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Posted by Topic subject:   Our Pitt Killed Our other DOG
gsturbo444
New Member

Posts: 3
From:kennewick, Wa USA
Registered: Oct 2003

posted 10-01-2003 12:08 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for gsturbo444     Edit/Delete Message
I need some help. I have two roomates who had three dogs. Two muts and a pitt who is less than a year old. Yesterday I got the call that one of the muts was dead. Our pit had killed him. Heres the background. Turbo (the mut that was killed) was a male. He had somewhat of a dominate disposition especially when it came to food and being touched by the other dogs. Our other mut is a girl and got along with both dogs great. She played with both of them, but mainly the pit. Her and the pit are best buds. The pit is also male. The two males would get in fights, mainly started by the mut. The pit being bigger and definding himself would bite him around the neck and take him to the ground. This has been happenig a lot more frequently. Finally it got out of hand. The animal control was called (we were all at work) and stated that both dogs (pit and girl mut) had to be pulled off the other dog, however there was no blood and thought maybe it was a broken neck. Now...we cant do anything about what happend but the question is what to do with the pitt? he is full blood and has never shown aggression towords anyone or anything other then the mut who usually started it. He is the biggest sweetest baby. I dont know much about the breed, but am a little worried. He knows he did somethign wrong..he has not come out of the dog house for more than a minute at a time and when he does he just looks at you with a confused, sad look. I would like to think that it was an accident..something that wasnt ment to happen..but if the pit was out to kill then thats a differnet story. Its a very scary breed. All you pit lovers and educators please give me some advice to pass on. We dont one anyone one or a another animal to get hurt again.

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goob
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Posts: 353
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Registered: Mar 2003

posted 10-01-2003 01:09 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for goob     Edit/Delete Message
Sounds like the mutt probably started things, then the pit bull finished them. Unfortunately, this is not uncommon for people with multiple APBTs or APBTs and other dogs. Most pit bulls will fight if challenged, and most have the ability to do serious damage when they do fight. This doesn't mean that he will be aggressive towards people, nor to all other dogs he meets on sight. It DOES mean that you should NOT let him unattended with any other dogs. Make sure his enclosure is sturdy, and find a way to seperate him from your other dog when you're not there to watch them. Dog aggression is common in the APBT breed, and is not something that I would have my dog PTS for, but you are going to have to change the way you handle things to prevent him from getting into another fight.

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Pit_lover_in_Louisiana
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Posts: 17
From:Morgan City, Louisiana, USA
Registered: Sep 2003

posted 10-01-2003 01:10 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for Pit_lover_in_Louisiana     Edit/Delete Message
First of all let me start off saying sorry to hear about what happened. Now what I am going to say is only MY opinion. The way I see it is the other dog not the pitt was the aggressor, so why did you guys never keep them seperated if he only got along with the female dog? Pitts usually wont attack other dogs or humans unless they are attacked first. All I can tell you is watch your pitt and how it will now react with your female more then likely everything will be ok. How old were the two males? Seriously I think if you watched those two fight so many times you should have seperated them when you were not watching them and even when you were they should not have come in close contact with each other if the "mutt" was so aggressive and dominate. Again sorry to hear about what happened but remember to keep a close eye on the other two to make sure something like this wont happen again.

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gsturbo444
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Posts: 3
From:kennewick, Wa USA
Registered: Oct 2003

posted 10-01-2003 01:23 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for gsturbo444     Edit/Delete Message
It is a very sad situation. The mutt was about two years old and our pit is just under a year. Many have asked why they werent separated and I dont have a good answer to that. All I can say is that they really arnt "my" dogs. All three belonged to my roomates. Ultimately I dont have a say in what happens. They believed that the mutt was food aggressive (i have witnessed this myself) and that if they had enought food and water things would be okay. When we got home yesterday there was still food and water in the bowls so we know it was not because of lack of food. It is sooo strange to me. Two nights before all three dogs were on my bed and the mutt who was killed was licking our pit on the ear and being affectionate towords him. It amazes me how we can go from that...to this. The mutt was a very good dog, very cuddly, never got in trouble, just wansnt ment to be around dogs. The sad part is my roomate even mentioned that less than a week ago. I had woken up to them fighting and my roomates were gone. I poured water on them to get them to stop (only thing i could think of at the time, i was scared to death). I told my roomates about what happend. One even mentioned jokingly that we were going to come home one day and find turbo (the mutt) dead. I guess none of us really believed it would get to that point. However, i do see your point about not leaving him unattended with the other dog or any dog for that matter. I feel better knowing that it is not an instant reason for the pitt to be put down. I am very upset about what happend to turbo(mutt) but I would be just as upset if the pit got put down. As stated before he is the sweetest dog in the world, just walks around, and all he wants is attention. Good attention. I would hate to lose not only one dog, but two.

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luvindogsmom
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Registered: Oct 2003

posted 10-01-2003 01:30 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for luvindogsmom     Edit/Delete Message
I know i am new here, But out of curiousity were the males neutered? is the female spayed?
If not that could be part of the problems also.

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Pit_Bull_Girly
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Posts: 8
From:CT
Registered: Sep 2003

posted 10-01-2003 01:49 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for Pit_Bull_Girly     Edit/Delete Message
I'm very sorry. Please read through this for additional pit bull education material:
General pit bull info: http://www.pbrc.net/breedinfo.html http://www.pitbullsontheweb.com/petbull/breedinfo.html
and
Avoiding/preventing fights: http://www.pbrc.net/fightinfo.html http://www.pbrc.net/breakfight.html

PBG

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gsturbo444
New Member

Posts: 3
From:kennewick, Wa USA
Registered: Oct 2003

posted 10-01-2003 01:57 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for gsturbo444     Edit/Delete Message
the girl is spayed...both males were not neutered. And I agree...this could have been part of the problem. Thanks for the links, im going to take some time to check them out.

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honeybear
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Posts: 373
From:
Registered: May 2003

posted 10-01-2003 03:54 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for honeybear     Edit/Delete Message
I am so sorry to hear what happened. I dont know anything about pits but I do know that male dogs in general are much more aggresive if they are not neutered and then when you put two together can create big problems. I hope you get some good advice here.
Honeybear

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desertAPBT
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Posts: 46
From:
Registered: Sep 2003

posted 10-01-2003 04:36 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for desertAPBT     Edit/Delete Message
Give the dog to a GOOD pit bull rescue. (PLEASE avoid the PITT bull rescue people)

I would like to think that it was an accident..something that wasnt ment to happen..but if the pit was out to kill then thats a differnet story

NEWS FLASH pit bulls are dog agressive and yes they mean to kill the other dog! This incident most likely "turned him on" or "flipped his switch" for fighting to the on position.

NEVER TRUST A BULLDOG NOT TO FIGHT. Rule number one.

Rule two. Do NOT condemn him for fighting another dog THAT IS HIS NATURE AND THAT OF THE BREED.

Rule three: If you did not already know rules one and two you should not be raising a APBT. Give him to a rescue that understands the breed BEFORE you contribute to BSL. DO NOT dump him at a shelter. 9 out of 10 APBTs are put down.

Remember this is YOUR/YOUR Roomates FAULT. Not his. Education is the key. Please do not contribute to the destruction of our breed by being uneducated.

Carol

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jeminn
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Posts: 166
From:Colorado, USA
Registered: Jul 2003

posted 10-01-2003 06:12 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for jeminn     Edit/Delete Message
Seems your roomies and yourself did not understand the "pack drive" situation you were in living in a house with 3 dogs. What happened in your situation was not because of the pitbull, but because of the nature of "pack drive" behavior among animals, especially when there are more than two dogs involved. Pack behavior, rank and drive need to be taken very seriously with any and all breeds of dogs living together. Read up on this if you plan to have more than two dogs, no matter what the breed, in the future, to understand why it often doesn't work out, and what you must do to prevent this from happening again. It is a very unfortunate outcome, and I am sorry, but if you read up on pack drive you might understand a little more clearly what happened, and why it happened, and how to not put your dogs in this situation in the future. Here is an excellent link http://www.leerburg.com/articles.htm

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GoodboysBaddogs
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Posts: 217
From:Los Angeles, Ca.
Registered: Aug 2003

posted 10-01-2003 10:17 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for GoodboysBaddogs     Edit/Delete Message
Woo-Wee!!!--"desertAPBT"--

! ! ! W E L L S A I D ! ! !

Although, i trust "my" American Bulldog.
I mean, he got in a situation where another Am-Bull attacked and bit him numerous times on his neck and ear.
At the time my pup was only 11 months old, the other dog was full grown.
Even though this dog was "locked-on" to my dogs ear or neck trying to rip it right off like a shark, my dog still had this playing smile on his face, thinking that it was still a game (not knowing).
Only untill all the commotion from the people trying to stop the other untamed/badly socialized dog, did my dog understand that this dog was actually trying to hurt him.
Luckly by that time, i was able to grab hold of the situation. It's kind of a long story. TRUST ME, it wasn't my dog, nor my fault!!!
What i'm basically trying to say is NOT ALL Bulldogs are untrustworthy when it comes to fighting situations.
Well, maybe a small percentage.

But...
!!!IT ALL DEPENDS ON HOW YOU RAISE THE DOG!!!
I'm sure you all are tierd of hearing this statement, but it's true.
And i'm talking about aggression towards anything.
If you raise & teach him/her well, it will be WELL understood!
Who/When/Where/Why/& How... right?!?

Anyhow, YES, a Bulldog WON'T backdown from something that he knows he can do well!!!
So BE RESPONSIBLE OWNERS & raise your dogs well, as best you can.
Get educated, be knowing, understand, LEARN.
!!!!!THIS IS A LIFE, AND NOT PROPERTY!!!!!

Well said, DesertAPBT.

------------------
...it's the understanding of what's wrong, when you only know how to do right...

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desertAPBT
Member

Posts: 46
From:
Registered: Sep 2003

posted 10-01-2003 11:38 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for desertAPBT     Edit/Delete Message
But...
!!!IT ALL DEPENDS ON HOW YOU RAISE THE DOG!!!
I'm sure you all are tierd of hearing this statement, but it's true.
And i'm talking about aggression towards anything.
If you raise & teach him/her well, it will be WELL understood!
Who/When/Where/Why/& How... right?!?

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Not really. See some bulldogs no matter how much you try to turn them into a lab or poodle will still turn on as they mature. It can literally be instant with some dogs. See little mufasa could be playing with little Fi Fi for 2 years with no problems then one day they go to play and Mufasa may take little fi fi down. Some APBTs will be dog aggro no matter what you do. It is in them it is suppose to be in them. It is not something to be feared or looked down upon. That is what they are American Pit Bull Terriers and they are proud!

The best bet is always assume your dog will fight! That way you cant really find yourself with your finger up your butt saying "well he never".

I just wish people would do research and not want a lab but get a pit and think it can be a lab. You know what I mean?
Samantha

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GoodboysBaddogs
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Posts: 217
From:Los Angeles, Ca.
Registered: Aug 2003

posted 10-02-2003 07:00 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for GoodboysBaddogs     Edit/Delete Message
desertAPBT,

See some bulldogs no matter how much you try to turn them into a lab or poodle will still turn on as they mature. It can literally be instant with some dogs. See little mufasa could be playing with little Fi Fi for 2 years with no problems then one day they go to play and Mufasa may take little fi fi down. Some APBTs will be dog aggro no matter what you do.

=============================================

your right, SOME dogs. Those "some" dogs (no breed in particular) are those that lack the understanding of Who/What/When/Where/Why/& How... And that is even more important in getting that understanding across to Pitties, AB's, Staff's, & all breeds that have bad reputations w/ the masses. Those that are REALLY capable of doing serious harm.

I BELIEVE in what i mentioned (what you highlighted from my last post). I currently have 2 dogs. An American Bulldog & a Chinese Shar Pei. Both are now full grown, are males, and still "intacked" (w/ sacks). They play-fight every day, at least 3-5 times lasting untill they both get tierd or of- coarse we stop them. And yes, it can get rough. BUT, they know their limits. When 1 get's even slightly hurt the other knows and stops, even tries to give comfort. In the end they know that their bro's, and that taking it too far will result in somthing very bad, either from themselves, but even more-ME! This is something they MUST understand. Otherwise yes, one day "Mufassa will turn on Fi Fi".
IT ALL DEPENDS ON HOW YOU RAISE YOUR DOG
BOTH sides must understand. You & Your Dog.

As to your last sentence, i understand.

------------------
...it's the understanding of what's wrong, when you only know how to do right...

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desertAPBT
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Posts: 46
From:
Registered: Sep 2003

posted 10-03-2003 07:25 AM     Click Here to See the Profile for desertAPBT     Edit/Delete Message
IT ALL DEPENDS ON HOW YOU RAISE YOUR DOG
BOTH sides must understand. You & Your Dog.

You say *some dogs* a lot. I go with 99% of pits will fight (my firm opinion). It is like saying some thoughbreds (sp) like to run. Most do. To ignore breeding is irresponsible. You can not take that throughbred (sp) and use him to pull a plow or expect a good cutting horse from him. (although *some* could I suppose) Raising a throughbred like a Draft horse does not make him a draft horse. Just like raising a pit like a lab does not make him a lab. THEY ARE TWO differt things.

Until all APBT owners understand this BSL will have no problem getting a firm foothold in each and every state.

When you say "some dogs" wont fight how do you find it if a certin bull dog is one of those *some dogs*? Not trial and error I hope.

NEVER EVER TRUST A(ny) BULL DOG NOT TO FIGHT

Carol

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desertAPBT
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Posts: 46
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Registered: Sep 2003

posted 10-03-2003 09:19 AM     Click Here to See the Profile for desertAPBT     Edit/Delete Message
I want to add....

ABs and Shar-peis are NOT APBTs. Plain and simple! We had an AB that we gave back to the breeder becuase they do not have the drive the APBTs have and are too human agressive for me. See when APBTs get heated (yes even in play) it can and almost always ends in a fight. My pittie knows her place with the family but she also has the mentality they are suppose to have. the

Never back down, confident, can conquer anything in the world the world is mine attitude.

If you dont want this get a different breed! Dont ruin ours. ABs are great for what people want. Big pitbull looking dogs that it is ok if they bite. Hey no problem you want a biting AB get an AB or Dogo or Presa, they look close you can still look tough and its "ok' by their owners if they bite.

People who want non-animal aggro animals should not get into the APBTs so many are destoyed in shelters because noone listens to the facts only the dreams of if you raise them right.

Samantha

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the_maine_pitbull
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Posts: 251
From:Allagash, Maine USA
Registered: Oct 2003

posted 10-03-2003 11:12 AM     Click Here to See the Profile for the_maine_pitbull     Edit/Delete Message
Never back down, confident, can conquer anything in the world the world is mine attitude.
---------------------------------------------

Isn't this why we love the breed?? lol.. Seriously, I have to agree with this. APBT and most members of the Bully breed are strong minded and determined dogs that if provoked WILL fight. Some are trained well enough that they will stop, but it is not too often. I will also say that most Bully breed dogs will not start fights, but will also not back down.. You won't see many Pit's running with their tail between their legs because someone tried to dominate them..
---------------------------------------------

But...
!!!IT ALL DEPENDS ON HOW YOU RAISE THE DOG!!!
---------------------------------------------
However, I feel this is a very true statement as well. You can get a Pit and not train it a thing and it will start fights.. you need to educate your dog that it is wrong to start things. And also, this is a very true statement when it comes to attacking animals they see as "prey" "game" or "bait" because once aupon a time small animals were used for this with the breed. I never owned a Pitty that wanted to fight and was hate driven.. however, if attacked, it was not going to just stand there and let this dog hurt them. I trust my pit's but will never leave them alone in a room with another dog unsupervised because you never do know. Playing could just get rough and escalate to fighting and it can turn into something more than you need or expect. Can't blame anyone but yourself if it does because you should be there supervising and recognize when the dog(s) are getting a little more serious and putting attitude into play. I strongly agree with desert to never trust a pit not to fight, however I would word it different. It seems like they would go out looking for fights, but that is not at all what she means. Desert simply means.. never trust a pitbull to not fight when provoked. Some do go looking fo r fights, but properly trained pits will not look for it, but also will not back down from it.. It is in their blood, can't change years and years of genetics, all you can do is try your best to control it and be responsible about it.
Angie

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the_maine_pitbull
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Posts: 251
From:Allagash, Maine USA
Registered: Oct 2003

posted 10-03-2003 12:08 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for the_maine_pitbull     Edit/Delete Message
Okay.. since my last post got a bit off topic.. I will write a new one and express my thoughts on the whole situation that the original post was based on. First off, it is completely the fault of whomever owns these dogs.. and as a roomate you should have been able to express this.. however, it is too late for that. So, the only thing that I can give for advice is that you find this dog a great rescue in your area to take him. The dogs left shouldn't be left unsubervised or unattended, separate them.. or you will have another situation on your hands. You are scared of the dog and apparently the owner has no knowledge of the breed either if he/she allowed this to happen knowing it was getting heated especially. All I can say for now is keep the dogs you have now separated and find a good rescue, not a shelter.
Angie

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GoodboysBaddogs
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Posts: 217
From:Los Angeles, Ca.
Registered: Aug 2003

posted 10-03-2003 12:59 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for GoodboysBaddogs     Edit/Delete Message
"desertAPBT",

First-off, i got the "some" dogs from you, YOU expressed yourself that way. LOOK what i highlighted from your post.

Anyhow, NEVERMIND, i understand what you've been screaming about, but i don't think your trying to see mine, so whatevers!

I wonder who has more pride You or your Dog?!?!

JUST LOVE YOUR DOG(S), & i'll love you...

Thanks Maine, but i knew what she was saying. Thanks though.

------------------
...it's the understanding of what's wrong, when you only know how to do right...

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the_maine_pitbull
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Posts: 251
From:Allagash, Maine USA
Registered: Oct 2003

posted 10-03-2003 03:55 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for the_maine_pitbull     Edit/Delete Message
Goodboy-- BREATHE!!! Count backwards from ten and it will be okay.. lol. Alright.. This message is dedicted to you baby!! lol. Can I have your personal email address to speak with you about an off topic off list issue.. I got a friend on another list in your area.. needs some advice.. email me with your email addy or something.. Here is my email addy..

APBT_Forever@hotmail.com This is the new one which I use more often than the other.. Hope to hear from you..

Angie

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Paul_1983
Member

Posts: 28
From:Minot, ND
Registered: Oct 2003

posted 10-04-2003 12:10 AM     Click Here to See the Profile for Paul_1983     Edit/Delete Message
**** ATTN Paul: Please refrain from posting such comments to this board. If you have nothing decent, educational or helpful to add to the conversation please abstain from posting. Further comments as such will be deleted.

Moderator

[This message has been edited by Jas (edited 10-06-2003).]

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LadyV
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Posts: 14
From:
Registered: Sep 2003

posted 10-05-2003 08:55 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for LadyV     Edit/Delete Message
First off, I'm sorry and I don't mean to be harsh but here goes.
It bothers me that all you have to refer to this poor dead dog is "Mutt" Why did you have dogs together without doing any research on the breed or mixes of breeds. Why did you not do something the first time you saw a problem between the dogs!? Now it is the dog that has the trouble when it was actually, as usual, the people that own the dogs!!! You cannot just throw dogs together out in the a yard!!!!! I'm sorry...but the fault lies completely with you owners....you have a poor dog dead (you didn't shoe any remorse about this dogs death or how it died that I could see) and another one now labeled as a bad dog....something we Pit lovers are always trying to overcome by being responsible owners!! The whole thing upsets me and saddens me for the poor dead dog and the now "labeled bad" Pit!!

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the_maine_pitbull
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Posts: 251
From:Allagash, Maine USA
Registered: Oct 2003

posted 10-06-2003 08:02 AM     Click Here to See the Profile for the_maine_pitbull     Edit/Delete Message
LadyV-- I agree and it upsets me a lot as well. However, there is nothign anyone can do now that the poor boy is gone.. BUT give advice for what can be done NOW. Paul- you are a sick individual and if you want to flap your gums like that do it else where.. For any one who never understood his "ever heard of a 30/6" statement, a 30/6, 300630-06, Odd 6, 30 Odd 6 or however people wish to write it out.. it is a rifle. He is referring to shooting the Pit Bull. Paul-- it is people that are sick in the head like yourself that should not be allowed to own pets period. The close minded fools who do not have any compassion and think every problem has a simple solution. It just proves your cowardism of not wanting to correct things and work at making them better, instead you would be the one to back down, shoot your dog, get another and hope it doesn't do the same thing. What are you helping or fixing then?? Really offended me!! Not too cool.. the people on this list love their dogs and I do not think your comment helped this person who is upset about the loss of a loved pet that they lived with.. gsturbo-- I understand it was your roomies dogs, but you as a roomate should have been able to give them advice about separating them. Doesn't seem like you have much experience with dogs in general- hope you have learned that you cannot just collect dogs and put them together and expect all to be joyful 24-7.. I hope that you have gotten enough info to pass on to your roomates and give them advice on this and persuade them to give the dog up to a reputable, responsible rescue.
Angie

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LadyV
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posted 10-06-2003 08:28 AM     Click Here to See the Profile for LadyV     Edit/Delete Message
"ever heard of a 30/6?"

I can't beleive this!!!! What are you even doing on a dog lovers baord!?

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benny boy
Member

Posts: 95
From:lewisville, texas, united states
Registered: Oct 2003

posted 10-06-2003 03:26 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for benny boy     Edit/Delete Message
i know paul 1983, what kind of backwoods, inbred, hillbillie are you!!!! ever herd of a family tree that forks

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Jas

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Posts: 262
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Registered: May 2003

posted 10-06-2003 03:53 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for Jas     Edit/Delete Message
- Lets just ignore those Trolling with nothing better to do than cause trouble. Those type of posts will be deleted.

Thanks,
Moderator

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