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Author Topic:   Puppy chases cars
Sandy
unregistered
posted 08-02-2002 10:45 PM           Edit/Delete Message
can any one help I have a border collie puppy who has started to chase any car it see's. I have my dog on a lead and worry that when he gets older he will be to strong for me. What do I do?
I attend dog training but all they say is that he may grow out of it. Can any one help me?


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mindless
unregistered
posted 10-06-2003 01:31 AM           Edit/Delete Message
i have 2 border collies and they actually chase other dogs. they are now almost 2 years old and they pull like hell if i only have them on a leash connected to their collar. I have bought a 'gentle leader'. the cheaper version that works just as well is 'halti'. it is put on their snouts and tightens each time they pull. it causes discomfort but will not hurt them. it works very well and makes walkies a lot easier. i suggest this if your dog starts to pull. the only way besides the choke lead which i find cruel. good luck!

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the_maine_pitbull
Member

Posts: 320
From:Allagash, Maine USA
Registered: Oct 2003

posted 10-06-2003 07:27 AM     Click Here to See the Profile for the_maine_pitbull     Edit/Delete Message
My suggestion is Pinch collars (AKA Prong collars). Won't strain their neck muscles or cause any injuries to their necks and will get the point acrossed to the dogs in no time.
Angie

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jeminn
Member

Posts: 166
From:Colorado, USA
Registered: Jul 2003

posted 10-06-2003 07:52 AM     Click Here to See the Profile for jeminn     Edit/Delete Message
How old is your puppy? A pinch collar or choke chain can harm your pup if it is used before the age of 6 months. If your dog is old enough to use a pinch collar, they can be a great training tool. Please get some advice from a trainer or knowledgable petshop on how to correctly size it for your dog and how to use it properly. When used correctly they can solve this type of problem pretty quickly, however- I would stress again, that I would not use one on any dog under 5-6 months of age. Also, during your obedience training try to teach the "leave it" command which you can use for car chasing, cat chasing, dog chasing..it is very useful for many different situations. If you start teaching this command with something small that you can control your dog with, such as a shoe you do not want your dog to chew you can instill the basic command in a less distractful environment and use this command for other distractions and situations that are more enticing, such as car chasing ect. There are many good posts on teaching this if you look back a few pages.
I know how frustrating this problem can be, and you must get it under control for your dogs safety and your peace of mind. When you do use correction make it count, be firm about it so your dog understands this is not tolerated whatsoever. If your dog is old enough for a pinch collar, that should do the trick. You will have to take some time learning your dogs tolerance and teachable correction level with this type of collar, all dogs respond a little differently to this type of collar which is why I would recommend getting advice on how to fit the collar and use it for training, how to use it for correction of this type of behavior in particular. I use this collar on my 6 month old aussie for chasing elk, giving her a "leave it" command (which she has already learned from other situations) and then a stiff correction if she does not stop with a 10' rope attached to her. I used "leave it" early on to teach her to not chase my cats, and to keep her head out of the litter box, not to mention my cats rear-ends. I did not need to use the pinch collar during these exercises, but found that her drive to chase the elk, and bunnies that wander into our yard was a whole different story. With a herding breed like this the herding drive can kick in to high gear and you might not know what will turn them on, so they must learn to leave cars, elk, bikes, birds, neighbor kids..whatever the object is that appears to be fun to herd and chase alone when commanded to. You might want to redirect all that chasing desire into agility or flyball training if you can find a club to join, your dog would have an outlet for all that bottled up herding, chasing drive. I allow my aussie to herd my 3 children (no heel nipping allowed)..and she also loves to play soccer with them- it releases a lot of that energy and gives her an acceptable outlet for those strong drives, and it is fun for the kids, too. When my cats are outside and I want them in, I can tell her to "get the cats in" and she does it safely, without incident- but it is because I can tell her to "leave it" and I know she will stop if commanded to. The cats have come to think this is a huge game now and seem to even enjoy watching Jules going about her herding, and seem to know that she is protecting them by herding them inside at dusk. However, that is not the case with Elk (yet)..so we are working on that. I have to have the elk around in order to work on it, which during the fall I ususally don't have much problem with. I want her to be as used to them as she is the cats because I do not want her to harass them or chase them (for her own safety) just as you do not want your dog to chase cars..it is all the same principle. It takes patience and time to work with your dog, setting them up so you can teach them what you want them to learn.
As for the trainer saying youp pup will grow out of it..a lot will depend on how you train and correct your dog. The herding drive is stong in these breeds and while obedience training will help, your dog's drive to herd and chase will always be something you have to be prepared for. Don't expect a herding breed to "grow out of it". That was not good advice. Prepare yourself for it, and work with it. If it is not the car she will want to chase it will be something else, birds, bikers, cats, who knows what, who knows where, and who knows when. You have to get the dog to respond to you and that will only come with proper training. I also think it is equally important to give the dog proper outlets for these inherent drives- it is in their blood, and part of what makes each breed different and fun to own. Learn to work with it, teaching limits of what is acceptable and NOT acceptable and you hopefully you will have a lot of fun with this breed. Find some good books on herding breeds, and agility training, flyball or whatever might interest you and your dog in a fun, allowable chase environment. Your dog is smart enough to learn the difference between the two if giving the right training to do so.

[This message has been edited by jeminn (edited 10-06-2003).]

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Maisey
Member

Posts: 1387
From:Portland, Oregon US
Registered: Sep 2003

posted 10-06-2003 09:20 AM     Click Here to See the Profile for Maisey     Edit/Delete Message
How old is your pup? I hate to say this, but if thats what the trainer told you...I'd look for someone else. Someone who understands distraction training. I definately would not wait around for your BC puppy to outgrow this behavior. She is a herding dog...she will by nature continue to want to herd things and people and whatever else moves quickly. Research your breed, find activities to get her involved in that will become her "job", and get her excercise in the process. Start working now towards a very good recall commmand, practice it often and research distraction techniques.

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Jamiya
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Posts: 1392
From:
Registered: Sep 2003

posted 10-06-2003 12:51 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for Jamiya     Edit/Delete Message
Jemmin, I still cannot get my puppy to quit chasing my cats. She is about 18 weeks old and may be a border collie or aussie cross of some sort (maybe with Beagle or terrier or something).

We have been working on the Leave It command, but she ignores me where the cats are concerned. She is good with the cats if she is tired, and a few times she has actually approached them slowly and not with her teeth, but they are so jumpy around her now that they start hissing and swatting and that gets her all riled up again.

I was told by the Leerburg guy to use a prong collar with one giant correction when she starts to chase, but I am afraid to do this. Besides, she will learn that if she doesn't have the prong collar on and she isn't dragging a line that she is free to chase the cats.

The only other thing I can think of to do is to use an electric training collar so that she doesn't associate the shock with me or with what she is wearing. My sister's friend did this with an adult Golden and it only took one time and he never bothered the cats again.

I don't want to hurt my puppy (obviously) but she MUST stop chasing my cats and biting their tails!!

This puppy is not a soft puppy by any stretch of the imagination. She ignores corrections, for the most part.

Oh, and we have trouble letting her drag a line since she chews on it - we are going to try a tie-out line at some point; I just wish they were shorter.


Any suggestions?


Jamiya

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honeybear
Member

Posts: 926
From:
Registered: May 2003

posted 10-06-2003 01:02 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for honeybear     Edit/Delete Message
Jimia,. the prong collars work well for pulling Im not sure about the method you are talking about, but all it takes is one quick jerk. but I would get some advice here on the minimum age to use on a pup. if you go to the pit-bull web site, there have recent posts about the prong collar. As the the shock collar, My parents used one on their shitsu for barking, it only wore it week or two an learned not to bark, every once in awhile she starts barkng again and all they have to do is how her the collar.
Good luck
honeybear

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jeminn
Member

Posts: 166
From:Colorado, USA
Registered: Jul 2003

posted 10-06-2003 07:20 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for jeminn     Edit/Delete Message
Jamiya, I would consider using a prong collar in the near future. 5-6 months of age is the earliest. I know they look a little intimidating, but with proper sizing and instruction on how to correct the dog, you may find that this will do the trick, without much correction at all, and you may find this to be a very useful training tool to control certain behaviors. Shock collars are very effective, but they must be used very carefully - your dog can go completely nuts and totally freak out with a shock and bolt off not having a clue as to why he deserved that treatment. But, if used correctly it could completely solve the problem just as it did for your friend and her golden, given the timing of the shock is right, as well as intensity. They can be very effective. Again I would not use this without a trustworthy trainer showing you how to do so (and unless nothing else works). Prong collars can work wonders with a dog that does not pay attention to you, or for certain situations that you are not getting results with any other way. I use them for certain behaviors, such as chasing, jumping up and recall. Timing is key- you want to give the command such as "leave it" (firmly) or whatever command is appropriate for the situation, and when the dog does not listen, a stiff, firm correction is given with the collar, and then immediate release of pressure. Tell your dog to sit, (again correction after the command, if needed) then repeat the whole exercise. Have some treats handy for your dog when he sits, and end things on positive praise. I believe there is nothing wrong with the dog associating this correction coming from you. You are the alpha, and just as a mother would correct her pup with a nip, growl or picking up by the scruff of the neck to get her point across about something not being acceptable, you are also in that role. Your dog needs to listen to YOUR commands, no matter what or where or who he is interested in, and there is nothing wrong with your dog knowing you are the one giving corrections with this type of situation. I understand there are times that a correction given is effective when the dog does not know it is coming from you as well, but I would save that for more advanced training. If it is not the cats your dog wants to chase, it will be something else that clicks and turns on his herding/chasing drive, and the sooner you train your dog to leave the cats alone, the easier it will be to teach him to leave cars, bikes other dogs, etc. alone as well. I found that my cats were great distraction training tools ( I never let my aussie harm or hurt them, not once). From the minute I brought my 11 week old aussie into our house she learned manners, and my cats learned to accept her because I did not tolerate any chasing whatsoever-other than about a 3 second start after them, giving her the chance to chase them just so I could train her not to. I kept her on a 6 foot leash in the house and firmly said "leave it" whenever she started to run off towards them, then I stepped on the leash and she practically did a somersalt, but she learned. I then taught her to be "easy" when the cats were in the same room, or when I took her into the room they were in, and I was on stepping on her leash, letting her slip ever so gently towards them, continuing to say "easy" in a soft voice. I gave her treats when she was calm and in the same room with them. She learned to leave it, and be easy as she approached them wanting to sniff and smell. She knows if she is overly aggressive that I will grab her by the scruff of her neck and let her know that is not acceptable- you have to be FIRM, in control, and understand how to channel these drives into acceptable, loving, protective behavior...just as they would learn to do with a flock of sheep. There are still moments when she would like to chase my gray cat and he wants nothing to do with being close to her. He will come at her on all fours (probably because he has never been harmed) sideways and then strike out at my dog as she is backing into a corner. Then when the cat turns his back, my dog tries to bolt but I can say "leave it" and she stops dead in her tracks now, even though she would dearly love to give that cat some paybacks. Every cat is different- my other one will tolerate a complete body bath from my aussie, ears, face, bottom, feet...and she is in pure heaven, they sleep together on my son's bed back to back. Go figure that one out!
Good luck Jamiya- it takes time but I think given your efforts things will work out fine.

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the_maine_pitbull
Member

Posts: 320
From:Allagash, Maine USA
Registered: Oct 2003

posted 10-06-2003 07:47 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for the_maine_pitbull     Edit/Delete Message
Just a little somethign to tell you all.. SHOCK COLLARS ARE NOT SAFE!! THey can cause burns on the dogs and also.. put one on your forearm and shock yourself.. It is not very nice.. now imagine a little dog having this around their neck the pain it causes. It is inhumane in my opinion regardless of how affective it may be.
Angie

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jeminn
Member

Posts: 166
From:Colorado, USA
Registered: Jul 2003

posted 10-06-2003 08:14 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for jeminn     Edit/Delete Message
Many people feel the way you do Maine, and I understand why. I agree with you, it is not a fun way to train or get your point across to your beloved pet and companion. It is truly the last resort I would ever want to use and would only use it to correct a dog from doing something that is life-threatening behavior, such as car-chasing, or for a problem the owner is so frustrated with that they are at their wits end, ready to give the dog away to a shelter. And I would try every other means for correcting that first, exhausting every alternative. However, if nothing else worked, I would rather my dog have a shock and get the message instead of risk my dog getting hit by a car, or have an owner dump him at the pound because problems could not be resolved. It really is the last resort in my opinion and reserved only for certain situations that could otherwise lead to death, or abandonment if not corrected. This type of training is not for everyone, and requires educating oneself about proper handling, and usage, and I would advise anyone considering this type of collar to be under the guidance and supervision of a trusted trainer. They can do irreversable damage to your dogs spirit and health if used incorrectly, but can also teach life-saving lessons as well.

[This message has been edited by jeminn (edited 10-07-2003).]

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goob
Member

Posts: 552
From:
Registered: Mar 2003

posted 10-07-2003 01:32 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for goob     Edit/Delete Message
It's not a good idea to just be walking along, then out of nowhere, correct the dog for going after cars. If you're not careful, the dog will start to associate the car passing with the correction, and start to become defensive in those situations, leading to even more problems. Instead, if you're going to correct them, put them in a heel when you go out on your walk, and keep them in it while you're on/near the road. Then when they try to go after a car, they get corrected for breaking your command and going after a car, rather than "because" a car drove past. Make sense? You could also put them in a sit/stay or down/stay when you see a car, and correct for breaking the stay if they go after it, but for some dogs, it's easier to keep moving so they don't have time to think.

Another way that supposedly cures car chasers is to set them up with an unpleasant surprise when they go after the car... a bucket of water tossed onto them, or a person with a water gun is an easy way. Again, you do have to worry about that cauign a defensive reaction from the dog if not done absolutely correctly, and some dogs either wouldn't be able to handle it, or wouldn't be fazed at all.

Another way is to start at a distance from the road, work obedience, and keep the dog focused on you, so they don't pay attention to the car (if they're payign attention to you, they won't be chasing cars). Then as the dog gains more focus, you can move closer and closer, until you're where you need to be. You don't have to worry about the dog getting the wrong idea fro ma correction this way, but isn't the best option for people who HAVE to walk on roads.

One more option... every time you see a car, get the dog engaged in some sort of game, tug, or pull out a ball/toy, or even a handful of tasty food, and get them busy eating or playing. If YOUR game is interesting/rewarding enough, they won't bother with the car. If you do this every time you pass a car, before long, they'll snap to your attention every time they see a car, waiting for you to start the game. Then you can phase out the game, only playing it every once in a while to keep the dog sharp and let them release their frustrations.

I have used the 3rd and/or 4th on several dogs, and the first (in conjunction with the 3rd after I got a bit more control over the situation) on one dog who thought he was boss of the world and would do whatever he wanted, including chasing cars.

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