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Author Topic:   I NEED HELP, PLEASE!!
athomeinak
New Member

Posts: 9
From:Anchorage, AK
Registered: Oct 2003

posted 10-29-2003 11:01 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for athomeinak     Edit/Delete Message
I was actually doing a search for something that would keep my dogs from peeing in the house and came across your site. Hopefully someone here will have some answers for me. This is pretty long, so please bear with me. Here is the scenario:

Until about 2 months ago, I only had two dogs. I had 4 but I lost my black lab to a car in Aug 2001 and my other sweet little Tiny died in my arms at the age of 18 on Feb 14, 2002. I've had my male Papillion since 1997 and my female black Pom since 1998. In Sep of this year, I got another Papillion male from a registered breeder who had rescued him from a puppy mill. He has a pedigree 4 generations back, but I could care less about this. He was born in 1999 according to his papers, so he is about 4 years old. Here are my problems:

1. He is not sociable. I think he was badly abused. When I first got him, he would try to snap and bite me when I tried to pick him up and he would go into a defensive position if cornered. He nailed me pretty good a few days after I got him (I was even wearing leather gloves, but he still tore the skin through the gloves). Since he is pretty small (about 6 lbs), he had backed up into the corner of my deck and was in danger of falling through the rails and down about 6 feet. I grabbed the closest thing on hand to scoot his behind away from the edge. This just happened to be my daughter's toy fishing pole. I was already bleeding profusely from the wound he had inflicted and I did not want to get nailed again. Anyhow, when I got the fishing pole within reach of his butt, he turned around and attacked the end. Figure maybe he's been beat alot where he was at before.

Well, it's been a little over a month now and he seems to be getting better. He will come in the house now (stayed outside for 5 straight days and nights when he first got here) and even sit up on the back of the couch like my other two. He will let me hold him and pet him now, but he stays all tensed up in my arms and will not relax. He will only let me hold him if I catch him, though. If I am not quick enough, he is off the couch and out of the house (doggie door) in about two seconds flat. When I do get him, he is uncomfortable the entire time and can't wait to get away. I talk to him all the time, telling him he's a good dog and hold and pet him as much as he will allow.

2. My other Pap (fixed) has always peed on one corner of my fireplace in my house. Figured that whomever owned the house before had a dog that peed there and he was just covering it up. The new Pap (has appt on 12 Nov to get snipped) pees everywhere in the house; the fireplace corner, the corner of the bannister, the corner of my bed, the corner of the garbage can, corner of the clothes basket, a wal-mart bag if I leave it on the floor when I bring my stuff in from the car, spray bottle of carpet cleaner if its there, the couch..pretty much anywhere he can lift his leg. Pap #1 now sees it as his duty to cover up Pap #2's pee. I have tried all kinds of products, including Natures Miracle, to no avail. I just ordered another product from the web called prokleen and I am waiting for it to arrive in the mail. My entire upstairs smells like a kennel (he won't go downstairs for some reason) because I can't ever seem to keep up with where these two have had dueling pee contests. When I first got him, he would also poop in the house, but not in a pile...he would put his butt up against the wall and smear it. I think this comes from being in a cage almost his entire life and he probably tried to get it through the cage holes/fencing so it would not fall where he slept. He has not done this now in about three weeks.

Does anyone have any ideas of:

1. How to get Pap#2 to trust, not take off like I am going to beat the living tar out of him and relax?

2. How to get him to quit peeing on everything short of locking him outside or in his crate?

3. Get Pap #1 to quit peeing over Pap #2?

4. Know of a product besides NM to clean, neutralize and sanitize urine THAT ACTUALLY WORKS?

5. Know of a product that I can spray, pour or whatever on my carpet/furniture/garbage can/bed that will keep both of them from peeing on the area?

Winter's here, so it's not like I can open the windows to air out the house right now. Any help or advice would be great. I am at my wit's end. Thank you.

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susan_cude@hotmail.com
unregistered
posted 10-29-2003 11:19 PM           Edit/Delete Message
Hi, Sounds like you have your hands full! The only way I know to teach a dog to pee outside is to kennel him or her. "or them" I know it sound cruel, but it's not, and it's a good solution. Leave them in the kennel unless you are feeding, playing or taking them outside. About every hour take them outside and say just a word cammand "potty" after a while they will begin to understand what you want from them. It shouldn't take too long, about a week. Next for the odor: mix a little lemon juice, backing soda and amonia in a bottle and clean your carpets, fireplace and whatever else you need to with it. I have no idea what you should do with the poor abused dog, I'm not an expert, so i don't feel comfortable giving you advise in this area...sorry! Hope all goes well! Susan
P.S. There are alott of helpful people on this site that I know will be able to help you...they helped me....

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Jamiya
Member

Posts: 1392
From:
Registered: Sep 2003

posted 10-30-2003 08:31 AM     Click Here to See the Profile for Jamiya     Edit/Delete Message
Do NOT use ammonia! I believe that is one of the big no-no's as it will just make them use that spot more. I use something called Get Serious that I buy at PetSmart.

I second the advise for crate training. Leave him in the crate when you are not watching him closely. Take him outside every hour, and after he eats, sleeps, or plays. Teach him a command to go potty. A week is probably way too optimistic - with a dog with these problems everything takes longer.

Again, you will need to wait for others to help you with the fear issues. It sounds to me like you are doing things right - it will just take a LOT of time. Go slow and let him set the pace.


Jamiya

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NewLabOwnr
Member

Posts: 169
From:New York, USA
Registered: Aug 2003

posted 10-30-2003 10:26 AM     Click Here to See the Profile for NewLabOwnr     Edit/Delete Message
Wow poor athom.. but good for you for trying to seek advice instead of giving up! I'm afraid it sounds like crate training might not work. You thought he had spent a lot of time in a kennel, he might have gotten used to eliminating in there. However I think it is your best bet, and can't hurt to try right? Make sure you keep the crate very small, just enough for the little guy to lay down and turn around. It sounds like this is tough issue because reprimading the dog for eliminating in the house will only make things go backwards on the "fear" issue. I'm so sorry I don't have any good advice. Hopefully the forum "experts" will be able to help you out. Maybe you could try contacting a trainer or speak to you vet they might have some helpful advice.


Good luck and keep us informed

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debslegacyofgold
Member

Posts: 56
From:Post Falls,Idaho
Registered: Oct 2003

posted 10-30-2003 02:44 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for debslegacyofgold     Edit/Delete Message
Gosh i feel sorry for you! its real hard to break that marking thier territory habit but it is possible. i agree with the crate training technich also..not to mention beings he is not very social he may feel more comfy running to his crate instead of outside...its kind of like thier room...my dogs go strait to their kennel when something worries them they know it is their safe place , i always keep a few toys and a bone or two in there to give them something to do when they have to be in there.Its real hard to get rid of the pee smell out of your carpet and carpet padding...i use this mixture..seems to work.....1 bottle rubbing alcohal,1 teaspoon dish soap, 1/2 cup ammonia...mine have not peed in that spot since i used this...i think the alcohal evaporates the urine. but it does work!! also is a great homemade glass cleaner..no streaks..hehe!!goodluck!

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Cowgirls live hard, ride hard,and love forever!!

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puttin510
Member

Posts: 1179
From:,Calif. U.S.A.
Registered: Dec 2002

posted 10-30-2003 04:21 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for puttin510     Edit/Delete Message
It sounds like your dog is like some others I have heard of. He is not used to being handled much or never has been. He has been raised basically with his outside pack. The people I know of that deal with dogs like this have to use the wait till hes ready to come to you rememdy. when he see's the other dogs being very happy getting their back scratched etc. he will want that too. Or you can do the leash version. Its where you get a long lead and attach it to your belt buckle and everywhere you go, he has to go. He will learn eventually that there is nothing to be afraid of. The downfall, is these dogs need alot of time to adapt. I'm talking months possibly a year or so. But with patience he can be a good pet. My poodle had(sometimes still does) bite issues. She is from a shelter. I don't know what sort or life she had before. But I can tell you I do know for a fact that a little dog can bite very hard. One other thing, do not for any reason let your guard down with this dog for a few years. Until you can read him fully. I let my guard down and got bit right square in the lip.(stitches included) Thats where they nip other dogs to show who's boss. So don't get kissy face with him. I still keep an eye on her, but am able to give kisses after 3 years. The dog really needs time to adjust. Is this dog an Alpha in your opinion?. Small alpha dogs are sometimes hard to deal with. They need a firm owner. Make sure everyone in the household abides by the same set of rules that you want the dog to follow. I notice you have had him only a little over a month. Neutering is supposed to put a damper on the need to anoint all household items. Check into items that smell bad to dogs. My boss uses purfume to keep his cat from scratching his newly upolstered chair. Let us know about his updates.

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athomeinak
New Member

Posts: 9
From:Anchorage, AK
Registered: Oct 2003

posted 10-30-2003 09:34 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for athomeinak     Edit/Delete Message
Thanks everyone for replying. My mom used ammonia for years on her carpet and my parents finally took out the carpet and put in parquet flooring because she could never get the smell out.

I just got the ProKleen in the mail today, so I am checking it out to see how it does.. will keep you informed on that if anyone wants to know.

Pap #1 was similiar to Pap #2 when I got him from the pound, but not as bad. He had been badly abused as well, but he still was cute...got up on his hind legs in the crate at the pound and then begged his little heart out...how could I resist? When I took him to the vet that first day, he checked out fine.... he would cry all night for about a week, though and when he ran, he would lift his right back leg and hold it close to his body. I took him back to the vet and he xrayed his leg...Vet told me it looked like someone had kicked him hard...resulting in a broken leg and a shattered pelvis...propably 1-3 years before I got him. So it had mended wrong and he was constantly in pain. Needless to say, I had his leg rebroken and mended and he does fine now. He will still flinch if you pat his head, and he will take off if you take clothes out of the dryer to fold or take a trash bag out to put in the garbage can... he would snap at me occasionally, but he came around after about 3 or 4 months.

I actually held and petted #2 for a long time last night and when I let him go, it took him about 20 seconds before he actually took off.

I have only reprimanded him once...when I was coming in the house and he was at the top of the stairs. He looked right at me and then lifted his leg....the nerve....... I ran up the stairs after him calling him "bad dog!!!" several time, but he took off.. that was about two weeks ago..

I figure it will take time..just have to work it out. He is definately and Alpha dog. The lady who rescued him only had him for about two months also before she gave him to me and she told me that you had to make sure he knew you were the boss and don't show fear to him, otherwise he'd take a bite every time.

I will have to try the other remedies if this prokleen doesn't work. It smells a little like licorice but only stronger and the smell (that I can smell) dissipates after a while.

Thanks again and I will keep all posted.

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susan_cude@hotmail.com
Member

Posts: 813
From:Santa Maria, Ca.
Registered: Nov 2003

posted 11-05-2003 08:34 AM     Click Here to See the Profile for susan_cude@hotmail.com     Edit/Delete Message
I'm sorry about the ammonia advise, seems it didn't go over too well. But it works for me. Think i will try that prokleen or whatever it was.....I got some advise too...Susan

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Maisey
Member

Posts: 1387
From:Portland, Oregon US
Registered: Sep 2003

posted 11-05-2003 09:56 AM     Click Here to See the Profile for Maisey     Edit/Delete Message
Susan, my mom has used vinegar and water for years, maybe thats what you were thinking?
It works ok, but I prefer the Natures Miracle.

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athomeinak
New Member

Posts: 9
From:Anchorage, AK
Registered: Oct 2003

posted 11-15-2003 11:56 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for athomeinak     Edit/Delete Message
Hi all. Tried the Prokleen. Smells terrible and does not seem to keep them from peeing there again. I also tried some of the following items:

Odormute
Petastic stain and odor remover

Odormute is a powder you mix with water. I used it in my steam machine in place of steam machine cleaner. It didn't CLEAN the carpet and while it was still wet, it smelled like a combo of wet dog and a really stinky outdoor kennel. Once it dried (the label says it will remove smell once dry) it smells fine (at least I think so). Plus they have only peed in one of their usual spots since I did this as well.

Petastic I got from the local pet place. Apparently, from what the owner told me, Petastic is made by the original manufacturer of Nature's Miracle. NM was bought out and the new manufacturer changed the ingredients, which do not work anymore(per the pet supply owner). Petastic works great on the stains and it was about $5 cheaper than the gal bottle of NM. I really don't know if it works to keep the dogs from peeing there as I used it on a few spots AFTER the Odormute and the carpet is clean again in those spots. I am going to try and clean the whole carpet tomorrow and see what happens. The local pet place also recommended the following:

Crazy Dog stain and odor remover which you can buy at
http://store.crazydog.com/index.ihtml

I ordered but have not yet received it.

The other product I ordered is called Repel Aerosol Dog and Cat Repellent from
http://www.bugspray.com/catalog/products/page1613.html

will see how this works when it comes in the mail.

One other thing the pet store recommended was this:

You know the plastic runners that you can put on your carpet high tread areas to keep your carpet new? The kind that is non slip because it has the little plastic spikes to hold it in place on your carpet? Get some and put it upside down in from of the areas where they pee. They don't like the little spikes on their feet so they won't stand on it to lift their legs. Guess what? This works GREAT!!!! I cut the 6' piece I bought in thirds lengthwise (3 each 9"x6' pieces) and put them in front of my love seat, sofa and along the wall where they were frequenting. Been there since last Sat and no new pee stains on the furniture, walls or carpet. I need to buy some more to make sure they stay away from my table and chair legs in the kitchen now.

Meanwhile, my unsociable papillon is getting a little better. I bring him in the bedroom and put him on the bed with me and the other two dogs. He will stay there for a while but he still seems nervous and takes off (when he thinks I'm not looking at him) after about ten minutes. So I hope he's becoming more accustomed and know I will not hurt or abuse him. Just have to wait and see I guess.

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