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Posted by Topic subject:   Need some help
Gugo7
New Member

Posts: 2
From:Gugo7@msn.com
Registered: Aug 2003

posted 08-22-2003 12:20 AM     Click Here to See the Profile for Gugo7   Click Here to Email Gugo7     Edit/Delete Message
Hey everyone Im new to this forum want to say hi to everyone. Im glad I finally found a pitbull forum website. I have a rednose pit as you can tell from my signatuer, he is about 17months old. I got him when he was about 6 months old, well when I first got him he would never bark or anything not the slightest sing of aggresiveness. When he was about 12months old i had him nuruerd and a month after geting him nuturned he started barking alot more often. Once he hears the doorbell ring he comes running barking, seems like hes pretty protective right? Well one time I was going for a walk with my Pit and these 3 guys came outa the corner beat me up and took my money and everything and I was expecting my dog to help do something but he didnt do anything. Ive thought about taking him to k9 training but thats really expensive I dont think i can afford it. What do you guys think about my problem please help me out.

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Red nose Pit, Brown coat white chest, white paws, white tail tip. Yes i love my dog

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Jas

Moderator

Posts: 163
From:
Registered: May 2003

posted 08-22-2003 11:16 AM     Click Here to See the Profile for Jas     Edit/Delete Message
I am sorry you were attacked, understandably it leaves you feeling nervous. Your dog is also young and young dogs are not always secure - natural protection when a dog senses a threatening situation may come with age.

Overall it really isn't right to expect our canine friends to protect us. If one wants protection they should learn self defense. In this day and age dogs are not suitable for protecting humans against other humans. If somebody (or more than one person) is determined to rob or injure you, it would be wrong to think a lone dog is going to be able to fend them off - especially when there is a large chance the dog could be injured in the process (via weapon - gun, knife etc), things people carry and use to harm others these days WILL be used to harm our dog too. Its not worth it!

Take for instance you have a family pet you want to train to attack- this family dog now needs to be reprogrammed to learn - training involves strong & correctional methods, getting the dog to be leery of anyone except you. After risking putting a dog through all this can you be sure the temperament is going to be stable enough to succeed in protecting (attacking) offenders - and not any young children or friends who might be around your dog. Instead you will have to lock away your once family dog when people are visiting and there will be fewer areas you are able to take your dog and enjoy him.

I'd look up lawsuits involving attack dogs, and read any statistics on protection/attack dogs turning on the wrong person.

Solutions? - carry pepper spray & learn self defense! Crime is a human problem and humans need to find reasonable ways to prevent this without involving our furry friends.

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goob
Member

Posts: 186
From:
Registered: Mar 2003

posted 08-22-2003 02:03 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for goob     Edit/Delete Message
Your dog is still a baby, and him protecting you at this age could be likened to a child stepping up against a scary, armed attacker... not likely to happen with a normal child. Many dogs go through a fear stage around the 8 months-1 year mark, where they'll react defensively to things that normally wouldn't have brought up any reaction at all. It's just a part ot the maturation process.

It's also not common for dogs to bark at the doorbell, knocks at door, etc, to alert you to the presence of an intruder... doesn't mean that they'd be willing to deal with the intruder themselves, instead they're calling for you to deal with it. Our house sometimes sounds like a 50 dog kennel when someone knowcks at the door, but I'd guess that only 2 of the dogs would actually engage an intruder in an aggressive manner... one would invite them in for cakes and show them to the goods, and the other two would probably bark their heads off from a distance, but not have the nerve to actually do anything. Interestingly, the dog that would be most likely to engage usually only lets out one quiet bark when she hears something, then goes to check it out. The other barks at everything, and is just generally noisy, so I don't know what to think about her yapping her head off when people come.

It's also important to remember that barking, growling, hackling up, etc are defensive gestures meant to scarr away a threat so the dog doesn't actually have to engage in a fight with them... because they're AFRAID. It's like a person who bluffs, puffs up and talks big talk, trying to intimidate others, but will run when actually faced with a fight. The "I better scare this thing off before it hurts me" mentality. Very few of these people (and dogs) have the nerve to stick around when things get bad... they're all fluff.

Getting down to the specifics of pit bulls... they've been bred for centuries to be extremely submissive to people, and to NOT bite people under any circumstance. Strict culling made sure that dogs that bit people didn't live to make more dogs like that (there were a few exceptions to that rule, but not enough to really note). A "good" pit bull will remain stable and friendly (or at least neutral) to everyone until there is a real and direct threat to them and/or their people. Even then, some pit bulls are still so unwilling to bite a person that they won't bite even under those extreme circumstances. It sounds like you have a "good" pit bull. Trying to train against his natural temperament to gmake him something he's not meant (by nature) to be will most likely only serve to screw him up and make him into a liability for you and others. Most pit bulls aren't suited to this type of use, and it's unlikely that you've found one of the abnormal ones that are.

In addition, owning a protection trained dog isn't as easy as one would think. There's problems with insurance (already bad enough for pit bull owners, many places won't insure the breed), many places won't insure dogs that have been "trained to protect" or that have shown "protective tendencies". Homeowners associations, landlords, neighbors, etc will most likely not understand that while your dog is trained to protect you, it is still a stable, friendly dog in normal situations; and will not make life easy for you, your family, or your dog. In addition, many states/cities/towns also have ordinances in place to "protect" the public from "dangerous" dogs... some of these ordinances include dogs who have been protection trained under their definition of a "dangerous dog", and will require that you follow restrictions for ownership of such a dog... things like muzzles (whenever the dog is out in public), short leashes (some say under 6 ft, others say 4 ft or under), high fences and/or steel enclosures made to specific specifications set by the state... it's not a good life for a dog, and not something that I'd EVER knowingly put one of my dogs into. Then there's always the chance that your dog will bite someone, whether for a valid reason, or in a terrible mistake. The San Francisco Presa Canario attack set a precendent in that, had there been sufficient proof that the owners had knowledge that the dogs would bite (through either past incidents, or through having put the dogs through training for such activities), they most likely would have been in jail for murder. No... they didn't sic the dogs on the people, but they knowingly owned a dog that could cause serious/fatal injuries to a person, and failed to keep the dog from doing so. People aren't playing around anymore with this stuff, and dog owners are going to be held responsible for their dogs' actions... maybe not quite yet, but it's coming. At the very least, you could (and most likely will be) sued should your dog bite someone. You could lose your house, your life savings, your freedom... all just because of one little mistake.

You also need to put a lot of consideration into what Jas said... she brought up some very good points about the downfalls of using a dog for protection. For one, no dog will stand much of a chance against several determined attackers armed with guns (or even knives in many cases). It sounds like these people who robbed you were definitely determined to do so, as most street trouble causing types are pretty wary of pit bulls, rottweilers, etc because of their bad reputations. If they were willing to come attack you with your "scary" dog standing right there, what makes you so sure they would've been scared off by him barking, growling, or the like? I agree with Jas... there are many more effective methods for repelling would be attackers, that are probably cheaper and easier to get (as opposed to having to go through a lifetime of expensive training to have a protection dog).

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Gugo7
New Member

Posts: 2
From:Gugo7@msn.com
Registered: Aug 2003

posted 08-22-2003 06:11 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for Gugo7   Click Here to Email Gugo7     Edit/Delete Message
I know all the concerns of having a pit bull ive talked to many trainers they have all told me that if my dog skratchs a person or other dog without haveing a single skratch or bite on him they can put him to sleep and sue me for all I got. That doesnt sound to nice to me . Dont get me wrong I love my dog its the best dog listens to every single command I just wish it was alitlte more not aggressive but alert. What goob said was very intresting about Pitbulls being bred not to attack humans I did not know about that. But ive read that Pitbulls were bred specificly to fight other dogs. Its sad the bad media attention these dogs have gotten all that BS about Pitbulls are worste dogs and whatever couldnt be farther from the truth. All the people that have owned or worked with APBT love it. Thanks for all your help guys. About how long does it take for a APBT or all dogs in general to become more alert and ect.
PS. Jas I did fight back it was no challenge 3 verse 1 I couldnt do anything.

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the_maine_pitbull
Member

Posts: 50
From:Allagash, Maine USA
Registered: Jun 2003

posted 09-04-2003 08:51 AM     Click Here to See the Profile for the_maine_pitbull   Click Here to Email the_maine_pitbull     Edit/Delete Message
I am sorry for your attack but something you need to understand. Pitbull's aren't very good sources of protection. They are very people friendly dogs and will try their best to avoid hurting a person. The dog is young and curious. It barks when someone comes because of the noise and because they are eager to see who is on the other side. Obviously your dog is not an attack dog. That is good though, you do not want a meanie dog.. However, there is nothing wrong with your dog. They are just not ones that like to attack people. Especioally at his age. Like stated before, it would be like asking your 8 year old child to step out and help you... Don't hate the dog.. love him for being non-aggressive...

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