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 PITTS ARE "NOT" ALL THE SAME
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| Posted by | Topic subject: PITTS ARE "NOT" ALL THE SAME |
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abluemoon2001@hotmail.com unregistered |
posted 10-22-2003 10:36 PM
PITBULLS ARE SOMETIMES MISLEAD INTO THINGS THEY ARE NOT! PITTBULLS ARE VERY AGGRESSIVE AND JELOUS DOGS. JUST LIKE ANY BREED OF A DOG; CAN BE. IF YOU RAISE A DOG AROUND GROWN ADULTS AND THEY ARE USED TO GETTING ALL THE ATTENTION, EVENTUALLY YOU BRING A SMALL CHILD AROUND THE DOG, THEY WILL SHOW RESENTMENT TOWARDS THAT CHILD BECAUSE THERE NOT GETTING ALL THE ATTENTION ANY LONGER. ALSO IT MAY NOT ALWAYS BE THE DOG'S FAULT TO ATTACK ANYONE, ITS ALL ABOUT HOW THEY ARE RAISED AND INSTEAD OF MAKING THEM THE # 1 FEARED DOG THEY SHOULD START FEARING SOME OWNERS, THEY ARE IN THE "WRONG" HERE. I HAVE A 3 YEAR OLD BRINDLE PITBULL WHO IS RAISED AROUND MY FAMILY INCLUDING 2 CHILDREN AGES 1YEAR AND 4 YEARS. MY DOG HAS NEVER HARMED EITHER OF MY CHILDREN, IN FACT SHE IS VARY PROTECTIVE OVER MY CHILDREN. MY CHILDREN CAN PLAY WITH HER, TAKE HER BONES.. TOYS.. FOOD, EVEN SIT ON HER IN A DEAD SLEEP AND SHE HAS NEVER BEEN AGGRESSIVE AROUND THEM. SHE ALSO JUST HAD A NEW LITTER OF TEN PUPPY'S, EVEN THOUGH DOGS REALLY BECOME PROTECTIVE DURING THIS TIME, SHE HAS STILL BEEN GENTLE, LOVING, AND A FAMILY DOG WITHOUT TURNING OR ACTING ANY DIFFRENT TOWARDS MY FAMILY, MY POINT I AM TRYING TO SAY PITBULLS, ANY BREED IN GENERAL DO NOT ACT AS MOST BECAUSE OF IT'S BREED "IT'S ALL ABOUT WHAT THE OWNER'S RAISED THE BREED TO BE!" IP: Logged |
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goob Member  Posts: 353 |
posted 10-22-2003 11:31 PM
Pit bulls are NOT "aggressive and jealous dogs". Actually a pit bull is much less likely to be "aggressive" than most other breeds, no matter how it is raised, because genetics has made the breed that way.
quote: We have a pit bull who wasn't around any kids at all for almost her first two years, she's been around several since she's been here, been fine with every one of them. No pit bull should show resentment to a child they have been properly introduced to. The breed's problems stems not from people who fear the breed, but from owners who insist on breeding sub-quality dogs (who should simply be kept as loving/loved pets) and adding more pit bulls to a system that is already overcrowded with pit bulls. IP: Logged |
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ignergehl Member Posts: 128 |
posted 10-24-2003 08:41 AM
unfortunatly,I had to euthanize my perfectly healthy son because he had such an intense drive he was out of hand!he was out of my own litter, he was born in my closet,I pulled him out of his mama..he was correctly trainedfrom a dominance viewpoint,he new several commands including some silent ones.If you threw the ball for him he would skid several feet and rip his pads clean off.he would never have bitten me or close family but he snapped at my best friend a couple of times.then one day I saw him curling his lip at my sons 6 year old friends and made the instant decicion tohave this dog I adored put down.He weighed 125 pounds and was extemelly game.He had no good reason for his aggression having been well socialized,he just was a "working pit", instead of a pet.I made my decicion because in my current situation I was unable to provide the work he needed.please dont think a pit will never become aggresive,the difference is with proper training he will show signs of it long before taking action.a spoiled or untrained pit is the one who will suddenly attack for no reason.(this goes for nearly any breed by the way)its just that if a pit does become aggressive its a very scary thing.please be certain to meet BOTH parents of your prospective pup.See that they are calm and easygoing, that is the main thing!!(my dog was from 'gametested'high energy dogs and I should have known better.this is one of my demons... [This message has been edited by ignergehl (edited 10-24-2003).] IP: Logged |
RottyMommy Moderator Posts: 449 |
posted 10-24-2003 10:06 AM
Ok tlet me see if I can put this without becomeing harsh. The postings I have read here except for Goobs are very ignorant statements. First off any dog can become aggressive, any dog can bite. To sit here and be like dont think a pitbull can never become aggressive thats ignorance. People should think more on the lines that any dog can become aggressive, ANY dog can bite!! I rescue rottweilers and the most aggressive dog I have ever rescued was a golden retriever. Would have bit any child, dog, or men that came his way. The dog now lives with a single lady and with training the dog has changed tremendously. The second thing I wanted to say is there are very few cases with dog issues that with enough time, work, and love cannot be overcome. I have a rescued rottweiler I got in back April. She was raised by a man that let her get away with everything, would leave for long periods at a time and make her hold her bladder, then when she was too unruly for him he gave her up. Thats how I ended up with her. When she came to me she was very domineering, unruly, undisciplined, resource guarded, was fear aggressive, and just had alot of issues. With alot of time, discipline, training, and love we have over come alot of her issues. She no longer is fear aggressive, she now follows commands, is disciplined, her resource guarding {which is one of the hardest things to overcome can take years} is almost completely gone, and she no longer plops her butt on the floor and refuses to listen to me. It was all done with positive reinforcement and a stern voice, and a prong collar with a couple issues. So dont sit there and tell me that a dog should be put down just cuz it has issues. I was told by my vet that because she bit us we should put her down. I was told by trained behaviorists that her problems were unfixable. But the true Daisy has shined through. She loves everyone and thinks everyone was put on this earth to give her attenstion. The problem with too many people today is they get a cute little pup then the first issues they have with it they either put it down or give it away. A pet is for life. People need to wake up and take responsibility for their actions. There are too many backyard breeders out there that are breeding dogs outside of standard and with tmeperaments to match the bad physique. But people only care about the money. Daisy was the product of a byb. Her head is bigger than a rotty with her skull coming to a point on the top of her head. She weights 115 pounds which is too large for standard. Let alone she has the genetic makeup to have issues than she wound up with this young guy who thought it would be cool to have a rotty. He rought housed with her, teased her with toys, it was all cute when she was a pup but then she grew up and the stubborn puppy who would bite him all the time. The bites now hurt and he couldnt just pick her up and move her anymore. People wake up. Stop breeding byb dogs. Stop the overpopulation and take responsibility for the pets you choose in life! IP: Logged |
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goob Member Posts: 353 |
posted 10-24-2003 11:40 AM
quote: This is not an example of a dog with simple "intense drive", it's an example of an unstable dog with an aggression problem. There are THOUSANDS of pit bulls in existance with "intense drive" who do not bite people, so drive has nothing to do with the situation.
quote: The only way to test a dog for gameness is to fight them. Furthermore, a 125 lb dog would never have been allowed into a pit bull fighting match, because a 125 lb dog is not a pit bull.
quote: Not true. An unstable pit (or any unstable dog) is one who will suddenly attack, and even so, there are usually signs that it's coming. IP: Logged |
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ignergehl Member Posts: 128 |
posted 10-24-2003 04:59 PM
y,knowhat? I have owned several pits and never encountered this problem.Also, my dog was "rolled" at two years of age,twice,against an older and more experienced dog,who was solidly whipped both times.also, it IS true that any dog that is improperly trained will seek to 'climb the social ladder' and is more likely to bite.My dog needed to do what he was bred for,to fight, or to hunt, or herd or anything but be a lazy house pet.I think I am going to bow out of the pitbull site from now on as I am clearly in a fools chatroom.now how are you going to cut apart my words this time?nobodys impressed... IP: Logged |
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goob Member Posts: 353 |
posted 10-24-2003 07:16 PM
Your dog's having been rolled twice means nothing as to whether or not he was game. First, a roll is only used to test a young dog's desire and ability to fight, and any knowledgeable dogman would stop a roll between an inexperienced fighter and a young dog before gameness ever even came into play. Second, the fact that you dog "solidly whipped" the older dog both times means NOTHING as to whether or not he was in fact game. Gameness is not about fighting ability, it's about the dog not quitting, even when they are in pain, and/or completely exhausted both mentally and physically. As if that's not enough, unless your dog was rolled into another 125 lb proven game "pit bull" with ability, his "whooping" that dog means very little even as to his fighting ability. If YOU knew anything about the breed, you would know those things. IP: Logged |
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Pit_lover_in_Louisiana Member Posts: 17 |
posted 10-25-2003 11:09 AM
Ya know as I have gotten in to this site I have seen the extremely intelligent replies and the extremely ignorant. I have to say I dont care if a dog was a fighter or not it CAN be rehabilitated if the right person or people know how to do it. I also know genetics can be a very important role in a dogs personality. I stearnly believe that if you raise the dog correctly and socialize it with other dogs and humans alike then there shouldnt be any problems with the dog attacking or snapping or biting for that matter. It makes me sad that someone put down a pitt just for snapping at someone did your best friend do something to aggravate the dog? I know someone is going to say if the pitt acted aggressively then he should have been put down but I dont believe in that situation it was the right thing to do. I had a pitt that was fought as a young dog guess what with proper training and socializing he was never aggressive towards any human or any other animal. If you train them right and know how to socialize them correctly then you will have very few problems. This particular dog that was a fighter before I got him was never around a family with children or around any other animals unless he was fighting another dog. Through proper training and socializing he became my 2 year old stepsons best friend and this so called fighting dog also raised 3 kittens I had when they were 8 weeks. I just cant see that you feel you had to put down this dog because you dont think you could have helped it. Im sorry to say but it seems like you really dont have a clue how to socialize and train them properly for a family setting. IP: Logged |
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goob Member Posts: 353 |
posted 10-25-2003 12:18 PM
Pit_Lover, this dog's allegedly having been used for fighting means absolutely nothing about its temperament. Most dogs that are used for "sanctioned" fighting (the carefully planned kind with "proven" dogs, not the kind where two punks meet up on the street with their dogs and decide to see whos is toughest) are EXTREMELY friendly towards people, as any pit bull should be, but it's especially important in fighting dogs because of the amount of handling they go through before, during, and after a fight. Pit bulls are often dog aggressive, fighting dog or not. And actually, there are numerous proven fighting dogs that can be loose with dogs of the opposite sex, pups, even sometimes subordinate dogs of the same sex, and are completely unaggressive as long as they are not challenged. While you've done a great job in raising your dog, realize that his genetics played a far more important role in his good temperament than anything else, and be grateful that he IS a dog of sound temperament. It all comes down to genetics, and the hand a dog is dealt is what they're stuck with. You can socialize and train all you want, but if your dog is predisposed to dog or human aggression due to something in their genetics (ie: often dogs from gamebred lines are more likely to be dog aggressive), there's not much you can do except deal with it and manage it as best as you can. In this person's case, with a 125 lb human aggressive dog, there is NO room for error, a dog like this could be likened to the two Presas involved in the SF attack, those owners lost control of their dog (whether purposefully or not is a null point right now), and the results were tragic. Pit bulls are NOT supposed to be human aggressive, and for one to be often means that they are of unstable temperament by nature, not environment. How else could you end up with dogs who have been beaten and starved, or chopped up with knives, or set on fire, who are still so forgiving and willing to love people, then have dogs who have had "everything" going for them and have them end up human aggressive. These dogs are anomalies, and with so many sound pit bulls dying every day for want of good homes, it's hard to justify keeping around unsound ones that could very well end up contributing to the downfall of the breed. IP: Logged |
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RottyMommy Moderator Posts: 449 |
posted 10-25-2003 03:25 PM
Im sorry but I dont aggree with the last post. First off in the beginning she said that the dog snarled at her kids friend so she immediately went and had it put down. Then later she says that she did everything in her power that she could. That kid could have grabbed that dogs tail, tugged at is ears. We dont know and for that reason that dog shouldnt have been put down. I have a 3 year old rottweielr. That used to resource guard really bad. She bit us over 10 times but only once ever broke skin. By what you are saying she should have been put down. I agree that a dog with issues should definitely be fixed but I dont think they should be put down unless they are a danger to society. We dont know if that dog was but it sure sounded like it wasnt. It sounds like the dog got sick of some bs going on and let people know it and for that it was put down. It sounded to me like this dog could have been worked with. It has nothing to do with the amount of dogs put down or even the number of pit bulls put down everyday. Because if something would be done to make people realize that pets are not disposable then there would be far less animals in shelters. And far less being put down everyday. There needs to be tougher rules on breeding, more indepth screening done for rescues including shelters, every shelter and rescue needs to have dogs fixed before they are adopted out. Bottom line if they made it harder for bybs to sell dogs there would be far less bybs out there and far less unwanted animals in this world. IP: Logged |
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goob Member Posts: 353 |
posted 10-26-2003 09:22 AM
quote: Yes, but that wasn't the only incident of aggression. The dog was also snapping at friends. Are we to assume the friend was harassing the dog as well? There's a differece between this situation and that of you/your rotty. The difference being that you KNEW what your dog's problem was, you were willing to risk being bitten to work through it and I'm guessing that you felt that you could keep others safe from her. From with the owner of this dog posted, the dog didn't have a specific "issue" like yours did, so therefore it would be much harder to isolate the problem and keep an "accident" from occuring.
quote: You're right. But with things the way they are, the ENTIRE breed is banned in some areas, mostly due to "accidents" involving dogs like that owned by ignerghel. This is a dog who's temperament was completely out of character for his breed, and he was huge, capable of doing horrible damage should he decide to let people know he was sick of their bothering him. An aggressive dog of that size and ability IS a danger to society, no matter how you slice it. Sure, you could keep that dog, let him live a miserable existance locked away from people for the rest of his life, and HOPE for the sake of all involved that there will never be an "accident", but is that really fair to anyone? There's also a huge amount of liability involved in keeping a dog like that, and though I'm sure that's the last thing some people worry about, others do have concerns over losing their house, or even doing jailtime should their dog (who they KNEW was aggressive) hurt someone. I'm fully aware of the situation shelter animals face today, and how it needs to be stopped. Unfortunately, that's not going to happen anytime soon, so until it does, responsible breeders, rescuers, and owners need to do everything they can to minimize the damage caused by aggressive dogs, and to get as many SOUND dogs as possible into good homes. We do need to do something to slow the influx of more animals into the system, but we also need to deal responsibly with those that are already here. I'm not about to draw conclusions on this person's decision, because I wasn't there, I didn't see the dog, and I didn't have to live with the dog. That said, I'm also not about to condemn them for making the decision that they did, as if they weren't able to handle the dog's issues, it was the best thing they could have done for everyone. IP: Logged |
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True_Pits Member Posts: 44 |
posted 10-26-2003 09:07 PM
Goob I you seem to be very knowledgable. Probably one of the most on this board. I would have to agrre with just baout everything Goob said. And as far as ignergehl dog goes I think they made the right decision, but on top of that they bred this dog!! First off a 125lbs is not a PURE pit why were they breeding this dog in the first place? Often the dogs i see of this size are people aggressive. Let's see some of these dogs are even fasly registered as pure PIT BULLS, and if you talk to the breeders they some openly admit their dogs being bandogs or dogs mixed with Cane Corso, Mastiff, Bullmastiff and also some American Bulldogs. And by the way its PIT BULL not PITT. Its funny how people claiming to know the breed cannot even spell the name right. Sad the uneducated and ignorant "breeders" in this world. ------------------ IP: Logged |
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ignergehl Member Posts: 128 |
posted 10-28-2003 11:15 AM
I explained why this dog was so large, it was a an anomaly, the other dogs did not turn out so large.Secondly, I did not think I would have to go so in depth into what actually happened, so I did not thouroughly explain what occured. My dog snapped at my frien both time times when she reached out to pet him.He was entirely unprovoked.By the time the incident when he snarled at the children had occurred,there had beed several isilated incidents like this.I was standing right there and the children werent even interacting with the dog,they were talking to my son over the fence and he was just snarling. He had never been physically ill a day in his life,either.As I said before, this dog had been trained and socialized in exactly the same manner as yhe 15 or so pits I have raised in the past withno incident.It was the moment that I saw him growling at those kids that I made my decicion.It was heartbreaking.Rottymomma says she has a rott that has bitten them any number of times,I consider this an extremely dangerous animal that does not need to be around children.A dog really shouldnt bite even if it hasnt been highly trained,what will she do when that dog,having tested the waters,goes ahead and seriously injures or kills someone,especially a child?Dogs of this kind give the entire breed a bad name. In the past I have bred,raised and schooled and fought any number of pit bulls and after rolling my dog against an experienced pit dogs with no turns and with having to break him off the other dog,screaming in displeasure,I felt he could have been considered a 'game dog'.I no longer am involved in dogfighting as I now live in the city and have a child and do not want to go to prison,also,I feel there are better uses for pitbulls,they make spectacular hog-hunting dogs,they are unmatched as weight-pulling dogs,and I like my bulldogs unscarred and friendly to my other pets... IP: Logged |
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benny boy Member Posts: 95 |
posted 10-28-2003 01:45 PM
hey ignergehl, i was wondering if you could fill me in on hog hunting. i've heard it mentioned quite a bit, and i've hunted hogs up around austin a few times but never with dogs, and i was just wanting to know a little more about it. like what role the dogs play and if they can get hurt, as i know how vicious hogs are. if you know of any websites with good info feel free to list them so i can check it out. IP: Logged |
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the_maine_pitbull Member Posts: 251 |
posted 10-28-2003 02:02 PM
The point is.. RottyMomma's dog is NOT aggressive any longer, it has been rehabilitated. It seems like your dog had issues that could have been resolved in my opinion. It was maybe a protection issue with the kids where they were on opposite sides of fences. I have seen quite a few dogs be territorial, Pit Bull or any other breed. Also, some dogs just do not like certain people. They do not trust them or feel right about them. Did you try having your friend giving the dog treats and making a slower, more gentle approach with gaining the dogs trust? --------------------------------------------- ANY dog will attack- I do not think you have any right to say that so matter-of-factly because of all the dogs I have seen/met, none of them have turned on a single person for being "spoiled". My dogs have always been completely rotten-- I haven't had any issues with them except for one who was suddenly getting very aggressive and protective, however, she had a brain tumor which caused that. Dogs can be rehabilitated- do not underestimate that. It is like saying people with mental health issues that hurt someone are dangerous and all should be locked away. That is all that it is. These dogs having problems, whether it be training or emotional or whatever. It is unfair to judge a dog by what it does without understanding what it done and thinking of all possible reasons as to why it done it, get a health examination and do all that you can with out trying to put it down. Too many people are lazy and try to take the easiest way out by putting the dog down or giving it away instead of working hard to get the problem worked out. Then they get a new one and hope it doesn't happen again. What is that solving? IP: Logged |
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goob Member Posts: 353 |
posted 10-28-2003 04:46 PM
quote: The dogs are sent in, grab the hog and hold it until it can be dispatched by the hunter. It's important in hog hunting that the dogs don't cur out, because if the do, the hunter will be left to defend themselves against a very angry hog. There are also some catch dog competitions now, with titles, etc for dogs, but I don't know anything else about them except that the hogs are penned, not out running like in an actual hunt.
quote: Yes. Especially in the actual hog hunting (as compared to the catchdog comps). Dogs that prefer certain holds are supposedly more likely to take a beating, simply because of the proximity to the hog's tusks, but there is a risk no matter what area the dog aims for. It's not uncommon in some places for a dog to be sliced open during a catch, sewn back together, and catching again soon after. There is protective armor that some people use on the dogs, but even that's not 100% sureproof to keep the dog from getting hurt. I've never seen an actual hunt of catchdog competition, but know a few people who either have dogs they use, or have been on hunts where dogs were used, so all this is just what I've been told, not personal experience. IP: Logged |
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ignergehl Member Posts: 128 |
posted 10-30-2003 02:09 PM
In answer as to wether I could have had my friend offer the dog treats,my friend was present when the dog was born and he frequently went to the park with her and she also is my pet-sitter when I am out.The aggressive incidents involving her were a shock,as were the incidents involving the kids as he was parially raised and trained by my young son.Who knows,maybe he did have a brain tumor,if that were the case he would have had had to be put down anyway... IP: Logged |
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neek Member Posts: 196 |
posted 10-30-2003 03:40 PM
I don't know why people are still arguing over this dog!! He was put down for a reason. It may have been for the best or it may not have. All I know is that NOBODY wants the death of a child or person on their consciense, which may have happened had the dog in question stayed alive. A dog like that is very unpredictable and unless submitted to a life on the end of a chain and securely muzzled, the poor thing is probably better off. As I've said before, it comes down to bad and irresponsible breeding and for a dog to turn like that on anything is not canine characteristic!! IP: Logged |
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neek Member Posts: 196 |
posted 10-30-2003 05:53 PM
The dog didn't have Rabies did it?? I don't know much about rabies except that it attacks the central nervous system of an animal. We don't have it in Australia but that movie Cujo was enough to scare the s*** out of me!! IP: Logged |
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ignergehl Member Posts: 128 |
posted 10-30-2003 06:49 PM
That movie rocked,but the book was better,I think the kid didnt make it...My dog was current on his vaccs by the way! IP: Logged |
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