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Posted by Topic subject:   PETS BILL OF RIGHTS
tybrax
Member

Posts: 58
From:australia
Registered: Dec 2002

posted 03-11-2003 01:27 AM     Click Here to See the Profile for tybrax   Click Here to Email tybrax     Edit/Delete Message
1/ WE HAVE THE RIGHT TO BE FULL MEMBERS OF YOUR FAMILY.WE THRIVE ON SOCIAL INTERACTION
PRAISE,AND LOVE.
2/WE HAVE THE RIGHTS TO STIMULATION .WE NEED
NEW GAMES ,NEW TOYS , NEW EXPERIENCES , AND NEW SMELLS TO BE HAPPY.

3/ WE HAVE THE RIGHT TO REGULAR EXERCISE. WITHOUT IT , WE COULD BECOME HYPER,SLUGGISH,OR FAT.

4/WE HAVE THE RIGHT TO HAVE FUN.WE ENJOY ACTING LIKE CLOWNS NOW AN THEN; DONT EXOECT
US TO BE PREDICTABLE ALL THE TIME.

5/ WE HAVE THE RIGHTS TO QUALITY HEALTH CARE.
PLEASE STAY GOOD FRIENDS WITH YOUR VET.

6/WE HAVE THE RIGHT TO A GOOD DIET. LIKE SOME PEOPLE , WE DON;T KNOW WHATS BEST FOR US.WE DEPEND ON YOU.

7/WE HAVE THE RIGHT NOT TO BE REJECTED BECAUSE OF YOUR EXPECTATIONS THAT WE BE GREAT
SHOW DOGS OR SHOW CATS , WATCHDOGS, HUNTERS,OR BABY SITTERS.

8/ WE HAVE THE RIGHT TO RECIEVE PROPER TRAINING . OTHERWISE ,OUR GOOD RELATIONSHIP COULD BE MARRED BY CONFUSION AND STRIFE-AND WE COULD BECOME DANGEROUS TO OURSELVES AND OTHERS.

9/ WE HAVE THE RIGHT TO GUIDENCE AND CORRECTION BASED ON UNDERSTANDING AND COMPASSION , RATHER THAN ABUSE.

10/WE HAVE THE RIGHT TO LIVE WITH DIGNITY , AND TO DIE WITH DIGNITY WHEN THE TIME COMES.
WE DO HAVE A RIGHT.

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PITBULL_PRINCESS1979
Member

Posts: 414
From:LOUISIANA,USA
Registered: Dec 2002

posted 03-11-2003 12:32 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for PITBULL_PRINCESS1979     Edit/Delete Message
That is a wonderful post.I agree with everything.Good job!

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goob
unregistered
posted 03-11-2003 06:50 PM           Edit/Delete Message
I agree with almost all of the things there, but don't think that pets should have a "bill of rights", so to speak. Such a thing could easily be turned againt responsible pet owners, and their dogs. For example, #2.. I don't often walk my APBT outside of my yard because she's shy around people she doesn't know, and I don't want to risk getting ambushed by a stray dog while we're alone; yet I take her on several walks in the yard a day, she goes for car rides, boat rides, to my father's work shop in the city, etc.... so is she being deprived of new experiences because she doesn't get to go on walks? I don't think so, but someone else may disagree, it's all about how you interpret things, and no two people will read that and think exactly the same thing. Or #3... what constitutes "regular exercise"? If I asked a working APBT breeder what they thought about my hound Goo right now, they'd say she needs more muscle tone and to drop about 5 lbs... yet she's actually at "normal pet" weight right now (a little heavier than I'd like, but we've been lazy this winter), and in fairly good shape. By the same standards, some people would say that "working fit" APBTs are too skinny, and aren't being fed enough, so which should be believed? Good health care.... is that like the dog on that "Animal Precinct" show that had a tumor, and his owners were letting him live out the rest of his life because they didn't have the money to pay for a treatment that might or might NOT work, and the dog was confiscated from them because they weren't taking "good enough" care of it? Good diet... everytime I make macaroni & cheese, I give my dog a big spoonful on a plate, and two of her favorite "foods" are swedish fish and chocolate chip cookies (she doesn't et many of either, but I do let her have a piece on occasion)... some people think that "people food" isn't good for dogs, others think that anything less than BARF is "poor quality food". What is proper training???... only positive? Whatever the owner wants as long as it gets the job done? How much training does the dog have to have to be considered "properly trained"? What constitutes "abuse"? For some, "abuse" is me taking one of the smaller dogs running to a local park 4 miles from here, hanging around on the beach for a few hours, then coming home again (total length= 8 miles, with a few quick stops for water for her along the way), or taking her to the field and playing catch or tug with her for a few hours... for others, I could leave the dog outside all year long and they wouldn't think anything was wrong with that. I know that my examples are extreme in some cases, but it's quite possible that there would be other similar problems if such a bill was passed. There is just too much left "open" for interpretation, and not enough clear definitions for what is what.

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shmoopie
Member

Posts: 361
From:Vancouver, BC
Registered: Jan 2003

posted 03-12-2003 01:03 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for shmoopie   Click Here to Email shmoopie     Edit/Delete Message
Tybrax - Great Post! - Something for every dog owner


Goob...always so serious

I agree with the walking thing. APBT's should not be taken for walks like normals dogs, but instead we have to find other ways to exercise their body and mind like short training sessions at various times each day and playing in a safe confined back yard...this definatley works best and keeps our dogs and other dogs safe. Take the dog to friends and family's houses where one knows the dog will not encounter other animals.

Now I do realize not all APBT will show animals aggression, but it is something that should remain in the frontal lobe of every APBT owners brain because there is always going to be a dog that thinks its bigger and tougher..but we all know who will win and lose with their life....our very intelligent Bullies.

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PITBULL_PRINCESS1979
Member

Posts: 414
From:LOUISIANA,USA
Registered: Dec 2002

posted 03-12-2003 03:22 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for PITBULL_PRINCESS1979     Edit/Delete Message
This right here is where I disagree with everyone.I think all breed of dogs should have the same rights...Everyone want to stand up for pits,but when it comes down to it they treat them different.
I take my dogs for walks around my block.I treat them no different than I would treat any other dog.
I believe in tybrax's post.My dogs are no more dangerous than the next person(no matter the breed).I will never confine my dogs to just having to walk in the yard...I believe that it is wrong.
I am not judging any of you for the way you handle your dogs...You have to do what works for you..This is just my opinion.

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goob
Member

Posts: 186
From:
Registered: Mar 2003

posted 03-12-2003 06:31 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for goob     Edit/Delete Message
I don't think that all pit bulls should be "banned" from going for walks, but in my dog's case, she couldn't care less about meeting people (actually, I think she'd rather pass on those types of "opportunities", since she's afraid of strangers anyway), and she gets so worked up sometimes when another dog comes near us that our entire trip outside is ruined. I see absolutely NO reason to put her through so much stress to do something that's supposed to be "fun". We have a big yard, and in summer we go out in the boat almost every day (she gets to see/smell all different things then), so I don't think she's missing out on too much. We do occasionally take her to a local park that has a strictly enforced leash rule, and doesn't usually have a highly concentrated amount of people. She likes it, but no more than she likes her "normal" walks around the yard. Just because I don't do something with one of our dogs though, doesn't mean that I don't think there are thousands of other dog/owner combinations out there that enjoy and can handle such outings. Of course, I don't agree with people letting their APBTs walk with them off-leash, but there's nothing wrong with taking one for a walk, as long as it is under control and does not add to the bad image the breed already has.

APBTs ARE different than other breeds, and require a more dedicated owner than some other breeds. I would feel pretty safe taking the "average" lab to a dogpark that the lab wouldn't case too much trouble... but you couldn't pay me to take the "average" APBT to a dogpark and let it loose with dozens of other dogs. Another example: last year we (me and a friend) took two of the smaller dogs to a HS fundraiser walk thing, and someone brought their pit bull in as we were standing around afterwards. Surprisingly, people seemed pretty accepting of the pit bull and it "mingled" without incident for about 1/2 hr, until another dog wandered (who knows why this particular dog set it off, as it had been sniffing at other dogs beforehand without incident) up to it and the pit bull hopped on the "instigator", creating a big ruckus and attracting a lot of (negative) attention. The fight wasn't too serious, and was broken up pretty quickly by a couple people, but the crowd was still talking about it hours later. This dog's owner was treating it like a "normal dog", and they ended up doing quite a bit of harm to the breed's reputation that day, since there were over 1000 people there, and I don't think many of them understood that dog aggression is a breed trait, and not connected to human aggression. All they saw was the pit bull "turning" on the other dog, as afterwards the owner was saying "he's never acted like this before, I don't know what happened".

[This message has been edited by goob (edited 03-12-2003).]

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shmoopie
Member

Posts: 361
From:Vancouver, BC
Registered: Jan 2003

posted 03-12-2003 07:15 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for shmoopie   Click Here to Email shmoopie     Edit/Delete Message
Go figure...novice handlers...there should be a requirment to own this breed.

Goob, you sound like such a caring person...don't think anyone considers you to keep you dog lacking of what it needs.

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tybrax
Member

Posts: 58
From:australia
Registered: Dec 2002

posted 03-13-2003 04:00 AM     Click Here to See the Profile for tybrax   Click Here to Email tybrax     Edit/Delete Message
all creatures great and small , whether they are 2 legged or 4 legged have rights. if they didn;t have rights why do we have animal
activist ? I walk tyra at night,she is only tiny. as for brax, well thats another story
i am only 5ft and there is know way i can walk him, he walks me .I am probally better of putting a saddle on him and riding him.
there is know way i would walk any dog without a lead,or let them off in a park to run , if there are other dogs there.goob sounds like your girl suffers from anxiety?
Do you no here in qld there have been 8,000
dogs killed by our council;s since last year
people have handed there dogs over because of the fear of the councils, now these poor dogs , might of been a pitbull, or looked like a pitbull, cross pitty, oh ye it has a head shaped like a pitty, now 8000, dogs
imagine what these families have gone through
this is a systematic slaughter , of innocent pets , they didn;t have rights , of course
they have fights, these families and children that are suffering because of this
heinus law.

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PITBULL_PRINCESS1979
Member

Posts: 414
From:LOUISIANA,USA
Registered: Dec 2002

posted 03-13-2003 10:07 AM     Click Here to See the Profile for PITBULL_PRINCESS1979     Edit/Delete Message
I understand where you are coming from Goob...It does take a special kind of person to owen a pit...and I would never ever just let one of my dogs run free..Not just because I would be worried what it might do,but I would worry more about what someone else or their dog would do.I also said ,you have to do what is right for you and your dog.I di not mean any disrespect.It sounds as if you really care for this breed,and I respect you for that.There needs to be more pit owner like that.I am just glad we have so many at this forum that are this way.
My dogs love people and I have never had any trouble with stray dogs bothing my dogs.Most of the time they ignore them.How ever I do always have my guard up just incase something ever does happen.
I have no problems with how someone raises their dogs as long as the dog is happy and healthy.I may disagree with people at time,but as long as they are taking care of them,then its all good.

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goob
Member

Posts: 186
From:
Registered: Mar 2003

posted 03-13-2003 12:31 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for goob     Edit/Delete Message
Sure, animals have rights, and there are people out there who are supposedly "for" the animals' rights... but it just disturbs me a little when most of those "animal rights" organizations call for the extermination of all "fighting" or "guard" breeds. That's one of the main reasons I don't agree with giving those people even more of a means to "serve my dog's rights" and remove her from her obviously miserable life with me ( ). There would need to be some strict guidelines and governing rules before I'd ever agree to support a "bill or rights" for pets. Doesn't mean I don't think they have rights, more that I don't trust that the people who would be in charge of enforcing the bill would be able to do so fairly.

re: my dog, she's very nervous around strange people, but fine if we pass someone on one of our walks... she only starts to get nervous if she has time to think about whats going on, or if they move too close to us (with 10 ft) she'll start to get tense, is not "aggressive", just very wary. She's also more afraid of males than of females. Her dog aggression is pretty well under control now, but if another dog surprises us by running out from behind a car or coming up behind us, she'll try her hardest to get them. Otherwise, she will quietly hold a sit unless they get super close (within 5 ft), then just can't resist anymore. If I'm aware that the other dog is there, I can either pull her head up against my leg so she can't get them, or even pick her up if necessary(that's always good for a laugh, me picking up a dog that weighs over half as much as me to "protect" it from vicious ankle biter ), but if I don't know they're there, there's not much I can do. I'd have a hard time breaking her and another large dog up if by some chance they got into a fight while I was alone, so it's much easier to have someone else along with me to get rid of the other dog before it gets too close. Of course, it's hard to find competent people to act as stray dog deterrents, so we don't usually go on walks.

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shmoopie
Member

Posts: 361
From:Vancouver, BC
Registered: Jan 2003

posted 03-13-2003 07:43 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for shmoopie   Click Here to Email shmoopie     Edit/Delete Message
Goob,I feel the same as you regarding running from other dogs. Can you imagine how ridiculous I look with this huge 90lb male Bully and running from the lil white fluffy thing...I am usually lauphing so hard I cry..oh well. I'd rather run from it than have my dog eat it lol..those damn dogs can be so cocky...makes me lauph though

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Russ in vancouver
unregistered
posted 03-14-2003 07:53 AM           Edit/Delete Message
Hi all,

on a different PC,

I agree alot with the way goob is thinking.

I also think that pb should not be treated like a normal dog. Yes they are dogs but as I said before, they are like the great white dogs of dogs. They need more care, knowledge and respect.

People that take their dogs to public areas that know their dog has a history of being dominant, are not doing the breed any favours. If the pb behaves well, everything is good, but as soon as it turns on anything, even an aggressive GSD or rotty, it is the pb fault in the publics eyes.

Negative stereotypes are burned into 99% of the peoples fragile brains that a pb is an unprovoked killer.

Well, in truth, some are. As we all know, a bite from a pom pom is like a mosquito bite compared to a hornet sting. Same goes for our beloved pb. One bite and shake is all it takes for a dispute with a lesser dog. 99% of dogs being lesser.

I guess what my point is, is these dogs are not for the person that wants to prove that they have equal rights, just as all the other dogs do. When you got this dog, it was packaged with alot of great responsibilities. Most of these involve keeping your dog seperate from other dogs. The lucky people can try their luck and let them be together with other dogs, but in my experience, it can turn into a nightmare faster than you can pick up a quarter off the ground.

Like goob said, the impact of that single incident with a pb probably influenced 1000 people to have bad/negative feelings about pb after they witnessed it. They don't need any explainations. No instant replays. Its a memory they will never forget. It doesnt help out the breed.

There are people that byb and ruin the breed. People that fight them and leave them for dead in alleys. People that think its just a normal dog and get into trouble through ignorance.

Rule #1 about pit bulls
Never trust a pitbull to not fight

Rule #2
Refer to rule #1

Everyone, dont get me wrong ok, especially you princess. I love my dogs with all my heart and would sell my house and pack up if I had to, to save my dogs.

But I believe that part/alot of damage to our breed comes from the ones that love them the most, but don't know how to protect what they love about this breed properly.

Russ

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PITBULL_PRINCESS1979
Member

Posts: 414
From:LOUISIANA,USA
Registered: Dec 2002

posted 03-14-2003 11:51 AM     Click Here to See the Profile for PITBULL_PRINCESS1979     Edit/Delete Message
You know me,I saw my name and had to reply...lol..I know alot of you in here think I am an a**.Thats fine with me..
I agree with alot of what all of you have said.Pitbull are like no other breed.They do have to have specail owner.They are alot of responsiblity...I agree with all of this.
The point that I am trying to make is that,My dogs and I have just as much right to walk down the street and someone with a fufu dog.I should not have to muzzle my dogs.If that is the case then every dog needs to be muzzled.I keep my dogs on a short leash when we are out and I take other precautions.My main concern when I am out is the safty of me and my dogs.That is what is #1.
I do not mean to knock anyone for what they have to do to make sure their pits are safe.If you fill safer by putting a muzzle on your dog,cool.If you feel safer not taking them out in public for a walk,cool.What ever you have to do.
I take my dogs out where their will not be a lot of people.My dogs love people so I try to give them as much contact as I fill safe with.I know what my dogs can handle and what they can't.I have a female that hates strange people,but loves other dogs.I have another female that hates other dogs,but loves people.So,there for I do not take them for a walk in the same place.
I am sure alot of you think my methods are crazy,but I know what my dogs can handle,like you know what yours can handle.
I trust and love my dogs more than anything else on this planet.Thats why I will and do fight so damn hard for the right to have and breed them.They are a design of profection.I can think of nothing better than the love,respect,loyalty,honor,beauty this breed gives.
I believe in animal rights and I will stand up for them any time.It the way some people proceive them that is the problem.
One last thing...I just wanted to say that I think alot of you here are wonderful people.Even though we may not always agree,I have alot of respect for you.It take a good person to raise a pitbull the right way.I just wanted to say thanks from me and my babies.

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