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Posted by Topic subject:   Topic starter - war on Iraq
PITBULL_PRINCESS1979
Member

Posts: 414
From:LOUISIANA,USA
Registered: Dec 2002

posted 03-26-2003 10:28 AM     Click Here to See the Profile for PITBULL_PRINCESS1979     Edit/Delete Message
Russ,
I am not here to try to change you mind.I am just speaking my opinion.You have the right to believe what ever you want,just as I do.I believe in going to war.I do feel that the reasons have gotten off track,but as long as they pay for what they did I don't care.I don't believe Saddom was the master mind,but he is conected to Osama and that is enough for me.I hope they all burn for what they did.I feel no guilt or saddness for them.He was given his choice and he picked the wrong one.So now he has to pay for it.If we would have killed him the first time we would not be going through this.A mistake on the US's part.We should have done it right the first time.
I feel that if a country is not with us then they are aginst us,so,therefor they can not be trusted.Blow them up too.

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Russ
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Posts: 147
From:Vancouver, B.C. Canada
Registered: Dec 2002

posted 03-26-2003 03:07 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for Russ     Edit/Delete Message
I respect your opinion Princess,

I am trying to find some truthful answers, I did find them from a friend in another forum. But I won't get into it here, unless you want to hear it.

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PITBULL_PRINCESS1979
Member

Posts: 414
From:LOUISIANA,USA
Registered: Dec 2002

posted 03-26-2003 04:33 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for PITBULL_PRINCESS1979     Edit/Delete Message
Russ,
It's up to you if you want to talk about it.I have respect for what you are saying.I like to hear other people input on things.I try very hard not to be a closed minded person.It might not always seem that way...lol..but I try..Feel free to talk about anything.

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Russ
Member

Posts: 147
From:Vancouver, B.C. Canada
Registered: Dec 2002

posted 03-27-2003 04:57 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for Russ     Edit/Delete Message
This is a quote from Robin, a member of our NG. It is whole and uneditted

"> I am trying to find out some information about this war.
>
> 1) Is there evidence as to whom was responsible for the 911 attack?
> 2) What is Bush's #1 reason for going to war with Iraq?
> 3) Are the people of Iraq truely in need of humanitarian help? If so, were
> they before USA attacked?
> 4) What was Bush seniors reason for the Gulf war?


I don't think any of us here have any way of knowing the "truth" of it all.
I certainly have some opinions that I'm sure will not be received well.

First of all let me say that Saddam is definitely a very evil man. He took
over his country in a violent overthrow, and has killed anyone who has
opposed him since. He is a billionaire living off the natural resources of
his country, while his people starve. He is almost certainly in violation
of U.N. resolution 1441 that restricts Iraq from having or manufacturing
chemical and biological weapons. His countrymen need help getting rid of
him. These are points that almost anyone will agree with.

However, it is a violation of international law to invade a country without
prior approval from the U.N. Security Council UNLESS it is in self defense.
International law defines self defense as a response to agression, not a
pre-emptive strike to prevent agression. This is the first time in my
nation's history that it has ever broken that law. There was a resolution
on the table at the U.N. to send peacekeeping forces into Iraq. France and
Russia were two of the major hold outs to this resolution passing. If given
enough time however, this resolution would have surely passed at some point.

Here's where my personal opinions come into play. France was a holdout on
the resolution because they currently have very significant holdings in the
Iraqi oil industry. Russia because Iraq is a big customer for their surplus
military supplies.

The cost of rebuilding Iraq after the war will be high, and it has been
clearly stated that Iraq's oil resources will be taken over to pay for the
rebuilding. Had the U.N. resolution passed, then the all of the member
nations of the U.N. that were part of the peacekeeping forces sent to Iraq,
would be responsible for the rebuilding of Iraq, therefore they would have
all shared Iraqi oil resources. As it stands now, the United States and
Brittain will be responsible for the rebuilding of Iraq, therefore they are
the only two nations that will have rights to Iraq's oil resources. I am of
the opinion that this has ALOT to do with not giving the reolution to send
in peacekeeping forces more time to pass in the U.N.

The Bush's are an old oil family. President Bush has filled his cabinet
with people from the oil industry, and other big business. Most of his
political advisors are captains of industry. Both he and his father are
members of the secret Skull and Crossbones Society at Yale. (this is the
group that the movie The Skulls was based upon)

Even though I recognize that the U.S. is in violation of international law,
I support our troops. I wish that each and every one of them could return
home safe and sound. None of the 19 hijackers responsible for 911 were
Iraqi. 15 of them were from Saudi Arabia (supposed allies) Saddam does
however support terrorism. He gives the families of Iraqi suicide bombers
$25,000, which I am sure is a huge fortune to many of them.

Robin"

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PITBULL_PRINCESS1979
Member

Posts: 414
From:LOUISIANA,USA
Registered: Dec 2002

posted 03-28-2003 11:01 AM     Click Here to See the Profile for PITBULL_PRINCESS1979     Edit/Delete Message
I agree with alot of things she said.They have alot of truth to them.I do not disagree with her about Bush.For what ever reason he wanted to go to war..I don't care.He is taking out a man that supports terrorist.We do not know exactly who did it on 9/11 but I am sure Saddam had something to do with it.
War is bad no matter what,but I do support it.There will be many innocent lives lost,but that is just a sacrifice that will be made .. so more people can live.
This is just how the world we live in works,it sucks,but that is just the way it is.

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shmoopie
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Posts: 361
From:Vancouver, BC
Registered: Jan 2003

posted 03-28-2003 02:43 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for shmoopie   Click Here to Email shmoopie     Edit/Delete Message
I was wondering where everyone was

This is a very heavy subject that seems well debated. Russ and Pit Princess...you two are getting across very strongly and you both make valid points...good job!

I wanted to point out that I am not sure where my heart falls...I believe Saddam needs to be removed from his position; however, I do not believe Bush's intentions are all that sincere. I would like to see these people saved from their disctator..he's a real jerk. I have many Iranian and Iraqi friends and they are wonderful people who escaped from their country to get away from Saddam. I do not wish for them all to die and think it is very racist a statement to be said...they are not all evil, they are brainwashed and most want the help from the US. It makes me happy to see the Iraqis awaiting the arrival of the Americans and turning on their own dictator.

Why are people stating that they should all die? They are not all evil people...I really don't like to hear that closed minded bull s**t

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PITBULL_PRINCESS1979
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Posts: 414
From:LOUISIANA,USA
Registered: Dec 2002

posted 03-28-2003 06:40 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for PITBULL_PRINCESS1979     Edit/Delete Message
Shmoopie,
I have to disagree..Maybe I should not say they should all die,but they need to go back to their own country..After 9/11 alot of Americans do not feel safe with them here.I am one of them.I feel this way about anyones family that was not born and raised here.I don't trust any of them anymore.you can call me a racest if you life,but that is how I feel.

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Russ
Member

Posts: 147
From:Vancouver, B.C. Canada
Registered: Dec 2002

posted 03-30-2003 06:09 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for Russ     Edit/Delete Message
[quote]
Shmoopie,
I have to disagree..Maybe I should not say they should all die,but they need to go back to their own country..After 9/11 alot of Americans do not feel safe with them here.I am one of them.I feel this way about anyones family that was not born and raised here.I don't trust any of them anymore.you can call me a racest if you life,but that is how I feel.[quote]

Who's country is it? The land of the free as long as you are born here? All Present Americans come from some foreign land and all of them immigrated to America due to conflicts in their homeland, religion, or whatever reason they have. Don't forget, America was created by immigrants.
I think the brainwashed "freedom" is a big reason why so many other countries find USA appealing, but its changing now. Your president is tarnishing your American dream image. He doesn't care either. He want money, thats the 1 and only thing he is after, he doesnt want your support, he has it already by kissing ass to get elected, the presidency is just a tool of his to get the oil. UK is his joe boy.
You will see. Bush cares less about his station ,you as an american and any 3rd world country.

I do agree that Saddam should be removed from power, but then what? Steal away the country's single resource that it has relied on for it's economy? HAHA, when Saddam is gone, the oil will be too, well I mean it will not belong to Irag anymore, Iraq will be a USA controlled country just like Hong Kong was to UK. That is wrong in this day and age.

Why not just kill Saddam and leave the rest to Iraq to deal with?

Won't happen.

Killing them all is a very closed minded statement and it doesn't suit you well. It doesnt suit anyone. They all don't deserve to die for 1 mans actions

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PITBULL_PRINCESS1979
Member

Posts: 414
From:LOUISIANA,USA
Registered: Dec 2002

posted 03-31-2003 12:08 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for PITBULL_PRINCESS1979     Edit/Delete Message
Russ,
I do agree with you on leaving the oil to Iraq to deal with.It is theirs and should remain theirs.My issues are not with the oil,my issues are with the S.O.B.'s that killed all are people on 9/11.As for Bush..I did not vote for him.What he does,he will have to answer to GOD,not me...
Your right not all of them should die,but if we have to kill them all to get the right one,then so be it.
You are also right about America was founded by immigrants,but my family has been in this country for hundreds of years.I am sick of my tax dollars paying for all these people to start their own buisness and going to school,when I as an American have to work very hard ever day just to keep my head above the water.I am sick of them comming over here and taking all of our jobs.I am sorry if you can't speak english then they need to stay in their own country.It's not my fault that their country is poor,but them comming over here is hurting us Americans.
Why should my family have to do with out so the government can give all these people my money?Sorry,but they need to keep their a**es in their own country.You don't see me trying to go where they live.Their problems should not become my countries problem.

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Russ
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Posts: 147
From:Vancouver, B.C. Canada
Registered: Dec 2002

posted 03-31-2003 09:44 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for Russ     Edit/Delete Message
I think Bush is giving alot of people a good reason to get the hell out of their country and flee for their lives.

This so called war is not a war, it is an illegal INVASION

America wouldn't let all these new immigrants come to your country if it wasn't good for your country.

A large number of them do bring big money into your economy and alot do invest in property and business. It's these ones that you don't hear about and the ones that sponge off the system that you do hear about.

Illegal aliens that cross the border illegally do not count either.

Political refugees need a break. Obviously where they are coming from is a hell. Would you turn away a starving homeless dog? Well thats what these people are similar too.

If they didn't have jobs, they would be on social assistance/welfare and that would be even worse than being employed and helping out the economy.

If you feel they are stealing jobs, well, maybe they tried harder to get it and maybe they are more qualified to have it. Maybe they take the jobs Americans don't want.

Just because one is American does not guarantee them a job.

I think you should read between the lines a bit more and not be so quick to judge peoples reasons for coming to your once great country. It is attitudes like yours that is quickly making USA become a hated culture among the other free countrys in this world.

Ignorance will only beget one thing, more ignorance.

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Albert
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Posts: 143
From:Sydney
Registered: Oct 2002

posted 03-31-2003 10:59 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for Albert     Edit/Delete Message
Russ,

I would not go into length trying to convince you in anything, neither try and bring
any facts. Your attitude towards the subject is…….it is all lies anyway, Bush’s private agenda and hypothetically (as you mentioned above) bush might have fixed the 911 events. You also mentioned that the media is brainwashing everyone and that we should not believe a word we hear.

Sorry to say mate that your posts regarding this topic are most ridicules (brainwash at its best) pile of nonsenses I have heard in my life and am sure many others that took the time to go over your thoughts. You have absolutely no understanding of the middle east neither any understanding of the world order of power. To be frank…the only ignorance
I can see is in your posts. you are extremely naive and topic ignorant.


1) Imagine this: World without the USA – No USA. Are you able to imagine such world ?

2) The western media is full of propaganda – Do you suggest we should all tune in to El-G’azira for propaganda free world news or maybe we should listen to Iraq’s radio channels? Surly they will be propaganda and LIES free.

3) Would you be able to imagine peaceful Canada located somewhere in the middle east? Would you have lived there if it did?

4) Sadam GASSING is own people killing thousands of innocent civilians, invading neighboring countries, having his army rape, massacre and behead innocent civilians are these lies as well ? is this propaganda ? do you need more proof the guy is a real nut case ?

5) Could you imagine what would have happened if Israel did not destroy his nuclear reactor some 12 years ago ?

[This message has been edited by Albert (edited 03-31-2003).]

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Albert
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From:Sydney
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posted 03-31-2003 11:42 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for Albert     Edit/Delete Message
Here are some more questions:

Imagine Iraq invading the USA or Canada. Imagine they had all the arsenal the US have.

1)Do you think they would have bothered with pin point targeting to avoid civilians casualties as much as possible? Do you think they would have hesitated using nuclear weapons?

2)Would Saddam would have gone to the UN before invading?

3)Saddam's ministers on TV interviews SAYING that suicide bombing will continue and even increase. Do you know any other army using such tactics? Using kids to blow up soldiers?

4)Saddam hiding his troops in the heart of Baghdad within heavily populated areas. Is this a lie as well? do you know any other leaders taking such approach?

5)Saddam shooting scud missiles over Israel, Saudi-Arabia, and Kuwait’s heavily populated areas during gulf war 1, Is this a lie as well?. Why did he do it? His enemy at the time was the USA.


One should know a nut case when he sees one……that’s the reason god gave us brains.
I do not need any more proof then that to be 150% convinced that Saddam and his regime must be destroyed and removed for god. It is a very dirty job but someone has to do it. Thank god for the USA. They were the only nation which stood up to Hitler as well !!.
You guys can brag all you want and continue bashing the US.……time will tell, you’ll be all eating your hats (sooner or later) when we all discover what Saddam was hiding under his bed. And once the world start hearing about the horrible abuse his people were subject to during his rule.

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Russ
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Posts: 147
From:Vancouver, B.C. Canada
Registered: Dec 2002

posted 04-01-2003 02:51 AM     Click Here to See the Profile for Russ     Edit/Delete Message
When USA takes possesion of Iraq and owns the oilfields and kills Saddam, do you think USA will leave? will taxes go down? will gas prices go down? will everyone in USA get a better job? You want to know where all your taxes are going to? not to new immigrants looking for a new life, job and education, its to pay for Bush's army to invade a foreign land.

Your taxes will go up so that Bush can keep and protect the oil. He will use all of USA resources to protect his familys prize possesion and not share any of it with the ones that gave their lives for it. Your country will be tarnished. He is THE COLD BLOODED KILLER that hides behind lies. He doesn't care about the impoverished people of Iraq, Don't make me laugh Albert, his reasons are very clear as to why he invaded Iraq. You are truely blind if you cannot see through it.

I do not deny that Saddam is as cold blooded as Bush, I never have either. I never said he should not be overthrown either. I think he should be. Then leave the damn country alone, USA is not here to dictate to 51% of the world, disobeying UN, making his own rules, taking what he wants. He will be in the history books forever as a tyrant.

You attack my words with blather Albert, we all have our own opinions and theories. You are the one with brainwashed opinions lol, you should be an American that makes less than 35K a year and drinks 8-12 beers a night , has 3-6 kids he can't afford before 30, watches football all weekend, drives a beat up truck, lives paycheck to paycheck and buys $100 in lotto tickets a week. It's the American dream!!!!!!!
Keep watching the news Albert. It was written that way for people like you lol.

You can gather whatever you want from my previous posts, but it truly seems like you are just understanding them they way your brainwashed mind is programmed to percieve it.

Call me paranoid, call it conspiracy theory or whatever, but what it all comes down to is Bush is a criminal, some may call him a hero, but he is only getting this recognition because he is taking out what everyone has been brainwashed to percieve as a larger threat.

Russ the out of line Canuck
===========================
only here because Bush is

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Russ
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Posts: 147
From:Vancouver, B.C. Canada
Registered: Dec 2002

posted 04-01-2003 03:17 AM     Click Here to See the Profile for Russ     Edit/Delete Message
My answers are for you alone albert, because I think you are ridiculous. Your questions are irrelavent to my arguments.
I honestly cant answer a single one of them.
I am not a fairy tale Posted by.

1) Imagine this: World without the USA – No USA. Are you able to imagine such world ?

"oh no!!!!, i think we would all be back in the medievil days, using torches for light and fires to cook. you are a nut albert, to think the world revolves around usa, a country that spends a large % of its taxes on military & weapons, they are just a big bully, but in an uncivilized world, yes, i agree, they may be the superpower of the planet."

2) The western media is full of propaganda – Do you suggest we should all tune in to El-G’azira for propaganda free world news or maybe we should listen to Iraq’s radio channels? Surly they will be propaganda and LIES free.

"If you really believe the media out of the USA is full of truth, you are truely hopelessly out of reach .bad analogy please make some better ones that a moron like me could actually relate to"

3) Would you be able to imagine peaceful Canada located somewhere in the middle east? Would you have lived there if it did?

"well i dont live there, canada is not there, i suppose you can imagine such silly things in your mind huh? like what if bush was the dictator in iraq and saddam was the dictator of usa lol, keep reading your comic books albert-----i can imagine where canada would be if we had the largest oil reserve in the world, we would have been invaded killed and forced to accept it if we didnt agree to their terms. can you see it any another way albert? north us america"

4) Sadam GASSING is own people killing thousands of innocent civilians, invading neighboring countries, having his army rape, massacre and behead innocent civilians are these lies as well ? is this propaganda ? do you need more proof the guy is a real nut case ?

" you know what??? alot of these things happen in the streets of USA every fricken day... people dying from drugs, fathers raping daughters and sons, parents killing their children, killed by mainiacs with guns, beat up by husbands or shot by wives, bullys killing geeks, drunk drivers mowing down pedestrians, list goes on. "

5) Could you imagine what would have happened if Israel did not destroy his nuclear reactor some 12 years ago ?

"maybe they would be part of iraq?? i dont know, its impossible to know?? im debating now, not then. can you imagine if clinton was still the president?"

Imagine Iraq invading the USA or Canada. Imagine they had all the arsenal the US have.

1)Do you think they would have bothered with pin point targeting to avoid civilians casualties as much as possible? Do you think they would have hesitated using nuclear weapons?

"with 40 year old weapons? naw i dont think so, i think they would be throwing them at us"

2)Would Saddam would have gone to the UN before invading?

"he is not part of it so he does not follow rules or a standard, USA however is or was part of it, i would think that you believe usa WAS the UN tho =P"

3)Saddam's ministers on TV interviews SAYING that suicide bombing will continue and even increase. Do you know any other army using such tactics? Using kids to blow up soldiers?

"nope but it sure makes me scared to know that they would give up their lives for their cause"

4)Saddam hiding his troops in the heart of Baghdad within heavily populated areas. Is this a lie as well? do you know any other leaders taking such approach?

"it works doesnt it?? I am not defending his tactics, but it seems to me that there are no rules to this campaign. either you win or loose"

5)Saddam shooting scud missiles over Israel, Saudi-Arabia, and Kuwait’s heavily populated areas during gulf war 1, Is this a lie as well?. Why did he do it? His enemy at the time was the USA.

"saddam can do whatever he likes, he is the leader of a country, didnt you know that as soon as you are a leader of a country you can do whatever the hell you want"

God bless america and no one else lol keep the faith albert

[This message has been edited by Russ (edited 04-01-2003).]

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Russ
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Posts: 147
From:Vancouver, B.C. Canada
Registered: Dec 2002

posted 04-01-2003 03:22 AM     Click Here to See the Profile for Russ     Edit/Delete Message
acidental post

[This message has been edited by Russ (edited 04-01-2003).]

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