posted 03-03-2003 07:25 PM            

Hope the weekend was good!

I located an APBT trainer in my area finally...wow.....I was amazed at how she took control of my dog in like 10 minutes flat. Normally my dog does not respond to anyone he doesn't know..not even trainers that have all the goodies yada yada yada, but this lady came out and he was shocked at her dominance and at first, got offended at her abrupt attitude, but then was more than cooperative with her. I go to all kinds of trainers and try to learn as much as possible about the different training methods used. I must say with her abrupt...I want it done now.. attitude, Duke is an angel for her and now understands a woman can be just as big a boss as any man can nener nener nener. (I say that because Duke will be great for any guy, but to a girl..he thinks he's boss...except for me - to an extent)

Anyways, I was definatley right in my assumption that I needed a trainer that specializes in the Pit Bull breed...those German Shephard trainers always told me " he just wants to play" .....yeah right...well...so glad I went with my gut instincts on that one!

I can now walk down my block in confidence that Duke is going to react to my command...such a huge difference and I have been in training for over a year...this lady showed me everything in an hour and already has made a HUGE difference.

posted 03-04-2003 01:12 PM            

One thing about Duke is I have been trying to get him to look at me more when we're out side...there is basically nothing I can do to get him to look at me. What I do is stop walking say his name...nothing happens so I look at him....wait until he looks at me then praise enormously, but he'll only look at me for like two seconds then back to staring at NOTHING...drives me nuts, but I am patient and giving him the praise he needs but he just won't cooperate with looking at me when were out; however, when we're in the house he can't take his eyes off of me....I believe this is because we do training in the house at all different times, which has taught him to always look out for those treats!

Yes, that trainer was very forceful when with her first interaction with Duke, but heck it worked to get him under a womans control. lol

I was using strictly PR priar to this lady, which didn't benefit me any..only showed Duke how to manipulate me more lol

So a forceful correction followed by praise seems to be working great so far.

I definatley agree that every dog will require a different training method, which is why I kept searching for the correct trainer and my gollie this one is great for Duke...proably not for every PB, my guy needs it!

posted 03-04-2003 01:19 PM            

P.S. that's cute regarding sitting in the corner...wonder if Duke would take offence to something like that.

posted 03-04-2003 02:44 PM            

Yeah he really loves to play "tug", but I don't like it as I have heard that it creates aggression. I'll play with him for a little bit at "tug" in the evenings, but I always make him "drop it" before I let go...he's not allowed to win with me. This keeps his tugging at a normal tugging level..man sometimes he will go off with my guy and pull him right over....what a site!
That's his problem though...I tell him whats going on, but some guys just think their way is better.

I wish I knew how to make looking at me better than eveything else....he just don't care when there is the possibility of another dog being around. The one thing he loves to death is his frisbee. I don't think I can use this because it would require rewarding him with chasing down the frisbee and when were on leash this just won't work.
Sometimes liver treats are a good eye keeper, but it all depends on his attitude for the day lol

Does praise work well for your dogs in keeping eye contact.

posted 03-04-2003 04:15 PM           

What you would do if you wanted to use a toy as his motivation is tell him to "look", and as soon as he does, drop out the toy, or hand him the end of the tug rag. Play tug/let him have the toy for a couple seconds (I usually give them under 5 seconds, unless it was a big deal thing, then they get it for longer), then out them and take it back. You also don't want to always have the reward in the same place... since it's winter and I usually have on heavy clothes now, I tuck the tug under my chin, or the ball under my arm. Another thing that might work is to get him all pumped up over the toy, then out him and tell him to "look". He may be so eager to get the toy back that he'll look, just out of instinct. It's also important to make sure that whatever you use, he ONLY gets when training... ie: if you use tug, he only gets that (particular) tug toy during training sessions... it's special .

I didn't think he looked fat, but he wasn't really standing straight in any of the pics, so he might be a little pudgy. It's common for people who have "problem dogs" or are into serious competition to have their dogs on scheduled feedings corresponding with their training times. The idea of that is to have the dog be hungry when it's time to train, so that he'll be more eager to work for the food reward, rather than "yeah, yeah, I got a whole bowl of that stuff right there". It's also helps sometimes with overly dominant dogs, because it reinforces that the owner has control of ALL resources. Some trainers don't even "give" their dogs food, but the dog "earns" it's entire daily feeding during it's training sessions. I also agree that in some instances it can lead to food issues with other dogs, and will (freely) admit that we freefeed all of our dogs. It's one of those things where you have to weigh the pros and cons that could come about in your individual situation.

posted 03-04-2003 04:30 PM           

Non-Confrontational Dominance Program
(or
"no
free lunch")


Starting immediately, your dog must earn everything it wants for the
rest of
its life. It does this by quietly sitting and staying for a few
minutes. ---
This includes sitting for the following:

Food and feeding
Treats
Love
Grooming
Being able to go outside and come back inside
Having a leash and collar put on
Having feet toweled off
Being "invited" onto the bed or couch (if owner desires)
Playing games
Playing with toys
Having a wound checked
Being petted or loved
Attention
And anything else the dog wants


All animals have rules. Dogs are no different. People can't speed
through
stop signs just like dogs can't bolt out the front door and run down
the
street. In this program, all the dog must do is place its rear on the
ground
and defer to its owner. This is a simple yet extremely powerful
behavior.
This protocol was specifically made for both dog and owner. It will not
take
away a dog's love of life, personality or spunk.

1) Avoid confrontation. If your dog is aggressive, this is paramount
for the
success of the program. If the dog is continually placed in situations
in
which it feels the need to defend itself, aggression simply becomes a
learned
behavior. Example: If your dog attempts to guard a rawhide chew and you
back
away and say, "Oh well, just finish it then." What has the dog learned?
It's
learned that aggression works. If it wants you to go away, all it has
to do
is growl. --- If the dog aggresses guarding a chewy, simply remove them
from
it's diet altogether.

2) Have specific feeding times. If the dog has food in its bowl all
the
time, why does it need you? The dog should not be free fed (unless
there is a
medical problem present). You must be the one to offer food (the bowl
coming
from your hand) when and only when the dog sits. Example: If you ask
for a
sit and the dog doesn't comply, give the dog a "no-reward mark". Now
you can
simply walk away. The dog must wait till the next feeding time for
another
chance. (A no-reward mark is not a command. It is a word that lets the
dog
know that the human is going to leave the general area. For my
no-reward mark
I use, "Too bad!" as this is easy for me to remember.)

3) Ignore controlling behavior. Example: When your dog comes up to you
while
you are sitting on the couch and nudges your arm for attention, ignore
it.
When the dog stops this behavior, call it over to you and ask for a
sit. When
the dog does, you can pet it. You have just controlled the situation,
not the
dog.

4) Praise needs to be earned. Over praising a dog makes the praise
uneventful. It is not appreciated. If you control and ration all praise
and
attention, your dog views you as more Posted byitative. Example: If your
dog
knows how to sit on command, only praise when it gives you an
exceptionally
fast sit or a perfectly square sit, etc.

5) Toys are a privilege that must be earned. The dog has access to
only one
toy at a time. You control the use of toys and the time spent playing
with
them. Example: If your dog has a toy and is insisting that you play,
(and you
don't want to) give your no-reward mark and leave the yard or room and
return
in a few minutes. Now call the dog to you and ask for a sit. --- The
dog is
only allowed to play with you when you ask for it. Give a command for
this
such as, "Let's play!" This makes things easier for the dog to
understand.
When you want to end the game give another command like, "That's all!"
This
will give your dog guidelines to follow. If your dog persists with play
after
you have requested the game to end, again give the no-reward mark and
leave
the area and do not interact with the dog for a few minutes.

6) No high places. The dog should not be allowed onto the couch or bed
without you asking. High places are a way dominant dogs use to gain
control.
Dogs feel more Posted byitative when on a higher level.

7) Do not cater to any demanding behavior. If your dog is barking in
your
face for attention, give the no-reward mark and walk away. After a few
minutes of silence from the dog, ask it to come over to you and sit.
Then you
can give attention.

8) Watch for subtle, pushy, defiant behavior. Expect mistakes on your
part
and your dog's. No one is perfect.

9) Freedom is to be earned. Example: If your dog refuses to sit for
being
let out, the dog will not be able to run loose in the yard. The dog
will have
to be taken out on a leash to relieve itself.

10) Praise your dog! Remember, fair is fair and your dog can have as
much
love and attention as it EARNS.

This way of interacting with your dog isn't cruel nor is it too much
for you
to ask. This is simply a 'hands off' approach to training. I don't
believe in
bullying a dog into submission. I try to allow the dog to learn without
my
interfering. We cannot force another living being to learn. We can only
provide a safe environment for learning. Hopefully, we can instill a
want for
knowledge. When the dog 'learns how to learn' and enjoys himself, we've
done
our job.

There are others online, but I don't think this one is so hard to follow, and some of the others are a bit more restrictive.

posted 03-04-2003 05:50 PM            

I might just change the food thing since I don't have other dogs to worry about. I also leave all his toys out for him to play with whenever he pleases...theres like 2 bones...a tug rope....3 balls,....and a squeeky thing on my living room floor right now.....I think that could be part of it as well. I don't make Duke earn too much. When he nudges my hand while I'm watching TV...I can't resist, it's just so darn cute....but I have started to ignor him when he wines and yes I now ignor him when he nudges me, but its sooo hard...I just want to cuddle all the time oops

posted 03-05-2003 01:07 PM            

I also make him sit when were going outside...this makes it much easier to put on his leash and muzzle....it used to be me running around the house to catch him...I've changed that. Also, I make him walk with me in a heel the entire time were outside....sometimes I let him out of the heel when he wants to sniff and stuff...but mostly when were walking through the neighborhood he's in a heel.

posted 03-05-2003 03:58 PM           

Do you always muzzle him when you go for walks? This can also cause stress for him, because he'll feel that he can't defend himself, and actually put on a bigger defensive display (again, possibly an attempt to "scare away" the other dog before IT gets him). I can understand your not wanting him to be able to grab another dog (I deal with the same things with mine), and being muzzled may not even play a part in your "problems", but it is something to give a little thought to.

How does he act when he see one of the dogs that he doesn't like? Hackles raised? Tail Up? Tail down? Tail straight out? Does he stare at the dog, or avert his gaze? Growl? Bark? Whine/scream? Shake? Shift back and forth? Lunge? "Rage" at the end of the lead? Does he usually do this in front of you, behind you, or beside you? Will he even take his eyes off the other dog if you say something to him?

Also, have you ever tried walking him with another dog that he's comfortable with? This alone may calm him down some, because he won't feel as if he's the only one who can "save" himself. Especially if the other dog is friendly with (or at least tolerant of) other dogs. It might also calm you down some to have someone with you to keep some of your attention off all the things that could happen. This is definitely not something that will help every dog, so no guarantees .

posted 03-06-2003 05:47 PM           

True, not ALL pit bulls will fight to the death, but if you've got one that won't, you've probably got a cur on your hands. Also, you said that your pit locked on a blue tick hound...I can guarantee you if he locked on one of my dogs one would have left in a body bag....regardless of if you hollered "Drop It". Prey drive and gameness CANNOT be controlled by a simple command...the key is to avoid situations all together by properly supervising and restraining your own animals at all times.

I rescue pits and have seen my fair share of fights between fosters when I first started. The worse EVER involved my hot headed female and a little rescue pup, Portia. Portia started getting too riled during play and I told my roommate to NEVER let them out together if I wasn't home. So, what does she do? Gets trashed one night and lets them out alone in the yard together. The fight that ensued was HORRIFIC. Lady Red was 2 at the time and Portia was 9 months. They went at it for 20 minutes, with my roommate screaming and crying. When I got home, I had to use my breaking stick to get Portia off of Red's neck. When I surveyed the damage, Lady Red had ripped Portia's head wide open.....the gash was at least 6 inches long and I could see her skull. Red had 18 deep puncture wounds, that later abcesssed and required extensive reconstructive surgery.
$1,600 later, both dogs are fine now, but Red could have easily died from her injuries. Portia got adopted shortly after that (thank god!) to a home with no other pets. These dogs were the BEST of friends before this incident. They just clicked on each other one day and that was it.

posted 03-07-2003 01:22 PM            

Amazing how there are so many different facts on the pit bull. I do not agree with all, but have to comment on the backing out of a fight issue. I'll use Duke as an example. When another dog gets into a fight with him and my guy is holding the leash...all he has to do is say "drop it" and Duke will obey..no matter how intense; however, Duke will not "drop it" in a situation like that for me. He only gets very much into the fighting mode and literally tries to kill the other dog......it is much better now thanks to trainers and behaviorists, but in the beginning of his fights....he meant buisness.

Goob,
I didn't always walk him with a muzzle as I feel very strongly that my dog should be able to protect himself; however, where I live it does not matter if I have my dog on a leash and the other dog is off leash..because of Duke's breed he would be PTS; therefore, I protect him in the longer run and I now carry mace with me so I can stop that charging lunatic dog and Duke doesn't have to protect himself anymore...I do that

Duke is a funny charachter..it all depends on his mood for the day. Some days he'll see a male Golden and turn his head as though the dog isn't even there...other days it's strait to the end of the leash and it don't matter how many tugs I give on that prong collar....he don't care he just wants to fight. The prong collar has helped me a lot to control him....I swear by it. I have been told it is the lazy way to do it, but this was my last step. I tried all the PR training and behaviorists suggestions and they didn't work...so now on to being physical with him because it seems for his charachter he needs to know I'm physically bigger and stronger in order for him to respect me.

Goob as per Duke's reaction - Body language. When he doesn't like the dog he stares directly at them and will lunge once the other dog makes eye contact. His tail is down at first, then when the dog looks his way Duke's tail flies strait up and he lunges while barking or growling. If he doesn't sense a threat from the other dog he will do his best to sniff the ground and avoid the other dog as best he can. At the end of both encounters (bad or good) duke will always shake his whole body...stress reliefe, I believe.

DOC - So sorry to hear about that situation.
I feel the owner should be held responsible. Those dogs should have been kept in a very secure yard and watched if the dog aggression was that bad. I never leave my dog outside un attended EVER.....tooo many things can happen.

posted 03-07-2003 03:30 PM           

You are correct, but the MAJORITY will when given the chance....I'm not trying to say anything bad about your dogs, either, just trying to make sure that novice owners don't EVER forget what kind of power they have in a pit bull...I'm not suggesting fighting either, but I have a gamebred hot headed animal. I hate dogfighting and have done a lot of work to combat it...Goob knows me, and can attest that I am VERY against it.

posted 03-07-2003 09:07 PM           

The lunging while barking/growling sounds like it's defensive, he probably does feel threatened by the other dog staring him down. The ground sniffing is a calming signal, so he's trying to avoid starting conflict with those dogs for some reason? When you come upon another dog, do you tighten the leash, or leave it loose until the last second, when he's about to lunge anyway?

posted 03-10-2003 01:21 PM            

Goob, thanks for the advise on the prong. It's a very controversial training device and was definatley not my first choice...I went to a lot of effort to try and avoid using it; however, I realize for my dog this is the best way to control him. I would not suggest a novice dog owner to use this collar as it does require a specific technique for maximum performance. I didn't know that they broke easily..never heard anyone say anything about that before, but I like to be safer than sorry so I will double it up...thanks!

Regarding the PB that fight to the death....come on people..we all know each dog is unique in personality and each dog is going to repond according to its instincts...some dogs instincts are to kill others are to flee...all depends on the nature of the dog!

posted 03-10-2003 03:39 PM           

My rescue dogs can be seen at this link...they are all rescues except for one, Lady Red. She's my personal dog that was given to me by an x boyfriend....
http://www.imagestation.com/album/?id=4291793197

and my personal dogs are here, with the exception of Cassie, who is a rescue that managed to sneak her pics into this album:
http://www.imagestation.com/album/?id=4291769413

I alos have a 7 week old blue tha tI recently acquired...haven't decided if I'll keep him yet or not, but I'm sure tempted! I'll post the link to his pics later.

posted 03-12-2003 01:16 PM            

I love this breed soooo much

I met a guy yesterday at the pet store with a new Pit Bull cross APBT...she was all blue with a white diamond on her chest...she was sooo cute...never saw a blue in person before...really neat. I talked to him for a while, and it amazed me how little he knew about the breed. I think he was a drug dealer and didn't really care what I had to say, but I made it a point to inform him about not bringing her to a dog park. Weird how people get a dog without knowing squat about the breed they have just taken home, but he did purchase the Bully magazine and IF he reads it...that will help him a lot.

What would one of you do if you saw a possible drug dealer with a new Bully puppy who wasn;t very interested in learning about his lil dog?

posted 03-12-2003 05:29 PM            

Princess, you are lucky to have those contacts.

posted 03-13-2003 01:28 PM         

Here's a few links that might help you get a better idea or find more info...

News story about rotty attack and breed bans: http://www.theglobeandmail.com/servlet/ArticleNews/TPStory/LAC/20030308/FC8BITE/TPFocus/

Info on breed bans, and a contact for BC: http://www.staffordmall.com/bsl-canadabritishcolumbia.htm

posted 03-13-2003 07:36 PM            

Thank you for those links...I've been spending, pretty much, all day making contacts with these people..wether bad or good. Hopefully I can get in there and start helping make a difference. Vancouver is a shamful place. One will be either very welthy or very poor...very little inbetween. I am currently considering a job change to help support the APBT here in Van...got lots to do so will chat in a bit. Thanks again for the links...you kick ass

posted 03-14-2003 01:04 PM         

American Temperment Test Society (notice that APBTs and AmStaffs beat out Goldens and Collies ): http://atts.org/

Real Pit Bull: http://realpitbull.com/

Canadian BSL: http://www.goodpooch.com/BSL/cdnbsl.htm

Pit Bulls on the Web (you also might find some stuff on the "Pet Pit Bull" part of that site): http://www.pitbullsontheweb.com/

American Dog Owners Association (great source for anti-BSL contacts and info): http://www.adoa.org/

Dog Holocaust (very anti-BSL site, and has info on worldwide BSL): http://www.angelfire.com/biz6/dogholocaust/

Dogs At Risk: http://www.dogsatriskusa.org/

More anti-BSL links: http://www.internationalstafford.com/bsl/bsl.html

Washington Animal Foundation: http://www.waf-legislation.org/

The Pit Bull Press (positive PR): http://pitbullpress.com/

No Bull (positive PR): http://www.fortunecity.com/business/bull/1547