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Author Topic:   Help, my puppies are dying!
Labowner
unregistered
posted 10-17-2003 10:22 AM           Edit/Delete Message
Can someone help me? My 7yr Black Lab had puppies three nights ago. She had the first one in the yard & didn't remove the sack. We found it dead & then moved her to her nesting spot. She had a second live one & a couple hrs later we found one behind her, all clean, but not breathing. With much stimulation and a little puppy CPR he came around. She had two more which seemed fine but we found another dead one in the morning. Now of the 4 that lived, I found one dead this morning. He was fat and warm, but dead. I don't want all of them to die, can anyone help me?

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Jamiya
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posted 10-17-2003 10:35 AM     Click Here to See the Profile for Jamiya     Edit/Delete Message
I would not mess around and simply CALL A VET and get some help!!


Jamiya

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Labowner
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posted 10-17-2003 10:43 AM           Edit/Delete Message
I did call the Vet. I am waiting for a call back from him. Can you give me any advice in the mean time???

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honeybear
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posted 10-17-2003 11:16 AM     Click Here to See the Profile for honeybear     Edit/Delete Message
Can you go to an emergency vet or call one that is in your area in stead of waiting for the regular vet to call you back?

Honeybear

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charmedagain
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Posts: 790
From:uk
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posted 10-17-2003 11:52 AM     Click Here to See the Profile for charmedagain     Edit/Delete Message
Is this her first litter.. The puppy tha twas behind her sounds like she may have lay on the pup and its sufficated,But for puppies to be dying shortly after birth indicates something is wrong.. If this is her first litter then she won't know what to do...

Emergancy advice should be sought ASAP.

Was this a planned pregnancy ???
If not do you know the kind of dog she mated with???

Spaying or neutering dogs that are not for breeding should be done when they are puppies...

Please keep us posted of how things are going

mike

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Labowner
unregistered
posted 10-17-2003 03:34 PM           Edit/Delete Message
Mike,
Yes, it's her first litter. We don't really have an emergency vet where I live. I'm kind of out in the boonies. I called the vet again and then paged the only other one in town. I'm hoping he calls me but am looking for some advice in case he doesn't. Yes, it was planned and I know to have a dog neutered if it's not intended for breeding. Why do people assume you're stupid if you need help? She was mated to a full blooded yellow lab, she is a full blooded, papered, black lab. Do you think I should take her puppies away? I have noticed that they have some feces on their hind ends, like maybe she is not really cleaning them like she should. I have some milk replacer and bottles, but I'm under the impression that once you take them away, there is no going back. What do you think?
Sharon

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honeybear
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Posts: 926
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posted 10-17-2003 04:11 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for honeybear     Edit/Delete Message
Sharon, I am sorry for your frustration, you are looking for help here and the previous post, having nothing to do with the help you need now. Can an assistant in the vet office help you. It does sound look the pups are being smothered, has the mother feed them, she will clean after they have nursed and if they have feces on them this sounds like it is not being done. If you take the pups away be prepared to feed very few hours

Care of Newborn Puppies and Kittens
uring the first 4 weeks of life, puppies and kittens depend on their mother completely for warmth, nutrition, waste elimination, and hygiene. During this critical time, the owner must observe the puppies or kittens carefully to detect problems. Immediate veterinary care is critical for any sick puppy or kitten.

Warmth: During the first few weeks of life, puppies and kittens may easily become chilled. A room temperature of 70 F is recommended. If the bitch or queen is ill or absent, then the temperature in the infant's immediate environment should be 80 to 85 F. The normal body temperature of the newborn is 96 to 97 F, and reaches 100 F by 4 weeks of age. Indirect heat such as that provided by a heat lamp or warm water bottles may be used if needed. Care must be taken not to burn or overheat the neonates.

Body Weight: Puppies and kittens should be weighed every day. A failure to gain weight or loss of weight requires immediate veterinary attention.

Nutrition: Well-fed puppies and kittens sleep contentedly after nursing and have full (not bloated) abdomens. Excessive crying or restlessness, especially after nursing, indicates a problem. If needed, supplemental feeding of a puppy or kitten formula can be prescribed. Esophageal feeding tubes are often used in newborns who are weak or sick, and your veterinarian can instruct you how to perform this type of feeding.

Care and Feeding of the Newborn Puppy

The most critical period of a dog's life is during the first week. The early care and environment of the newborn puppy are of the utmost importance. Early causes of death can usually be attributed to difficult whelping, congenital or genetic defects, environmental factors (i.e., too cool or drafty), carelessness of the dam, infection, viruses, toxic milk or insufficient nourishment.


Things to always keep on hand in case of an emergency: a box of Amoxi-Drops (a broad spectrum antibiotic that needs to be reconstituted with water), anti-biotic ointment, anti-diarrhea medication (such as Biosol, Kaolin-Pectin, or Neo-Pectilin), thermometer, Vaseline,anf Karo syrup or honey, tube feeding kit (#10 feeding tube, with 10cc feeding syringe), and several cans of puppy formula, such as Esbilac (even though I prefer a homemade formula for normal supplementation, many times during an emergency there isn't enough time to mix formula). It is very important that a puppy get its mothers milk if at all possible during the first 2 days to protect it from infection and give it antibodies from the mothers milk.


Because puppies cannot maintain or regulate body temperature on their own, they are completely dependent upon their environment for the first couple weeks of life. A puppy's normal temperature at birth is approximately 94 degrees. During the first week, a normal temperature should be between 94 and 98 degrees (it increases gradually every day). By 3 weeks old, the temperature should be 99 to 100 degrees. After 3 weeks, it should be approaching the normal body temperature for an adult dog (101.5).


Because of this inability to maintain body temperature, the greatest danger during the first week of life, is chilling. Books on newborn puppies suggest keeping the environment 90 to 95 degrees, but most breeders will tell you this is way too hot. Keeping the room around 80-84 degrees (with no drafts) for the first few days is usually adequate. The puppies of course, get their best radiant heat from the dam! Other sources of warmth can be heating pads or heat lamps. If using a heating pad, monitor the intensity of heat, as pups have been known to cook on pads set on high settings. There are many excellent heat lamps on the market. Heat lamps have been known to start fires. The temperature on the puppies (1 inch above the bottom of the box) should be about 85-88 degrees with a corner that is slightly cooler and allow them to scoot to where there feeling the best at. There should also be plenty of clean blankets and this will allow for regulation of temperature. If a puppy has its mouth open its to hot. If a puppy is to cool it often won't show anything but can be deadly.


Hydration is one of the most important things to monitor in new pups, as it can be one of the first signs of trouble. This can be checked by pinching the skin on the back of the neck or on the top of the back. If the pinched skin stays creased, the puppy is dehydrated and needs fluid replacement. Also a dehydrated pup's coat will sometimes have a ruffled or scruffy appearance Dehydration can either be a result of inadequate nourishment, too much heat or a result of sickness. Accompanied by diarrhea and/or vomiting, it can be dangerous and fatal.


For the first couple of days after birth, check the bitch's milk supply to make sure that she has an adequate amount for feeding the litter. If a puppy pulls on the nipple and cries out in frustration, check the milk. This can be done by gently squeezing the breasts below the nipple. Milk should flow freely! Sometimes a bitch will have adequate milk on the day of whelping, but the second day it will disappear, only to return on the next day. Also following C-Sections, the milk can be really slow to come in. If the litter is small in number, be sure to check the breasts, by making sure that all are being used and emptied. Beware of breasts that are hot to the touch and have a packed "hard" feeling. If milk is not cleared out regularly, you run the risk of an infection developing. Breasts have been known to abscess. It's a good idea to check the bitch's temperature the first couple of days following whelping. Anything over 103 degrees, should be looked at with great suspicion!


Approximate dosage: Amounts will vary depending on whether the litter is being completely hand-raised or supplemented, along with the dam's milk. If completely hand-raising, (no milk from the dam), the amounts should be greater. The younger and smaller puppy will need more frequent feedings. The bigger the puppy, the greater amounts that can be fed. For a puppy under 7 ounces: 1-2 cc of formula, every 2 to 3 hours. Over 7 ounces, 2-3 cc per every 2-3 hours. This will be enough food during the first 3-7 days, increase amounts slowly as needed. It is very important to not overfeed. If the puppy is overfed and vomits or has formula come out of its nose, it runs the risk of inhaling the formula, which can result in inhalant pneumonia. Tube feeding (see below) is the safest and quickest method for puppy feeding. Careful of eyedroppers........they are not recommended. Not only do they afford a tremendous risk, but also they are slow and laborious. They can be used in a pinch if nothing else is available, but they need to be used carefully and not if you intend to hand-raise an entire litter. Care also needs to be taken with bottle-feeding. Not only does it take a great amount of time, but the nipple flow can be difficult to regulate. Plus, it has a tendency of allowing air in the stomach.


Regarding tube feeding: For reasons such as, mastitis, no milk, death of the mother or just plain supplementing big litters, etc., tube feeding may be required. Tube feeding is the safest and easiest way to supplement or hand raise a litter. Contrary to popular myth, it is extremely difficult to get a tube into the lungs. If a tube were to get into a lung the puppy would immediately go into coughing spasms. You do have to watch a tube doubling back, which is why we hate the small flimsy tubes (such as #8) and you also have to make sure the tube is inserted far enough into the stomach. Take the tube, measure from the nose, up over the ear and down to the last rib and that is the distance to insert it. 1-2 cc is plenty to feed puppies the first 12 feedings every few hours apart. Also be careful how quickly you press the plunger of the syringe. It should be pressed slowly and once all the formula is expelled, the tube should be removed quickly. Milk bubbling from the nose means the puppy is being over fed. This method killed more puppies when food was allowed to come back up. When milk bubbles from the nose, you run the risk of overfeeding the puppy and of causing inhalation pneumonia. The amount of formula tubed into puppies, especially small pups, should be carefully regulated (small amounts more often). It is safer to underfeed than overfeed.


Assist the mother in feeding:
Bulldog mothers usually don''t make the best nursing mothers. Always be with them when the Mom is in the box. Help lay her down and bring the puppies to the mothers nipples, squeeze each nipple slightly to get a drop or two of milk out and rub the nose/mouth of the puppy to it and assist in getting him latched on. Make sure the head is always elevated slightly to avoid the milk flushing back out the nose or mouth. Use a small towel propped under the puppy to do this. When finished make sure the mother "POOPS" the puppies by placing there rear end to her mouth and she should lick them until they eliminate. Clean well and return to warm box and remove mother from box area. If hand raising put a small dab of Vaseline on your finger and rub the genitals of the puppies until they eliminate. Don't rub real hard, kind of about the same pressure as you would use to rub your own eye. Clean the puppies well.

There a lot ofpeople here who have bred dogs and I hope they can help you ASAP

Good luck
HOneybear

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Labowner
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posted 10-17-2003 04:39 PM           Edit/Delete Message
I think I love you Honeybear! Thank you. Yes, I think she is smothering them too. She does seem to be nursing them as they are very fat and seem to be content. They will lay all over the carrier they are in with her and when I move them to her the suckle and this dosen't seem to bother her. She ever licks them a bit. I have found them behind her on more than one occasion though. Do you think I should take them away from her?
Sharon

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honeybear
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posted 10-17-2003 05:01 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for honeybear     Edit/Delete Message
Sharon, I spoke to my husband has had had several litters. He said you should take the pups away and bring back to her for feeding, that the mom is probably exhausted and is not noticing what she is doing. If you do this they need to be keep warm by using either a hot water bottle or heating pad - at about 80 degress but make sure it is not too hot, THIS IS IMPORTANT becasue they could become too hot and they could die make sure there are towels over whatever you are heating with. And to talk with your vet ASAP

Good luck

Honeybear

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Labowner
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posted 10-17-2003 07:46 PM           Edit/Delete Message
Honeybear,
Thank you so much. My husband and I came up with the same solution, but you don't know how good it is to have someone who has done this already confirm our decision. Tonight we are moving them into the house again and will keep the puppies close to her, but in their own box with a heating pad. I will check the temp before we leave them there for any length of time. I understand from what you posted earlier that it is good to have a cold corner so we will do that. You are a God-send...really.

Sharon

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wolfsoul
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From:Kelowna, BC, Canada
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posted 10-17-2003 07:48 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for wolfsoul     Edit/Delete Message
I'm glad that you are getting things under control. Now let's get her spayed ASAP!!!

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Labowner
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posted 10-17-2003 08:46 PM           Edit/Delete Message
I think I will get her spayed now. I had always intended to breed her as she has such a beautiful temperment and excellent papers. No hip problems...etc. but, now that she has had such a hard time I am thinking that maybe she is just not a breeding dog. I never bred her before because I was not in a situation that lent itself to her comfort. I have to say that I am dissapointed though. If any dog should have puppies, it's her. She is the gentelist thing I have ever seen and she is loyal to a fault. The loss of her puppies is that much more devistating because I know that thoes that remain will be great dogs. You just don't find that often in purebreds, but...such is life, huh? Thanks for helping my baby. The vet is yet to call, but we have three beautiful puppies in a seperate box next to her and will be feeding ALL night. Can't thank you enough. You should be a vet.
Sharon

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Maisey
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From:Portland, Oregon US
Registered: Sep 2003

posted 10-18-2003 08:52 AM     Click Here to See the Profile for Maisey     Edit/Delete Message
OK I started to answer this post a couple times, and then deleted it. I'm glad that Honeybear stepped in and gave advice for the pups and I will probably get yelled at for what I'm gonna say, but this is the perfect example of irresponsible breeding! Every breeder has had a first litter so thats not my issue. If you are going to breed a dog it takes more than a set of papers, good hips and a nice temperment. A person breeding a dog, especially for the first time should have at leaste done their homework in the problems than can occur before, durring and after birth. There should have been at leaste one person you could have called for guidance, if your vet still hasn't called you back...I'd find a new damn vet! The availability of the vet should have been known prior to breeding. Another experienced breeder could have mentored you through this, perhaps the person with the stud dog could have helped. I called my aunt who has bred Great Danes for many years and read her the posts, her response was "I live out in the middle of nowhere and I could still find a vet, if she doesn't want to take action theres not much you can do". You could have at leaste called one long distance and spoke over the phone for advice. She also said you were not prepared as evidenced by the fact that you found pups outside, and that she had had the opportunity to lay on some and smother them. She said paying attention is paramount and you obviously were not doing that. I agree. Being in tune with your dog and paying attention would have meant you noticed when she was getting close to delivery, you should have been watching her like a hawk. You would not have been asking questions about whether it was alright taking the pups away if you had done your homework. You would have known if the reason they had feces on their hindends was because mom wasn't cleaning them...you would have been watching and wouldn't have had to guess about it. Asking questions is always the smart thing to do, WHEN you ask them is paramount. You said: "Why do people assume you're stupid if you need help? " What would Forrest Gump say to this I wonder.....It wasn't that he thought you were stupid...he thought you were uninformed and unprepared. It was obvious from your posts you didn't have a clue what you were doing. Again, my issue is in that you didn't educate yourself in preparation for this undertaking, and when something went wrong...again you had to come to a message board for help because you obviously did not set yourself up with an avenue of guidance. I'm sorry to sound so harsh, but it's how I honestly feel and I know others feel the same way they just aren't so blunt to say it. Maybe you can refrain from letting defensiveness take over long enough to read the real message in my words.
I hope the puppies are still doing better....Maisey

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Jas

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posted 10-18-2003 10:39 AM     Click Here to See the Profile for Jas     Edit/Delete Message
Hi Labowner,

The puppies must stay warm and dry - indoors!! You need to watch, and weigh them daily to make sure they are getting enough food from mom (record the info so you know for sure). Do you have a scale? Is mom in a whelping box? The whelping box needs to have rails up around the inside edges so she won't lie or roll on the pups and squash them accidentally.

Not all new mothers know what to do right away. When birthing the pups someone needed to help her remove the sacs quickly so they could breathe. The pups don't have long before they will suffocate. The pups should also have been rubbed for stimulation and checked to make sure their airway is clear. Check the others for cleft palates /blockages to make sure they are all clear. You still need a vet to come out because he needs to check the pups but also he needs to make sure there aren't anymore puppies stuck inside mom. If there are she will go toxic and she and the nursing pups will die. Because some pups have died since then it could be a virus or another problem -- the vet will know.

I don't take my pups away from mom *at all* The only time I remove them is when I put them in a basket with a warm hot water bottle underneath a towel to change bedding or when mom goes outside to do her business. Do you have a heat lamp? They need constant and regulated heat. Don't mistake Honeybears post they do not need a "cold" corner, they CANNOT regulate their body temperature on their own yet - AT ALL. Set the heat lamp on one side of the whelping box the other side will remain "slightly cooler", and if mom and babies are too warm mom will move and the babies will spread out. If they are cold they will huddle up.

I recommend keeping her with the pups, they will sleep a lot and she will too. Some mothers may panic and become stressed if not able to be with her babies. She will clean them and you must make sure she is licking their bottoms and *area* Right now they cannot pee & poop on their own and moms licking stimulates them to go. If she is not doing this then you need to step in and gently rub the areas. When she licks them this also stimulates them to feed.

Please get them looked at by a vet, we need to make sure there are no more puppies inside mom and that everyone is healthy! Glad you asked for help, now lets make sure the other pups and mom stay strong!

best of luck and keep us updated

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charmedagain
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From:uk
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posted 10-18-2003 02:57 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for charmedagain     Edit/Delete Message
Maisey you hit the nail on the head there.

I don't agree with breeding unless every aspect of breeding is read into there is so much that can and will go wrong.

A vet shuld be on hand incase anything does go wrong.

The last 2 weeks of prengancy she should have been watched like a hawk, Not saying she shouldnt have been watched like that during whole preganacy but last 2 weeks are crutial...

Labowner i was not saying you were stupid, I was just saying that a vet should have been called even if it was 80 miles away..

I am not saying that you shouldnt breed i am just saying that all this should have been prepared for..

1 more thing 7 year old is a little old to be letting your bitch have puppies as the older the dog the more of a strain its putting on her body...

Sorry if i offended you but there is to many people out there thinking that breeding will make them money, What they dont realise is this is when it gets expensive as all the vet bills start to mount up.

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Labowner
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posted 10-19-2003 03:45 PM           Edit/Delete Message
Maisey, Charmedagain, etc.
Thank you for taking time to answer my questions. I'm not offended at you answers to my questions, as I asked them of course and did not expect love and affection, but answers. I hope it helps to know that I spoke with my vet before we bred her, again when she was bred and a couple of days before she gave birth. I knew she should be having them that day or the next. She had a box on our covered porch as the vet said it was still warm enough that she didn't need to be inside. The puppy she had on the ground was only about 5 minutes old when we found him...we were outside with her at the time. I feel horrible for missing her having him there, but I was expecting it, that's why I followed where she went. I have bred a few other dogs without problem and I understand your obvious outrage. When I spoke with my vet about breeding her at age 7, he assured me that she was still well within breeding age. This was my first experience with him as my vet during breeding and I didn't realize that he may not call me back. I did speak with his office staff, who were generally not helpful. He called me the next morning, and for the record, I found a "new damn vet". I also paged another vet and I have a close friend who is also a dog breeder who I called for help, but was unable to get him on the line. Maybe I didn't research to the point that I was a scholar, but I did have a good idea of what was happening due to my previous reading. I just wasn't sure until I lost the second one. The first could have been stillborn. I did stay with her throughout the birthing and even remove the sac on one of the puppies that she didn't. I'm sorry that you feel that I wasn't attentive enough, but I did my best. I feel like I did all of the things that you said, but I still had problems. I had paged the vet, called another, and called my friend and was waiting for a reply when I posted the first message. Since I had never had a bitch smother a pup, I was not sure that I was reading the signs correctly and I needed some confirmation right then, not in 30 mins to an hour. I thought that's what a forum like this was for. For eveyone that is not completely annoyed, let me say thank you again. I put the pups in a low sided box next to the bitch that night and stayed on the floor next to them and her all night. She got the rest she needed and as she became less exhausted, she began to take care of them. Now they are fully reunited, and still under our close watch. My friend that breeds says that this is a controversial issue as taking the pups away can be as deadly for them as her smothering them. He said what we did was the best thing to do and so we did. I do have a scale and the pups are gaining as they should and we have left the heating mat in the box with them for good measure. I had all the information on what to do and how to care for them monthes ahead of time, I just wasn't sure if I should do that. She is cleaning them and is exceptionally attentive and the new vet says some new mothers just become complacent when they are overstressed and exhausted. Honestly, no offense, but I would pay a million dollars to a vet to make sure my dog was well taken care of and I don't really care to make money. We probably won't even sell them, but intend to give them to several people that my husband works with. Thanks for your honesty and your answers. I know it takes time to post them and I can appreciate that your patient enough to answer someone who sounds like they have been negligent. Rest assured that she is my BABY and we have done and will continue to do all we can for her and I would not have bred her without doing my homework first.

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Labowner
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posted 10-19-2003 05:00 PM           Edit/Delete Message
I have been thinking it over and here's my point...

I am a professional breeder by no means, but I have bred dogs before. I have read quite a bit and spoke with my vet like I was supposed to.

When things went wrong, I didn't trust my instincts because I don't have excessive experience in this area. I felt that I needed help right away and someone to confirm my suspisions. Honeybear took the time to do that and ignored the fact that I sounded like I had no idea what I was doing.

If your goal is to help younger breeders become better breeders, you have missed your mark.

I AM a professional breeder of livestock, however, and I have to say that I would never respond as yall have (HB and a few other excluded). Most of the time you will not have all the facts. I would never respond to someone asking a question about breeding lambs by saying "your asking too late, and aren't we all annoyed with you for getting yourself into something you weren't ready for?". Gentel guidance is the idea. Help.

Maybe there are people out there who haven't done their homework, who need help in the final hour. Don't you want to be there for them too? It's not their dog's fault that they are stupid or unprepared. You certainly don't provide much of an incentive for them to ask you for it.

Education is the key. You can't educate someone who won't listen because you have been so completley caustic in your response. They will turn you off and walk away. Is that really your goal?

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debslegacyofgold
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Posts: 56
From:Post Falls,Idaho
Registered: Oct 2003

posted 10-19-2003 05:50 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for debslegacyofgold     Edit/Delete Message
I too have been breeding horses for quite a few years and i would have never given advice like that..it wasnt even advice it was ridicule and a lecture session..(except those who took the time to put excellent help..i took it all into mind and if i would have had printer would have printed it to put in my folder for raising animals .great advice). But the others that all they did was judge and say what the person with the problem already new ..find something helpful to say please or dont anwser the posts why waist your time if you cant be helpful or at least nice! goodluck with your puppies im so glad things are working out for you and glad you did get some great advice!!

------------------
Cowgirls live hard, ride hard,and love forever!!

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Karriesue
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From:Nellis AFB, Nevada
Registered: Jun 2003

posted 10-19-2003 09:42 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for Karriesue     Edit/Delete Message
Deb- You need to remember that this message board isn't just for advice, it is also for opinions. When you post a topic it is open for anyone to post advice or an opinion. Just because someone posts something you didn't want to hear or don't agree with doesn't mean you go around this message board spinning to everyone that will listen that some people here are judgemental, mean, they ridicule people, etc. The people here are good people, helpful and sometimes they will offer a strong opinion. It is up to you to either take the advice or opinion or not to take it and go on with life like an adult. If you don't like what you hear than you swallow it, ignore it, and go on. To go around and post about your disagreements with people and their opinions/advice on the message board is not called for.

[This message has been edited by Karriesue (edited 10-19-2003).]

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Jamiya
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posted 10-20-2003 04:53 AM     Click Here to See the Profile for Jamiya     Edit/Delete Message
I have to say that I agreed with Maisey, until I thought more about it.

I would have read and studied so much that I was a "scholar" as Labowner put it, but I do that with everything I undertake and I think that is pretty unusual. I also don't automatically trust what a vet tells me. I research it and get second opinions, etc. Again, I think that is unusual, but I have had too many vets and doctors tell me things that are just WRONG. They are people, too, and just because they are vets or doctors doesn't mean they are smart.

However, even with reading and extensive preparation, the reality is always different. Nothing substitutes for experience, and the only way you can gain that is by doing. Having another breeder to mentor you is great, but they might not be available when you really need them.

I know it's not the same thing, but when I bred my mice the first (only) time, I was in a panic when they were born and I wasn't sure the mom was taking care of them. I had read and studied and prepared and STILL I hit the panic button. Turns out everything was fine, but boy was I a wreck and posting up a storm on multiple forums!

So anyway, I'm glad the rest of the puppies are doing well.


Jamiya

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honeybear
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posted 10-20-2003 10:43 AM     Click Here to See the Profile for honeybear     Edit/Delete Message
I am glad to hear your pups are doing okay - good luck

Honeybear

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susan_cude@hotmail.com
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posted 10-20-2003 10:44 PM           Edit/Delete Message
Hi! I just found this site and posted a question. But now after reading how you were treated, I'm sorry I did. I think you did the best you could have under the circumstances.... I hope that the rest of your puppies will be fine...I'm a praying woman, so I will be praying for you and your's.....GOOD LUCK! Susan_cude@hotmail.com

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charmedagain
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From:uk
Registered: Aug 2003

posted 10-21-2003 03:41 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for charmedagain     Edit/Delete Message
I am sorry if you were offended by what me or anyone else said in the posts.
A pregnant, whelping, or lactating bitch should be monitored at all times as things can go wrong and can happen suddenly.

I have never let any of my dogs give birth anywhere apart from indoors where i can keep a close eye on them and there litters.

The second any of them show signs of illness or distress i call the vet imediatly if i cant get hold of my vet i ring another practice and have a vet either come out if i cant get the dog/puppy to them or to get advice over the phone...

I was not implying you do not know what your doing because you have bred before but no 2 pregnancies or births are ever the same.

A bitch can concieve and give birth up until there about 12 but doesnt make it right to breed them yes a 7yr old may be in top condition and so people may continue to breed from her, But what they are not aware of is the stresses and strains its putting on the bitch and the higher the risk is of ovarian cancers, mammary tumours and so on.

As bitches usually whelp between 58-63 days they should be watched more 2 weeks before there due date as some bitches can and will go into early whelp resulting in either very weak puppies or puppies that will die shortly after birth.

Also a first time mother should be closely watched as her maturnal instincts may not kick in and she will not know what is going on or happening there for resulting in puppies that are not cleaned from there amniotic sac's and sufficate or mothers that wont feed them because she doesnt know what these little things are squirming around her...

Also these boards are here for people wanting advice yes they will get some of us that tell them they being irresponsible but we also still give out advice..

So again sorry if you were offended

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airforce615
New Member

Posts: 5
From:
Registered: Oct 2003

posted 10-21-2003 05:03 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for airforce615     Edit/Delete Message
Airforce16 - This is totally unacceptable here. And this will be dealt with accordingly
RottyMommy

[This message has been edited by RottyMommy (edited 10-21-2003).]

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Labowner
unregistered
posted 10-24-2003 10:55 AM           Edit/Delete Message
Debs, that is exactly what I did. I printed it out. Some of the info I got was almost word for word what was in my breeding book. Thank you for your prayers, Susan, and I will pray that God blesses you as well.

Sheba (my dog) is doing beautifully now as are the three pups that survived. They are big and fat from all that extra milk.

Let me say again, that I'm not offended, Charmed, just thought some of yall might want to think about what your putting out there. I know the board is for opinions (I hate lima beans, and I think Bill Clinton is a jerk, by the way), but maybe you could give advice first and then opinion. I still appreciate all the responses, cause I just needed someone to hold my hand through the first bad litter, and I did get that. Thanks again for taking your time.

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mateybubbles
unregistered
posted 10-28-2003 07:42 AM           Edit/Delete Message
Wow labrador owner, poor you is all I can say... opinions yes, fine but what a stressful time you have had! Perhaps the more negative criticism could've waited until the immdediate crisis was over! I am so glad it is now and that you have some healthy puppies and your beloved Sheba has come through it all well too. I totally appreciate what you mean that however much you can prepare and however much you know, when it happens to you (and every case is different, you are lucky if yours follows an example in a scholar's book) it is still so worrying and it is so much easier if you have support, or others saying you are doing the right thing.... well done for surviving this still sane... good luck and enjoy life with Sheba when her motherhood period is through!

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susan_cude@hotmail.com
Member

Posts: 813
From:Santa Maria, Ca.
Registered: Nov 2003

posted 11-06-2003 10:36 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for susan_cude@hotmail.com     Edit/Delete Message
I just looked this up because i was wondering how the pups were doing...So glad they are all fine now...God does answer prayer....GOOD JOB!!!! Sincerely, Susan

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neek
Member

Posts: 291
From:Australia
Registered: Oct 2003

posted 11-08-2003 08:07 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for neek     Edit/Delete Message
I don't think it is anybody's fault that this unfortunate accident happened. If your dog was intended for breeding than it just might be that she was the wrong dog to do it, don't let this experience scare you off.

If you decide to breed again, make sure you are prepared next time around and it's a good idea to have your vet know when the pups are due to be born so he can be available if something goes wrong. Most bitches know what to do when it comes to whelping but some don't! You can tear the sac yourself and stimulate the puppy to breathe as well as helping the bitch to nurse when she has finished giving birth. Pups don't need to be fed straight after birth as they are usually too tired to do anything but sleep as long as they are kept warm.

It sounds like you just had a case of an inexperienced mom who didn't have a clue what to do. Talk to your vet and maybe some breeders of labs and they should be able to give you some helpful tips should you decide to breed her again.

Goodluck!

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MaydaysMom
Member

Posts: 260
From:MO, USA
Registered: Nov 2003

posted 11-08-2003 10:41 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for MaydaysMom     Edit/Delete Message
Sometimes and maybe not in your case lab... harsh critisism is necessary for some people to actually understand the severity of the situation. Otherwise it might be brushed off and ignored. Not saying that you would have or that you deserved it but I think all the posts had some very good info and sound advice.
I am very glad that your pups are doing well. Make sure to tell all of your new potential owners to spay and neuter.

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cindygirlb
Member

Posts: 22
From:
Registered: Nov 2003

posted 11-11-2003 07:27 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for cindygirlb     Edit/Delete Message
Well if I was you I would bring them to the vet ASAP!!!! what if they have worms? I hope they live please save those pore little things!

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