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Author Topic:   proper age to spay puppy?
Jazmyns_daddy
Member

Posts: 22
From:valparaiso, indiana
Registered: Nov 2003

posted 11-09-2003 09:39 AM     Click Here to See the Profile for Jazmyns_daddy     Edit/Delete Message
just curious when i should take in my 8 wk aussie to be fixed. or on another note does anybody know the behavioral differences in a dog that was spayed with no litters as opposed to letting her have one litter. didnt know if this changed the dogs outlook in general or not. also my girlfriend has an 11 wk old pit-bull and we were wondering the proper time to neuter him as well. (can you imagine a pit and aussie together..too crazy)
thanks for advice to all
steve.

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dogangel
Member

Posts: 132
From:Brewton, AL, USA
Registered: Aug 2003

posted 11-09-2003 09:52 AM     Click Here to See the Profile for dogangel     Edit/Delete Message
Hi Jazmyn's daddy.
With the boys, it's easy (as always...). They can be neutered at any time. It's better for them because this way, they never get testicular cancer, and they become a little less territorial, which is good in terms of aggressiveness (did I spell it right??) and marking their territory.
With girls it's a little trickier. Some vets say that you could do it after six months. Some say that you have to wait until after their first heat (this way you avoid later problems with incontinence at older ages). I had mine spayed after their first heat. None of mine had any litter, and they couldn't be happier.
It is true, they have a tendency to gain a little more weight, but this is also a matter of feeding them properly and exercising them.
Hope this helps.

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Maisey
Member

Posts: 1387
From:Portland, Oregon US
Registered: Sep 2003

posted 11-09-2003 11:22 AM     Click Here to See the Profile for Maisey     Edit/Delete Message
6 months for both is what I have always followed. I was actually told you should spay your female BEFORE her first heat cycle.
Here is a link that explains both procedures and makes recommendations about when.
http://www.greatpets.com/home/dogs/health/care/spaying_and_neutering/d_article.jsp?articleId=249

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neek
Member

Posts: 291
From:Australia
Registered: Oct 2003

posted 11-09-2003 02:06 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for neek     Edit/Delete Message
I'm just curious. What is an "Aussie"? I live in Australia and there are a lot of "Aussie" dogs breeds. Which one in particular are you referring to as "Aussie"?

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dogangel
Member

Posts: 132
From:Brewton, AL, USA
Registered: Aug 2003

posted 11-09-2003 02:15 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for dogangel     Edit/Delete Message
Hi Neek!
An Aussie is actually an Australian Shepherd. And as I was amazed to learn on Animal Planet, they're actually not an Australian breed, but American. I'm not sure why they got this name??? (Can anybody shed some light here?)
They're incredibly intelligent and trainable. Sweeties.

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neek
Member

Posts: 291
From:Australia
Registered: Oct 2003

posted 11-09-2003 02:33 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for neek     Edit/Delete Message
I have never heard of an Australian shepherd. Weird hey? Over here we have German Shepherds, alsations, which I think are the same thing, Belgium shepherds, long hairs, whites and blacks which are just colour variations to the black and tan german shepherd. They are all magnificent dogs!

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Maisey
Member

Posts: 1387
From:Portland, Oregon US
Registered: Sep 2003

posted 11-09-2003 02:35 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for Maisey     Edit/Delete Message
Hi neek, welcome to the board. I got this explanation from the AKC site. The link below will take you to the page where you can see a picture of the dog and read more about it.

"The Australian Shepherd probably originated in the Basque region of the Pyrenees, mountains between Spain and France, but was dubbed the Australian Shepherd because of its association with Basque shepherds who came into the United States from Australia in the 1800s.
The Australian Shepherd was initially called by many names, including Spanish Shepherds, Pastor Dogs, Bob-Tails, Blues, Heelers, New Mexican Shepherds and California Shepherds."

http://www.akc.org/breeds/recbreeds/ausshep.cfm

I have a half Aussie half Labradore named Dooley, he seems to reflect mostly Australian Shepherd personality and traits. He is an awesome dog, very athletic, easy to train, loyal...I could go on forever about all the good traits he has.

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nern

Moderator

Posts: 1591
From:NY, USA
Registered: Oct 2002

posted 11-09-2003 06:20 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for nern     Edit/Delete Message
I think the proper spaying/neutering age will depend on your vet. Some vets won't do it sooner than 6 months others will do it earlier. My vet does it at 4 months and thats how old my Aussie x was when she was spayed. I would have it done as soon as your vet will do it.

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Jamiya
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Posts: 1392
From:
Registered: Sep 2003

posted 11-10-2003 06:58 AM     Click Here to See the Profile for Jamiya     Edit/Delete Message
It is actually recommended now to have puppies and kittens spayed or neutered between 8-16 weeks of age. The 6 months thing is a thing of the past. Waiting for a female dog's first heat greatly increases her chance of having cancer down the road, and also opens up a whole can of potential behavior problems and accidental pregnancy.

The younger animals bleed less during the surgery and recover more quickly. Most shelters around here will not let their animals go to a home without being altered first. Our pup was about 12 weeks when she was done, and she hardly noticed. We picked her up the day after and she was totally fine.

Here is a quote from this web site: http://www.danesonline.com/earlyspayneuter.htm

"Quietly over the past twenty-five to thirty years a few progressive animal shelters began various early sterilization programs with uniformly consistent success stories. If they are spayed or neutered before they leave the shelter … they cannot become contributors. Puppies and kittens are being neutered as young as six to eight weeks. The development of new anesthetics and surgical procedures has made these procedures as safe or safer than the commonly accepted time of six months. The younger patients recover faster and have fewer surgical and post-surgical complications than their older counterparts. There is very little to no body fat to contend with, the incision is smaller, surgery time is reduced and recovery time is very short.

The research available on the physical, behavioral, short and long-term effects of prepubescent neutering in dogs and cats shows no adverse results. Based on this information, the American Humane Association supports this practice as a feasible solution to decreasing pet overpopulation and the tragedy of resulting deaths. Early sterilization practices are also endorsed by the American Veterinary Medical Association, the American Animal Hospital Association and the California Veterinary Medical Association."

It goes on to say that early spay/neuter does NOT stunt the growth of an animal, and that actually animals that are altered early tend to get slightly bigger than their counterparts.

The beginning of the article also talks about how the "6 months" thing was arrived at in the first place - was pretty arbitrary.

There are tons of articles on the web about this. I posted some links to them in a thread a long time ago. Perhaps a search of this forum and the cat forum would uncover them.


Jamiya

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NewLabOwnr
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Posts: 169
From:New York, USA
Registered: Aug 2003

posted 11-10-2003 08:21 AM     Click Here to See the Profile for NewLabOwnr     Edit/Delete Message
I'm with Jamiya I heard the 6 month thing is something in the past. We got Max from the shelter at 8 weeks and he was already neutered. I say the sooner the better, go for it!

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Maisey
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Posts: 1387
From:Portland, Oregon US
Registered: Sep 2003

posted 11-10-2003 10:05 AM     Click Here to See the Profile for Maisey     Edit/Delete Message
I asked my vet about neutering Witt earlier, he said no, I don't remember the reasons he gave...but I went with it. There are alot of people who will debate both sides. I also think it depends on the breed of dog, but for the life of me can't remember why. The opinions are varied obviously, it would be best to ask your vet for an explanation and go with what makes you comfortable. Take a look at the research done on the topic, see what makes sense to you. Sometimes it is so hard to get a straight answer lol!

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charmedagain
Member

Posts: 790
From:uk
Registered: Aug 2003

posted 11-11-2003 05:26 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for charmedagain     Edit/Delete Message
Hi Everyone,

The reason most vets wait until after a bitches first heats is because her ovaries are then amture and it makes it easier to do the operation and does not take aslong...

Neutering a male dog before 4months old is abit strange as there testicles dont usual drop until around then and doing it sooner can actually cause problems....

I have 5 bitches and 4 dogs all are full pedigree german shepherds. 2 of my bitches are spayed and they were done after there 1st heat which was around 7months old when the procedure was done....

My males are not castrated, When i give my puppies to new owners they are given a full check up by the vet and they are also given information on the best time to neuter or spay there dogs this info is given by the vet.
They also have to agree that if they take a bitch that she will not be bred from and i get them to sign am agreement to this i also do spot checks on my puppies in there new homes..

But i have to say i would wait till after the first heat for a bitch and wait till a dog ( male) is 4months old to have the spayed or neutered.....

Each vet and owner has a different view on the best time to do it...

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Jamiya
Member

Posts: 1392
From:
Registered: Sep 2003

posted 11-12-2003 06:44 AM     Click Here to See the Profile for Jamiya     Edit/Delete Message
Waiting for after the first heat GREATLY increases the chance of mammary tumors (and probably other cancers) later in life. There's no reason to put a dog through a heat cycle if you are never going to breed her.

I think maybe some vets are hesitant because this is a deviation from what they were taught in school, long ago. Everything I have read says the surgery is easier, faster, and less traumatic for the animal when done at an early age. If my vet were uncomfortable with early spay/neuter, I think I would question his surgical skill.

Nala never had a bit of trouble with her surgery at about 12 weeks, and a friend adopted a kitten from a shelter that was already neutered - probably around 10 weeks old - and he is a huge, gorgeous, personable one-year-old now.


Jamiya

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Maisey
Member

Posts: 1387
From:Portland, Oregon US
Registered: Sep 2003

posted 11-12-2003 12:04 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for Maisey     Edit/Delete Message
I don't think that questioning a vets surgical ability is a fair response to him/her being hesitant to jump on the band wagon every time a new standard developes. There is also the possibility that the vet just plain disagrees too. There are many issues that are cause for debate and that vets and other professionals hold different views on. Thats why it is so important for people to do their own homework. I don't have a female and haven't for quite a while...if I were to adopt one into our family I would certainly be researching the claim that early spaying greatly reduces tumors etc.....I want to see the studies results, how long was it for, who did the study, who is making the recommendation for early spay? For how long have early spays been done? I would talk to my vet about it and find out what his thoughts are, what is his experience? Does he agree? disagree? and why? One of my hold ups is the anesthesia, I am always concerned about putting an animal under, and it would be a worry for me to put a kitten or puppy under any earlier than I would have to. That being a concern...I would ask, read and try to figure out if my fears had any basis. My vet and I just had a long conversation about feeding raw...when I first asked him about it a little less than a year ago, he said no, he said he would not recommend it. Well I did my research and put my dog on raw anyhow, the other day when I had to go in for Witt's eye infection, I brought along with me print outs of the information I had been reading regarding Struvite Crystals, allergies and the new food I was feeding. I explained to him why I had made the choice I made and showed him the results of Darby's ph tests, (which are perfect), I also told him how the allergy symptoms have nearly disappeared. When he took a look at what I was feeding...he was thrilled, turns out his "NO" was because he has seen too many people try a "raw diet" that only consisted of raw meat or they were not balancing out the nutrition for their animals and in the end caused them great harm. He also said that it was difficult for him to recommend a raw diet because he couldn't guarantee that the client would do the proper things to avoid contamination and that client may come back on him in the event their animal got sick. He also stated that the raw whole bones were an issue for him and he explained why. He was pleased with the product I had chosen because it was packaged in such a way that helped to avoid contamnination, the bones were finely ground and the food had vegetables and all the stuff that was nutritionally needed mixed in (not just meat). He was thrilled with the PH results as well, can't argue with success. I did my homework, it was evident to him that I wasn't going to go off half cocked and jump into something that could cause my pets harm, so he was willing to discuss it with me. I'm not sure if you were here for the leptospirosis discussion or not...but it was much the same. I realized that my dogs had not been given that vaccine, I wanted to know why, my vet explained, I read the different views on it on-line and in the end agreed with him, he has good reasoning behind his view. Someone who lives in a different area of the country may disagree, or maybe a vet in my area would disagree as well, again I would want to ask why. Vets are people too with opinions and beliefs, some are quick to jump into the new thing, some stand back a bit, do some homework and wait to see what happens, some refuse to even consider something different. I drink coffee...I can't tell you how many times I have heard "it's good for you" and then "it's bad for you" the yo yo of opinions and studies, it's the same in healthcare for pets, the amount of protein a dog needs in food is now a "yo yo" topic, look around and you will see many recommendations, all different. It's up to YOU to figure out whats best for your pet, hopefully people will do that after having done their homework.

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