posted 11-05-2003 06:34 AM         

Nala, our puppy, wants very badly to sniff the cats and play with them. The cats do not like this. They totally avoided her for the first few days. Then they started to come into the room, but would always stay up high.

Even after two months of trying, I can't get Nala to stop chasing them. They have to dart through her room to get to the basement. One jumps the gate, and the other squishes through the bars (she is an oddball). I have a card table out in the family room so when they do come in to stay, they can lie up there.

When Nala is tired, she doesn't chase them (sometimes).

One of the things people suggest when introducing a new animal is to put the newcomer in a crate or closed room and let the resident animals sniff it through the crate or under the door. Then slowly progress to face to face meetings, but don't force anything. Let the animals go at their own pace.

I'm not sure what to suggest in your situation, except perhaps move the food and water and maybe the litterbox into the bedroom for now, so the cats can eat without going out. Maybe start to put them closer to the bedroom door and then inch them out into the hallway until they are back where they started. Do this slowly - over the period of a week or two. Correct your pup for barking at them.

It is really challenging with a herding dog and cats. I am still searching for a solution.

posted 11-05-2003 09:09 AM         

I guess I got off to a bad start because she would chase the cats and was too fast for me to catch. I can't leave a leash on her because she chews on it, and nothing has worked with that, either.

Also, I was afraid to leave her crate in the family room while we are at work because I was worried she would hurt herself trying to get to the cats. The crate is too large to move from bedroom (where she sleeps at night) to the family room on a regular basis. I have considered getting an identical one for the family room. She has her car crate in there, but it is plastic so she can't see out as well.

I tether her to me when I let her come in the kitchen while I am working in there. She generally tries to chew on the leash then, too, because she wants to be free.

And now the cats are very wary of her and will hiss and swat even when she is being nice, which is not helpful at all.

My biggest hope right now is to get a reliable DOWN-STAY so I can down her when she is going to chase a cat. I have a feeling that will be a long time coming, though. I would really rather her just ignore them on her own.

Also, I can't put the cats in a bedroom because they all have mice or other little critters in them. The only place I could put them is the basement (which is finished and has their food and litter) but I didn't want them to get the message that now we have a dog, they have to be banished to the basement. They like to be in the same room with me. When I go out or go to bed, the cats never go in the family room and my husband doesn't have to deal with Nala chasing cats.

Nik, I know what you mean about second guessing yourself. Just hang in there. I felt horribly guilty when I got Nala because my cats were so unhappy. And it was even worse because I also felt guilty about getting a puppy at all after my other dog died, and I also had originally wanted a Golden Retriever and now instead I had this wild dog that was very stubborn and terrorizing my cats. I did just sit and cry sometimes.

We are working it out, though, and it can only get better. Hang in there!

posted 11-12-2003 08:33 AM         

I think all the advice offered here is great.

One good thing you did was get a pup. Older dogs are harder to raise with cats and have them think that cats are part of the pack.

A few months ago, my husband and I got a year old dog and we have four cats. My family said I was crazy and I was very angry at all the negativity aimed towards me.

Well... it turned out that our dog reacted horribly to the cats. In turn, the cats hated the dog. (He actually acted violently towards the cats... he didn't just play chase.) I think some of your situation will depend on your cats' and dog's personalities. Each animal is different.

It's a very long story but I'll try to shorten this for you... we ended up hiring an animal behaviorist to help us because we were desperate. Here's her advice after our consultation:

Put the food and litter in a room where they feel safe.

Give them high places to feel safe from the dog.

Raise the dog to think cats are great and they're not to chase. If the dog acts in a good way towards the cats, treat him and act like he's the best thing in the world.

Don't punish the dog if he acts badly towards the cats (just get his attention to get him to stop)... if you punish him, he will think that it's associated with the cats and he may end up disliking them.

Exercise the dog and get him exhausted before working on introductions. This can reduce his desire to chase the cats.

Give the kitties attention and let them think the dog is a good thing. Let them take their time.

I was very frustrated that people said to let the cats investigate the dog because my cats ended up under the bed for 23 hours a day (and the dog wasn't even allowed upstairs). There was no way they'd ever go up to his crate to investigate him. Two of my cats are 7 years old and are afraid of their own shadows.

The babygates worked for us.

But, here's the one bad thing that I pray doesn't happen for you. After hiring the behaviorist, we tried everything. (And believe me... I haven't seen so many tears shed out of frustration.) The behaviorist in the end said that the cats probably would never adjust and the dog just wouldn't learn to see the cats as anything but food. She told us it would probably never work out.

HOWEVER, the dog was a year old... had another owner and came with ALOT of baggage. There were so many problems with him and I think he had prior experiences with cats (not good ones.) It turned out that we had to find him a better home. He was suited for a totally different lifestlye than we can offer. That was the most heartbreaking experience in my life. I hope no one judges me that we had to give up the dog because no one was there to go through everything we dealt with. I never thought I'd have to get rid of an animal and it was horrible.

I just wanted to relate that I know what you're going through. BUT IT CAN WORK. I know countless people who made it work through persistance and patience. I really wish the best for you and your kitties and pup. I truly hope that all this advice works for you and that I offered some good advice.

posted 11-13-2003 06:55 AM         

The other cat, Tesla, will stroll into the room and then freeze when she sees the dog and then just sit there and wail and carry on when she gets licked to death or chewed on. She's really not the sharpest tack in the box.

My husband had Nala at the park and she got really wet and smelly. She usually doesn't smell much at all. She was lying on the floor chewing on a bone when Tesla squeezed through the gate on her way dowstairs. Tesla froze and then started creeping (like that's going to work), but Nala was tired so she didn't get up to chase.

Then Tesla suddenly changed direction and creeped toward Nala. We watched, fascinated. As she got closer, she stuck her nose out and started sniffing. Eventually she was nose to nose with Nala - I wish I could have snapped a picture! She then proceeded to sniff Nala's nose and paws before Nala finally overloaded and chased her away.

It was hysterical! It's like Tesla was planning on just walking by when suddenly she smelled something odd....

posted 11-13-2003 12:59 PM         

I did put my cats food into the bedroom and within 4 days they were eating. Not great amounts, but at least they were having something. I left their litter out in the hallway in the hope that if they got really desperate they'd risk it. They haven't. They do crawl on their bellies to the door to be let out now tho and will walk past the stair gate if I'm there telling Floob to stop barking at them. They're back to sleeping ontop of the bed now too, which shows they're feeling more confident he can't get them there.
It feels like I'm getting somewhere at least and it's still early days

I'll give the advice on over praising him and making the cats feel like he's 'nice' to have around a go too. I'm already doing that in a way with all the reasuring I do when I'm holding them I guess but I'll make it more obvious.

posted 01-10-2004 07:35 AM         

I, too, want to be able to hold my cats with Nala in the room. She has allowed Tesla to be on the couch a couple of times, held by my son (convinced by me holding the end of the leash and not letting her jump on the cat). I tug gently on the leash and tell Nala to sit, speaking quietly and slowly. Now when she has the leash on, she usually knows she must sit down because she's not going to get to go anywhere anyway. Transitioning to off-leash is still a long way off. And there is no one to help her to sit when *I* want to hold a cat.

I am focusing my methods on teaching Nala self control, so that she can learn to obey in situations that she finds terribly exciting. It is a long process, just as it is with human children.

I have found the teachings of Suzanne Clothier to be very helpful, and I will probably do a phone consultation with her at some point. Here is her web site: http://www.flyingdogpress.com/. She has some free articles there. I also bought and read "Bones Would Rain from the Sky" and her 4-booklet behavior series.

posted 01-13-2004 07:05 AM         

I moved the stair gate up a little a few days ago so the cats could get under n venture into the front room but Floob couldn't get under so they were safe to run back at any time. Only Jipsi dared to come in a couple of nights ago but ran straight back out when she saw Floob laying there.
BUT TODAY SHE'S IN!! WOOOOOOOOOOO
lol, sorry, I'm just so happy.
She's growling when he gets too close and she threw a couple of swipes but that was after a while when I rolled his ball for him so it was probably too excitable for her to keep it under control.
They're both asleep now but I want to jump up n down screaming.

I realise it's still really early days but for today it's just wonderful.

posted 01-13-2004 07:21 AM         

It seems like Nala tends to lose it around the cats precisely when they start growling. As long as they are silent, she manages to quiver and behave. But as soon as they make a noise, she's all over them. Or when they move too fast. She likes movement.

She also is upset when I feed them. Apparently she is the only critter in the house who deserves to eat.

I consider the self-control issue to be the most basic issue in training her. When she learns it, all the rest of the commands will be so much easier. It is the basis for EVERYTHING else she needs to learn.

I am trying to shift my work schedule so I can get off 15 minutes early so I have time to swing by the house on my way to pick up the kids and get Nala. It will be chaos at the beginning, but I am going to attempt to teach her to stay in control in the school parking lot with all the children running all over the place.

It would be easier to do from a distance, but I can't take her to the neighborhood school and watch the kids from across the street because they let out 10 minutes before my kids' school does. So we are just going to wade right in and give it a try.

Prong collar or Gentle Leader....that is the question.

Jamiya

posted 01-13-2004 07:39 AM         

I'd never heard of a prong collar till I came to this site, not even sure if we can buy them here, so I'm no help there I'm afraid. Whichever you choose, good luck.
I'd put her in a sit/down stay then stand on her leash so I had both hands free. Do you use treats still? Floob jumps up EVERYONE & EVERYTHING nomatter how hard I try to keep him down. His trainer taught me about offering him treats as people pass and in busy situations as his attention stays on me then... well that's the theory. It works 80% of the time I'd say. (I know you've probably tried this but it's worth a go if you haven't)

posted 01-13-2004 07:54 AM         

My trainer told me to not use treats anymore for obedience, and to only use them for training tricks. She's also the one who showed me how to use the prong collar. But I also disagree with some of her methods based on what I have read of Suzanne Clothier's methods. I am pretty much muddling through my own way at this point, integrating things that make sense to me and Nala.

Treats are a good idea, but no matter how food oriented Nala is, other people and dogs override it in her. I used to try to use treats to get her to walk next to me when out for a walk, but she could never even see them in my hand, even if I waved it in front of her nose.

I am going to do what I do with the cats and what I did at agility last night. I tell her to sit, and tug on the leash gently to remind her, and tap her back end if that isn't getting through. I put her back every time she leaps up, until I release her with "Okay."

I know how it will go this afternoon. She won't even be able to hear me. She will leap around like a salmon on the end of a fishing line. I will physically put her in a sit and she will quiver and jump all over and nip at my hands. But I will be persistent and day by day she will improve a few seconds at a time.

For today, I will stop at the far end of the crosswalk and let the kids come to me. I should be late enough by the time I get there that some of the chaos will have cleared out. As Nala gets better, I will bring her right into the middle of the kids, who will all be clamoring around asking to pet her. Once she learns this lesson, she will be awesome.

As Maisey said, "Patience, Persistence and consistency."

Jamiya