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Author Topic:   shih poo
cnstars
unregistered
posted 02-01-2003 07:41 PM           Edit/Delete Message
I was looking at pups one day and fell in love with a shih poo. The pet shop was very honest and marked the dog a mixed breed and yes she was expensive. I visited dog pounds and adoption agencies but I couldn't get this little shih poo off of my mind. I have heard all of the arguments for and against poo mixes, but I must say some of the things I hear are rediculous. Such as backyard breeders doing it for money...this is simply supply and demand. I don't see any breeder of pure's or mixes doing it for free so anyone with that argument really needs to examine it for some major argumentive flaws. Everyone sells them for money and they will indeed attempt to make a profit. Poo-crosses falsifying themselves as a breed...I have yet to see that happen and I searched high and low. Will they be a breed one day? Maybe...every dog was mixed with something at one point and time before they were recognized as a pure breed. Pure and mixed breeds can have potential health problems and one isn't better than the other. There are advantages for either so it depends on what you are looking for. I don't think people are uneducated about poo mixes. I fell in love with my dog at first sight. I didn't care if she was a cross. She was worth every penny I paid and more. If you don't like the dog don't buy it but why put others down who do like them? And, if you are going to put this mixes down can we at least put some critical thinking techniques applications to the argument...Just my two cents. Thanks for listening...

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zenrau
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posted 10-27-2003 07:43 PM           Edit/Delete Message
I agree 100%!!! Very well said!!

Of course I may get trashed for this, but oh well........I am a breeder of Poo mixes!!! I breed Cock-A-Poo, Malti-Poo, Yorkie-Poo, Lhasa-Poo and Shih-Poos!

The reason I breed these is because I love them and other people love them as well! Alot of people don't really care what kind of dog it is, just as long as it's cute, healthy, smart and in my experience with Poo breeds...low to no shed. Every person that breeds and sells the puppies does it for the money to some extent, with the exception of true 'show dog' breeders. Of course this varies from the people who have enormous amounts of dogs who churn out puppies every chance they get to the person who only has 1 male and 1 female who breeds only once every great while. I have 10 dogs but they are loved and extremely well cared for and given lots of individual attention. I am a full time mom to my four-legged babies. And while I do not charge outragous prices, I still have to make enough to be able to continue taking care of my adults and litters because food and medical care becomes quite expensive! Then I still need to make some sort of profit.

Like cnstars said, every dog is a result of mixing at some point or another. For purebred dog owners and breeders to bash anyone who wants to "buy" or breed a mix, is completely nuts. Not everyone wants a Labrador....or a Yorkie....or whatever. They could care less about bloodline. In particular, Poo mixes are much sought after because of their cuteness and even more so, for their low to no shed quality inherited from the Poodle.

Of course there are as many different opinions on this matter as they are people in the world. But most people are completely knowledgeable of what a Poo mix is, of course you do have those few that don't really know. Then again, there are people out there who really know nothing of dogs in general and couldn't even tell you what a Labrador was.

The people who buy my puppies are my assurance that Poo mixes ARE wanted out there. I never sell any of my puppies to someone without giving them COMPLETE AND FACTUAL information of what I am selling. But it is always nice to find a message like from cnstars randomly over the internet. I mean, like it or not, Poo mixes are becoming increasingly popular. People LOVE these dogs and again, like cnstars mentioned, if you don't like the dog...don't buy it. There's no need to bash. But if someone feels that they absolutely must, then do put some facts into the argument. Because, as I mentioned, all purebreed dogs today were made from mixing dogs together. Then the all knowing....all powerful AKC decided to declare them breeds and that's what people go by today. I'm not against AKC but I'm saying that it's simply an organization. They aren't going to tell me which dogs are better than others just because they recognize them as breeds. They just seem to put the thought into your head that purebred=good.....mixed=bad, unless it's a 'rescue'.

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daearly
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Posts: 15
From:Trussville, Alabama, USA
Registered: Oct 2003

posted 10-31-2003 10:54 AM     Click Here to See the Profile for daearly     Edit/Delete Message
Amen to both of these comments. I have a 9 week old Shih-poo and he is wonderful in my eyes. I love him. I have had several dogs in my lifetime and this one seems to be the easiest one to handle. Please note that the other dogs I had were pure-breds. Go figure. He is the cutest one yet too. When you see his face you have to smile. As far as the breed issue goes, like the others said, all dogs are some mix of something and so are most people. Think about that one. Most of us are all mix-breeds. Hmm. Also, I'm still dealing with my puppy being aggressive and growling when we sometimes pick him up or disturb him when playing. What is the deal with the spray bottle I've heard about? Spray him with water and say "NO"? Is that what I should do? Other than that, he is a living doll. Thanks for any input.

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puttin510
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posted 10-31-2003 01:12 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for puttin510     Edit/Delete Message
With all that said cnstars, did you purchase the pup.

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Kiyotie
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From:USA
Registered: Feb 2004

posted 02-17-2004 03:28 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for Kiyotie     Edit/Delete Message
Umm do you guys even pay any attention to the fact that millions of dogs and cats and euthanized anually or suffer as strays? By breeding these dog's youre only contributing to the problem.

Reputable "show dog" breeders are another story. These people are almost always very responsible and breed only to improve the breed. Without these breeders, who would there be to keep the TRUE standard of their dogs alive? Backyard breeders and puppy mills? I sure hope not.

I'm not saying Poo's are bad by any means. In fact I love em just as much as any other dogs. What I'm saying is I'm against the breeding of all dogs if it's not to keep with the breed standard.

[This message has been edited by Kiyotie (edited 02-17-2004).]

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loonyluna
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posted 02-17-2004 05:32 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for loonyluna     Edit/Delete Message
So just what happens to the puppies that the pet store doesn't sell?

I think your view of backyard breeders is a little naive. Regular breeders make very little money. Most of what you pay for the dog covers the expense of a female dog having a litter. With backyard breeders, the breeder will often not spend any money on the dogs, which is why you hear about how atrocious the living conditions can be for the dogs and puppies.

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Maisey
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From:Portland, Oregon US
Registered: Sep 2003

posted 02-17-2004 05:58 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for Maisey     Edit/Delete Message
Exactly Loona...BYB are able to make a profit because they don't do testing and very little vet care if at all. They are breeding with the purpose of supplying dogs and making a profit, they don't show to prove their dogs. Yes most all breeders charge for puppies, but the breeders I know who are responsible and are doing it to improve the breed as a whole, spend tons of money Baer testing OFA or Pennhip testing CERF testing, and whatever else their breed requires. The amount they charge for the puppy barely if at all covers the amount of time and money they have put into a litter. They are doing it as a passion, not for profit. These same breeders will still be available years down the line to help you with the dog you got from them. They don't crank out litter after litter, in fact alot of the Catahoula breeders I know won't breed until they have deposits in advance on pups. In this way they are sure the dogs will be spoken for rather than having litter after litter and hoping they will sell. They are involved in their breed club, and they educate the public.
I only know of one pet store in my area that still sells puppies, the rest will tell you they don't and will not...they hold adoption days every weekend to find homes for pets who need it, these are the stores I support in my community. I have nothing against mixed breeds..I have two. But there is a vast difference between a BYB and a reputable one, trying to make it sound otherwise is damaging and foolish (or uneducated) Thats just my 2 cents.

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susan_cude@hotmail.com
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From:Santa Maria, Ca.
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posted 02-17-2004 06:13 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for susan_cude@hotmail.com     Edit/Delete Message
I'm not a breeder, so I wanted to get that out of the way first. But I think you can and probably do have good and bad points with backyard breeders as well as regular breeders. Why wouldn't you? Truely I would like that question answered. If someone were breeding poodle mixes and someone else were breeding purebred poodles, how would you know for sure who is taking the best care of the animals? is there some overseer that looks into what a purebred breeder is doing?

It is true that there are so many unwanted dogs and cats out there, and that argument is a good one! but I'm not going to "dog" someone because they breed a mixed dog.

Just my opinion....Susan

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Maisey
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From:Portland, Oregon US
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posted 02-17-2004 06:18 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for Maisey     Edit/Delete Message
I wanted to add...I don't care if the dog is AKC or not. Thats not the issue for me, I can't speak for everyone else, but it's not a matter of not liking the dog or what it looks like or whether it is registered. I happen to think the public is largly mistaken when they assume AKC registered dogs mean quality, it's simply not so. The issue for me is in making sure the dogs are well cared for, healthy, and I mean healthy for life..not just until the health gaurantee runs out. A large trend is going now for making "designer dogs" and little thought is given to the actually breeding of them. Take for instance Dobermans...the "new rare" white dobermnan that people are selling for obscene amounts of money. You cannot convince me that breeding for that is in the best interest of the breed and it's future, it is simply done to line somebodys pocket. The shrinking of dogs to make "pocket pups" is another example. These dogs are also sold for large sums of money, heck you can order one and pay for it with your Visa online! They are not healthy, many are dwarves with health issues beyond belief. THATS what I take exception to.

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susan_cude@hotmail.com
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From:Santa Maria, Ca.
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posted 02-17-2004 06:23 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for susan_cude@hotmail.com     Edit/Delete Message
I posted this before i saw Maisey's post. That answered my question. You know! I didn't know anything until I started reading posts on this site. I only thought I knew something about dogs! it's never too late to learn. Being educated is the best way, but at the same time realizing that not everyone knows as much as you and being sensitive to that fact does help.

just my 2cents

Susan

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Maisey
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From:Portland, Oregon US
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posted 02-17-2004 06:35 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for Maisey     Edit/Delete Message
Susan, I don't personally have an issue with someone breeding crosses. But what I would ask of that breeder is, has each the bitch and dog been tested for issues that are common to each breed or any breed in general?
Are each of those dogs excellent examples of their respective breeds? Are you active in those breed clubs? In breeding this cross what are your goals to be? What kind of a standard or continuety are you looking to produce in the pups from this breeding? Again thats just me and my two cents and it's only a little of what I would ask.

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susan_cude@hotmail.com
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From:Santa Maria, Ca.
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posted 02-17-2004 06:48 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for susan_cude@hotmail.com     Edit/Delete Message
Thank you Maisey! I'm not buying a dog, but I love to learn as much as i can. It would be great if you could post this same reply to the post about buying a Yorky.

Susan

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Maisey
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From:Portland, Oregon US
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posted 02-17-2004 07:00 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for Maisey     Edit/Delete Message
LOL I already opened my mouth more than I wanted... and you want me to get in more hot water! Gotta love ya Susan =)

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loonyluna
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posted 02-18-2004 10:35 AM     Click Here to See the Profile for loonyluna     Edit/Delete Message
When I refer to BYB, I am thinking of people who keep breeding their dogs to make money on selling their puppies. Some people, for whatever reason, don't spay their dog and she gets pregnant. The puppies usually get sold. I wouldn't consider these people 'breeders' and the puppies are probably much better cared for than those of BYBs. And if you are getting a puppy from a breeder, it's best to find a reputable breeder and ask them lots of questions. I'm sure there are bad breeders out there.
The only problem I have with mixed breeds is that unless you are knowledgable in genetics, you could wind up with a half breed with more health issues. Or the worst traits of both breeds, rather than the best. How did those labradoodle breeders know they'd end up with a lab with a poodle coat (therefore 'allergenic') and not a poodle with a lab coat?

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MistressKela
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From:My IQ is higher than yours, I guarantee it.
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posted 02-18-2004 11:32 AM     Click Here to See the Profile for MistressKela     Edit/Delete Message
"Reputable breeders" that only breed to improve the quality of the breed charge WAY too much for their puppies. They should charge exactly what it cost them to raise the puppies but they dont. Everyone that breeds dogs in part does it to make money. I do not buy it for one second that there are people out there not making a penny off the dogs. I challenge any breeder or person that knows a breeder to send me information on their most recent litter including all puppy prices and any complications and we will figure out exactly how much profit they pulled in.

More power to you. You knew what kind of dog you wanted and you got it. I wish you and your puppy the best of luck.

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raindigger
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From:Roy, Washington
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posted 02-18-2004 07:38 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for raindigger     Edit/Delete Message
Concerning what "reputable breeders" charge; Funny, last sunday I was in a pet shop and saw a pembroke puppy on sale for $599.99. The day before I'd talked to a breeder who had just evaluated a pem. corgi litter his Am. champion sired. The dam is a Can. Ch. and USA pointed. 2 of six pups are show prospects. The other four will be sold for $450.00. They must be altered. They will have health guarantees and vacs. Not all descent breeders charge reasonalby, but many are more interested in finding the right homes for their extra pups and won't sell to just anyone. The breeders that do charge extra high prices much of the time plunk that money right back into the cost of breeding and showing. Of coures, even some good breeders can be rip-offs. It happens in most business. I think the purebred breeders who don't show their dogs and sell their puppies to anyone who is willing to pay are probably in it for the money. Showing is really the most objective way of knowing what you have. Not just by winning, but by socializing with other breeders and evaluating other dogs against your own. I've seen quite a few people at the shows, including fun matches, that realized their dog was not up to par once they saw the competition. That includes me about 30 years ago with what I thought was the most beautiful pom in the world.

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Jas

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posted 02-18-2004 11:19 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for Jas     Edit/Delete Message
quote:
Everyone that breeds dogs in part does it to make money.

Oh come on now, lets not speak a half truth here.

quote:
I challenge any breeder or person that knows a breeder to send me information on their most recent litter including all puppy prices and any complications and we will figure out exactly how much profit they pulled in.

Well I can think of many breeders who have not "profited" one bit. Which do you want first the breeder I know who lost ALL but one puppy in her litter to parvo. Vet bills for the litter were in the high thousands if not $10,000. It tormented her to sell the one remaining pet puppy for $1000. So $-9000 dollars later plus the cost of vet checks & set of shots, registration, tattoos, microchips, food, supplies, phone calls, additional paperwork for the litter and TIME, that number is more like $ -12,000. Yes, was her own fault for not taking every possible precaution - parvo was said to be trekked in on a visitor's shoes, but what a sad and hard lessen.

Case 2 - a Breeder I know female had 6 pups, needs emergency c-section on the last 3. one pup doesn't make it. Cost of emergency approx $1000. Plus antibiotics. Litter costs including same as above total approx $3500.

I believe he sold show prospect pups for $1000, pets for $700. 3 show & 2 pets. One pup had a hernia which needed removing. On two pups breeder paid for the altering ($500 for those costs) one pup was found to have a congenital problem several months later. Breeder refunded purchase price
$4400-
1000-
3500-
500-
700
-----------
$-1300

Both of these cases didn't include the Stud dog fee, health testing of the breeding animals OFA Hips elbows, BAER, CERF, CARDIAC, Cost of shipping semen on one of these breedings plus the AI and costs involved with that. Also costs of show fees as neither breeder will not breed to a dog without its conformation Championship. I am guessing this cost them anywhere from $2000-4000. Doesn't take much, costs add up really fast. I would say this could happen and often does at one point to almost every breeder. Even if there are not health issues or problems expectant costs for one litter with all appropriate health testing of the parents are around $6500 and this does not include time or work missed.


It would be incredibly naive or ignorant to not understand this.

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susan_cude@hotmail.com
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From:Santa Maria, Ca.
Registered: Nov 2003

posted 02-19-2004 02:56 AM     Click Here to See the Profile for susan_cude@hotmail.com     Edit/Delete Message
You sure did do your homework Jas! Good job!

After Casey got pregnant (because of my ignorance and laziness I might add) I was as most know, a nervouse wreck! The heartache that you go through with giving up those babies was enough for me to learn a lesson the hard way! Not to mention all it put poor Casey through. Take it from me! all of you that don't have your dogs fixed, it's not worth all the stress, mess, and vet bills for one mistake. Who would have thought! (not me) that a pomeranian could sneek into my yard and get my girl....just had to share! Susan

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charmedagain
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From:uk
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posted 02-19-2004 03:21 AM     Click Here to See the Profile for charmedagain     Edit/Delete Message
Hi Everyone i just wanted to add.
The problem with people that cross breed is that the dogs they use are not hips score health checked and so on.

Cross breeding dogs is risky as most of them will have inherited genetic defects which will pass onto there offspring.

I am a breeder of german shepherds and even though i have my own dogs i still have them checked by the vet just incase lets say the females have an infection of the vulva or cystitis.

Cross breeding any animal in my eyes is wrong but this is my opinion.

If people are going to breed there should be alot of research into that type of breed its gentics hereditry problems hip back and illness history.

This is just my opinion and i will probs get negative feed back on this.

zenrau how can you breed these crosses just because you like them this is no reason to breed them.
All your doing is adding more problems to the line of that breed may it be smaller heads or shorter body and so forth, there is a number of things you have done by cross breeding.

A true breeder will have spent more money on the health of the dogs and the puppies than they can make when selling them as the money made on the puppies goes on vet bills and health care of the females and there litters even then there is no reason that you will make enough money to cover the vet bills as going through a pregnancy aswell as whelping brings with it alot of costs.

I dont breed to make money i breed to improve the line.

Dont get me wrong there is so many cute cross breeds out there my sister has a cross breed rottie and he is the cutest thing i have every seen.

But still crossbreeding is irrisponsible and uncaring to the animals.

Fair enough if a female gets out while in heat and she gets mated by the local stray without you knowing and she produces a litter thats fine as you did not put them together.

But saying that if that happend to one of my females as soon as i figured out she was pregnant i would have her to the vets and the litter removed as i dont beleive in crossing any animal.

Mike.

boro_lad1976@hotmail.com

[This message has been edited by charmedagain (edited 02-19-2004).]

[This message has been edited by charmedagain (edited 02-19-2004).]

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puggleowner
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From:Grand Rapids, MI
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posted 02-19-2004 05:56 AM     Click Here to See the Profile for puggleowner     Edit/Delete Message
So you would abort your females unborn puppies just because they weren't "purebread?" That sounds a little elitest to me....While I agree completely that backyard breeders and mass breeding just for a profit is wrong- I think it is wrong whether it is a purebread or a crossbread. Not every breeder, just because they are breeding purebreeds versus crossbreeds, is reputable or breeding to "improve the line."

My parents got their first "purebred" Golden Retriever from a breeder, but found out later that her parents were actually brother and sister, which inevitably led to problems in her and she died at an early age.

Just because a dog is purebred does not mean it is not going to have genetic problems-- actually, it is a PROVEN FACT that mixed breeds live longer than purebreeds- how does that add up to your little theory of purebreds being healthier?

While I understand it's not right to just mix breeds just for the heck of it, most of the popular mixed breeds out there have become popular for a reason, and that is because the combination has produced a good mix. My dog, for instance, whom we did not get from a breeder but from a friend who got her from one, is a mix between a pug and a beagle-- this is a good combination because she has the lap-loving qualities and unique personality of a pug, but the hardiness of a beagle, and doesn't have the breathing and eye problems often attributed to pugs. To me this is a good thing, not a mix of the "bad" traits of both the pug and the beagle.

Further, though they are registered "purebreeds," now, many of today's breeds started as crossbreeds, such as the bull-mastiff (bulldog/mastiff). These were originally developed because the mix was favorable, and I think this is the case with most of the mix-breeds today, otherwise people would not want to buy them.

I am not in anyway condoning mass-breeding or breeding for profit- however, it makes me a little upset when someone makes broad generalizations about the health of a mixed-breed dog versus a "purebred" one, and about the standard of breeders for pure versus mixed breeds. Being a reputable breeder is a personal trait- you can be an irresponsible breeder of purebreeds, or you can be a responsible breeder of mixed dogs.

Case in point- I'll go ask my neighbor down the street, who's rottweiler I swear is constantly pregnant with a litter of puppies, and who spends most of her time in the shed or in a pen in the back yard with little attention it seems from her owners until it's time to sell the puppies, if they are breeding to "improve the breed." I think not.

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Jamiya
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posted 02-19-2004 07:39 AM     Click Here to See the Profile for Jamiya     Edit/Delete Message
I have to disagree with the blanket statement that crossbreeds are less healthy than pure, based solely on a knowledge of genetics.

Now, let's assume all the parent dogs are healthy - and this includes all the certifications, etc, appropriate for whatever breed(s) you are using.

Often times, things that cause health issues are carried on a recessive gene. In order for the trait to be present in the offspring, the puppy must inherit a recessive allele from BOTH parents.

This means that if both parents carry a recessive allele for something like hip dysplasia (but neither one display the problem) then about a quarter of their offspring would be dysplastic. (Assuming hip dysplasia is controlled by one gene - which it's not, but let's just pretend for a moment).

Now, the more closely related two dogs are, the more genes they will have in common. In order for a puppy to get two recessive alleles and therefore have the corresponding health problem, the parent dogs must have MATCHING recessive alleles for that same trait. The more closely related the parents are, the more chance they have to thus having matching alleles.

This is one reason that certain problems run in certain breeds - for example, perhaps hip dysplasia is caused by a gene that is somehow linked to some desirable trait, like a certain coat color or a gentle temperament or something. Selecting for that desirable trait through multiple generations means you are also selecting for the UNdesirable dysplastic trait. So more and more dogs within that particular breed end up with this problem.

Now, for crossbreeds. If you cross a dog from a breed known for hip dysplasia (even if the dog's x-rays are fine) with a dog from a breed known for eye problems, chances are the puppies will have NEITHER problem. Why? Because these two breeds do not have matching recessives!

Most likely, the puppies will be carriers of these things, however, so crossing two of the crossbreeds might result in dogs with one or both of the problems - dyspasia and/or eye trouble. Therefore, there is an argument for obtaining crossbreeds by always mixing healthy purebreds rather than breeding crossbreed to crossbreed (which is how new breeds are made and then end up with their own neat set of genetic disorders).

I have also heard it argued that totally eliminating the genes for things like dysplasia should not be the goal. Techniques are being researched whereby the gene(s) that cause the condition can be identified, which is much more reliable than the hit-and-miss x-rays. But by crossing dogs that ONLY have the dominant genes and thereby eliminating the recessive gene from the population, you are also losing diversity from the gene pool and this is bad.

A better plan is to breed so that dogs can still CARRY the gene, but not display the problem. This requires very careful testing and research (and I don't think it is possible yet until new techniques become available to breeders).

So breeders, please educate yourselves. The best way to get a more healthy line and "improve the breed" is actually to occasionally inject more diversity into the gene pool, which requires outcrossing with a dog from a different breed. But since this is not allowed by the AKC, no one does it and once again, who is it that suffers? The dogs.


Jamiya

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puggleowner
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From:Grand Rapids, MI
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posted 02-19-2004 08:03 AM     Click Here to See the Profile for puggleowner     Edit/Delete Message
Mike, I'm sorry if that last response came off too harshly- I just feel very strongly on the topic.

Jamiya, I agree with the recessive/dominant trait issues- That is why that with all the new crossbreeds that I know of, they are unable to be produced by mixing them together. In other words, if we bred Cameron with another puggle, we would not get the same kind of dog-- in fact, on the breeder's website that Cameron came from it clearly states that as a result of mixing a cross with another cross, unintended results, such as a recessive bad gene, could occur.

From what I've learned, it takes years of developing the genetic traits of a breed to make it able to "stand alone," in that it can be bred with another of the same breed and produce the same kind of dog.

Then again, who suffers in this situation? Like Jamiya said- the dogs. Especially the ones born in the process of developing the breed, that may have the bad genes, the ones the breeders "learn" from.

I guess to conclude, one could argue that the whole process of developing and maintaining a particular breed definately has its downfalls- whether that breed is considered by today's standards as a "purebred," (though was really at some point in time just a mix as well), or today's new crossbreeds.

Maybe if we just let nature take its course and let dogs mix and match and just accept mutts instead of this obsession with "purebred" or "crossbred" dogs, things would be better for everyone! (now don't anyone fly off the handle, it was just a hypothetical suggestion )

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Jas

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posted 02-19-2004 08:41 AM     Click Here to See the Profile for Jas     Edit/Delete Message
While Mike & Puggle make some very valid points in their posts however, I see two extremes here:

quote:
Cross breeding dogs is risky as most of them will have inherited genetic defects which will pass onto there offspring.

quote:
actually, it is a PROVEN FACT that mixed breeds live longer than purebreeds- how does that add up to your little theory of purebreds being healthier?

And I respectfully have to point out that both quotes could be right but could be wrong.

Crossbreeding dogs can increase the gene pool, for those lucky enough to be free of genetic problems but it can also increase the chances of introducing new problems in the resulting problems, PLUS now a responsible breeder needs to test all the pups for any genetic conditions BOTH breeds. These resulting pups could have problems OR if they are carriers. A carrier can be very healthy but pass problems on which may not appear until several generations later. Unfortunately there is a HUGE lack of health testing on mixed breeds.

I'd love to get my hands on this "proven fact" but it simply is not always true. Besides just because a dog lives longer doesn't mean its living healthier. It could be ridden with many congenital or genetic ailments not resulting in its death. There are no statistics because many mixes are not health tested for things like HD or various other problems, and many mixed breed shelter dogs are destroyed and have never been health tested.

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puggleowner
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From:Grand Rapids, MI
Registered: Nov 2003

posted 02-19-2004 09:00 AM     Click Here to See the Profile for puggleowner     Edit/Delete Message
You are correct in that living longer doesn't always equal living healthier,and I was reaching in making that connection, but there are studies to support that mixed breeds do live longer--here is an example of one such recent study below:


MIXED-BREED DOGS LIVE LONGER, NEW STUDY SAYS
A recent study conducted by Denmark's Royal Veterinary and Agricultural University backs up commonly held beliefs about the lifespans of companion canines. "My results show that when you compare all purebred and all mixed-breeds, the mixed-breeds live longer," says scientist Helle Friis Proschowsky. Of the 3,000 dogs studied, representing 20 breeds from 15 breed groups as well as mixed breeds, researchers found the median lifespan to be 10 years; when compared with the entire group, the mixed-breed canines survived a year longer, reaching a median age of 11.
A recent study conducted by Denmark's Royal Veterinary and Agricultural University backs up commonly held beliefs about the lifespans of companion canines. "My results show that when you compare all purebred and all mixed-breeds, the mixed-breeds live longer," says scientist Helle Friis Proschowsky. Of the 3,000 dogs studied, representing 20 breeds from 15 breed groups as well as mixed breeds, researchers found the median lifespan to be 10 years; when compared with the entire group, the mixed-breed canines survived a year longer, reaching a median age of 11. The study also appeared to support the theory that smaller dogs generally live longer than larger canines. Of the animals included in the survey, Bernese mountain dogs, Scottish deerhounds and Irish wolfhounds had the shortest median lifespan--just seven years. "I do not have a specific explanation to [sic] this fact," comments Proschowsky. "But surely some of the very large and giant dogs suffer from cardiovascular and skeletal diseases that are very rare among the small breeds."

Source: AOL Dog Newsletter http://hometown.aol.com/dogcat4me/NEWSLETTER.html

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Jas

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posted 02-19-2004 09:14 AM     Click Here to See the Profile for Jas     Edit/Delete Message
quote:
A better plan is to breed so that dogs can still CARRY the gene, but not display the problem.

This might not necessarily be a better plan. This could destroy a breeders breeding program. The problem will eventually surface, maybe not for a couple generations and by then all the hard work of studying lines and matching pedigrees is ruined and all those dogs will need to be removed from future breeding programs - but will be too late as they may have already been bred or used by other breeders thus passed on.

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Jas

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posted 02-19-2004 09:32 AM     Click Here to See the Profile for Jas     Edit/Delete Message
quote:
MIXED-BREED DOGS LIVE LONGER, NEW STUDY SAYS
A recent study conducted by Denmark's Royal Veterinary and Agricultural University backs up commonly held beliefs about the lifespans of companion canines. "My results show that when you compare all purebred and all mixed-breeds, the mixed-breeds live longer," says scientist Helle Friis Proschowsky.


Dont believe everything you read! I dont have a lot of time to write as I must do some work!! but this study is inconclusive or inaccurate. It doesnt take into accont MANY varibles. For instanace I could repeat the exact same study with different dogs and have completely different or opposite results!!! This study doesnt indicate where these dogs were from? Were they well bred dogs from reputable breeders who health tested many gernerations of their lines? Were any of these purebreds from Puppy Mills or Backyard Breeders? This alone is enough to change the results. This study "proves" nothing, only that THOSE particular dogs were compared. You would have to factor in diet, location, enviroment, weight, size of dogs (small as opposed to large breed)

ALL of the above affects the results of the study immensely. Anyone can conduct a study that results in their favor.

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charmedagain
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From:uk
Registered: Aug 2003

posted 02-19-2004 10:41 AM     Click Here to See the Profile for charmedagain     Edit/Delete Message
puggleowner Yes i would abort any of my females puppies if another dog got in with them or if my females got out as my dogs are pure breed german shepherds all it takes if for a male dog that has some sort of health problem or an infection of the penis and then my females will suffer for it and also the puppies will.

I did not say that there are not some good mix breed dogs out there and as for the cross breeds live longer that is debatable one of my mums german shepherds she had lived till she was 19.

All my dogs are gene, heart,hip,eye tested along with every other test they can have and i pride myself in the knowing my dogs are in top health considering shepherds are known for hip and back problems in later life.

I have blood work done every 6months to make sure they are still healthy and there is no viruses lurking around.

What i was getting at is the fact that there is people out there that cross breed even breed pure breds just because either they like them or because they think oh i have 2 well mannered great natured dogs i think i will breed them and make money from these pups it does not work like that i can spend over £1000 every month or 2 making sure my dogs are vaccinated wormed and health checked and it can be even more.

Now can you tell me that people that just breed for the fun of it can say that they are willing to spend that much money on making sure there dogs and the puppies are in perfect health.

My Puppies leave me with there pedigree papers there papers from the vets to prove that they have passed all there tests they have there 1st vaccination some times there 2nd they are wormed.

I agree to take back any animal that becomes ill 48hours if there vet says it is ill and i give them there money back.

How many people that breed for the fun of it will do that.
I know my dogs back grounds there family history and gene history.

All i am saying that breeding of any dog may it be cross or pure bred just because they like how they look or to make money is wrong and irresponsible

My Opinion only.

Mike

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