premium brands as well.


Jamiya

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