posted 09-15-2002 10:01 AM           

be prepared to spend lots of time with your puppy, lots of patience & considerable money. i payed $400 for this "mutt" as someone in a previous post called the breed, another $100 or so in crates, toys & chew things and a couple hundred for the vet to get her on a health plan. this is the first time i've ever purchased a dog, previously just bailed them out of various shelters or got pups from friends. i just turned 50 and Harley was my birthday present. I love coming home to her everyday,

Harley is 4.7 lbs and 3 months old, white w/soft peachy areas and button eyes, she looks like a little teddy bear.

posted 01-26-2003 08:26 PM         

I purchased a maltepoo from an individual. I am NOT going to call them a breeder because it is just someone who does it for a hobby. I got mine at what I consider a reasonable price and have been VERY VERY happy with her. I got laid off of my job the day before we were supposed to go and get her. I almost didn't get her, but my husband told me we should. Well, we did and she has been an emotional life saver for me during these past three months. I highly recommend this mixed breed dog to anyone. She is no shedding, and because of the poodle in her is hypoallergetic (sp).

posted 01-26-2003 08:38 PM         

Quoting KV,

<< Next time go to a shelter and help a homeless mixed breed instead of spporting moneyhungry unethical breeders >>

Hello ????. Are all mixed breeds breeders are moneyhungry unethical breeders ?.
Sure sounds this way from reading your post. Non factual Nonsense, mate. All dog breeds are a mix at one stage or another. There is no such thing as a real Pure breed.

Pardue64, we too have a malte shitzo cross dog. We bought him from a pet store. He is 3 years old now. He is the cutest little thing and we love him dearly. A small little angle. Warmly recommended as the perfect family companion.

posted 05-08-2003 12:49 AM           

Dog owners Guide http://www.canismajor.com/dog/poodogs.html http://dogladybarks.homestead.com/oodlesofdoodlesandlhasapoo.html
The backyard breeder http://www.netal.org/The%20Backyard%20Breeder.htm
How to find a reputable breeder http://trenastoys1.homestead.com/breeder.html

KV is right for the most part. If the breeder is so responsible and ethical and cared about what they've just bred, SURELY they would have provided you with information about these breeds. Unfortunately there is no way of knowing what a mixed breed will turn out like. Please make sure the breeder has health tested & *CERTIFIED* each of the parents for ALL the genetic diseases and problems both breeds are prone too!

A client of mine purchased a Cocker spaniel X poodle (trendy fad name cockapoo) and it was under a year old and had major health problems since they got it. Four major surgeries and every problem you can imagine later, plus the initial $600 dollar purchase price and several thousand in vet bills, they finally had to put her to sleep. The breeder - a BYB who had no interest to help once she got payment for the pup had no regard for health tests and offered NO guarantee. They were heartbroken and wholeheartedly regret making - her quote "An ignorant impulsive purchase without thoroughly researching what responsible breeding means."

Remember all puppies are sweet, cute and can appear healthy. Breeding them because they are cute or because everyone wants one is NOT a good reason to breed or create more mixes.

Alabama - clarify your posts!!!!! CKC - the Canadian Kennel Club would NOT recognize this mixed breed as a breed. The OTHER and very different ckc --- continental kennel club will register anything that has for legs --- this has no reflection on the quality or health of the dog. Continental club is looked down on by reputable breeders.

p.s. there is no such thing as hypoallergenic. Allergies are not breed(s) specific they are specific to each individual dog regardless of breed. ********ALL DOGS SHED AND HAVE DANDER!!!! IF THEY HAVE HAIR & SKIN THEY SHED!

posted 05-09-2003 05:16 PM           

There are three stages in the life of a hair:

Growth Stage
New hair cells form at the base or root of each hair's shaft. As new cells are formed, the older cells are pushed up and out through the follicle. When they are pushed out of the follicle, they die and become the hair that we see all over our bodies.

Resting Phase
Follicles produce new cells thus causing our hair to "grow" for a certain period of time and then they stop. It is during this resting phase that the hair shaft breaks and the hair falls out. Each individual hair follicle is on its own growth-phase pattern so normal, healthy hair does not fall out all at once.

New Phase
A period of regrowth when the follicle begins producing hair cells once again and new hair grows in.

posted 05-09-2003 05:35 PM           

I, in fact do have allergies, luckily they are mild. So please explain why I am allergic to my friends standard poodle but not my friends Chesapeake??? I can tell you its not the breed but the specific dog. I too searched the akc. Taken from the AKC, which by the way is a kennel CLUB not an allergy specialist! http://www.akc.org/love/allergies.cfm ---- the title is: "Dog Breeds That Generally Do Well With People With Allergies" [note the statement "generally" doesn't mean the same as ALWAYS]
"No breed is "hypoallergenic." Reactions of individuals to individual dogs will vary and there may also be other environmental factors that will affect the ability of an individual to tolerate the presence of a dog.
The American Kennel Club does not recommend or endorse any specific breed, nor does it claim that the listed breeds will not affect people with allergies."

posted 05-09-2003 05:39 PM         

As someone else said, it's impossible to guess what characteristics a mixed breed is going to exhibit. That's because there is no fixed temperement/appearance for these dogs, so the best gauge for the pups will be like is to look at the parents and/or any pups they have already produced. That lack of uniformity, or "type" is the reason these dogs (maltipoos, cockapoos, shihpoos, etc) are NOT "breeds". That's what differentiates "designer breed" breeders from people actually trying to create a breed... those actually trying to create a breed have a goal in mind, the "ideal dog" of x-new breed, and are striving to get closer to that with every generation. Those breeding "designer breeds" are breeding only first generation crosses (in effect, "mutts"), in an effort to cash in on a fad. The dogs they produce have few characteristics in common, and the breeders have very little method to their breedings.

Those who are upset because of people calling their dogs "mutts" should not be so easily offended, as others have already said they don't mean that term in a derrogatory way. It's just a label, no different from people classifying several breeds of dogs all under the term "bully breeds", and is nothing to get all bent out of shape about.

To qoute prices paid for dogs as a means of validating their worth and "greatness" is just silly. If you want to pay inflated prices for a label (in this case, "Malti-poo" or "Peeka-poo" instead of "mixed breed" or "mutt"), go ahead. Don't expect everyone to condone it though. It's like a fashion consultant being insulted because someone calls a $500 dollar shirt a "shirt". Paying a lot of money for something doesn't change what it is. If you're happy with your dog and don't mind paying extra for the "label", then that's fine, but don't be surprised when people criticize you for doing so.

"hybrid vigor" does not occur in the same way when crossing breeds of domestic dogs as it does when crossing more "diverse" pairs of animals. If two dogs of different breeds both carry the gene for an inherited defect, and are bred together, the resulting pups will most likely have (or carry) the defect. Since many of the breeds "designer breed" breeders are using in their crosses have similar lists of health problems, chances are good that these crossbreeds are going to have many of the same problems as their "parent" breeds. So the belief that crossing these breeds will make healthier dogs is almost entirely unfounded. In addition, the temperament of a dog will depend much more on it's individual parents and ancestors, and their temperaments, than on it's breed as a whole.

CKC (as in continental kennel club) is in no way a reputable or "trustworthy" registry. Of course they'll take your money to register your crossbreeds as a "breed". All anyone has to do is take pictures of a dog (how does the registry even now that the dog in the pictures BELONGS to the person applying for registration of their dog) and send them in to the CKC registry. Then they pay the registration fee, and the registry will register the dog as whatever the person wants. The government won't accept CKC registration as proof that a dog is of the breed stated on it's CKC papers, so why should anyone else?

On the topic of petstores... you (alabamamom1) ask "How fair is that to the already born pups who have no say?"... well, I'm curious as to how fair you think it is to the already born pups' parents, who will have to keep pumping out pups to feed the demand created by people who buy the "already borns" out of pity or on impulse? All you did was open up more space for another pup... sure, you saved that one, but more will take his place, all you did was help the process along. The things you got with your pup are nothing compared to what you would have gotten from a good breeder for about the same price. 1/2 hr talking to you is nothing... a decent breeder would have been in regular contact with you for several weeks at least, telling you about your pup, his quirks and family history, etc. If your health guarantee is only for 1 yr, you might as well not even have it, since most genetic health disorders don't start to show up until the dog is at least 18 months old (in larger breeds, it can take several years). Having more information in petstores wouldn't keep impulse buyers from getting puppies, which they would later dump off at the shelter when they became too much of a hassle.

posted 05-09-2003 06:42 PM           

Let me ask you where you think the pet store owner got the puppy(ies) from? Did you know that many puppies from pet stores come from puppy mills! See below, what you don't know might surprise you:
http://www.dog-play.com/petshop1.html
http://www.fortunecity.com/millenium/safari/84/article1.html
http://www.thevoicefordogs.org/puppmill.shtml
http://www.dachsie.org/petstore.html

Of course the owner will be terribly nice to you, she just made $500 off you!! Plus all the future sales, leashes, bedding, toys food, treats -- in a couple of years that is a LOT of money easily tripling the amount you initally spent. Would she be mean? NO way, you're her best customer! You outright state "I think it's robbery" so why would you support someone you thought was ripping you off???? Health guarantee? What does that cover? Notice it was only a year and not a lifetime guarantee. What happens when your pup is 2, 3, or 7 if for some terrible reason it gets sick? Many diseases and problems do not show up until the dogs are older than a year.

Please show the facts where mixes are healthier? Through working with rescue I have seen just as many mixes with health problems HD, eye, skin disorders, allergies. No one health tests the mixed breeds for genetic diseases but that does not mean disease does not exist, it does. How often do you hear people OFA'ing their shep/rotti cross??? Hip Dysplasia and other genetic problems are just that --- GENETIC which has no relevance on being purebred or mixed.

posted 05-11-2003 07:05 PM         

As for the rest of you,(u too Goob) you shouldn't feel so offended by how I feel. JP-Don't tell me I don't know anything about Puppy Mills just because my heart melted while entering the pet store. Anyone out there ever been in love? Some things are so powerful you cannot do anything else than what your heart is telling you to do. As far me mentioning how much I paid for my dog, get over it, I don't need to validate my dogs worth with his price tag! Kinda like putting your house on the market, YOU may think its worth $200,000.00 dollars but its only worth what someone is willing to pay for it. I was that someone that day. I really don't get into discussing my financial affairs with strangers but it came up in an earlier post and that is the only reason I mentioned it. Obviously many of you are uncomfortable with how much I paid, shouldn't really matter much to you. Goob, why would I care if you condone it or not? I don't give a rats butt about anyone condoning my purchasing behavior. And it wasn't a "she" who owns the pet store it was a "he".
Also Goob, am I suppose to be impressed with all your knowledge about pure breeds/mixed breeds/labled dogs? I am not. Just some FYI. My girlfriend at work purchased two "Purebred" Newfees (Newfoundlands) from two separate "so called" reputable breeders. She was lucky with the first, her male is gorgeous and healthy. The second however, the female, has got serious problems with her bone structure. Her rearend is severly higher in the back and she cannot jump up anywhere. She has tried to contact the breeder for info and the woman disconnected her phone and cannot be reached for any questioning. I have several friends who have purchased from reputable breeders and NEVER have I heard them say they got follow up calls from their breeders! That must only be in 'Doggiewood'. And for your information, I have been on a waiting list with a woman in NH at a "Westie" (Western Highland Terrier) rescue league to adopt a Westie and still haven't heard from her. I am not heartless. JP-some more fyi- I haven't been back to the petstore since I purchased the dog,why would I? Hmmm, lifetime guarantee? Your own mother can't even give you that! Why would I expect a Pet Store owner too? or a breeder at that??? So, it don't really matter, the whole world has their undies in a bundle about some issues. JP & Goob-you must be members of P.E.T.A.
Also, to "concerned about ignorance" I didn't purchase a poo because I had allergies,I had a toy poodle growing up, wanted something similar but a little different.

It's too bad this origianl post got so off the subject. Vivian must be wondering what the heck is going on. Its great we are able to all express our different views. Ain't America great!

Spent way too much time here tonight, gotta go watch Survivor and snuggle with my poo!!!!

posted 05-11-2003 10:14 PM         

Joee, I'm not offended in the least by how you feel, it's just your opinion, and though I may not agree with it, it's certainly not offensive. I also never said that I don't condone your choice to buy a "mutt" from a petstore, simply that others may not condone it, and that if you can't deal with it then maybe you shouldn't make such controversial purchases. You can do what you want with your money, it's not of my concern (I'm more interested in preventing the dogs from ending up at the stores in the first place). I only mentioned your dog's "value" because you're the one who brought it up, seemingly as a way of proving that he's "better" quality than those crossbreeds bought/sold at less inflated prices.

I was not mentioning the falsity of the "hybrid vigor" myths just to make myself feel good, more because it's one of the more commonly spread/believed myths, and leads to a lot of problems for both dogs and their owners. You definitely don't have to believe it or agree with it.

As for your co-worker's dogs, if the second dog has such bad movement, then how did she not notice when she was researching the dog's parents/lines? It's highly unlikely that poor structure like that would just "pop up" in one dog if the entire line is otherwise unaffected, so somewhere along the way she either got cheated, or didn't research carefully enough. Has she contacted the breed club... if they're really "reputable", then the club should be able to help her, since they would be involved with the breed's parent club and wouldn't want to lose their standing with that.

A lifetime guarantee isn't unheard of in dogs bought from reputable breeders... the bare minumum from a good breeder is two years, with many being at least 5 yrs. At one year of age, the dog is still practically a pup, so a guarantee like that would be better put to use as emergency toilet paper.

posted 05-12-2003 11:58 AM           

Your friends are obviously not buying dogs from "reputable" breeders. A good breeder does not disappear, they are there for the life of the dog they also breed for health, temperament, type, with correct conformation. Good breeders are few and far between and anyone can call themselves "reputable" doesn't mean they are. You say you havent been back to the pet store and why would you? Why wouldn't you - since you seem to believe how wonderful they are there?

"It's too bad this origianl post got so off the subject. Vivian must be wondering what the heck is going on. Its great we are able to all express our different views. Ain't America great!"

**** It is educational for all involved when a topic strays, as long as the original questions answered I see nothing wrong with it, it helps people gain knowledge and learn from others experiences good & bad. There is nothing wrong with a healthy debate. What needs to be realized is it isn't meant to be a personal attack, although with a personal subject people take offense when they don't read what they want to hear. How could our dogs not be personal, I know we all love them and are trying to do what we believe is best.

posted 05-12-2003 12:38 PM         

I truly hope you share this same passion about the abused and starving children of this country. Glad your focus remains on the source of the problem, not just irritating people like me looking to purposely make your mission difficult.

Hey JP, let me reiterate to you what I told Goob-you aren't any more holy-er-than-thou because I purchased my pet in a different manner than you. The best policy is to "agree to disagree" I would like to think I can leave it at that with you.

posted 05-14-2003 09:00 PM           

I also do a lot more than you will ever know with rescue and puppy mills that goes beyond signing papers and sending email.

Your quote, "Work to put an end to puppy mills, not people who "choose"! to purchase mixed breeds." is misleading as mixed breeds can and DO come from puppy mills too!! How do you define a puppy mill? A puppy mill can be a small scale one breed (or mixed breed) operation or a large farm with many many breeds and mixes, I've seen both. A puppy mill is most definitely not limited to pure-breds. A puppy mill as defined by *some* includes anyone breeding dogs for profit or with no regard to health, temp, and lives created. Puppy mills are not exclusive to dirty unkept living conditions either, some of the cleanest places are still puppy mills. A breeder can be a puppy mill too whether they breed mixed or purebred dogs.

How do you suggest we just "put an end to puppy mills"?? It is not that simple. It helps to use the media and write letters to petstore owners and officials, and boycott stores that sell puppies but that is not enough. Ending puppy mills *starts* with educating potential buyers. Its all about supply and demand. As long as there is a demand and market for puppies there will be a supply. So when as you say people "choose" to buy mixed breed pups they also choose which breeder or pet store to support --- they also may be completely unaware of where the dogs are from, their state of health, and what to look for in a good breeder or supplier. All I ask is for people to inform themselves and look into where their dog is coming from.

By providing people with info to recognize unethical breeders is a start -- even reaching one person can do more that people realize.

posted 01-04-2004 02:12 PM         

I don't know how the DNA would prove much, to my understanding, it only shows that a pup came from a sire and dam??? I could be wrong.

Anyhow, since the puppy had "less tan" on his forelegs, that it was suspected of "a cross". Total BS, the dog was clearly a pure ACD.

I use WKC as well and its to my understanding that they are up there with AKC.