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 Not that bad
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| Posted by | Topic subject: Not that bad |
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Mya Ahmad Member  Posts: 21 |
posted 11-18-2003 05:27 PM
 
I own a half pit bull and half amstaff, people seem to get the dogs confused with the people who raise them. No dog is born visious, they are made visious. If all these dogs were the same i wouldnt have one in my house, and i have young kids in and out of here. I think that our dogs are now based in a stereo type, of the typical street fighting dogs. which are mostly amstaffs and pit bulls. responsible owners such as myself, shouldnt have to pay the price for irresponsible owners, who want visious dogs. From my point of view i think its not right what so ever for these people to be making dogs fight for money, when usually one them loses their lives. It's just wrong. IP: Logged |
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goob Member Posts: 353 |
posted 11-18-2003 06:46 PM
No, dogs aren't "born vicious", but they ARE born with certain genetic predispositions. APBTs are often predisposed to dog aggression. Of course, they are also predisposed to being extremely human friendly, which more than makes up for the possibility of dog aggression. Those rare few APBTs that have a predisposition FOR unstable temperaments though... will have them no matter what a person does with them. This is why people involved in rescue get in dogs who have been horribly abused, yet are still completely trustworthy and friendly, and also get in the occasional dog who is NOT trustworthy, but has lived a wonderful life, with caring owners and good care. Nature is a powerful beast, one to which man's manipulation cannot hold a candle to. IP: Logged |
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Mya Ahmad Member Posts: 21 |
posted 11-18-2003 06:56 PM
I adopted my dog from a animal rescue, and she is 9 months, she sometimes does get a little out of hand when she trying to play, but i didnt take it as anything serious. Should i worry about this? IP: Logged |
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goob Member Posts: 353 |
posted 11-18-2003 08:02 PM
Most APBTs are rough players, and as long as it doesn't bother you, it's probably just normal play. Does she settle down when you let her know you've had enough? If not, you might try to tone her down a bit, just too keep things under control, but no big deal. IP: Logged |
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Ahkahna Member Posts: 92 |
posted 11-18-2003 08:43 PM
k, this is clawing at my brain. You have an amstaff. Or do you have an APBT? Or a staffy? They are all 'relatively' the same..calling it an amstaff/pitbull is kinda redundant. this is not to be taken offensively, it's just driving me nuts. -Hannah IP: Logged |
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ignergehl Member Posts: 128 |
posted 11-18-2003 09:45 PM
Poeple have been dual-registering the two breeds for many years,but the theory behind the two dogs is quite different.The pitbull is supposed to be game,regardless of conformation,as long as its lines were pure(supposedly)it was a pit bull.The amstaff was to be bred for conformation,and stability of temperement,leading to a more uniform looking breed.In the old-school terms,it is NOT a pitbull,it is an offshoot,like the english bulldog from the olde english bulldog,and so on.This early in its evolution it still closely resembles its parent breed,but as with so many AKC dogs,it is bound to be increasingly bred for specific physical characteristics,and in many years may appear completely different.If you will look at pictures of early Bouvier des Flanders,or of the english bull terrier,you will see that the modern dogs scarcely resemble the breeds as they were before becoming registered.There is also what I consider a second offshoot,a new breed of pitbull with ridiculously large heads,120 lbs plus weigh ins and man agressive tendencies.They are still registered as American Pit Bull Terriers,but they no more mirror the original breed standard than staffys do,possibly even less. IP: Logged |
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Mya Ahmad Member Posts: 21 |
posted 11-19-2003 11:09 AM
Buddy they are 2 different types they are cousins, but they are different, especially in body structure, my dog has the looks of a pit bull but longer legs then a fully bred pit bull, and i did take that offensively, if its buggin you then keep it to your self K? On the adoption papers thats what it says, so you correct them, dont try to correct me. IP: Logged |
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Mya Ahmad Member Posts: 21 |
posted 11-19-2003 11:11 AM
You can go do your research, and then come back and try to act like you know everything.
[This message has been edited by Mya Ahmad (edited 11-19-2003).] IP: Logged |
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ignergehl Member Posts: 128 |
posted 11-19-2003 11:19 AM
Akhana is right,they are different,in physicality as well as theory,and they are bound to be VERY different someday.Why do poeple have such a hard time with this?Call a pit or staffy breeder and ask THEM, if you dont beleive me. BTW,I have owned and raised pits for over 15 years,is that enough research for you? BTW,some dogs ARE born with aggressive tendencies,same as with poeple,I know this from experience,as well. [This message has been edited by ignergehl (edited 11-19-2003).] [This message has been edited by ignergehl (edited 11-19-2003).] IP: Logged |
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Mya Ahmad Member Posts: 21 |
posted 11-19-2003 11:22 AM
Well honey i just happen to have a cousin who breeds them, itsnt that funny, they are different, your tellin me that these dogs just are called 2 different things but are exactly the same? I dont think so.. ~Mya~ IP: Logged |
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Mya Ahmad Member Posts: 21 |
posted 11-19-2003 11:24 AM
So there is no difference? I mean she's just a pit bull then? IP: Logged |
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Mya Ahmad Member Posts: 21 |
posted 11-19-2003 11:25 AM
I'm a little confused, then why did it say amstaff/ pitbull on her papers? if they are the same thing? and why are they put under two different catergories? ~mya~ [This message has been edited by Mya Ahmad (edited 11-19-2003).] IP: Logged |
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ignergehl Member Posts: 128 |
posted 11-19-2003 11:38 AM
I explained that already,they are still being dual-registerd by folks who want a tougher image for their staffies,I dont think it should be done,though, as there are fundamental differences between the breeds.Richard Stratton writes"i think the main problem was that Staff breeders became slavishly devoted to show points and were never concerned with gameness or performance in any way.""Luckily,with the ADBA,we have a better standard than the staff poeple."Read pages139 and 140 in the book,the american pit-bull terrier,and it will be explained to you. IP: Logged |
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Mya Ahmad Member Posts: 21 |
posted 11-19-2003 11:49 AM
Okay thanx, I guess, I didnt want to start an arguement but it just kinda got me mad, Because it seems like people just try to make other people look stupid, and i'm the type of person who has to prove my point, Because i was told that they are different. By alot of people. But i'll get that book and read those pages. Maybe i'll have a better understanding. IP: Logged |
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ignergehl Member Posts: 128 |
posted 11-19-2003 11:56 AM
As someone said in an earlier post,'we are like our dogs,we like to fight.'SOMEONE is gonna dissagree with anything you say!But seriously,ask any old-school pit breeder and they will tell you that staffies arent pits at all,and they WILL get offended if you try to say they are! IP: Logged |
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benny boy Member Posts: 95 |
posted 11-19-2003 11:59 AM
hey ignergehl, can i get stratons book at barnes and noble? is that the book where they talk about satan's nubby?  i heard that you can register an amstaff as a apbt but you can't register your apbt as an amstaff.....what a crazy world we live in today!!! weren't apbt's and amstaffs the same breed? but had to be called amstaffs so that the ukc would accept them? don't know if it's true, it's just what i was told. it doesn't really make sense to me though, bc amstaffs aren't game bred like pits are. does that mean that amstaffs are pits that haven't been bred for gameness just for their chisled looks? [This message has been edited by benny boy (edited 11-19-2003).] IP: Logged |
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Mya Ahmad Member Posts: 21 |
posted 11-19-2003 12:11 PM
Thanx alot guys... IP: Logged |
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ignergehl Member Posts: 128 |
posted 11-19-2003 12:21 PM
I got my copy years ago at a pet store,but im certain that if Barnes and Nobles doesnt have it on the shelf,they WILL order it for you,and theyll even call you when it arrives.No,Satans Nubby was in another book,American pit bull terriers,by Todd Fenstermacher,youll probably have to order that one for sure,it is a good book,with some neat 'merle'pit pictures! About60 years ago the akc decided to register pits but didnt like the term'pit' so changed the name.Since then most staffies have been bred for their "chiseled looks"and not for their gameness,which is the most important part of the pitbulls standard.Its why pits continue to look so different specimen to specimen,and most staffys have that even,square look.I dont understand why the akc allows dual-registered dogs,if they hate dogfighting so much?If you will read the pages I specified in Strattons book,however,apparently it was staff poeple who were upset when he said they should be considered 2 seperate breeds,and the pit poeple who agreed.Go figure! IP: Logged |
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Mya Ahmad Member Posts: 21 |
posted 11-19-2003 12:25 PM
I have a question, how do you put pictures on here? I wanna put one of my dog. IP: Logged |
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goob Member Posts: 353 |
posted 11-19-2003 01:07 PM
quote: If they're two different types, with different structures, then how is it that a dog can be registered as both am AmStaff AND an APBT, and be successfully shown as both? Like this dog: http://hartagold.com/doodle.htm
quote: Long legs mean nothing. My own APBT is a hair over 21" at the shoulder, most APBTs that are shown are under 19" or so (and that's for males). As you can see here, she's pretty leggy, though I've seen taller APBTs than her 
quote: Lots of people breed APBTs with very little knowledge as to what exactly the breed is supposed to be like.
quote: These were adoption papers, right? Most often, shelter dogs do not come with a clear cut path of lineage to trace back in order to verify what breed(s) they are. Shelter workers are usually left to guess, to the best of their knowledge, what the dog is. So she may or may not be exactly what is on her papers, no big deal.
quote: Yes, because at one point, all AmStaff stock were APBTs, so the AmStaffs and APBTs all have the same common ancestors about 10 generations back in the pedigrees, APBTs. All the dogs were APBTs, mostly registered with the UKC, but the AKC didn't like the name, so they accepted numerous APBTs as AmStaffs. IMO AmStaffs and show APBTs are pretty much the same breed, bred primarily for a pretty face, with a few breeders actually looking for working ability in the dogs and selecting breeding stock based on their ability. Then gamebred/performance APBTs are a whole 'nother breed, almost all bred for working ability, not looks. So... I'd say that AmStaffs and APBTs could be the "same", depending on what type of APBT you were talknig about. Then BYB dogs are the bottom of the barrel, not really bred for anything, or in some cases, bred selectively for traits completely opposite of the APBT. IP: Logged |
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Mya Ahmad Member Posts: 21 |
posted 11-19-2003 01:16 PM
What brought this arguement back up?? I thought this was already cleared up, whats up with this , This is honestly a stupid thing to be arguing over so when someone can come up with something better to argue about, Then i'd waste my time, But i honestly dont care what she is, I love her and shes my baby, so pit bull, amstaff whatever she's still my little girl. ~mya~ *****EDIT******* [This message has been edited by Jas (edited 11-20-2003).] IP: Logged |
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benny boy Member Posts: 95 |
posted 11-19-2003 01:20 PM
goob how do you quote people like that? i wanna do it too. IP: Logged |
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goob Member Posts: 353 |
posted 11-19-2003 01:25 PM
You put [ quote]whatever you're quoting[ /quote] without the spaces between the bracket thingy and the word "quote". Hope that made sense  IP: Logged |
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benny boy Member Posts: 95 |
posted 11-19-2003 01:30 PM
let's see quote: heck yeah!! took me a few tries but i got it thanks [This message has been edited by benny boy (edited 11-19-2003).] IP: Logged |
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neek Member Posts: 196 |
posted 11-19-2003 09:00 PM
WHOOOAA!! I've had my fair share of arguments but I'm glad to say this is one that I'm sitting out!! Mainly because I don't have a clue what an Amstaff is!!! IP: Logged |
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