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Posted by Topic subject:   Another Pit attack
goob
unregistered
posted 02-21-2003 06:20 PM           Edit/Delete Message
Also, most dogs that are aggressive, and pass through rescue are euthanized because:
1. The rescues don't have the resources to deal with them... they require extra time, money, and work to get them over their problems. Why should rescues spend 6 months trying to fix one dog who has severe behavioral/temperment issues, thus tying up space that several other dogs could be in during that time? Is it really helping the breed (or those other dogs) to do that?
2. The liability is too great. If a rescue adopts out a dog that has shown any aggression whatsoever, and the dog bites someone, they will be sued, and unless another shelter can take on the remaining animals, they will all be euthanized as well.

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shmoopie
Member

Posts: 361
From:Vancouver, BC
Registered: Jan 2003

posted 02-21-2003 06:59 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for shmoopie   Click Here to Email shmoopie     Edit/Delete Message
Goob,
Either which way it is something we have done to create that "fear". A dog is not born fearful. Have you ever met one that was born fearful? I certainly haven't. I have seen puppies be born that were naturally more submissive than the other puppies in the litter. Any puppy that is born fearful of everything has some sort of medical condition and should be euthanized so it does not have to suffer.
I don't know where you are getting your info from but if you read about behavior...this stuff you are talking about has NEVER come up.

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pittypat
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Posts: 11
From:Canada
Registered: Feb 2003

posted 02-21-2003 07:26 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for pittypat     Edit/Delete Message
There was a type of bulldog originally bred to bait bulls, yes. And it was probably very similiar to our pit bulls.

However, the pit bull we know today came later, after the "sport" of bull baiting was outlawed.
---------------------------------------------
"It is believed that this practice of mixing bulldog's and terriers began in the town of Staffordshire England and became known as the Staffordshire Bull and terrier.

Due to the agility and gameness of this new found breed many began to also fight dogs with each other. Soon dog on dog fighting and ratting became so popular that practically all Inns and Pubs were equipped with a fighting pit.

As colonization of America and Canada began these people also brought their dogs. These dogs soon became known by the name of "Pitbull Terriers"
---------------------------------------------

So strictly speaking, the modern day pit bull was indeed bred from bulldogs and terriers to fight. OF course, exact data is not available, due to the shady nature of the breeding and matching. That they were good at many other tasks increased the popularity.

Also, shyness and fearfulness CAN be genetic. A dog can be born that way, and it can happen in any breed. Some dogs who were never abused in any way can be fear aggressive - it is a defect.
Anyone who breeds should know this.

[This message has been edited by pittypat (edited 02-21-2003).]

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dana
unregistered
posted 02-23-2003 04:34 PM           Edit/Delete Message
Anyone who has dealt with dogs and bred a few litters of any breed would know that fearfulness and tendancy to bite has a genetic basis. Dogs who inherit this sort of personality easily become fear biters, while dogs with a normal pit bull personalities won't. An example of a dog with a hair trigger personality would be one like a doberman I once owned--this dog would respond to any threatening stranger with snarling and bared teeth, making her a natural personal protection/guard dog, but one which I had to be very careful with in public.
Most well-bred pit bulls lack the sort of defensive personalities that would make them natural protection or guard dogs. Some can be trained to bite people, but these dogs bite in play, basically. It still can be very dangerous, of course, and sensible people don't train their pit bulls to be human aggressive. I wonder how many of the instances of pit bulls biting children stem from the dog being encouraged to bite in play and then getting carried away?

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PITBULL_PRINCESS1979
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Posts: 414
From:LOUISIANA,USA
Registered: Dec 2002

posted 02-23-2003 05:33 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for PITBULL_PRINCESS1979     Edit/Delete Message
I am sorry if this comment makes anyone mad..But its like this.No dog is born aggressive.Pitbulls were not bred to fight in pit..They were used for bull bait.That is what pitbulls were made for.Not a bulldog like a pitbull,but THE PITBULL.Before you people come in here and act like you know everything you need to read more than one or two books.I have been doing resaerch for years apond years on pitbulls,were they come from ,exactly what breeds were bred to get the pitbull.Alot of you know some thing,but there are quite a few in here that think they know and really don't.i am not going to say anyones name,but you know who you are.You can be mad at this post.Ireally don't care,but if you are going to get into a convorsation you atleast need to know what you are even talking about.

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goob
unregistered
posted 02-23-2003 09:47 PM           Edit/Delete Message
No breed is naturally aggressive? How about Filas? If you talk to any breeder of "working" filas (not just the BYB who's trying to make big bucks peddling rare breeds), they'll tell you that many dogs of that breed have a NATURAL DISLIKE of strangers... and WILL attack one if left to their own devices. It's considered an acceptable temperment for dogs of that breed, and such behavior develops as they mature, whether they have been socialized, chained in the backyard, extensively trained, or whatever. It is determined by GENETICS.

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PITBULL_PRINCESS1979
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Posts: 414
From:LOUISIANA,USA
Registered: Dec 2002

posted 02-24-2003 09:07 AM     Click Here to See the Profile for PITBULL_PRINCESS1979     Edit/Delete Message
Goob,
I do not know about every breed.The only breed I know almost every thing about is the Pitbull.No matter what you or anyone else says,there is NO Dog born mean.Their mother in the first 6 to 8 weeks of their lives teaches them how to servive.
I have never in all my years seen a pitbull That was born mean.I have seen how mean people have made them,but never one born that way.

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pittypat
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Posts: 11
From:Canada
Registered: Feb 2003

posted 02-24-2003 12:15 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for pittypat     Edit/Delete Message
Princess, you keep saying "mean" and "born mean". I don't really know what that means, but that is not what people are talking about.

We are talking about a genetic predisposition to shyness. Naturally, shyness and fear may make a dog fear aggressive, since it feels the need to defend itself. You may have never seen a genetically shy dog, but that does not mean they don't exist.
Fear aggression has nothing to do with being "mean."

Do you see the difference? Instead of getting defensive and insulting people, maybe you should listen and try and understand what is being said.

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PITBULL_PRINCESS1979
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Posts: 414
From:LOUISIANA,USA
Registered: Dec 2002

posted 02-24-2003 01:36 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for PITBULL_PRINCESS1979     Edit/Delete Message
What I ment by being "mean" is spazzing out and bitting someone.I have handled my share of shy dogs,but with proper trainning these dog most of the time make the best dogs.
I do listen to what everyone is saying,and yes I will get defensive,and yes I will speak my mind.I did not bash anyone..Maybe you need to read what I wrote more carefully.I simply said..you need to check you facts before you speak.That is all...If you do not like what I write..I am sorry..I guess,just don't read my posts.

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shmoopie
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From:Vancouver, BC
Registered: Jan 2003

posted 02-24-2003 02:21 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for shmoopie   Click Here to Email shmoopie     Edit/Delete Message
This topic is getting off-topic.
This is a Pit Bull forum....

Also, I don't think Pit Princess is being rude, just informative! Don't take things said here too personally...sometimes things don't get put down the way we mean to say them.

[This message has been edited by shmoopie (edited 02-24-2003).]

[This message has been edited by Auspetian (edited 02-24-2003).]

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Doc Helladay
unregistered
posted 02-25-2003 04:37 AM           Edit/Delete Message
Number 1 Princess knows what she is talking about, for the others all I have seen you do is either talk over her posts or stomp on them, whoever made the comment about her getting rude or whatever the comment was I have not seen that to be true whatsover. Only reason I can see that you find what she has to say is that you think you know more than her....She stands correct completely correct about the breed, and what she knows about them. This type of knowledge comes with yrs of experience that princess has. To see you guys do this is just like people at shows that think their dog is better than the others..well that is all I wanted to say..
BTW princess I can clearly see that any help you will need in regards to this breed obviously will not come from help from people
out of the USA...Im on the west coast...and I will help you with any info you might need. It appears others do not need help and I have not seen in any of their posts what they are doing to help save the breed other than trying to figure out geesh when they take their first breath they might bite...They need to get with the program.!
Doc~ 2003

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PITBULL_PRINCESS1979
Member

Posts: 414
From:LOUISIANA,USA
Registered: Dec 2002

posted 02-25-2003 09:18 AM     Click Here to See the Profile for PITBULL_PRINCESS1979     Edit/Delete Message
Shmoopie and Doc,
I just wanted to say thank you for actually reading my post.You are good people and I have alot of respect for the both of you(as do I also for Russ and a few others here).The Pitbull breed needs more people to help and care about them like you do.I can always use the help on getting any good hype about pitbull.So, if you come across a good storm please send me the link.Every little bit help,as we need all the help and support we can get.I just wanted to say THANK YOU again.You guys have really touched my heart.

Much Love from
Pitbull_Princess and
all of my pit babies

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pittypat
Member

Posts: 11
From:Canada
Registered: Feb 2003

posted 02-25-2003 11:46 AM     Click Here to See the Profile for pittypat     Edit/Delete Message
One last comment/question: Doc Helladay says - "She stands correct completely correct about the breed, and what she knows about them"

ARe you saying she is completely correct when she denies there is such a thing as a genetic predisposition to shyness/fear aggression? I'm sorry, but there is and this is NOT my opinion, but fact.(and a well-known fact.)

And yes, she has been rude - her replies are basically - "I know everything, and the rest of you should read a book."

Obviously, differing opinions and input are not wanted here. Too bad, because we who love this breed really need to stick together.

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shmoopie
Member

Posts: 361
From:Vancouver, BC
Registered: Jan 2003

posted 02-25-2003 12:01 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for shmoopie   Click Here to Email shmoopie     Edit/Delete Message
Yes, pittypat we need to stick together. Every one is different and everyone speaks their mind differently.

I don't think Pit Princess was denying the fear aggression; however, to say any dog is born aggressive is just ignorant. A dog can be born shy or very insecure, but it will always be due to a humans actions that either re enforce those traits or set the dog strait.

What goob is speaking of...I don't know even what his point is....but I also hear what you are saying....maybe you can provide a link to back up yours and goob's theory please. And remember we are talking of the APBT breed...not a other breeds where human aggression was instilled....lets all remember this was never a trait of the original APBT

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PITBULL_PRINCESS1979
Member

Posts: 414
From:LOUISIANA,USA
Registered: Dec 2002

posted 02-25-2003 12:10 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for PITBULL_PRINCESS1979     Edit/Delete Message
Wait one d**mn minute.I have never denied that there was a such thing as shy/fear aggression.Maybe I misfrazed what I am trying to say..so I will put it into simple terms where you can un-der-st-and.All dogs are born with a sense of fear,but it takes something to trigger this.For example,if you have a younge puppy and you stomp your feet 9 out of ten are going to run.How ever this doesn't mean that these dogs are going to freak out everytime this happens...What I am trying to say is NO DOG is geneticly mean.

Pittypat..If you think I am mean and rude now..Just keep up slamming me and I will show you how aggressive this PITBULL B***H can be.I have never called anyone stupid,and I have never been mean to anyone..All I have said was maybe you need to do a little more reading before you speak.I read something new everyday..and that means I learn something new everyday.Why don't you try it.

To those who read my post and get their feelings hurt I am sorry..You have your opinions and I have mine...I will always agree to disagree..Thats how you learn and get new ideas.Sometimes small minds don't see that...

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