posted 03-07-2003 09:55 PM           

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One of the things I can't stand about some "breeders" is that they breed all these out of standard dogs just for color, then sell them for hundreds or thousands more than they should simply because they think they're a "rare" color. Like blues and blue fawns... A couple years ago, they were uncommon, but now they're everywhere. There's plenty of them in rescue circles, and some have horrible temperments/conformation. Then there's the common BYB, who's peddling "huge head, stocky, wide chested blue pups". They pay no attention to the problems they're breeding into the pups, just raking in the money from all the fools. They're breeding any blue to blue to blue to blue in an effort to get more blue pups, and coming up with all sorts of health/temperment problems... allergies, heart defects, skin problems, eye problems... the list goes on. Red/rednose dogs are still suffering from their bout of popularity a few years back, with their own health/temperment problems. Then with mostly/all white dogs, there's problems with deafness, skin issues, and allergies again. Even worse than those breeders, are the ones who are breeding "merle" APBTs... it's impossible for the merle color to just "show up" in the APBT breed. There had to have been some breed mixing in order for that pattern to be in these "APBT"'s lines. And besides the fact that these merle dogs aren't even purebred APBTs, and carry who knows what health/temperment problems from who knows what breed(s) (most likely the other breed is catahoula, but some of them look like they might even be dane mixes, so I guess it could come from there, too). It just makes me soo mad to see all these people breeding only for a color, and disreguarding all the other, more important traits.

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posted 03-10-2003 09:25 AM         

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Hey Goob,
I have to agree with you on that..i think it is wrong to breed just for color.To me the temperment and health are my number one concern...As it should be..
White pitbulls are different from alot of breeds.They do not have the trait that makes them blind or deaf...Like most solid white dogs...I learned that when I got Jesus..I was worried about it,but my vet told me not to worried.It does not effect pitbulls like other breeds.

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posted 03-10-2003 12:17 PM           

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Not true. All white APBTs do have a higher incidence of deafness than their colored counterparts. They have a type of deafness that is caused by lack of pigment in the skin of their inner ear. In some breeds, the dogs have white coats, but their skin still has a fairly dark pigment, and these dogs don't usually have problems with deafness, but in APBTs (and ABs, Bull Terriers, AmStaffs) the white coloration is caused by "extreme white spotting", and thus has no pigment on those white spots (which can cover all or most of the dog's body). APBTs don't usually have blindness when white, I think you're referring to "double merles", where they can be blind, have eye defects, or be missing the eye entirely. The merle gene is not "part" of the APBT breed, so APBTs can't be double merle.
Here's a site that explains some ways deafness in dogs can occur... http://deafdogs.org/faq/

And here are some examples of APBTs/AmStaffs that are mostly/all white, and are deaf (there are also a couple colored deaf APBTs on there, but the majority are mostly white, and one of the colored ones has an all white head, which means her deafness is probably also pigment-related. Ditto, the dane mix is a double merle, so his deafness isn't necessarily due to the same things as the other dogs'). http://deafdogs.org/adoption/sapbt.html

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posted 03-10-2003 12:39 PM         

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I am just going by what my vet told me...I am not saying it can't happen..What I was saying is the risk is less than most breeds.Thanks for the websites.They were helpful.

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posted 03-11-2003 06:23 PM           

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The risk isn't dependent upon specific breed with this type of deafness, but on lack of pigment in the ear. That can happen in quite a few breeds, and the deafness seems to be most common in dogs where the white spotting is concentrated on the head (though it may also cover the entire body). Breed has nothing to do with it.

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posted 03-11-2003 06:29 PM         

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Well,from experiance,I have never had any problems from any of my white pits..I am not say it doesn't happen...I just has not happened to me...Sorry,but the breed does make difference..What I mean by that is their genetic makeup...Do not misunderstand me,I am not saying that what your saying is not true...I am just going by my vet's office.There are some of the best vets in this state..So,I think they know what they are talking about.

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posted 03-11-2003 08:48 PM         

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Breed does not make a difference in a dog's color genetics... an APBT with "extreme white spotting" over a black coat (that may make him appear completely white) is caused by the same genes as a boxer with "extreme white spotting" over a black coat. Sooo... how does breed make a difference in the dog's color genes?

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posted 03-12-2003 09:17 AM         

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I never said it made a difference in their color gene....Because alot of breeds have the same colors..All I said is that there is a certain gene that causes blindness and deafness in white dogs....Its not the color it it another structure in their gene pool.Pitbulls or not prone to having them..That is what I said.Like I said earlier..My vet is the one who told me.I am sorry if you think I am wrong,but My vet went to school for many years.I think they know animals.

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posted 03-12-2003 01:09 PM            

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Hey all

Duke's sister was all white and she never had any hearing problems or health problems and other white APBT's I've met were just fine. I think it depends on the breeding and how the mother was taken care of at the time of pregnancy.

Duke is mostly white and he doesn't have any hearing problems..only very sensitive skin. He has digestion problems, but that stems fromt the Parvo he had as a puppy, which majorly affected his lil tummy

I recently found a great magazine on Bully breeds...fantastic reading in there..all positive stuff...except for the elaboration on the dog-dog aggression. I think it's good they point it out though because a lot of new APBT owners will pick up a magazine like that and it is definatley something that new owners need to be made aware of!

Cheers

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posted 03-12-2003 01:21 PM         

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The only type of deafness linked to a dog's color is the type of deafness caused by lack of pigment in the ear. The other types are not related to a dog's color. As I said before, you might mean that APBTs can't have the merle gene/pattern, which can cause deafness, and blindness in "double merles". That would be right, as merle is not a pattern that APBTs have (the gene that makes them white is the "piebald" gene). That is the only other "color related" cause of deafness in dogs. Here are a couple other links that may explain the causes better.
http://www.critterchat.net/deafpuppies1.htm
http://www.lsu.edu/deafness/VetClinNA.htm

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posted 03-12-2003 01:39 PM         

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I don't mean that ANY white dogs will be deaf, as there are plenty out there that aren't. There are white APBTs that can hear fine, as well as white Boxers, white Bull Terriers, ABs, and other breeds, so it's obvious that the deafness doesn't occur in every white dog. Congenital deafness is more common in white APBTs than in colored APBTs though, as well as the other breeds I mentioned. White dogs also are more sensitive to the sun, and thought by some to be more likely to have allergies.

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posted 03-12-2003 03:14 PM         

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I know all about them being sensative to the sun and having bad allergie....lol..I have to keep sunblock on my white pit,just about all year long..Plus he has to take meds for his allergies...So,I agree with you on that.

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posted 03-12-2003 05:32 PM            

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Duke's definatley got allergies and is very sensitive to the sun..SPF 30 works pretty darn good lol

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posted 03-12-2003 06:51 PM         

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Here's our little white (she does have a really light fawn color over her ears, and on part of her tail) "train wreck", Haley (she's not really "ours", but she'll probably be living here for at least a while). Looks pretty, and healthy huh (except the missing leg)?

Wrong. She's got allergies, and her skin is almost constantly irritated, she also gets sunburned easily (her stupid owner had her outside for 3 hrs last summer, then wondered why she was all red and didn't want to be petted when she brought her back inside later). In addition to her "skin" problems, she has diabetes and another problem with her pancreas that it won't produce enough enzymes to digest her food. So she has to get insulin shots, food, and enzyme pills at scheduled times every day or she'll quickly waste away and die. The diabetes/pancreas problem aren't caused by her being all white, but there's a decent chance that they are caused by some BYB trying to make "all white" dogs so they could sell them for more, and not paying attention to what they were breeding into their lines.

** If the pic didn't show up, you should be able to see it if you copy and paste the URL into the address bar.

[This message has been edited by goob (edited 03-12-2003).]

[This message has been edited by goob (edited 03-12-2003).]

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posted 03-12-2003 07:10 PM            

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Oh Goob...she looks like a real sweetie

Breaks my heart that she has so many health problems...poor girl...give her some hugs and kisses for me.

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posted 03-13-2003 10:13 AM         

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She is very pretty...She seems like she would be a really seet baby...I hate to hear that she has all those health problems..

Just to make things clear..I have a well respected kennel.I work with some of the very best breeders.We do our very best to produce health and stable dogs.When we do have a pup that has bad health problems,if who ever breeds them does not keep them.Then we only sell them to another kennel.That way we know they are getting the proper care they need.

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posted 03-13-2003 12:49 PM         

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She is sweet. I'm actually thinking that if she stays here long enough for us to teach her some manners, she'd be a great therapy dog, since she LOVES everyone. She is a little dog aggressive, but it's not bad enough that it can't be controlled, and I think it'll get better with some more work. She was found wandering with her leg "dangling" and taped up with electrical tape, and brought to the vets my mom works at, the techs there fell in love with her, but had to turn her over to AC for "owner claim period", then bailed her out when it was up. By then her leg was infected horribly and had to be amputated. Then she was placed in a home with someone we know, and 6 months later we found out she was diabetic. By summer she was doing well (that's when the above pic was taken), but this fall she started dropping her weight again. We thought she had something else wrong with her, and my mom paid out to have all sorts of tests run on her, but at the beginning of February we found out that her owner wasn't giving her her insulin and food at the right times, and by that point she was so malnourished that she couldn't even stand up. She's been here for over a month now, and has gained back all her weight (up to 46 lbs from 34 last month, and should be good at about 50). She's a great example of the breed, temperment-wise, tolerating two shots a day (sometimes three), and still being such a trusting little beast after all she's been through. Her diabetes finally seems under control again, so we're hoping that might help "fix" some of her skin problems.

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posted 03-13-2003 02:43 PM         

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You know,That is a wonerful thing you and your mom did.That helps me keep my faith in man kind...Keep up the wonderful work..People like you make breeders like me so proud...

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posted 03-13-2003 07:31 PM            

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I didn't think there were nice people in the world anymore after reading some of the crap going on here in Vancouver, but Goob your so wonderful. Hopefully things work out well and she will remain healthy. Best of luck to you and your mom!

Cheers

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posted 03-14-2003 12:30 PM         

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Thanks She does seem to be doing well so far, so hopefully things will stay that way.

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posted 03-16-2003 05:15 PM            

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"When we do have a pup that has bad health problems,if who ever breeds them does not keep them.Then we only sell them to another kennel."

I'm kinda confused here. Are you saying that when you produce a dog with health problems you sell them to other kennels and they are still bred?

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posted 03-17-2003 03:57 PM         

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No,pups with health problems are not bred.They are sold to kennels for pets.Alot of kennels have a few that are just for pets.

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