posted 03-14-2003 02:00 PM            

AAS Messageboard Admin Page

Re: Look at the facts.................

Posted By: Michelle Rush
Date: Thursday, 13 March 2003, at 4:01 p.m.

In Response To: Look at the facts................. (Emma)

I am very disapointed that this group supports BSL in banning breeds. Any dog handler and/or trainer will never refer to a dog as aggressive simply because of its breed and is very wrong to do so.

Any dog can be visious, that all depends on the type of handling done by the owner or trainer. There could also be medical reasons the dog has aggression problems. AND one must look at the history of the breed to understand why the problem exists in the first place.

Has nobody done their homework on these breeds?
APBT's have been around since the begining of time....1830 ish (no one knows for sure, but many pictures can be located of this breed joining thier master on a hunt). APBT were orignally bred to be Bull Bait dogs...they would assist with holding down the Bull while the human did what it had to to fetch dinner for the family. Once Bull Bait was ruled out HUMANS turned the APBT into a dog fighter. This aggression stems from HUMANS. Why are we going to kill these wonderful dogs because of what HUMANS did to it?

There should be specific rules to own a breed like this. It takes a certain kinda person to properly care for them.

APBT's are used in search and rescue and are also used in Hospitals and Retirement homes to help lift the spirits of the elderly.

These dogs have much good about them, don't let the few that were bred by Back Yard Breeders ruin it for all APBT's. The majority are great, loving, loyal companions...I know because I own one and have many friends that own them and they are all great loving companions.

Vancouver needs to wake up and those that claim to be trainers need to wake up and SEE the problem, step forward and help educate the Vancouver area on Responsible Dog Ownership!

Thanks
Michelle

Hello Michelle,

You write, "AND one must look at the history of the breed to understand why the problem exists in the first place." You are exactly right, one must look at the history of a breed to know why it behaves the way it does.

You give the very reason that some breeds should never have been fabricated in the first place - a dog bred to be strong enough and tenacious enough to hold down a bull is the very reason why Pit Bulls are such a problem to society. I know a Beagle couldn't do that no matter how many Tim Bits you offered it!

A breed of dog is not a work of god, untouchable and immutable and 1830 is hardly the beginning of time. Apparently about 10,000 years ago is the beginning of time for the domestication of dogs. I don't know when genetic selection for specific behaviours (breeding) began, but possibly 5000 years ago. Following your argument, we are forced to accept that any canine that is created to serve a need or a market, no matter how vile (killing bulls, fighting) and no matter how recently, may never cease to exist - even if it is a 300 lb bull baiting, fighting, guarding monster. What you are saying is that any dog, no matter what evil it is bred for, is sacrosanct - once it's here.

Gaining a market niche are Mastiff-Rottweiler crosses and breeds such as Fila Mastiffs, described to AAS by one protection dog breeder this way: "They bite - no warning, just come up and bite. Can jump six foot fences. Can be over 200 lbs. Bred to chase slaves and for jaguar hunting". If anyone suggests that society would be safer and more civil without these breeds, "experts" and uncomprehending dog-lovers rush to their defence.

You're also saying that you are not capable of loving any but "your " breed. I have a German Shepherd, who because he is of a breed especially chosen for protection traits and because German Shepherds are specifically alert and intense, is a potential danger, and I won't pretend he isn't. And I've had Beagles, and they were deliberately bred to track and that's what almost all of them do, and I won't pretend that isn't true. But they are not good pets because they are obsessed with food, run away and pay no attention to you - traits that were deliberately bred into them so that they would lead and you would follow. And as much as I love every dog I've ever had, if both German Shepherds and Beagles disappeared tomorrow, so what? There are breeds that are far more suitable for human companionship who aren't mistreated and suffer so much. My observations are that Shepherds and crosses make up around 90% of isolated, lonely, maddened yard dogs. And I know that very few Beagles get the hours of running a day that they need. Many are grossly overweight and neglected.

The argument that you and so many others use about teaching responsible behaviour being the answer is as nonsensical as all your arguments. It is the same as saying that no laws are needed banning robbery or murder or carrying weapons or reckless driving, that all that is needed is to teach people to behave responsibly.

I will not be approving your post because it simply brings out all the thousands of others who, because they own a Pit Bull that they love, refuse to acknowledge all the proof that Pit Bulls actually act out their selected behaviours. Pit Bull defenders will admit that hounds track (and have especially keen noses and ears designed to sweep for scents) and that sheepherders herd (and are especially fast, intelligent and focused), but then deny that Pit Bulls have jaws powerful enough to hold down a bull, do not give warning signals of an attack, and are tenacious enough to fight to the death.

The truth is in the really appalling way that many Pit Bull defenders freely admit that their dogs are controlled until their lives are tense, lonley, and pointless; that they never allowed to play with other dogs or to run free; that their Pit Bull is separated and isolated from the other dogs in the household; that they are always leashed and "under control"; that if guests come to the house their Pit Bull is isolated in a room; and that their Pit Bulls are frequently crated for long periods of time.

In other words, Pit Bull owners and defenders know that their dogs are dangerous and yet insist publicly and vocally that the breed is no more dangerous than any other.

Here is another appalling thing I found out when trying to save the lives of abandoned Pit Bulls - Pit Bull associations recommend that any Pit Bull that displays the very traits that it was bred for be killed.

With very few exceptions in my experience, Pit Bull owners are of two types: either brutal dog-fighters and abusers or not too bright controllers. My heart goes out to this unluckiest breed of all.

Perhaps you would like to rescue any of the Pit Bulls that no one will touch who has the sense to know that these dogs are potentially very dangerous? Here are four waiting for someone like you. Three of them have been waiting for five years. Jen, would you send Michelle a picture of the breeding pit bull?

posted 03-14-2003 04:35 PM           

"The truth is in the really appalling way that many Pit Bull defenders freely admit that their dogs are controlled until their lives are tense, lonley, and pointless; that they never allowed to play with other dogs or to run free; that their Pit Bull is separated and isolated from the other dogs in the household; that they are always leashed and "under control"; that if guests come to the house their Pit Bull is isolated in a room; and that their Pit Bulls are frequently crated for long periods of time."

I don't know ANY pit bulls that are treated like this... mine sure as hell aren't. Pits aren't pack animals and many don't particularly enjoy playing with other strange dogs. My dogs have friends, but only a few that we know very well.

"In other words, Pit Bull owners and defenders know that their dogs are dangerous and yet insist publicly and vocally that the breed is no more dangerous than any other."

Dog aggression and human aggression are two TOTALLY different things. A well bred, properly socialized pit bull terrier would NEVER attack a human.

"Here is another appalling thing I found out when trying to save the lives of abandoned Pit Bulls - Pit Bull associations recommend that any Pit Bull that displays the very traits that it was bred for be killed."

Back to human aggession vs dog aggression. Human aggression is NEVER acceptable....dog aggression is an unpleasant fact of life with some of these dogs.

"With very few exceptions in my experience, Pit Bull owners are of two types: either brutal dog-fighters and abusers or not too bright controllers. My heart goes out to this unluckiest breed of all."

What the hell? Is this slag serious? She has NO idea what the majority of pit bull owners are like. We are from all walks of life, and hold varied professions. I work for the largest media company in the world, AOL Time Warner, and my dogs aren't fought or abused and I'm pretty damn bright./..I speak 4 language fluenty and hold 3 degrees from an accredited Jesuit University.... What about all the famous APBT owners? Teddy Roosevelt, Fred Astaire, Linda Blair, Michael J. Fox, Vin Diesel, Usher, Venus Williams, Bernadette Peters, Sinbad, Ice-T, Helen Keller and on and on?

I wrote the following for a co-worker of mine a while back. Feel free to forward it to this know-it-all breed banning freak that's surpressing your right to free speech:

We DO NOT adopt out dogs that have a known fighting background. The general public is not educated enough to handle dogs with a fighting background, hence the reason that when dog fighting rings are broken up almost every dog seized is euthanized. True enough, many of our rescues come from unknown origins, but we carefully temperament test each one according to the standards set forth by the ACTTA. The American Canine Temperament Testing Association is an organization that titles dogs for passing its temperament test. The test consists of putting the dog into a series of unexpected situations, some involving strangers. The dog fails the test if it shows any signs of unprovoked aggression or panic around people. Of all dogs that take the test, 77% on average pass. But among pit bulls who take the test, 95% on average pass--one of the highest passing rates of all breeds. These numbers have also been scientifically proven through the ATTS...American Temperament Testing Society.

Because of ignorant breeders, the gentle, affectionate qualities that were so crucial to the old-time breeders of pit bulls also disappeared. Idiotic ads in the classified section announcing "Pitbull pups for sale. Big-boned. Big heads. Excellent attack dogs. No papers. $250" began to appear. From the old-time breeders' point of view, the gentle qualities were an absolutely indispensable safety precaution to be bred into a fighting dog, since no dog could be fought if it couldn't be safely handled by its owner during a pit contest. By no means do I condone or support dog fighting, but it is crucial to understand the way they were bred to understand the breed. These breeders bred for a type that was extremely easy-going and docile around people and would NEVER think of biting a friendly hand, even amid the frenzy of a fight. A WELL-BRED pit bull is so reliable in this respect that even if he is badly hurt in an automobile accident and is in extreme pain, he won't snap at his owner who tries to pick him up--unlike most dogs in that situation. Well-bred pit bulls are like labs in that they will never try to dominate their owners through threats, such as growling or baring teeth or snapping. It is a very rare pit bull that will growl when you pick up his food dish or reach into his mouth to take a bone away. The analogy to labs is relevant because both of these breeds were selectively bred for tasks that demanded an extreme level of generosity toward people. Can you imagine a lab that snarled when you tried to take the duck from his mouth? Such a dog would have been culled from a serious performance-based breeding program. Likewise, any APBT that showed the least sign of aggression toward people was culled as unsuitable for breeding. Whether true or not, it was an article of faith among old-time breeders that a human-aggressive dog simply could not be dead game. In any case, such a dog would have been unsuitable for fighting purposes: no one would volunteer to be its handler or to referee the match. As a result of this careful breeding history, the APBT is an extremely easy-going, human-loving dog.

Like any other breed of dog, the key areas of focus for ensuring a happy, well adjusted American Pit Bull Terrier as a pet are: owner education, proper breeding, socialization, and training. A break down in any one or more of these areas could lead to problems down the road.

The APBT is, contrary to popular belief, very human-friendly and will not naturally be aggressive towards humans. The APBT is, however, very loyal and eager to please, so that if an owner wants a dog to be aggressive toward humans and reinforces this behaviour from an early age, the dog will most likely be aggressive towards humans as an adult.

Many people equate or confuse aggressivness towards other dogs with aggressivness towards humans. I have seen newspaper reports in which "concerned neighbors" are quoted saying things like, "This time it killed a stray cat; tomorrow it may be my children." Yet animal-aggressiveness is an entirely different thing from human-aggressiveness. There is no reason to infer from its killing a cat that a dog--any dog, not just an APBT--will ever show aggression toward human beings. Dogs can and do discriminate, even if irate neighbors cannot.

When it comes to pit bulls we aren't in an entirely different ballgame...One of the most enduring urban legends involving dogs is the one about Doberman Pinscher's supposed tendency to suddenly "turn on" their loving owners. This violent change in behavior is said to be precipitated by a natural swelling of the dog's brain at a certain age (the exact age differs according to the retelling). Of course this legend has no basis at all in fact. The "pit bull" has replaced the Doberman Pinscher as the stereotypical "vicious breed," but the same human ignorance and credulity is behind the persistence of such legends.

Do you know that the APBT was once considered to be a wonderful family pet by the general public? During World War I, an APBT was used to represent the United States on a propaganda poster. During the 1930's and 40's, every kid who watched the Lil' Rascals wanted a dog just like "Pete the pup" who was an APBT. Hellen Keller owned a pit bull. So have other famous people such as Fred Astaire, President Theodore Roosevelt, and General George Patton. Currently, people such as Michael J. Fox, Stephany Kramer, Jan Michael Vincent, Bernadette Peters, Linda Blair, Usher, Venus Williams and Jeremy Miller own or have owned an APBT.

I was attacked by a poorly bred cocker spaniel when I was a kid, still have the scar on my left calf. Yet, I don't assume that all cockers are going to attack me. Many pit bulls today are used as search and rescue dogs, (see www.forpitssake.org), therapy dogs, narcotics detection dogs and service dogs. See for yourself:
http://www.pitbullsontheweb.com/petbull/pospress.html

posted 03-17-2003 12:57 PM            

Big hugs and kisses coming your alls way

Cheers

Rotty Mommy....Thank you for your insite!
Here the most recent ban was for Pit Bulls and ROtweilers...so yes...your right when you say BSL will be attacking both breeds...then who knows we'll be left with Chuauas! Oh and congrats on the obedience. Glad to hear your baby has come a long way!

posted 03-20-2003 12:16 PM            

As per the neighborhood kids, I myself have not had this problem as I do not leave my dog in the yard un attended ever, but a friend of mine had this problem...he ran out and screamed at the kids and told them if they come and do it again, he's taking them to their parents and telling on them and if that doesn't scare them, then he tells them he's gona call the cops and they will be locked up - kids you can scare them pretty easily. I told him to handle it differently, but he's Italian and you know those Italian tempers (I'm Italian, so I take no offence to that).