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Posted by Topic subject:   Topic starter - war on Iraq
Auspetian

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Posts: 198
From:Sydney
Registered: Jul 2002

posted 01-07-2003 01:49 AM     Click Here to See the Profile for Auspetian   Click Here to Email Auspetian     Edit/Delete Message
Looming war on Iraq.

What do we all think about it ?

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PITBULL_PRINCESS1979
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Posts: 414
From:LOUISIANA,USA
Registered: Dec 2002

posted 01-07-2003 12:56 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for PITBULL_PRINCESS1979     Edit/Delete Message
i hope we kill them all!

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sassy_pants
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Posts: 13
From:wilmington il united states
Registered: Dec 2002

posted 01-07-2003 03:12 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for sassy_pants   Click Here to Email sassy_pants     Edit/Delete Message
IM WITH PRINCESS! I TOTALLY AGREE!!!!MAKE THEM RUN FROM OUR COLORS!

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Albert
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Posts: 143
From:Sydney
Registered: Oct 2002

posted 01-07-2003 09:00 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for Albert     Edit/Delete Message
That’s great....I like the general topic idea.

As for the war on Iraq. War has always been an horrible thing and my heart
goes for all the innocent civilians that are going to get hurt or killed.

However, it is a real pity that there are still so many countries in this region
that let a dictator like Saddam lead them and follow his will no matter how crazy
this leader is.

I fully support the US in its war on Iraq. Saddam is a real s***t stirrer and he must be removed. The jerk is busy with nothing but spreading death and financing terror across the world while his own people are dieing of starvation. I have no doubt that he had a lot to do with the 9/11 events....the US just wont admit it. He has a lot to do with all the terror attacks in Israel by directly financing suicide bombers families. Hunch promoting an incentive for kids to go out and blow up other kids. While promoting
his own agenda and interests.

This Jerk must be removed from power. Maybe then the world will be able to better solve its differences over the negotiations table and not via cowards wearing TNT belts and blowing up innocent civilians in office buildings or eating pizza in a restaurant.

A lot has been said about the US that the real reason for the war is oil and money etc.
While I admit that some of the reasons might involve Saddam’s control of huge oil fields. I highly consider the US as the watchdog of the free world and greatly appreciate the US deeds in many conflicts. The US is responsible for freeing many countries from very dark regimes and the ones that claim otherwise will have a hard time to argue with the facts.

GO THE US, GO UK, GO AUSTRALIA, GO ISRAEL...good luck and god bless. Rid the world of this jerk and his dark regime. Free the people of Iraq...they deserve better !! The world deserve better !!

Just my opinion.

[This message has been edited by Albert (edited 01-08-2003).]

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Russ
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Posts: 147
From:Vancouver, B.C. Canada
Registered: Dec 2002

posted 01-07-2003 11:42 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for Russ     Edit/Delete Message
Hi all,

Im Canadian,
I am not wanting to get into this topic too deep, but I watch news from 2 other countries that are not the USA. What is said is 100% completly different than what the USA media says. (Im not going to dig for quotes)
It seems the non USA news is straight up non bias, and the USA news is biased and media censored to pump up the patriotic blood etc.

I don't like Bush, I liked Clinton.

It's just my 2 cents

Russ

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PITBULL_PRINCESS1979
Member

Posts: 414
From:LOUISIANA,USA
Registered: Dec 2002

posted 01-08-2003 10:28 AM     Click Here to See the Profile for PITBULL_PRINCESS1979     Edit/Delete Message
I DON'T WATCH ALOT OF THE NEWS BECAUSE ALOT OF THE TIME YOU DO NOT KNOW WHO IS TELLING THE TRUTH.THE ONE THING I KNOW IS TRUE IS I SAW 2 PLAIN FLY INTO THE TWIN TOWERS AND KILL ALOT OF PEOPLE.
I DO NOT LIKE WAR.IT ONLY BRINGS MORE DEATH,BUT I DO BELIEVE THAT WHO EVER IS BEHIND ALL THE ATTACKS NEEDS TO PAY FOR WHAT THEY HAVE DONE.
WE WILL NEVER KNOW WHO IT REALLY WAS THAT PLANED THE ATTACKS,SO,THATS WHY I SAY KILL THEM ALL!

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Russ
Member

Posts: 147
From:Vancouver, B.C. Canada
Registered: Dec 2002

posted 01-08-2003 07:44 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for Russ     Edit/Delete Message
Hi Princess,

I agree, I saw the planes crash into the tower and my back sweated and felt a chill through my body.

But this is the Billion dollar question, who did it.

Who are we to judge, jury and execute without evidence other than some monkeys political opinion.

Who to kill? them? himself? who is the scapegoat? and who really did it?

"Umm we think we killed him but we can't find his body." "We have reason to believe it was so and so and blah blah blah, but need to aquire more solid evidence before we start WW3 and kill everyone on the planet" LOL
He is a puppet with big ears.

I hope USA doesn't decide to point any fingers up here at Canada for who knows what. Otherwise we will become the 53rd state, whether we like it or not. (sarcasm)

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Russ
Member

Posts: 147
From:Vancouver, B.C. Canada
Registered: Dec 2002

posted 01-08-2003 07:50 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for Russ     Edit/Delete Message
Why not just assasinate him? Avoid all the death to the innocent victims.

With all the technology and global intel, couldn't they find a more peaceful way to stop a madman?

They said that during the gulf war, they knew where he was every minute of the day.

Seriously folks, it could all be over in a minute with 1 bomb on Saddams head, but what would that do for the US economy? No war? No economic growth and stimulation.

War = Big bucks to Bush and all the guys in his pocket.

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Albert
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Posts: 143
From:Sydney
Registered: Oct 2002

posted 01-08-2003 08:42 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for Albert     Edit/Delete Message
Russ, exactly what I was thinking. Just assassinate him, end of story.

But then I was thinking about some possible reasons of why it is not being done or has been done....
1) He is the head of state of his country. I guess countries don’t just go and
assassinate the head of state of another country. It is a very dangerous none democratic game. Imagine if countries start to kill each others heads of state.
Not that I’m saying that it is not being done. I’m saying, democratic countries will
not do such thing in broad day light. Not the US anyway...

2) What happens after they get him assassinated. Who will be taking over ?. Anyone can jump into his chair and take over and he might be
worse then the latter. Therefore, you first want to secure the country
and to ensure that no other jerk is taking advantage of the political vacuum
and start shooting all kind of nasties on neighbouring countries. In other words
you want to disable the chain of command, capture and then disarm the army.
Iraq controls close to 50% of the world’s oil reserves. You also want to secure
and ensure that a friendly democratic government is taking over under international supervision and order. Just like in Afghanistan.

3) He is hiding underground and have many look-alikes. By the time they get to him he can inflict some massive damage using unconventional weapons.

Bottom line...I see no other real alternative than to first disable the chain of command
and then disarm the army (not much he can do once he have no army). This unfortunately will require a full scale war.

[This message has been edited by Albert (edited 01-09-2003).]

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Albert
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Posts: 143
From:Sydney
Registered: Oct 2002

posted 01-08-2003 09:07 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for Albert     Edit/Delete Message
P.S.

Re: the twin towers. What do you guys mean?
We don't know who planned and carried the attackes ???????????

[This message has been edited by Albert (edited 01-08-2003).]

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Albert
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Posts: 143
From:Sydney
Registered: Oct 2002

posted 01-08-2003 11:02 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for Albert     Edit/Delete Message
LOL, found it somwhere...

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Pauline
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Posts: 119
From: NC -USA
Registered: Jan 2003

posted 01-09-2003 12:00 AM     Click Here to See the Profile for Pauline     Edit/Delete Message
WE never got Hussein, Kuwait turned out a mess, Beirut was a mess, loss my hubby to it, and I sure hate to see more men killed in what seems to be endless wars with the main target never captured. And, if they were captured, there would always be someone else to come right back behind. The economy is so bad right now, can we really afford it. I too don't think we ever get the whole truth of anything that occurs military wise. Know first-hand actually, was a Marine wife.

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PITBULL_PRINCESS1979
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Posts: 414
From:LOUISIANA,USA
Registered: Dec 2002

posted 01-09-2003 12:17 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for PITBULL_PRINCESS1979     Edit/Delete Message
PAULINE,
I AM SO SORRY FOR YOUR LOSS,BUT I AM ALSO VERY THANKFUL FOR MEN LIKE YOUR HUSBAND.WITHOUT THEM WE WOULD NOT HAVE OUR FREEDOM.I JUST WANTED TO SAY THANK YOU,AND I AM SORRY FOR YOU LOSS...

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Pauline
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Posts: 119
From: NC -USA
Registered: Jan 2003

posted 01-11-2003 04:31 AM     Click Here to See the Profile for Pauline     Edit/Delete Message
Thanks Pittbull_Princess....just makes you really look at everything, analyze and prioritize everything. He wasn't even supposed to be there either. Know how I got his awards/medals....in a brown sack!! Talk about dignity...anyways, changing the subject, I am seeing all this, and we just have to grin and bear it as we have to trust to a certain degree the higher ups. And it really is so easy to get along, makes no sense to me. God bless.

And Albert, gosh, that looks real painful-like!! LOL!! Thanks for your humor, I love it!

[This message has been edited by Pauline (edited 01-11-2003).]

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Albert
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Posts: 143
From:Sydney
Registered: Oct 2002

posted 01-11-2003 07:00 AM     Click Here to See the Profile for Albert     Edit/Delete Message
Hi Pauline,

First and foremost allow me to tell you how sorry I am to hear about your loss.
It is a reminder to us all to always put things in perspective and to appreciate the
most important things in our life – our loved ones. A reminder to us all of just how
awful war is and that no side really ever win. Loosing a dear one is the ultimate
price one can pay.

I served in the army for 3 years (1984-87) as a field medic and saw the pain of war from very close. I lost a good friend. War is a BAD awful thing !.

I find it amazing that we humans still have to go via this process in order to resolve our differences. It seams like the more the world is advancing in technology, science etc. the higher the death toll, the greater the danger, the pain and the cheaper human life is becoming. Terror is spreading world wide and its agenda - killing as many innocent civilians as possible per attack.

Seams like the more the world is advancing the more it looks like an episode from an horror movie. Where doe’s it all end?.

I think that the war on Iraq is part of the answer to my question above. I think that
the war on Iraq is about – Where should we start clearing up the mess and stopping the madness?


RE: Camel nuts.
OOOOUCH...poor camel...extremely painful indeed

Glad the pictures made you smile

Cheers & all the best
Albert

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animal_crazy
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Posts: 29
From:edgerton , ohio , USA
Registered: Feb 2003

posted 02-16-2003 12:13 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for animal_crazy   Click Here to Email animal_crazy     Edit/Delete Message
i believe we shouldnt go to war its an ungodly dissision and someone should just kick saddoms butt

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shannon
unregistered
posted 03-20-2003 01:45 PM           Edit/Delete Message
In the 2 towers incident, a few thousand people died, because of this war how many people will die? not only people from Iraq, but americans will die too. The americans are not as innocent as they seem, they have roots in history that are very bad, for going into countrys and pushing their own agenda. Try looking at things in a different way, the amount of people that die from "terrorism" in the US is not even equal to the terrorism the americans are responsible for in the other countries.

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Russ
Member

Posts: 147
From:Vancouver, B.C. Canada
Registered: Dec 2002

posted 03-22-2003 07:44 AM     Click Here to See the Profile for Russ     Edit/Delete Message
Yep, there is still no evidence of who did the twin towers, maybe it was an inside job??

To create a reason to go to war again. Where is Bin laden now?

Long forgotten. The real agenda is underway now. Get the oil.

Such a hypocrite he is, so what if China says " We don't like USA having so many weapons of mass destruction " they come and invade USA. Are they war criminals now?

Why doesn't USA impose their threats on N Korea?

Is there oil there?

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Pauline
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Posts: 119
From: NC -USA
Registered: Jan 2003

posted 03-22-2003 07:54 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for Pauline     Edit/Delete Message
From what the goverment says, they have linked the 9/11 incident to Al Quaeda, linked to Saddam Hussein. I think Bush wants to be one up better than daddy-o, and get that oil. Even though we're told we have enough, but prices going up, when in fact, the prices have gone down due to the war....something I think is price-fixing if nothing less.

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Russ
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Posts: 147
From:Vancouver, B.C. Canada
Registered: Dec 2002

posted 03-23-2003 08:15 AM     Click Here to See the Profile for Russ     Edit/Delete Message
Does anyone know how much of your taxes the US government spends on US made weapons of mass destruction?

I think it has about 10,000 times more weapons of MASS **Nuclear** destruction than Iraq has, most of Iraqs weapons being 20-30 years old.

Bush is a brainwasher and a propangandist in the largest scale. He is a hypocrite and I hope someone assasinates him soon, before this whole planet pays the price for his familys lust for wealth and power.

So far the US is responsible for the most fatalities to themselves.

I just can't believe that the 2nd most powerful country in the world has a monkey at the steering wheel.

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Albert
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Posts: 143
From:Sydney
Registered: Oct 2002

posted 03-23-2003 08:55 AM     Click Here to See the Profile for Albert     Edit/Delete Message
Nonsense,

Bush is a very brave leader . A real man with a huge set of B***s.

He reads very well the situation in the Middle East and took the right actions
to bring stability and some peace and quite to this region. Ask the countries
neighbouring Iraq and they will tell you all about Sadam.

Iraq had 12 years to give up their crazy ideas and join the international
community. They’ve had one more last chance and said No to that one as well.

Ask the people of Iraq after this war is over. They’ll be blessing the coalition forces
for freeing them from this Tyron. Exactly like in Afghanistan.

Time will tell....wait and you’ll see for yourself.

Shouting Peace Peace does not necessarily bring Peace. There are times when action must be taken in order to Ensure Peace ! and this one of of them.

North Korea is next !!!

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Russ
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Posts: 147
From:Vancouver, B.C. Canada
Registered: Dec 2002

posted 03-23-2003 06:05 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for Russ     Edit/Delete Message
Hi Albert,

Long time no see.

I don't think peace is the answer.
But who nominated USA to be the Dictator of 51% of the planet earth?

North Korea will never happen because of politics, also, Bush isn't so stupid as to awaken the sleeping giant. It would be a far worse political booboo than what he is involved in now.

Bush is driven by greed, not by compassion to save people, thats just one of his 100's of excuses to move in to Iraq.

UK is in there like flies on s#it for a piece of the pie and alot of brown nosing.

I don't know what news you are watching, but I am sure it is so censored and rehearsed. Just as is our up here in Canada.
The Chinese news however is quite different than the CNN or the NBC or the CBC
They have unbiased journalists reporting the truth, not the propaganda. So whatever the UK and US reporters are saying is alot dirrerent than what I am aware of.

Take for instance SARS in South east China.
How many doctors have been infected and died?
Hmmmmmmm not mentioned in any news I can find or watch out here. But my wifes parents are there and have told us that many doctors have died. They only know this because her mother is a movie producer in China and inside the circle that is in the know. It is media censored to the chinese as well.
They still have no reason to lie about the war though.

Im not there, I am glad I am not there, I wish it would be over before we all live on a radioactive desert of ruins and decay.

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PITBULL_PRINCESS1979
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Posts: 414
From:LOUISIANA,USA
Registered: Dec 2002

posted 03-24-2003 12:19 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for PITBULL_PRINCESS1979     Edit/Delete Message
I am sorry,but I do not feel sorry for any of those S.O.B. I say kill them all.I am an American and very proud of it.This world is dog eat dog..Only the stronge servive..That is life.Our boys over there knew what could happen when they joined the armed forces.It was their choice,and they are willing to die are everyone back home.My heart goes out to them and their family,losing a loved one is never easy.Lord knows I have had my share of lose,but that is life.There is always going to be war and lose.As long as the cause is worth fighting for,than I see no problem.Those S.O.B.'s were not thinking about all of our kids that lost their parents in 9/11 so why should I care.One more die is one less we will have in the U.S.I am tired of my money taking care of them.If they would keep the a**'s in their own country then i would not have a problem...

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Russ
Member

Posts: 147
From:Vancouver, B.C. Canada
Registered: Dec 2002

posted 03-24-2003 01:39 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for Russ     Edit/Delete Message
Hi Princess,

Where is the evidence as to who was responsible for 911?

"We have reasons to believe it was so and so"

So now we will go kill them all. Not a good attitude at all I am afraid. IMO

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PITBULL_PRINCESS1979
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Posts: 414
From:LOUISIANA,USA
Registered: Dec 2002

posted 03-24-2003 03:04 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for PITBULL_PRINCESS1979     Edit/Delete Message
well,Osama has taken the credit for doing this,and even if he did not...He should have his a** killed for for taken the cradit.I do not expect everyone to agree with what our government does...heck most of the time I don't...but I feel that if you are not with us then you are aginst us,so,instead of waiting for more to attack ...kill them all.Those people brought it on them selves..So,I do not feel sorry for any of them.I never will.Death is part of life..

What really makes me sick is these stupid cowards,in my own country,crying because we are going to war.It makes me sick to think that some American think that we should find the peaceful way to handle this.Well they were not looking for a peaceful way to speak their minds.They hijacked our own plains and flew them into our towers,and killed our people.

We should have blown them all up in Desert Storm.That way would would not have to kick their a** again.

All war sucks,but is very important.There is no peaceful way to handle this.An eye for an eye.They were not worried about all the innocent lives they took from our people.So,why should I care about them.I am sorry if you don't speak english and were not born in this country,you need to go back to your own.9/11 has filled my heart with alot of hate.

I had to fly to my sisters this weekend,and the first thing I did before I sat down was make sure that there was no one from the Middle East on the plain.I do not trust any of them.Not saying they are all bad,but I do not trust them.

I am sure this post will make alot of people mad,but I am a true American and this is how alot of people from my town feel.

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Russ
Member

Posts: 147
From:Vancouver, B.C. Canada
Registered: Dec 2002

posted 03-24-2003 04:52 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for Russ     Edit/Delete Message
I hope lumber doesn't become as valuable as oil. I hope USA doesn't start pointing fingers at Canada for letting all the terrorists into our country so they can cross into USA easier.

USA is a big bully but a bully that kills instead of push around.

Just because some people despise war, does not make them a coward. It means that they have different morals and principals than others that tend to use violence to solve everything. I suppose in uncivilized times, might is right. Even if you are wrong.

I suppose when USA takes over the precious oil wells, they may give back $2 from each barrel as a token of their sympathy for the people of IRAQ, after they raped them of the resource.

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PITBULL_PRINCESS1979
Member

Posts: 414
From:LOUISIANA,USA
Registered: Dec 2002

posted 03-24-2003 06:51 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for PITBULL_PRINCESS1979     Edit/Delete Message
You and alot of people may think I am wrong for feeling the way I do and that's ok..We all have our opinions.Thats one of the things that makes us different.Like I said,I do not support everything my government does.How ever,I do feel that war is the only option.The time for talk and beating around the bush has ended.It is time for action.Some one must pay for what was done to our country and if their government wants them to pay with their peoples lives,thats their choice.We were not given one when they crashed those plains into the World Trade Center.Do you think those people were given the choice to live or die.They broke the rules,so, its time to pay the piper.
I am sorry,but I feel if you country was fallen under attack you would be just as pissed off as alot of Americans are.Iraq's leader was given a choice.He could either face exile or go to war.He made his choice for his people.If am one is to blame it is Saddam and Osama.They f***ed up.

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Russ
Member

Posts: 147
From:Vancouver, B.C. Canada
Registered: Dec 2002

posted 03-24-2003 07:41 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for Russ     Edit/Delete Message
Did you know that the American went into Iraq many many times, but it was with oil surveying equipment.

They let the American in for their weapon searches also.

Either way even with Saddam complying, war was inevitable. Bush wants the oil, revenge is the cloak for his real agenda.

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PITBULL_PRINCESS1979
Member

Posts: 414
From:LOUISIANA,USA
Registered: Dec 2002

posted 03-25-2003 09:23 AM     Click Here to See the Profile for PITBULL_PRINCESS1979     Edit/Delete Message
Russ,
I am sure bush has his own reasons for the war...Ever one who supports this war has different reasons why they want our men and women to kick their butts.It makes me noe difference what his reasons are as long as they pay for what they did to us.

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Russ
Member

Posts: 147
From:Vancouver, B.C. Canada
Registered: Dec 2002

posted 03-25-2003 08:56 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for Russ     Edit/Delete Message
Well, thats my point, what did they do?

Bush has to make up all these reasons to get the support of the people.

What specific evidence is there that gives PROOF of who was responsible for 911

Because Bush and his posse claim so?
Honestly, I don't know what evidence there is. I haven't heard of any solid evidence so I would assume it's all heresay.

He is judge and jury and they are guilty and convicted without any evidence besides,"they have weapons of mass destruction" LOL, USA has 100,000 more than anyone else on the planet, and they are using them too. For wrongful reasons.

*Analogy* Why would I jump over a fence into a yard with 2 pitbulls I don't know and kick them both in the head? Am I stupid? to bring massive injury to myself or possibly death haha. Why would Saddam blow up the twin towers? What are the reasons Bush is brainwashing into your peoples heads? Please try to find me the real answer besides "because he had his reasons"

Geez, I haven't even heard of any updates on the findings of the remains of the survivors of 911, why are we kept in the dark on this topic?

Honestly, hypothetically Bush could have crashed the planes into the towers himself to give USA a great reason to go to war.

Don't dismiss it as an impossible theory, because it is possible.

What a nice ultimadum, be exiled or be attacked. Love to see Bush in his shoes.

I believe it was Bush's whole agenda as soon as he was elected. To continue in his fathers failed footsteps. To rape the largest oil reserve on the planet from the hands of the legit owners by trickery, politics or force. All for personal gain.

So.....
thats where I stand on this issue, unless anyone cares to take the time to try to convince me otherwise, I will only listen to evidence, not propaganda.

I welcome it so bring it on, I would rather be wrong than right. At least if I am wrong it would make me feel better for Bush starting a war for a good reason besides starting it for greed.

Regards,

Russ

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PITBULL_PRINCESS1979
Member

Posts: 414
From:LOUISIANA,USA
Registered: Dec 2002

posted 03-26-2003 10:28 AM     Click Here to See the Profile for PITBULL_PRINCESS1979     Edit/Delete Message
Russ,
I am not here to try to change you mind.I am just speaking my opinion.You have the right to believe what ever you want,just as I do.I believe in going to war.I do feel that the reasons have gotten off track,but as long as they pay for what they did I don't care.I don't believe Saddom was the master mind,but he is conected to Osama and that is enough for me.I hope they all burn for what they did.I feel no guilt or saddness for them.He was given his choice and he picked the wrong one.So now he has to pay for it.If we would have killed him the first time we would not be going through this.A mistake on the US's part.We should have done it right the first time.
I feel that if a country is not with us then they are aginst us,so,therefor they can not be trusted.Blow them up too.

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Russ
Member

Posts: 147
From:Vancouver, B.C. Canada
Registered: Dec 2002

posted 03-26-2003 03:07 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for Russ     Edit/Delete Message
I respect your opinion Princess,

I am trying to find some truthful answers, I did find them from a friend in another forum. But I won't get into it here, unless you want to hear it.

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PITBULL_PRINCESS1979
Member

Posts: 414
From:LOUISIANA,USA
Registered: Dec 2002

posted 03-26-2003 04:33 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for PITBULL_PRINCESS1979     Edit/Delete Message
Russ,
It's up to you if you want to talk about it.I have respect for what you are saying.I like to hear other people input on things.I try very hard not to be a closed minded person.It might not always seem that way...lol..but I try..Feel free to talk about anything.

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Russ
Member

Posts: 147
From:Vancouver, B.C. Canada
Registered: Dec 2002

posted 03-27-2003 04:57 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for Russ     Edit/Delete Message
This is a quote from Robin, a member of our NG. It is whole and uneditted

"> I am trying to find out some information about this war.
>
> 1) Is there evidence as to whom was responsible for the 911 attack?
> 2) What is Bush's #1 reason for going to war with Iraq?
> 3) Are the people of Iraq truely in need of humanitarian help? If so, were
> they before USA attacked?
> 4) What was Bush seniors reason for the Gulf war?


I don't think any of us here have any way of knowing the "truth" of it all.
I certainly have some opinions that I'm sure will not be received well.

First of all let me say that Saddam is definitely a very evil man. He took
over his country in a violent overthrow, and has killed anyone who has
opposed him since. He is a billionaire living off the natural resources of
his country, while his people starve. He is almost certainly in violation
of U.N. resolution 1441 that restricts Iraq from having or manufacturing
chemical and biological weapons. His countrymen need help getting rid of
him. These are points that almost anyone will agree with.

However, it is a violation of international law to invade a country without
prior approval from the U.N. Security Council UNLESS it is in self defense.
International law defines self defense as a response to agression, not a
pre-emptive strike to prevent agression. This is the first time in my
nation's history that it has ever broken that law. There was a resolution
on the table at the U.N. to send peacekeeping forces into Iraq. France and
Russia were two of the major hold outs to this resolution passing. If given
enough time however, this resolution would have surely passed at some point.

Here's where my personal opinions come into play. France was a holdout on
the resolution because they currently have very significant holdings in the
Iraqi oil industry. Russia because Iraq is a big customer for their surplus
military supplies.

The cost of rebuilding Iraq after the war will be high, and it has been
clearly stated that Iraq's oil resources will be taken over to pay for the
rebuilding. Had the U.N. resolution passed, then the all of the member
nations of the U.N. that were part of the peacekeeping forces sent to Iraq,
would be responsible for the rebuilding of Iraq, therefore they would have
all shared Iraqi oil resources. As it stands now, the United States and
Brittain will be responsible for the rebuilding of Iraq, therefore they are
the only two nations that will have rights to Iraq's oil resources. I am of
the opinion that this has ALOT to do with not giving the reolution to send
in peacekeeping forces more time to pass in the U.N.

The Bush's are an old oil family. President Bush has filled his cabinet
with people from the oil industry, and other big business. Most of his
political advisors are captains of industry. Both he and his father are
members of the secret Skull and Crossbones Society at Yale. (this is the
group that the movie The Skulls was based upon)

Even though I recognize that the U.S. is in violation of international law,
I support our troops. I wish that each and every one of them could return
home safe and sound. None of the 19 hijackers responsible for 911 were
Iraqi. 15 of them were from Saudi Arabia (supposed allies) Saddam does
however support terrorism. He gives the families of Iraqi suicide bombers
$25,000, which I am sure is a huge fortune to many of them.

Robin"

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PITBULL_PRINCESS1979
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From:LOUISIANA,USA
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posted 03-28-2003 11:01 AM     Click Here to See the Profile for PITBULL_PRINCESS1979     Edit/Delete Message
I agree with alot of things she said.They have alot of truth to them.I do not disagree with her about Bush.For what ever reason he wanted to go to war..I don't care.He is taking out a man that supports terrorist.We do not know exactly who did it on 9/11 but I am sure Saddam had something to do with it.
War is bad no matter what,but I do support it.There will be many innocent lives lost,but that is just a sacrifice that will be made .. so more people can live.
This is just how the world we live in works,it sucks,but that is just the way it is.

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shmoopie
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Registered: Jan 2003

posted 03-28-2003 02:43 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for shmoopie   Click Here to Email shmoopie     Edit/Delete Message
I was wondering where everyone was

This is a very heavy subject that seems well debated. Russ and Pit Princess...you two are getting across very strongly and you both make valid points...good job!

I wanted to point out that I am not sure where my heart falls...I believe Saddam needs to be removed from his position; however, I do not believe Bush's intentions are all that sincere. I would like to see these people saved from their disctator..he's a real jerk. I have many Iranian and Iraqi friends and they are wonderful people who escaped from their country to get away from Saddam. I do not wish for them all to die and think it is very racist a statement to be said...they are not all evil, they are brainwashed and most want the help from the US. It makes me happy to see the Iraqis awaiting the arrival of the Americans and turning on their own dictator.

Why are people stating that they should all die? They are not all evil people...I really don't like to hear that closed minded bull s**t

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PITBULL_PRINCESS1979
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From:LOUISIANA,USA
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posted 03-28-2003 06:40 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for PITBULL_PRINCESS1979     Edit/Delete Message
Shmoopie,
I have to disagree..Maybe I should not say they should all die,but they need to go back to their own country..After 9/11 alot of Americans do not feel safe with them here.I am one of them.I feel this way about anyones family that was not born and raised here.I don't trust any of them anymore.you can call me a racest if you life,but that is how I feel.

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Russ
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From:Vancouver, B.C. Canada
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posted 03-30-2003 06:09 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for Russ     Edit/Delete Message
[quote]
Shmoopie,
I have to disagree..Maybe I should not say they should all die,but they need to go back to their own country..After 9/11 alot of Americans do not feel safe with them here.I am one of them.I feel this way about anyones family that was not born and raised here.I don't trust any of them anymore.you can call me a racest if you life,but that is how I feel.[quote]

Who's country is it? The land of the free as long as you are born here? All Present Americans come from some foreign land and all of them immigrated to America due to conflicts in their homeland, religion, or whatever reason they have. Don't forget, America was created by immigrants.
I think the brainwashed "freedom" is a big reason why so many other countries find USA appealing, but its changing now. Your president is tarnishing your American dream image. He doesn't care either. He want money, thats the 1 and only thing he is after, he doesnt want your support, he has it already by kissing ass to get elected, the presidency is just a tool of his to get the oil. UK is his joe boy.
You will see. Bush cares less about his station ,you as an american and any 3rd world country.

I do agree that Saddam should be removed from power, but then what? Steal away the country's single resource that it has relied on for it's economy? HAHA, when Saddam is gone, the oil will be too, well I mean it will not belong to Irag anymore, Iraq will be a USA controlled country just like Hong Kong was to UK. That is wrong in this day and age.

Why not just kill Saddam and leave the rest to Iraq to deal with?

Won't happen.

Killing them all is a very closed minded statement and it doesn't suit you well. It doesnt suit anyone. They all don't deserve to die for 1 mans actions

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PITBULL_PRINCESS1979
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From:LOUISIANA,USA
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posted 03-31-2003 12:08 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for PITBULL_PRINCESS1979     Edit/Delete Message
Russ,
I do agree with you on leaving the oil to Iraq to deal with.It is theirs and should remain theirs.My issues are not with the oil,my issues are with the S.O.B.'s that killed all are people on 9/11.As for Bush..I did not vote for him.What he does,he will have to answer to GOD,not me...
Your right not all of them should die,but if we have to kill them all to get the right one,then so be it.
You are also right about America was founded by immigrants,but my family has been in this country for hundreds of years.I am sick of my tax dollars paying for all these people to start their own buisness and going to school,when I as an American have to work very hard ever day just to keep my head above the water.I am sick of them comming over here and taking all of our jobs.I am sorry if you can't speak english then they need to stay in their own country.It's not my fault that their country is poor,but them comming over here is hurting us Americans.
Why should my family have to do with out so the government can give all these people my money?Sorry,but they need to keep their a**es in their own country.You don't see me trying to go where they live.Their problems should not become my countries problem.

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Russ
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From:Vancouver, B.C. Canada
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posted 03-31-2003 09:44 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for Russ     Edit/Delete Message
I think Bush is giving alot of people a good reason to get the hell out of their country and flee for their lives.

This so called war is not a war, it is an illegal INVASION

America wouldn't let all these new immigrants come to your country if it wasn't good for your country.

A large number of them do bring big money into your economy and alot do invest in property and business. It's these ones that you don't hear about and the ones that sponge off the system that you do hear about.

Illegal aliens that cross the border illegally do not count either.

Political refugees need a break. Obviously where they are coming from is a hell. Would you turn away a starving homeless dog? Well thats what these people are similar too.

If they didn't have jobs, they would be on social assistance/welfare and that would be even worse than being employed and helping out the economy.

If you feel they are stealing jobs, well, maybe they tried harder to get it and maybe they are more qualified to have it. Maybe they take the jobs Americans don't want.

Just because one is American does not guarantee them a job.

I think you should read between the lines a bit more and not be so quick to judge peoples reasons for coming to your once great country. It is attitudes like yours that is quickly making USA become a hated culture among the other free countrys in this world.

Ignorance will only beget one thing, more ignorance.

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Albert
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From:Sydney
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posted 03-31-2003 10:59 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for Albert     Edit/Delete Message
Russ,

I would not go into length trying to convince you in anything, neither try and bring
any facts. Your attitude towards the subject is…….it is all lies anyway, Bush’s private agenda and hypothetically (as you mentioned above) bush might have fixed the 911 events. You also mentioned that the media is brainwashing everyone and that we should not believe a word we hear.

Sorry to say mate that your posts regarding this topic are most ridicules (brainwash at its best) pile of nonsenses I have heard in my life and am sure many others that took the time to go over your thoughts. You have absolutely no understanding of the middle east neither any understanding of the world order of power. To be frank…the only ignorance
I can see is in your posts. you are extremely naive and topic ignorant.


1) Imagine this: World without the USA – No USA. Are you able to imagine such world ?

2) The western media is full of propaganda – Do you suggest we should all tune in to El-G’azira for propaganda free world news or maybe we should listen to Iraq’s radio channels? Surly they will be propaganda and LIES free.

3) Would you be able to imagine peaceful Canada located somewhere in the middle east? Would you have lived there if it did?

4) Sadam GASSING is own people killing thousands of innocent civilians, invading neighboring countries, having his army rape, massacre and behead innocent civilians are these lies as well ? is this propaganda ? do you need more proof the guy is a real nut case ?

5) Could you imagine what would have happened if Israel did not destroy his nuclear reactor some 12 years ago ?

[This message has been edited by Albert (edited 03-31-2003).]

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Albert
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From:Sydney
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posted 03-31-2003 11:42 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for Albert     Edit/Delete Message
Here are some more questions:

Imagine Iraq invading the USA or Canada. Imagine they had all the arsenal the US have.

1)Do you think they would have bothered with pin point targeting to avoid civilians casualties as much as possible? Do you think they would have hesitated using nuclear weapons?

2)Would Saddam would have gone to the UN before invading?

3)Saddam's ministers on TV interviews SAYING that suicide bombing will continue and even increase. Do you know any other army using such tactics? Using kids to blow up soldiers?

4)Saddam hiding his troops in the heart of Baghdad within heavily populated areas. Is this a lie as well? do you know any other leaders taking such approach?

5)Saddam shooting scud missiles over Israel, Saudi-Arabia, and Kuwait’s heavily populated areas during gulf war 1, Is this a lie as well?. Why did he do it? His enemy at the time was the USA.


One should know a nut case when he sees one……that’s the reason god gave us brains.
I do not need any more proof then that to be 150% convinced that Saddam and his regime must be destroyed and removed for god. It is a very dirty job but someone has to do it. Thank god for the USA. They were the only nation which stood up to Hitler as well !!.
You guys can brag all you want and continue bashing the US.……time will tell, you’ll be all eating your hats (sooner or later) when we all discover what Saddam was hiding under his bed. And once the world start hearing about the horrible abuse his people were subject to during his rule.

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Russ
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From:Vancouver, B.C. Canada
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posted 04-01-2003 02:51 AM     Click Here to See the Profile for Russ     Edit/Delete Message
When USA takes possesion of Iraq and owns the oilfields and kills Saddam, do you think USA will leave? will taxes go down? will gas prices go down? will everyone in USA get a better job? You want to know where all your taxes are going to? not to new immigrants looking for a new life, job and education, its to pay for Bush's army to invade a foreign land.

Your taxes will go up so that Bush can keep and protect the oil. He will use all of USA resources to protect his familys prize possesion and not share any of it with the ones that gave their lives for it. Your country will be tarnished. He is THE COLD BLOODED KILLER that hides behind lies. He doesn't care about the impoverished people of Iraq, Don't make me laugh Albert, his reasons are very clear as to why he invaded Iraq. You are truely blind if you cannot see through it.

I do not deny that Saddam is as cold blooded as Bush, I never have either. I never said he should not be overthrown either. I think he should be. Then leave the damn country alone, USA is not here to dictate to 51% of the world, disobeying UN, making his own rules, taking what he wants. He will be in the history books forever as a tyrant.

You attack my words with blather Albert, we all have our own opinions and theories. You are the one with brainwashed opinions lol, you should be an American that makes less than 35K a year and drinks 8-12 beers a night , has 3-6 kids he can't afford before 30, watches football all weekend, drives a beat up truck, lives paycheck to paycheck and buys $100 in lotto tickets a week. It's the American dream!!!!!!!
Keep watching the news Albert. It was written that way for people like you lol.

You can gather whatever you want from my previous posts, but it truly seems like you are just understanding them they way your brainwashed mind is programmed to percieve it.

Call me paranoid, call it conspiracy theory or whatever, but what it all comes down to is Bush is a criminal, some may call him a hero, but he is only getting this recognition because he is taking out what everyone has been brainwashed to percieve as a larger threat.

Russ the out of line Canuck
===========================
only here because Bush is

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Russ
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From:Vancouver, B.C. Canada
Registered: Dec 2002

posted 04-01-2003 03:17 AM     Click Here to See the Profile for Russ     Edit/Delete Message
My answers are for you alone albert, because I think you are ridiculous. Your questions are irrelavent to my arguments.
I honestly cant answer a single one of them.
I am not a fairy tale Posted by.

1) Imagine this: World without the USA – No USA. Are you able to imagine such world ?

"oh no!!!!, i think we would all be back in the medievil days, using torches for light and fires to cook. you are a nut albert, to think the world revolves around usa, a country that spends a large % of its taxes on military & weapons, they are just a big bully, but in an uncivilized world, yes, i agree, they may be the superpower of the planet."

2) The western media is full of propaganda – Do you suggest we should all tune in to El-G’azira for propaganda free world news or maybe we should listen to Iraq’s radio channels? Surly they will be propaganda and LIES free.

"If you really believe the media out of the USA is full of truth, you are truely hopelessly out of reach .bad analogy please make some better ones that a moron like me could actually relate to"

3) Would you be able to imagine peaceful Canada located somewhere in the middle east? Would you have lived there if it did?

"well i dont live there, canada is not there, i suppose you can imagine such silly things in your mind huh? like what if bush was the dictator in iraq and saddam was the dictator of usa lol, keep reading your comic books albert-----i can imagine where canada would be if we had the largest oil reserve in the world, we would have been invaded killed and forced to accept it if we didnt agree to their terms. can you see it any another way albert? north us america"

4) Sadam GASSING is own people killing thousands of innocent civilians, invading neighboring countries, having his army rape, massacre and behead innocent civilians are these lies as well ? is this propaganda ? do you need more proof the guy is a real nut case ?

" you know what??? alot of these things happen in the streets of USA every fricken day... people dying from drugs, fathers raping daughters and sons, parents killing their children, killed by mainiacs with guns, beat up by husbands or shot by wives, bullys killing geeks, drunk drivers mowing down pedestrians, list goes on. "

5) Could you imagine what would have happened if Israel did not destroy his nuclear reactor some 12 years ago ?

"maybe they would be part of iraq?? i dont know, its impossible to know?? im debating now, not then. can you imagine if clinton was still the president?"

Imagine Iraq invading the USA or Canada. Imagine they had all the arsenal the US have.

1)Do you think they would have bothered with pin point targeting to avoid civilians casualties as much as possible? Do you think they would have hesitated using nuclear weapons?

"with 40 year old weapons? naw i dont think so, i think they would be throwing them at us"

2)Would Saddam would have gone to the UN before invading?

"he is not part of it so he does not follow rules or a standard, USA however is or was part of it, i would think that you believe usa WAS the UN tho =P"

3)Saddam's ministers on TV interviews SAYING that suicide bombing will continue and even increase. Do you know any other army using such tactics? Using kids to blow up soldiers?

"nope but it sure makes me scared to know that they would give up their lives for their cause"

4)Saddam hiding his troops in the heart of Baghdad within heavily populated areas. Is this a lie as well? do you know any other leaders taking such approach?

"it works doesnt it?? I am not defending his tactics, but it seems to me that there are no rules to this campaign. either you win or loose"

5)Saddam shooting scud missiles over Israel, Saudi-Arabia, and Kuwait’s heavily populated areas during gulf war 1, Is this a lie as well?. Why did he do it? His enemy at the time was the USA.

"saddam can do whatever he likes, he is the leader of a country, didnt you know that as soon as you are a leader of a country you can do whatever the hell you want"

God bless america and no one else lol keep the faith albert

[This message has been edited by Russ (edited 04-01-2003).]

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Russ
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From:Vancouver, B.C. Canada
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posted 04-01-2003 03:22 AM     Click Here to See the Profile for Russ     Edit/Delete Message
acidental post

[This message has been edited by Russ (edited 04-01-2003).]

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Albert
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From:Sydney
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posted 04-01-2003 04:33 AM     Click Here to See the Profile for Albert     Edit/Delete Message
Russ,

You are even dumber then what i originally thought. Sorry my mistake. I normally don't argue with kids.

You are brainwashed to the point of no return......get a better set of glasses man.
And don’t you tell me I’m brainwashed…….i grow up in the middle east and moved to Australia aged 22. I know the story from very very close.

You would have had Russian soldiers drinking vodka right inside your house(probably using your head as a table) if not for American tax payers money paying for weapons of mass destructions. But your too young or too stupid to understand that or both.

Your posts suggest that you are both…

OK I’m off to watch some state sponsored censored media...hahahahah f*****G ridicules.

On one of your earlier post you even suggested that Chinese media is the real thing and is not censored.....hahahahah

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waterboy
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posted 04-01-2003 04:55 AM           Edit/Delete Message
Normally old people need glasses to see clear today's world, and normally, I respect old people, because I think older people should be smarter by learning from their mistakes, but "normally I don't argue with kids..." sounds very very stupid...especially a cold blood, stubborn and reject to learn the new things and take a closer look of today's world, just like a person who doesn't believe the computer and try to beat the calculation speed of computer, becuase he already knew how to add 4+4 before the computer was invented...because in front of him, even the fastest computer is just a kid....
Why don't you immigrate to USA?hahah, because they won't accept you! Don't believe it, try it... By your age, you can only become an American by paying the government....If you don't believe it, just try it....So, please get a new pair of glasses, and with a open mind, to learn more about today's world, you will feel that you will learn more...
One more point, I believe that united nations's decision is smart and shows most of the contries' opinion, because in this world, we need an organization to balance the world, because we need a peaceful world to live... And each country should take care their own business, just like no one should kick your front door, and tell you that you should sleep in the living room, not your bed room....and what to eat and how to cook for your dinner... Because it is not your business....if anyone does that to you, you will call "911", well, for us, united nations is kind of '911' we call when we get into some troubles... but now, the Americans just say 'f***k off" to the united nations, and still do what they like to do, but honestly, not more than 50% of American like that decision, I am one of them, but I am not the person in control....

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Albert
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posted 04-01-2003 05:32 AM     Click Here to See the Profile for Albert     Edit/Delete Message
Waterboy, heres your today world and the so called UN.

A state sponsoring terror like Syria heading the UN security council.

African states (known to abuse human rights.....daily) heading the human rights committee.

Or how about the UN being reluctant to take any action in Yugoslavia, or Afghanistan or stop the massacres in Africa.

The UN is just an empty dieing “good idea” and is now seeing its last days.
The US is paying 50% of this organization expenses anyway (and i think was the one to form this body to begin with, surly not Canada, France, Germany etc.). Lets see this great organization once the US pulls out of it altogether. It is just a one big good idea “want to be” and nothing else. Empty, no real substance accept for the various food programs which I fully support. The rest is just UH (united handicapped).

[This message has been edited by Albert (edited 04-01-2003).]

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Russ
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From:Vancouver, B.C. Canada
Registered: Dec 2002

posted 04-01-2003 05:38 AM     Click Here to See the Profile for Russ     Edit/Delete Message

I won't argue your point about the cold war.
And yes, I am probably quite young compared to you.

I said,
I dont agree with the reason bush is invading Iraq.

I said I believe Bush is only after the oil.

I said the US media is all biased BS

I said Bush is a dictator himself

I said there is no evidence to support the reason bush claims to invading Iraq for except for humanitarian reasons, so why didn't he wait for UN approval?

I said bush uses propaganda

I said bush is a hypocrite

I said usa will never even lift a finger against N korea as long as PRC is backing them

I said going over to kill them all is a bad attitude

I said saddam complied with the UN

I said america was founded by immigrants

I said you are ridiculous lol

Keep watching your boob tube.
Old fools will never change their beliefs or habits, they will continue to be ignorant and stubborn the rest of their lives, and be led like a cow to slaughter by the hand that feeds them.

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Albert
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From:Sydney
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posted 04-01-2003 06:24 AM     Click Here to See the Profile for Albert     Edit/Delete Message
>I won't argue your point about the cold war.
>And yes, I am probably quite young compared to you.
>I said,
>I dont agree with the reason bush is invading Iraq.

Ignorance is like that. It prevents people from seeing the truth and the deep reasons behind moves like the War on Iraq. You don’t have a clue about the full picture and the troubles that Saddam is stirring DAILY in the middle east.

>I said I believe Bush is only after the oil.

What oil was there in Afghanistan, and the US in spending billions of dollars there rebuilding the country? What oil was there in Yugoslavia?


>I said the US media is all biased BS

You mean the CNN interviewing anti war protesters every 10 fricking minutes or showing pictures of Iraqi civilians in hospitals? While reminding us how many civilians are killed daily etc. ONE HELL OF A BIASED STATION INDEED!

>I said Bush is a dictator himself

Bush is a dictator elected by the people. His term ends up soon and someone else might get elected. This is no dictatorship. Bush have the full support of the congress as well. Not that he is my hero, I’m saying no one is perfect. I’m saying he is a simple man who takes no bull from no one.

>I said there is no evidence to support the reason bush claims to invading Iraq for
>except for humanitarian reasons, so why didn't he wait for UN approval?

The UN had a 1441 resolution giving Iraq a specific time table to comply and Iraq
just made a mockary from the all thing....is it that hard to understand such a simple fact. The UN is really worthless for not backing up its decisions.

>I said bush uses propaganda

Who’s perfect, show me one leader that didn’t. There is a specific agenda and it is Toppling Saddams regime. One must use propaganda to sell it to the people. Some do it well some fail like Bush. It is the real reasons for this war that I back however.

>I said bush is a hypocrite

Again, who’s perfect. Show me a none hypocrite politician on the face of this planet.
It is all about interest and whatever is good for ones country. Yes, oil is important
and equals money and jobes.....that simple.

>I said usa will never even lift a finger against N korea as long as PRC is backing them

Time will tell....north korea is a real problem and one that might be solved politically. However, if all fails action WILL BE TAKEN to topple the regime over there as well.

>I said going over to kill them all is a bad attitude

I fully agree with this statement pitbullprincess is wrong big time.

>I said Saddam complied with the UN

We don’t know that yet. Wait once they start reveling what he had hidden in Baghdad, we can argue again later. He had 12 years to come clean and he still have all kind of missiles around.

>I said america was founded by immigrants

I’ve never argued this point.

>I said you are ridiculous lol

That’s what your little handicapped brain leads you to believe because you can’t think of real (mature) answers to my relatively simple questions.

>Keep watching your boob tube.
>Old fools will never change their beliefs or habits, they will continue to be ignorant
>and stubborn the rest of their lives, and be led like a cow to slaughter by the hand
>that feeds them.

Keep believing that anyone which do not agree with your position is a fool and is brainwashed. Real fools (like in your case) can never see the full picture it is above them. They do tend to jump with empty statements though. They say about fools that they are like empty tin cans, drop them and they’ll make lots of noise. Real substance is missing but. Tin is empty.

[This message has been edited by Albert (edited 04-01-2003).]

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