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| Author | Topic: Gentle Leader advice |
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jeminn Member  Posts: 166 |
posted 09-13-2003 05:03 PM
 
I would like to hear how people like the gentle leader, or what other kind of collars work well for your dogs. What type of training collars do you use and like. I am new to the gentle leader and although my 5 month Aussie will walk nicely with me on a leash and regular flat buckle collar, I am wondering if there would be an advantage to switching to a different type of collar, or am I just asking for trouble, trying something new. I bought the Premier Gentle Leader today and tried it on Jules (my Aussie) but she went nuts trying to get it off and was successful- how tight are these supposed to be around the dogs muzzle? It seems that if it is tight enought so that it won't come off (with the dog pawing at it or wiggling), then it is too tight for the dog to have it's mouth open to "pant" and be comfortable. Is is a matter of her just getting used to the feeling of something around her nose? I understand how the concept works - but this one did not come with specific instructions- think someone had opened the box and took that part out. I can go back to the store where I got it for more specific help and assistance, but just thought I would post this question to see what people think about these collars in general, and what other types you like to use, for both walking and/or training. There are a lot to choose from out there. And again- maybe I should not switch to something else- any thoughts? My old Husky who is 16 always wore a harness because she had a partially collapsed trachea, and she was a sled dog, so we never went the collar route. Thanks- [This message has been edited by jeminn (edited 09-13-2003).] IP: Logged |
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jeminn Member Posts: 166 |
posted 09-13-2003 05:28 PM
In looking more closely at the picture on the front of the box I can see that the gentle leader is placed further back on the muzzle than I may have tried. The Golden Retriever on the package does have his mouth open so he can pant easily. Did your dogs still try to pull at it, or did they just get used to it pretty quickly? As I mentioned, my Aussie was pretty irritated with the whole thing- which I realize is probably normal behavior trying something new like this- I am just trying to decide if it is worth working at. The size I bought was for medium dogs 25-60lbs, and my aussie is about 35lbs now. [This message has been edited by jeminn (edited 09-13-2003).] IP: Logged |
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Lacey Member Posts: 64 |
posted 09-13-2003 05:48 PM
If your dog is walking nicely on a leash now I don't see any need for a gentle leader. You may want to hold onto it in case this changes since your pup is only 5 months old. They are fitted just below their eyes on their snout and must be snug very high up on the back of their necks just under their ears and in the front just under their jawbones. You should get the instructions as it explains it much better. If you don't have pulling problems while walking I wouldn't use one. They are great if you do but not necessary if you don't. Good luck! IP: Logged |
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NewLabOwnr Member Posts: 169 |
posted 09-14-2003 12:12 PM
I was wondering about these myself. Someone is training class asked if they were ok to use and the trainer said yes but you will have a hard time transitioning to training off the collar. The person just said yes I read that. Not really sure what they meant and since I wasn't thinking about it then I didn't ask. Now I'm wondering if it's something to consider after reading some comments in our big long puppy post. Please post if you find any more infromation. THANKS!! IP: Logged |
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jeminn Member Posts: 166 |
posted 09-14-2003 04:57 PM
Newlabowner-Goob posted this webpage on another thread and I found it helpful and interesting. Here it is- http://www.sitstay.com/store/equip/collars3.shtml IP: Logged |
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NewLabOwnr Member Posts: 169 |
posted 09-14-2003 07:32 PM
Thanks a bunch! IP: Logged |
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Jamiya Member Posts: 1392 |
posted 09-15-2003 06:06 AM
I am using a Gentle Leader with our puppy. Our trainer recommends it highly. She said the dogs that complain the most when you first put it on are often the dogs that need it the most! She said to just ignore them if they don't like it. If you act sorry for them or try to comfort them, you are just reinforcing that there is something wrong and they will carry on. My puppy didn't like it when we put it on at her first puppy class. She bucked around like a bronco and pawed at her nose and finally flopped over like she was dead. I ignored it and went about as normal. She made it through the class just fine and was snoozing happily by the time class ended. Now I only put it on for training sessions and puppy class and walks. She associates it with training and getting treats, so she doesn't complain much. It does fit right below their eyes, and the part that goes behind their ears needs to be SNUG. She can bark and pant and eat and do whatever else doggies do with it on. Our trainer said NOT to leave it on without having a leash attached. She thought puppy might chew on it and they are fairly expensive so you wouldn't want to have to buy a new one. I still do training exercises with her off-leash as well, though. We are supposed to ONLY do it with a leash on, according to the trainer, but the second I put the collar and leash on, she knows what is coming and she's all attention and waiting to perform for treats. I find it more beneficial to catch her offguard so she knows treats can come at any time so she'd better always obey. If your puppy is doing well with a regular collar, though, I see no reason to switch. You might hold onto it in case trouble develops later.
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jeminn Member Posts: 166 |
posted 09-15-2003 12:59 PM
Thanks- I think I will stick with what has worked for me at this point, although she is getting stronger and faster everyday, so things could change and I may try it later. Any opinions on choke chains and pinch collars out there? I am not a big fan of using them because they can be used incorrectly and can cause damage to the dogs trachea, but I do know trainers that use them and nothing else. We used them in the past at the kennel I worked at with large, strong breeds that a regular collar had no effect on, and even though we learned the correct way of working with these types of collars, I still did not like using them. Certain dogs just did not need this type of collar- so much depends on the dog, it's disposition, and what you are trying to teach. I realize collars have changed a lot over the years, as well as training methods- but I still find there are certain dogs and certain training situations that these types of collars can be beneficial given they are used correctly and carefully. Some trainers I know use these methods exclusively and the dogs must wear their pinch collar all the time. I do not necessarily agree with this method of training, but also understand there are just some dogs that can be very difficult to work with if you do not have control over them. Has anyone been working with a trainer that suggests these types of collars or uses them? Every dog is different, and responds to different types of training methods, I am just curious what people have used for collars in more advanced training methods (or if you have big strong breed that needs something a little more controlling for a collar)or what has been recommended to you by trainers, and if you have been happy with the results. IP: Logged |
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Shade Member Posts: 32 |
posted 09-20-2003 03:47 PM
I've been reading up in here and on the net about the collars. I think I'm going to give it a try for Samson, who really wants to "protect" me from other dogs, roller bladers, joggers, insects that fly by, you name it! sigh. It's really been hard to find a trainer or behaviorist in this small town, so I'm hoping that the comments on the website that say : "Under the supervision of a professional trainer, veterinarian or behavior consultant, and when used appropriately, Gentle Leader® can be very effective for aggression problems. " don't mean I can't figure it all out on my own through the heavy behavior books I've been reading and internet I've been studying. I can't bear to keep walking him at 4am just to avoid other people and dogs. Especially since it's now pitch black outside at that hour yet the bears are still awake! And we have two acres of forest on either side of us! Every russle in the bushes makes my heart race! Guess I'll try it. And try to maybe get the vet to give SOME advice. I mean, when they owned Samson he had no problems at all, so she'll probably tell me it's something I did wrong ;-) IP: Logged |
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the_maine_pitbull Member Posts: 320 |
posted 09-20-2003 11:51 PM
Shade-- sounds like you are in the same situation as me.. Bears in the pitch dark.. My major thing now is I do not know what would work best. Saig eis starting to pull very hard and within a few months all that people will see is Saige running and my flapping behind her.. lol. What works really well for a dog that pulls hard (APBT) she puts every muscle in her body into tugging me along.. What do you think would work best? Angie IP: Logged |
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Shade Member Posts: 32 |
posted 09-21-2003 01:10 AM
I'm going to get one and try it with Sammy. I'll let you know if it helps. During the day today I did some experimenting with what the whole GL concept is based on. That alpha dogs put their mouths across the bridge of the nose of the dog they want to subdue. (no! I didn't use my mouth! I used just my hand! I mean...look at the size of this animal's head!)
I am also considering getting him doggie Prozac. Seriously. Or Xanax. My husband's ex-wife has an insane pug that they finally put on meds. Now a person can actually enter their house without getting mauled or peed on by the pug. It's like he's a real normal dog now! IP: Logged |
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Jamiya Member Posts: 1392 |
posted 09-21-2003 04:17 AM
I wish I lived somewhere cool (and remote) enough to have bears outside! 
IP: Logged |
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Shade Member Posts: 32 |
posted 09-21-2003 08:21 PM
You might not like it if you had to rebuild your trash can hut every other week because there's a big black bear that apparently likes to munch on beer cans that tears the walls off the hut once a week, hehe. So, does any one know if the Halti Headcollar is the same thing as the gentle leader? It sounds from the descriptions that it is, but the ideas behind the two are different (GL uses alpha dog behavior of cupping the top of the nose, HC uses the idea that dogs don't like to look side to side when they walk.) IP: Logged |
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goob Member Posts: 552 |
posted 09-22-2003 02:24 PM
I think that head collars can be a good tool, but can also be abused/misused just like any other training tool. I also think that they can actually be more aversive for some dogs than a properly used training collar. Some dogs will get so worked up over the head collar that it actually becomes mroe of a hinderance than a help, and those are the ones I mean when I talk about it being aversive.
quote: I think these collars have their place on some dogs, in some situations, but as you emtnioned, the possiblity for misuse is high, unless you've been shown how to use them. They can also make some problems worse, so the dog handler/owner has to weight the pros/cons before using one.
quote: That's the key right there. It holds true for ANY training device.
quote: The training place we've been taking the younger APBT to prefers people to use a prong collar for training, and they also use e-collars, I think out of 10 dogs in the group class I watched a couple weeks ago, one had on a GL (the ONLY one I've seen in the few months I've been around), two or three had on only prong collars, and the rest had either e-collar+prong or just e-collar. My mom was the one who wanted to take the classes (I thought, and still do, that the methods they use are too harsh for this particular dog), and she does most of the works with the dog, so I have lots of opportunity to watch. I've seen some dogs who can handle the prong and even e-collar corrections (one that comes to mind was an AB who when corrected for trying to wander off, shook his head lightly from the shock and meandered back over to his owner's side), others either fight back or completely shut down. There are several dogs in the class who are trying to heel between their owners' legs, in an effort to get away from the shock from the e-collar, and others who I've noticed hesitating at the point in the recall where they were previously corrected for not responding fast enough (both prong and e-collar). I think there are some dogs there who aren't so much stubborn as they are confused and/or shut down from being overcorrected, but at the same time, there are also dogs that seem to be doing well. Our own dog has only been worked on a prong collar, no e-collar (if I have any say at all, she won't ever have on an e-collar), but I've seen her shut down a few times when corrected too hard for something. So... while I don't think prongs are right for this dog all the time, I do see where they can be a good tool in some cases, for some dogs, sometimes. IP: Logged |
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